Just purchased new 2004 car that comes with Infinity stereo speakers.
Don't know if its true but I'm told if I were to pop the speaker off,
I'd find it's a JBL as is the stereo. It's this car make's top of the
line stereo they offer, yet it's horrible. It has one of those equalizer
where you choose Rock, Classic, Jazz and the only setting that get's any
kind of passable sound is to use Rock for all music genres. If you don't
use the equalizer setting, forget it - it fades into the background.
There's not much separation of sound, it's flat,a lesser quality of
sound than the standard stereo which came with my 2001Honda Accord EXLV6
which this new car replaced. It's probably obvious that I'm not an
audiophile, but I know what I like to hear, and this stereo is just flat
and lifeless.

I've asked some opinions of other people, some suggest buying a new head
unit before investing in speakers; while one other person said this:
......replaced car speakers with two Alpine 3-way 6x9 speakers. The
change exceeded my expectations -the bass and clarity was astounding!

I listen mostly to FM radio, but sometimes CD's; FM classical, AM radio
standards (Frank Sinatra, et al), FM top pop, R&B. I would appreciate
your opinions on speakers vs new head unit, and what brands/models to
purchase. I'm clueless and would rather not rely on opinion of a
salesman. I'm in southern Calif, specifically southern Orange County,
would have someone else do installation, so recommendations for place to
buy would also be appreciated.

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Robin wrote:

Just purchased new 2004 car that comes with Infinity stereo speakers.
Don't know if its true but I'm told if I were to pop the speaker off,
I'd find it's a JBL as is the stereo. It's this car make's top of the
line stereo they offer, yet it's horrible. It has one of those equalizer
where you choose Rock, Classic, Jazz and the only setting that get's any
kind of passable sound is to use Rock for all music genres. If you don't
use the equalizer setting, forget it - it fades into the background.
There's not much separation of sound, it's flat,a lesser quality of
sound than the standard stereo which came with my 2001Honda Accord EXLV6
which this new car replaced. It's probably obvious that I'm not an
audiophile, but I know what I like to hear, and this stereo is just flat
and lifeless.

I've asked some opinions of other people, some suggest buying a new head
unit before investing in speakers; while one other person said this:
.....replaced car speakers with two Alpine 3-way 6x9 speakers. The
change exceeded my expectations -the bass and clarity was astounding!

I listen mostly to FM radio, but sometimes CD's; FM classical, AM radio
standards (Frank Sinatra, et al), FM top pop, R&B. I would appreciate
your opinions on speakers vs new head unit, and what brands/models to
purchase. I'm clueless and would rather not rely on opinion of a
salesman. I'm in southern Calif, specifically southern Orange County,
would have someone else do installation, so recommendations for place to
buy would also be appreciated.

--
Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4

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I have had very good results with Clarion automotive speakers. New speakers
will probably make a larger difference than a new head unit, but be sure
that your car dosen't have a remote amplifier concealed somwhere. I am no
expert on car audio, but I do know that for GM cars, the head unit is
generally designed to work into 10 ohm speakers, and most replacement
speakers are 4 ohms, so it's not a bad idea to replace both the head unit
and speakers.

I used two triaxial 6x9" Clarions on the rear deck, and two plates which
each contain a ~4" woofer, and a dome tweeter to replace the stock 4x6's in
the doors. I replaced my Delco head unit with a Blaupunkt, and while the end
result is not in the same league as the Tannoy's I use at home, it's at
least pleasurable to listen to, and 100 times better than the stock system.

Robin wrote:


Just purchased new 2004 car that comes with Infinity stereo speakers.
Don't know if its true but I'm told if I were to pop the speaker off,
I'd find it's a JBL as is the stereo. It's this car make's top of the
line stereo they offer, yet it's horrible. It has one of those equalizer
where you choose Rock, Classic, Jazz and the only setting that get's any
kind of passable sound is to use Rock for all music genres. If you don't
use the equalizer setting, forget it - it fades into the background.
There's not much separation of sound, it's flat,a lesser quality of
sound than the standard stereo which came with my 2001Honda Accord EXLV6
which this new car replaced. It's probably obvious that I'm not an
audiophile, but I know what I like to hear, and this stereo is just flat
and lifeless.

I've asked some opinions of other people, some suggest buying a new head
unit before investing in speakers; while one other person said this:
.....replaced car speakers with two Alpine 3-way 6x9 speakers. The
change exceeded my expectations -the bass and clarity was astounding!

I listen mostly to FM radio, but sometimes CD's; FM classical, AM radio
standards (Frank Sinatra, et al), FM top pop, R&B. I would appreciate
your opinions on speakers vs new head unit, and what brands/models to
purchase. I'm clueless and would rather not rely on opinion of a
salesman. I'm in southern Calif, specifically southern Orange County,
would have someone else do installation, so recommendations for place to
buy would also be appreciated.

--
Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4

--
Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4








Having gone through a number of permutations involving "factory-installed
systems" and various after-market components, I can easily identify with your
frustrations. What follows below, obviously, reflects my own personal opinions
based on about 20 years of trying various combinations.

