Hi, I would much appreciate any ideas on a simple and cheap way to
build a Powerbook based mobile recording setup for 24 channels with mic
preamps and can sync to external word clock. (Can't use Firepod as it
won't take external clock) Thanks. DannyD

Do you want 24 simultaneous recordable tracks with 24 mic pre input
channels?

IMHO simple, cheap, and portable are characteristics that tend to work
against each other...

-Matt

wrote:
Hi, I would much appreciate any ideas on a simple and cheap way to
build a Powerbook based mobile recording setup for 24 channels with mic
preamps and can sync to external word clock. (Can't use Firepod as it
won't take external clock) Thanks. DannyD

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi, I would much appreciate any ideas on a simple and cheap way to
build a Powerbook based mobile recording setup for 24 channels with mic
preamps and can sync to external word clock. (Can't use Firepod as it
won't take external clock) Thanks. DannyD

I dunno...about the cheapest 24i/o w/pres would be three Behringer(I know, I
know) AD 8000 thingies and some type of card bus 3 lightpipe in thing if it
exists/


nah there's way better ideas than that probably.

wrote:
Hi, I would much appreciate any ideas on a simple and cheap way to
build a Powerbook based mobile recording setup for 24 channels with mic
preamps and can sync to external word clock. (Can't use Firepod as it
won't take external clock) Thanks. DannyD

metric halo 2882

wrote:
Hi, I would much appreciate any ideas on a simple and cheap way to
build a Powerbook based mobile recording setup for 24 channels with mic
preamps and can sync to external word clock.

How crummy can you tolerate? And how cheap is cheap?

Mike Rivers wrote:
wrote:
Hi, I would much appreciate any ideas on a simple and cheap way to
build a Powerbook based mobile recording setup for 24 channels with mic
preamps and can sync to external word clock.

How crummy can you tolerate? And how cheap is cheap?

The cheap part is not counting the Powerbook/Macbook.
Crummy - well I'm planning to record at 44.1/24. Not looking for Apogee
quality AtoD certainly.
I was looking at the Firepods until I realized that I couldn't give
them an external word clock (at least my initial investigations
indicate such).
I was delighted at the prospect of getting 24 simultaneous record
tracks for about $1500.
Yes the Metric Halo would be nice but 3x the price...
Thanks all. DannyD

"dannyd" wrote in message
oups.com...

Mike Rivers wrote:
wrote:
Hi, I would much appreciate any ideas on a simple and cheap way to
build a Powerbook based mobile recording setup for 24 channels with mic
preamps and can sync to external word clock.

How crummy can you tolerate? And how cheap is cheap?

The cheap part is not counting the Powerbook/Macbook.
Crummy - well I'm planning to record at 44.1/24. Not looking for Apogee
quality AtoD certainly.
I was looking at the Firepods until I realized that I couldn't give
them an external word clock (at least my initial investigations
indicate such).
I was delighted at the prospect of getting 24 simultaneous record
tracks for about $1500.
Yes the Metric Halo would be nice but 3x the price...
Thanks all. DannyD


I thought you wanted 24 mic pres also? Does that stuff have that?

--


www.andymost.com

matty b. wrote:
Do you want 24 simultaneous recordable tracks with 24 mic pre input
channels?

yes - 24 simultaneous w/ mic pre - I'm trying to avoid having an audio
console - just want a rack and laptop. Thanks.

I thought you wanted 24 mic pres also? Does that stuff have that?
www.andymost.com

Both the Firepod and MH2882 have 8x mic pre built in. DannyD

"dannyd" wrote in message
oups.com...

I thought you wanted 24 mic pres also? Does that stuff have that?
www.andymost.com

Both the Firepod and MH2882 have 8x mic pre built in. DannyD


exactly

well hopefully something will turn up for ya.

dannyd wrote:
The cheap part is not counting the Powerbook/Macbook.
Crummy - well I'm planning to record at 44.1/24. Not looking for Apogee
quality AtoD certainly.
I was looking at the Firepods until I realized that I couldn't give
them an external word clock (at least my initial investigations
indicate such).
I was delighted at the prospect of getting 24 simultaneous record
tracks for about $1500.
Yes the Metric Halo would be nice but 3x the price...
Thanks all. DannyD

Hey DannyD
For 2x the price ($3000) you could get three Motu 896HDs, that will
give you 24 mic pres and you can feed them an external clock. Or slave
two units to one master 896HD internal clock. Only problem is that's 6
rack spaces worth of gear ... how portable is portable?
-Matt

dannyd wrote:

The cheap part is not counting the Powerbook/Macbook.

Understood - you've already made that commitment.

Crummy - well I'm planning to record at 44.1/24. Not looking for Apogee
quality AtoD certainly.
I was looking at the Firepods until I realized that I couldn't give
them an external word clock

The Behringer ADA8000 is as cheap as they come - 8 mic preamps with
digital output in ADAT optical format. I'm not sure if there'a a laptop
interface that will let you connect three ADAT optical sources. Maybe
RME has something, but it won't be cheap. At least the Behringer has
word clock input.

I think that because you want to record 24 tracks, you're out of the
"cheap" range. If you can find a Mackie MDR24/96 cheap (or even a new
HD24) 24-track stand-alone hard disk recorder, you could combine that
with three of the Behringer preamps and leave the Mac at home. It would
be about as portable a package as a laptop computer and several pieces
of interface hardware.

dannyd wrote:

I was looking at the Firepods until I realized that I couldn't give
them an external word clock

Waitacottonpicin minute. I'm pretty sure that I read that Presonus had
a new driver for Windows that would let you stack three Firepods. On a
Mac (the latest Tiger OS) you can use the Aggregate Driver features to
run three of them. I didn't read all the fine print about how to do
this, but you can:

http://www.presonus.com/firepodmultiunit.html

I'm not sure if they sync up internally or maybe you use the S/PDIF
output to sync them. That's an option. So, yeah, check out the Firepod.
It's got to be better audio quality than the Behringer (which gets more
enthusiastic praise for its bang for very few bucks than it does for
high quality mic preamps), and at least Presonus tells you how to set
up three of them for 24-track recording. Good for Presonus - they get
to sell more Firepods that way.

Yes it's true that you can use Aggregate Device to stack Firepods.
But Firepods only let you use one of the 2 or 3 as master clock.
No external clock input. SPDIF inputs are not functional with multiple
chained units.
Looks like it's Metric Halo 2882 or Alesis HD line inputs with extra
console pre amps/direct outputs or go crazy with TDM/PCMCIA and
outboard mic pre (not where I want to be going)...

Actually Matt's suggestion of MOTU 896 would work also.
Thanks everyone! DD

dannyd wrote:
Mike Rivers wrote:
wrote:
Hi, I would much appreciate any ideas on a simple and cheap way to
build a Powerbook based mobile recording setup for 24 channels with mic
preamps and can sync to external word clock.
How crummy can you tolerate? And how cheap is cheap?

The cheap part is not counting the Powerbook/Macbook.
Crummy - well I'm planning to record at 44.1/24. Not looking for Apogee
quality AtoD certainly.
I was looking at the Firepods until I realized that I couldn't give
them an external word clock (at least my initial investigations
indicate such).
I was delighted at the prospect of getting 24 simultaneous record
tracks for about $1500.
Yes the Metric Halo would be nice but 3x the price...
Thanks all. DannyD

You could go for hardware.
I have a Fostex D2424lv that worked great for a 2 hour show.
Those are about $1500 new or less (I got mine for $1100 new)
Half decent preamps are those behringer racks that have 8 per channel
and adat digital.
You may get the whole lot for your budget and the Fostex is a great
machine to have.
I feel safer recording live stuff on this than on a laptop with firewire
interfaces (which I have done as well)

dannyd wrote:
Yes it's true that you can use Aggregate Device to stack Firepods.
But Firepods only let you use one of the 2 or 3 as master clock.
No external clock input.

Do you have something else in your system that requires an external
word clock? That would be the only reason why you'd need it. But shame
on Presonus for not including an input. Testimonials from famous
engineers aside, you really can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear
by using an external word clock.

Do you already have a soundcard???
Why not try pick up a 24 track standalone machine
(mackie,Alesis,Tascam) yeah the Tascam one then just import the
files...
Regards,
Dave

Mike Rivers wrote:
dannyd wrote:
Yes it's true that you can use Aggregate Device to stack Firepods.
But Firepods only let you use one of the 2 or 3 as master clock.
No external clock input.

Do you have something else in your system that requires an external
word clock? That would be the only reason why you'd need it. But shame
on Presonus for not including an input. Testimonials from famous
engineers aside, you really can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear
by using an external word clock.