I have found that, as with home systems, the choice of speakers is critical.
Much of this will, of course, depend on both your personal tastes and your
budget, since after-market speakers vary considerably in price. Relative to
purchase of a head unit, or indash player, I would rate the choice of speakers
much more important.

After extensive auditioning a number of years ago (and good speakers should
last a long time IME), I settled on MB Quart speakers, but also had very
favorable impressions of models from KEF, and less favorable impressions of
several other brands (Pioneer, Sony). Just as important as selection of a
brand that suits you, however, is having them installed in a way that
hopefully, will optimize imaging, given the limitations of a car's environment.
Since I have component sets consisting of 1.25" tweeters and 6.5"
midrage/woofers (with an external crossover between them), the tweeters in my
car are mounted relatively high up and forward in the doors and the larger
speakers, just a little bit lower. This arrangement seems to work well in a
large car, and the imaging is excellent. (Note: I had the installation done by
an experienced dealer who handles IASCA-type competitions and therefore knew
what he was doing - a very important consideration). Find a dealer with a lot
of experience in installations, and - I would tend to avoid installers working
in places like Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. My final piece of advice would be
to consider, if your budget permits, having a separate head unit and power
amplifier. I found, that when I went to this arrangement, from an earlier
arrangement in which I had a more simple all-in-one indash unit, the gains in
dynamics, and of course, power handling were considerable.

Just as a point of reference, my present system, which evolved over a period of
years, includes:

Head Unit: Nakamichi TD-1200 (Mobile Dragon)

Power Amplifier: Audio Art 4-channel power amplifier (35 watts/channel)

Front Speakers: MB Quart 2-way component tweeter/woofer combinations with
external crossovers

Back Speakers: MB Quart 2-way coaxials with external crossovers mounted in
rear decks.

Wiring - mostly done with Monster Cable.


Good luck in auditioning products. Take your time, select the speakers first
(IMHO), and when ready for installation, get an experienced shop to do the
work.



Bruce J. Richman

Robin wrote:

Just purchased new 2004 car that comes with Infinity stereo speakers.
Don't know if its true but I'm told if I were to pop the speaker off,
I'd find it's a JBL as is the stereo. It's this car make's top of the
line stereo they offer, yet it's horrible.

No, it's infinity. But Infinity(speaker brand, not that car) owns
JBL, so...

Of the factory stereos, the Infinity are by far the best out there.

What exactly is the problem? My guess is lack of bass, which can be
solved by a small subwoofer. IME, they certainly don't lack high-end
response.

It has one of those equalizer
where you choose Rock, Classic, Jazz and the only setting that get's any
kind of passable sound is to use Rock for all music genres. If you don't
use the equalizer setting, forget it - it fades into the background.

Ah - the speakers are likely fine, then - it's the brain dead POS
factory stereo. A good Kenwood replacement would likely solve
the problem - and play MP3 cds as well. I'd do this first and
then worry about the factory speakers.

There's not much separation of sound, it's flat,a lesser quality of
sound than the standard stereo which came with my 2001Honda Accord EXLV6
which this new car replaced. It's probably obvious that I'm not an
audiophile, but I know what I like to hear, and this stereo is just flat
and lifeless.

Yep - a poor head unit/amplifier will do that. It's really not the
speakers if they are made by Infinity, as they are comparable to
aftermarket Kenwood or simmilar speakers that you see in all of the
various car audio stores. Alpine are simmilar as well.

Go to Al and Ed's Auto Sound(local So. Cal. Chain)Alpine, Kenwood,
and Infinity account for 75% or more of the speakers they sell - and
thee are the same ones in your car. Note how much better they sound
in the store. Same speakers. That leaves your amplifier and of course,
background noise, which will sap low frequency response like a sponge.

A sub fixes that instantly.

I've asked some opinions of other people, some suggest buying a new head
unit before investing in speakers; while one other person said this:
.....replaced car speakers with two Alpine 3-way 6x9 speakers. The
change exceeded my expectations -the bass and clarity was astounding!

Ah - this gets back to my original observation - the bass.

1: Replace head unit. Kenwood and Alpine make decent radios.

2: Add a subwoofer if necessarry. It need not even be a large sub,
or even lound - just something for low frequency blending/reinforcement.

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
link.net

Robin wrote:

Just purchased new 2004 car that comes with Infinity stereo speakers.
Don't know if its true but I'm told if I were to pop the speaker off,
I'd find it's a JBL as is the stereo. It's this car make's top of
the line stereo they offer, yet it's horrible.

No, it's infinity. But Infinity(speaker brand, not that car) owns
JBL, so...

Not quite. Harman owns both JBL & Infinity (and a ton of other brands)..
Infinity and JBL car audio speaker drivers may or may not be made in the
same Harman plant, no matter how the system is branded. Ditto for Levinson.

Arny Krueger wrote:

Not quite. Harman owns both JBL & Infinity (and a ton of other brands)..
Infinity and JBL car audio speaker drivers may or may not be made in the
same Harman plant, no matter how the system is branded. Ditto for Levinson.