The word clock requirement is for sync with a video shoot.
(I should have said that in the beginning)
All devices (video and audio) will be fed the same word clock for
sync.
--
No sound card as I'm using Powerbook. I was going for a firewire or
USB2 solution.
--
The Tascam or Alesis Mackie hardware option is starting to look more
appealing now.
No software DAW drama... And yes - just import files into DAW of choice
later.
But 3x Metric Halo 2882 would be pretty slick also (no extra mic pre
boxes).
--
Thanks again to all. DD

wrote in message
oups.com...
The word clock requirement is for sync with a video shoot.
(I should have said that in the beginning)
All devices (video and audio) will be fed the same word clock for
sync.
--
No sound card as I'm using Powerbook. I was going for a firewire or
USB2 solution.
--
The Tascam or Alesis Mackie hardware option is starting to look more
appealing now.
No software DAW drama... And yes - just import files into DAW of choice
later.
But 3x Metric Halo 2882 would be pretty slick also (no extra mic pre
boxes).
--
Thanks again to all. DD

What about the new Apogee Mac interface? Probably over your budget, tho. BSW
has it in their new catalog.

Mikey
Nova Music Productions

audioaesthetic wrote:

dandryden wrote:
Hi, I would much appreciate any ideas on a simple and cheap way to
build a Powerbook based mobile recording setup for 24 channels with mic
preamps and can sync to external word clock. (Can't use Firepod as it
won't take external clock) Thanks. DannyD

metric halo 2882

Those pres are not fully worthy and I wouldn't want to rely on them
unless I was working ony with loud sources and sensitive mics. They are
quite noisy above about 30 dB of gain. There are new boxes from Sonic
Solutions that are built by Metric Halo and that offer the equivalent of
the MH ULN2 preamps in an 8x box. Don't know the model number off the
top of my head, maybe 308. Hit their site for a looksee.

--
ha

dandryden wrote:

Hi, I would much appreciate any ideas on a simple and cheap way to
build a Powerbook based mobile recording setup for 24 channels with mic
preamps and can sync to external word clock. (Can't use Firepod as it
won't take external clock) Thanks. DannyD

Have you taken a look at MOTU's offerings? How about RME?

--
ha

James Perrett wrote:

I wish someone would make a simple laptop interface with just 2 ADAT ins
and 2 ADAT outs for those of us with ADAT convertors already.

I doubt that there are enough people like you to buy such an interface.
If there were, someone would make it. Round up 10,000 of your best
friends and take the idea out to a few manufacturers.

"Mike Rivers" wrote...
James Perrett wrote:

I wish someone would make a simple laptop interface with just 2 ADAT ins
and 2 ADAT outs for those of us with ADAT convertors already.

I doubt that there are enough people like you to buy such an interface.
If there were, someone would make it. Round up 10,000 of your best
friends and take the idea out to a few manufacturers.

With the availability of the 8-chan decoding chip, it isn't
neurosurgery to design a piece of hardware which takes
the ADAT optical in and feeds 4 pairs of audio streams
to the operating system (assuming one can write the proper
driver. This seems like more of a software (OS driver)
issue than a hardware one.

Richard Crowley wrote:

With the availability of the 8-chan decoding chip, it isn't
neurosurgery to design a piece of hardware which takes
the ADAT optical in and feeds 4 pairs of audio streams
to the operating system (assuming one can write the proper
driver. This seems like more of a software (OS driver)
issue than a hardware one.

Oh, it's very much a hardware issue. You have to put it in a box, put
connectors on it, and power it up. That might not cost you very much if
you were building one in your home workshop (just like it doesn't cost
very much to record a CD in your guest room), but if it's going to be a
commercial product, there's a bunch of manufacturing engineering that
has to go into it (assuming you don't want it to cost $1,995) as well
as design, specifications, test, and the all important marketing. But
first they need to be reasonably assured that they can sell enough to
make them cost what it takes to sell enough of them.

Like I said, I don't see that there's much of a market for it. People
who have really nice converters and preamps probably would prefer to
work at a higher sample rate than 48 kHz (or at least would want that
option) which the standard ADAT optical interface doesn't accommodate.
And if you want to use a couple of Behringer ADA8000s as the front end,
you probably don't want to spend more than about another $200 to hook
them up to the computer. Maybe Behringer can do it. Ask them.

vas wrote:

If you can live with 20 (solid) mic pres, RME Fireface800 + 2x RME
Octamic D get you 36 inputs for under $4K. RME Cardbus+Digiface + 3x
Octamic D = 24 mic pres/26 inputs @ about $4300-$4500.

I realize it's a long way from the top of the thread, but the original
poster was after a "simple and cheap" system with a Powerbook. But it's
going to be hard to get out for much less than $3K. A couple of Mackie
Onyx mixers with Firewire cards would give him the inputs as well as a
way to monitor (more important than most people realize when getting
started in remote work) but that can be a pretty big armful to carry.

I'd leave the Powerbook at home, buy a 24-track hard disk recorder (a
used Mackie MDR24/96 for $800 or less, or a brand new Alesis HD24 for
$1500) and whatever mic preamps he can afford, from the Behringer on
up. Transfer the files from the recorder to the Powerbook for mixing.
Pray that it's working since you don't have a way to monitor. High
reliability and minimum amount of haywire.

James Perrett wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 19:18:34 +0100, wrote:

Hi, I would much appreciate any ideas on a simple and cheap way to
build a Powerbook based mobile recording setup for 24 channels with mic
preamps and can sync to external word clock. (Can't use Firepod as it
won't take external clock) Thanks. DannyD



I notice that both Alesis and Focusrite have units with 8 mic channels
and 2 ADAT inputs. One of those combined with a couple of Behringer
ADA8000's looks like one of the more cost effective solutions.

I wish someone would make a simple laptop interface with just 2 ADAT
ins and 2 ADAT outs for those of us with ADAT convertors already. The
ADAT connections would also solve the ground loop problems that often
plague modern laptops.

Cheers

James.

Is the Hammerfall DigiFace still available? It's bulky, but
it's got 3 ADAT in/out and is PCMCIA... I have not used
one...

---
Les Cargill

Mike Rivers wrote:
vas wrote:

If you can live with 20 (solid) mic pres, RME Fireface800 + 2x RME
Octamic D get you 36 inputs for under $4K. RME Cardbus+Digiface + 3x
Octamic D = 24 mic pres/26 inputs @ about $4300-$4500.

I realize it's a long way from the top of the thread, but the original
poster was after a "simple and cheap" system with a Powerbook. But it's
going to be hard to get out for much less than $3K. A couple of Mackie
Onyx mixers with Firewire cards would give him the inputs as well as a
way to monitor (more important than most people realize when getting
started in remote work) but that can be a pretty big armful to carry.

I'd leave the Powerbook at home, buy a 24-track hard disk recorder (a
used Mackie MDR24/96 for $800 or less, or a brand new Alesis HD24 for
$1500) and whatever mic preamps he can afford, from the Behringer on
up. Transfer the files from the recorder to the Powerbook for mixing.
Pray that it's working since you don't have a way to monitor. High
reliability and minimum amount of haywire.

I dunno...why buy a standalone HD recorder without preamps (or even
converters in some cases) when preamps/ADCs are what he's lacking? I
think it's a redundant idea. Solid multichannel interface + additional
pres/ADCs are the way to go. Money spent on the recorder is money NOT
spent on better pres/ADCs. Like I said: 2x used Presonus Digimax + RME
fireface 800. $2500-3000 for a 4RU, very usable 26 channel rig, with
monitoring. Dunno about you, _I_ think that's pretty
cheap...seriously, 26 channels of micpre, ADC, and interface, for $3K?
Millennia/Prism it is not, but you could make FINE location recordings
with something like that. If you wanted to be REALLY cheap, RME
cardbus/digiface + 3x Behringer ADA8000. $1600...even less if you
managed to find this stuff used...but the micpres on those things suck;
to my ears, anyway.

The OP should put his money toward the best multichannel interface he
can afford, 'cause that's what's going to make or break the rig...then
add pres and ADCs as money allows. Without getting silly with the
Magma/TDM setups (in which case, just bring the damn G5 as well and
shut up about "low cost"), there are really only three serious choices:
Metric Halo, upper end MOTU and RME. For the number of channels in one
box, RME is it. How come Lynx hasn't made anything portable (again,
not requiring the Magma ridiculousness)? I bet that'd be a hit. 2
Onyxes? Well, yeah a tad cheaper (maybe...then again I don't know
because the FW cards are not standard on the Onyx), but way bulkier,
prolly not as good, and way less reliable, I would wager. RME's
drivers are second to none, MOTU and Metric Halo are also really good
(for mac that is; MOTU on PC is a disaster most of the time). Also,
WRT the standalone recorder, there'd be no transfers, etc...the
editing/mixing system could be the same one, which is also extremely
convenient. Reliability...well, yeah that COULD be a problem if you're
not careful with the system. Get the rig up and running, do a few
gigs, then get the standalone thing for backup purposes. The other
thing with the portability: perhaps the powerbook and the
interface/micpres/ADCs can be squeezed into 3-6RU, but what is the OP
going to do about 24 mics/DIs/snakes/cables/MIC STANDS/etc? That's not
so easily miniaturized. Is he planning to patch into someone else's
multichannel split?

Peace,
--Vas

vas wrote:

I dunno...why buy a standalone HD recorder without preamps (or even
converters in some cases) when preamps/ADCs are what he's lacking?

Because he's missing more than preamps and A/D converters. He's missing
the 24-channel interface between the outside world and the computer.
This is built in to the stand-alone recorder. And the reason to buy a
stand-alone recorder WITHOUT mic preamps is because I'm not sure
there's one being made that has 24 of them. And all of them are
"workstations" rather than just recorders, so they're large and not
very portable.

I think it's a redundant idea. Solid multichannel interface + additional
pres/ADCs are the way to go.

Yes, but such an interface doesn't exist, certainly not at low cost,
and I predict that it won't be, because there isn't a sufficiently
large market. Can you prove me wrong?

Money spent on the recorder is money NOT
spent on better pres/ADCs.

But it's money spent on getting the job done. If there's no suitablly
sized and priced interface to connect those preamps and A/D converters
to the computer, then he's not recording anything. Sometimes you have
to accept what you can get rather than what you'd like, just to do the
job. Of course if there's no job, you can afford to wait and wish.

Like I said: 2x used Presonus Digimax + RME
fireface 800. $2500-3000 for a 4RU, very usable 26 channel rig, with
monitoring.

Can you elaborate on this? I don't feel like researching all of that
stuff. I know that the Digimax has 8 mic inputs and an ADAT output.
What's the input setup on the Fireface 800? And can you get a used one
when you want one? And is $3,000 a suitable price for the original
poster? And how do you monitor? Does the RME have a DSP mixer that
accommodates all the inputs? And is it quick and easy to use?

Dunno about you, _I_ think that's pretty
cheap...seriously, 26 channels of micpre, ADC, and interface, for $3K?

I agree, but that's of course assuming that the computer and DAW
software is free. For $800 you can get a used Mackie MDR24/96, for a
few cents over $600, you can get three Behringer ADA8000s, and you're
ready to go to work and you don't have to configure anything or worry
about crashing.

If you wanted to be REALLY cheap, RME
cardbus/digiface + 3x Behringer ADA8000.

Does that accommodate 24 inputs? I once looked into RME Cardbus
interfaces and about all I could find was something that would handle 8
inputs.

The OP should put his money toward the best multichannel interface he
can afford, 'cause that's what's going to make or break the rig...then
add pres and ADCs as money allows.

If it's an interface with digital inputs, who cares about "best" other
than that it has a good driver? It doesn't have any sound. If you're
buying an interface that has analog inputs, then you're buying the A/D
converters and (if it has mic inputs) the mic preamps. So you have to
consider the whole system and what, and how much, is in each box.

. . . because the FW cards are not standard on the Onyx)

What do you mean by this - that the Firewire card is an extra cost
option (correct - $400 if you don't find a deal) or that there's
something about the Firewire data interface that isn't "standard?"

but way bulkier,
prolly not as good, and way less reliable, I would wager.

Certainly reiiable. Plus you have a mixer. Perhaps a mixer is necessary
anyway for doing live sound, or at least providing headphone feeds for
the musicians. Using the same mixer for PA and as the recording
interface also eliminates the need for a mic splitter or some other way
of sharing microphones.

Bottom line is that we really don't know just what the original poster
wants to do, and just how much he's able to spend. That can focus the
direction. Right now we're just suggesting possbilities.

Mike Rivers wrote:
Bottom line is that we really don't know just what the original poster
wants to do, and just how much he's able to spend. That can focus the
direction. Right now we're just suggesting possbilities.

Well, I for one will suggest that you're headed in a better direction
suggesting a Hard Disc recorder and some type of front end rather than
the a congolmeration of units to get it done.

A mixer for $1500 is a darn solid mixer, which then gives you
tremendous options... pre's, eq's, sub mixes, etc. A hard disc
recorder will be incredibly stable. The import process will be easy,
and mixing needs MUCH less raw power than recording.

Of course, I USE an Alesis HD24 on a daily basis, sometimes portably,
and it works fantastic... much more trustworthy than a laptop running
at its maximum capabilities.

Corey

Mike Rivers wrote:
vas wrote:

I dunno...why buy a standalone HD recorder without preamps (or even
converters in some cases) when preamps/ADCs are what he's lacking?

Because he's missing more than preamps and A/D converters. He's missing
the 24-channel interface between the outside world and the computer.
This is built in to the stand-alone recorder. And the reason to buy a
stand-alone recorder WITHOUT mic preamps is because I'm not sure
there's one being made that has 24 of them. And all of them are
"workstations" rather than just recorders, so they're large and not
very portable.

My point was: why spend money on things he already has vs. things he
doesn't? Yes, I realize that the interface is built into the HD
recorder and that he didn't already have one for the laptop. I said it
a couple of times in my post. I wasn't suggesting that there are
recorders with 24 pres built in, again, my only point was that the
fidelity of his recordings is limited by (after music, room and mics)
mic preamps and converters. The more money he can spend on that, the
better.


I think it's a redundant idea. Solid multichannel interface + additional
pres/ADCs are the way to go.

Yes, but such an interface doesn't exist, certainly not at low cost,
and I predict that it won't be, because there isn't a sufficiently
large market. Can you prove me wrong?

I can't prove a damn thing and I never set out to do so anyway. My
suggestions are merely that - suggestions, based on experience and my
idea of what the future may hold. I respect yours, but I disagree
(slightly and only in a few places).

Low cost? I don't know exactly what "low cost" is, RME Cardbus +
Digiface = 26 simultaneous digital I/O (3x ADAT + SPDIF; also 2xMIDI,
WC, ADAT sync and headphone/line out on its own bus), @ around $950
new. Cheaper used, if you can find it. Some other poster said it's
bulky...it's a whopping half rack space @ 1RU. How much smaller do you
want?

http://www.rme-audio.com/english/hdsp/digifa.htm for more info.

RME fireface 800: 18 digital I/O (2x ADAT, SPDIF), 10 Analog In (4 with
mic pres), 8 Analog Out. Everything can be used simultanesously. I
think it costs something like $1450. It has other features and more
inputs, but I don't remember everything...here's the link:

http://www.rme-audio.com/english/firewire/ff800.htm

Money-wise, it's not M-Audio prices, but for some of the best drivers
and support on the planet, and the size it's pretty damn good.


Money spent on the recorder is money NOT
spent on better pres/ADCs.

But it's money spent on getting the job done. If there's no suitablly
sized and priced interface to connect those preamps and A/D converters
to the computer, then he's not recording anything. Sometimes you have
to accept what you can get rather than what you'd like, just to do the
job. Of course if there's no job, you can afford to wait and wish.

I agree...I didn't feel a terrible sense of urgency from the OP though
and it seemed like he had a _little_ budget to play with.


Like I said: 2x used Presonus Digimax + RME
fireface 800. $2500-3000 for a 4RU, very usable 26 channel rig, with
monitoring.

Can you elaborate on this? I don't feel like researching all of that
stuff. I know that the Digimax has 8 mic inputs and an ADAT output.
What's the input setup on the Fireface 800? And can you get a used one
when you want one? And is $3,000 a suitable price for the original
poster? And how do you monitor? Does the RME have a DSP mixer that
accommodates all the inputs? And is it quick and easy to use?

I expounded on the RME units above...The Digimax (in its many
incarnations) has, like you said, 8 Mic pres and an ADAT out. The
FF800 has 2 ADAT ins, the Digiface has 3. You MIGHT be able to get a
used one and it won't be cheap even used. People don't want to let
these go. Dunno if $3K is OK with the OP. Monitoring is easy, DSP on
the FF800, to the point where it can function standalone, headphone out
on a separate bus. The DSP mixer takes a little getting used to...it's
not something I'd want to jump on in the middle of a gig but once you
get it, it's a piece of cake.


Dunno about you, _I_ think that's pretty
cheap...seriously, 26 channels of micpre, ADC, and interface, for $3K?

I agree, but that's of course assuming that the computer and DAW
software is free. For $800 you can get a used Mackie MDR24/96, for a
few cents over $600, you can get three Behringer ADA8000s, and you're
ready to go to work and you don't have to configure anything or worry
about crashing.

Well...that's the crux of the issue. He's going to need Micpre/ADC
boxes regardless of whether he uses the computer or the HD recorder. I
think we can agree that ADA8000 is the bottom of the pack, the
Focusrite/Presonus/RME units are the middle of the pack and then you
get to the grace design/millennia/prism/apogee etc etc etc. Which
micpre/ADCs the OP gets is entirely dependent on his budget leftovers.
His choice is between a good interface and a standalone HD recorder. I
say buy the interface first, THEN get the HD recorder for backup. You
say do the opposite. That's cool.


If you wanted to be REALLY cheap, RME
cardbus/digiface + 3x Behringer ADA8000.

Does that accommodate 24 inputs? I once looked into RME Cardbus
interfaces and about all I could find was something that would handle 8
inputs.

Yep. Look a few paragraphs up for the link. You saw the Multiface -
also a good interface, but only 18 channels.


The OP should put his money toward the best multichannel interface he
can afford, 'cause that's what's going to make or break the rig...then
add pres and ADCs as money allows.

If it's an interface with digital inputs, who cares about "best" other
than that it has a good driver? It doesn't have any sound. If you're
buying an interface that has analog inputs, then you're buying the A/D
converters and (if it has mic inputs) the mic preamps. So you have to
consider the whole system and what, and how much, is in each box.

Well, that's what I meant. "Best" in the sense of driver support and
I/O flexibility.


. . . because the FW cards are not standard on the Onyx)

What do you mean by this - that the Firewire card is an extra cost
option (correct - $400 if you don't find a deal) or that there's
something about the Firewire data interface that isn't "standard?"


The former - you have to pay extra for the cards.

but way bulkier,
prolly not as good, and way less reliable, I would wager.

Certainly reiiable. Plus you have a mixer. Perhaps a mixer is necessary
anyway for doing live sound, or at least providing headphone feeds for
the musicians. Using the same mixer for PA and as the recording
interface also eliminates the need for a mic splitter or some other way
of sharing microphones.

Those drivers were a bit shaky at first, no? I don't really know, and
I'm sure it'll only get better, but I've never had a less troubled
experience with ANY gear than I have with RME products. I agree with
everything else in your statement...just thought the OP's focus to be
on the recording end of things.


Bottom line is that we really don't know just what the original poster
wants to do, and just how much he's able to spend. That can focus the
direction. Right now we're just suggesting possbilities.

Agreed.

Peace,
--Vas

vas wrote:

My point was: why spend money on things he already has vs. things he
doesn't?

Because what he needs in order to use what he already has isn't
available. So he has to buy something else. He might as well buy
something that will make the job easier. If he has surplus, he can sell
it or keep it for another project.

All I see are expensive solutions, and I'm suggesting a cheaper and
simpler one.

my only point was that the
fidelity of his recordings is limited by (after music, room and mics)
mic preamps and converters.

You have to decide where to compromise unless you have an unlimited
budget.

The more money he can spend on that, the better.

Yeah, for the manufacturers. He needs to figure out how good his gear
needs to be and buy accordingly. If he just wants "professional sound
quality" then he'll pay a lot more than if he chooses his gear wisely.

Low cost? I don't know exactly what "low cost" is, RME Cardbus +
Digiface = 26 simultaneous digital I/O (3x ADAT + SPDIF; also 2xMIDI,
WC, ADAT sync and headphone/line out on its own bus), @ around $950

That's not bad. I thought someone (maybe you) was talking about $3500.

I think we can agree that ADA8000 is the bottom of the pack, the
Focusrite/Presonus/RME units are the middle of the pack and then you
get to the grace design/millennia/prism/apogee etc etc etc. Which
micpre/ADCs the OP gets is entirely dependent on his budget leftovers.

Mic preamps shouldn't be the leftovers since they're the first thing
the mic signal hits. If you compromise there, you compromise
everything. It's easier to buy a bad sounding or inadequate mic preamp
than it is to buy a bad sounding ADAT-computer interface.

Well, that's what I meant. "Best" in the sense of driver support and
I/O flexibility.

You don't need great driver support, you only need a driver that works
with your interface on your computer. And as far as I/O flexibility is
concerned, we're pretty much only looking at ADAT optical at 48 kHz.
That's not hard to do. If there's one S/PDIF input, is that worth
buying a more expernsive interface for? I dunno. I probably wouldn't
bother with it unless I had an application in mind for it.

Those drivers were a bit shaky at first, no?

The driver for the mixer option card seemed to work well right from the
start. There hasn't been an update since it was released and people
aren't screaming (except for the few who are too dumb to quit and would
rather scream). CEntrance has an aftermarket driver almost ready to
hatch that will allow you to combine the Mackie with other Firewire
devices on a PC. You can already do that on a Mac. The Mackie 400F has
had some driver issues. But that's a whole different animal.

I don't mean to knock RME. It's nice stuff when you can afford it, and
sometimes it's the only solution, but there may be some less expensive,
and more practical approaches.

wrote:
Hi, I would much appreciate any ideas on a simple and cheap way to
build a Powerbook based mobile recording setup for 24 channels with mic
preamps and can sync to external word clock. (Can't use Firepod as it
won't take external clock) Thanks. DannyD

I use a Soundcraft Delta 200 16x4x2 console. It's about 30 lbs and is
about 2 1/2 feet wide. I feed that into an Alesis HD24XR. I bring
either a rack of pre's or just a tweaked up Yamaha MLA-7 8 channel mic
pre. The remander 16 preamps are the Soundcraft. I feed the HD24XR in
the insert loop to allow monitoring. I have an addition 8 channels for
monitoring in the 4 group modules. The whole rig sits on 2 bar stools.
No PC's live for me, can't afford the crashes. I paid $550 for the
console and $1900 for the HD24XR. Add the mic stands, quality mics,
etc. and that can add up unless you buy used.

This rig works.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[guygampell]

SADIE LRX2 would be just the job.

It sits under your laptop connected via USB2.0, the laptop runs the
SADiE software, but all the audio i/o and DSP runs in the LRX. it
records to any drive connected to the laptop, a nice large firewire or
USB2 drive would do thebusiness

It mirror records, so can record to 2 drives simultaneously.

It records up to 48 tracks or 24 bit audio, or 32 tracks if running at
96Khz sample rate.

It has built in mic pre-amps as an option (16 channels per card, max 3
cards, 48 channels).

You can fit a MADI card to it to connect it to a professional console
for mixing down,

need I go on?

Its the donkeys bits

http://www.sadie.com/products/prod_lrx2.html

Good luck


wrote:
Hi, I would much appreciate any ideas on a simple and cheap way to
build a Powerbook based mobile recording setup for 24 channels with mic
preamps and can sync to external word clock. (Can't use Firepod as it
won't take external clock) Thanks. DannyD

[guygampell]

SADIE LRX2 would be just the job.

It sits under your laptop connected via USB2.0, the laptop runs the
SADiE software, but all the audio i/o and DSP runs in the LRX. it
records to any drive connected to the laptop, a nice large firewire or
USB2 drive would do thebusiness

It mirror records, so can record to 2 drives simultaneously.

It records up to 48 tracks or 24 bit audio, or 32 tracks if running at
96Khz sample rate.

It has built in mic pre-amps as an option (16 channels per card, max 3
cards, 48 channels).

You can fit a MADI card to it to connect it to a professional console
for mixing down,

need I go on?

Its the donkeys bits

http://www.sadie.com/products/prod_lrx2.html

Good luck


wrote:
Hi, I would much appreciate any ideas on a simple and cheap way to
build a Powerbook based mobile recording setup for 24 channels with mic
preamps and can sync to external word clock. (Can't use Firepod as it
won't take external clock) Thanks. DannyD

[guygampell]

SADIE LRX2 would be just the job.

It sits under your laptop connected via USB2.0, the laptop runs the
SADiE software, but all the audio i/o and DSP runs in the LRX. it
records to any drive connected to the laptop, a nice large firewire or
USB2 drive would do thebusiness

It mirror records, so can record to 2 drives simultaneously.

It records up to 48 tracks or 24 bit audio, or 32 tracks if running at
96Khz sample rate.

It has built in mic pre-amps as an option (16 channels per card, max 3
cards, 48 channels).

You can fit a MADI card to it to connect it to a professional console
for mixing down,

need I go on?

Its the donkeys bits

http://www.sadie.com/products/prod_lrx2.html

Good luck


wrote:
Hi, I would much appreciate any ideas on a simple and cheap way to
build a Powerbook based mobile recording setup for 24 channels with mic
preamps and can sync to external word clock. (Can't use Firepod as it
won't take external clock) Thanks. DannyD

[Frank Stearns]

"guygampell" writes:

SADIE LRX2 would be just the job.

It sits under your laptop connected via USB2.0, the laptop runs the
SADiE software, but all the audio i/o and DSP runs in the LRX. it
records to any drive connected to the laptop, a nice large firewire or
USB2 drive would do thebusiness

It mirror records, so can record to 2 drives simultaneously.

It records up to 48 tracks or 24 bit audio, or 32 tracks if running at
96Khz sample rate.

It has built in mic pre-amps as an option (16 channels per card, max 3
cards, 48 channels).

You can fit a MADI card to it to connect it to a professional console
for mixing down,

need I go on?

It does look good, but I've not had replies to two voice messages left
about this system with Sadie USA (Nashville area).

This is not a good sign.

Has anyone had any dealings with this office? Are they pretty good and I
just had bad luck, or are they flaky?

Frank Stearns
Mobile Audio
--