Ah - my bad. But they are all very simmilar. The Infinity car speakers
are the premium brand, though - much better IME than the JBL models.

They certainly sound better than the Alpine and Kenwoods from what
I have heard - but usually are too pricey for my budget - so I
usually "settle" for the Kenwoods - which sound 80% as good.

It *might* be that the goofballs at the factory put a normal
factory stereo that is meant to drive 8 or 10 ohm stock
speakers in with a set of 4 or 6 ohm Infinitys. A gross impedance
mismatch would create exactly the problem you are experiencing -
flabby, dull sound no matter what you do. I had a GM years ago
that had that problem - so I had to search a junkyard for stock
10 ohm 6*9s for the rear.($20 IIRC)

You see - they put in the stereo first sometimes and sometimes
the speakers first - then slap the other unit in, so if you get
a "upgrade" package, sometimes they weren't really tested/mated
to work well together.

I bet that a new stereo capable of driving all of the speakers
at 4 ohms will fix everything.

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
link.net
Arny Krueger wrote:

Not quite. Harman owns both JBL & Infinity (and a ton of other
brands).. Infinity and JBL car audio speaker drivers may or may not
be made in the same Harman plant, no matter how the system is
branded. Ditto for Levinson.

Ah - my bad. But they are all very similar. The Infinity car
speakers are the premium brand, though - much better IME than the JBL
models.

They come out of the same factories and are made to spec per the
auto-company's engineering department. This means that if the auto-company
engineer who is in charge of the JBL-branded system is more skillful and
demanding than some other auto-company engineer who is in charge of a
Levinson or Infinity-branded system, he gets the better drivers, and the
better sound.


There is also a "voicing" step where parametric equalizers in the
electronics packages are tuned by auto-company engineers. This can have a
rather profound effect on the sound quality of the automotive system.

This contrasts with Bose systems which are almost entirely under the control
of Bose. If it is Bose-branded, all relevant sound quality choices have been
made by Bose staff. In the OEM car sound business, there is Bose and there
is everybody else. Everybody else sells pieces. Bose sells systems as they
are installed.

The standard final measures of OEM audio system sound quality are the E.H.
Power's customer satisfaction reports which are provided to the car
companies, for a price of course. They are highly distilled - just tables of
numbers, but they make very interesting reading. They show who is having
problems with catalytic converters or car radios. In some car companies
engineering-department staff and management professional progress are
largely pegged to Powers' reports. The results would surprise many.

They certainly sound better than the Alpine and Kenwoods from what
I have heard - but usually are too pricey for my budget - so I
usually "settle" for the Kenwoods - which sound 80% as good.

Under the covers, the electronics may well be made by Alpine. AFAIK Kenwood
is not pursuing OEM business.

It *might* be that the goofballs at the factory put a normal
factory stereo that is meant to drive 8 or 10 ohm stock
speakers in with a set of 4 or 6 ohm Infinitys.

Highly unlikely. OEM drivers are almost always 4 ohms or below because
switching power supplies are for all intents and purposes, no-nos.

A gross impedance
mismatch would create exactly the problem you are experiencing -
flabby, dull sound no matter what you do.

Highly unlikely. The major sources of bad car sound are car company
engineers who don't know, don't care, or are too deep into OEM-provided
perks to make discerning choices and demand the best.

I had a GM years ago
that had that problem - so I had to search a junkyard for stock
10 ohm 6*9s for the rear.($20 IIRC)

That would be years ago. At one time car radios (even SS car radios) had
output transformers.

You see - they put in the stereo first sometimes and sometimes
the speakers first - then slap the other unit in, so if you get
a "upgrade" package, sometimes they weren't really tested/mated
to work well together.

That was then, this is now.

I bet that a new stereo capable of driving all of the speakers at 4 ohms
will fix everything.

The quality of the speakers and their integration into the final package is
highly relevant. The audio electronics packages receive digital signals from
the vehicle body electronics that tell them how to configure themselves for
the particular vehicle's equipment, including the speakers.

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
link.net

Arny Krueger wrote:
Ah - my bad. But they are all very similar. The Infinity car
speakers are the premium brand, though - much better IME than the JBL
models.


They come out of the same factories and are made to spec per the
auto-company's engineering department. This means that if the auto-company
engineer who is in charge of the JBL-branded system is more skillful and
demanding than some other auto-company engineer who is in charge of a
Levinson or Infinity-branded system, he gets the better drivers, and the
better sound.

I've heard both - not hard when I used to live 3 miles from the
Northridge campus - and the Infinty car speakers are a bit
better overall, but they do charge way more. I think they take the
slightly better drivers and label them as Infnity.

It *might* be that the goofballs at the factory put a normal
factory stereo that is meant to drive 8 or 10 ohm stock
speakers in with a set of 4 or 6 ohm Infinitys.

Highly unlikely. OEM drivers are almost always 4 ohms or below because
switching power supplies are for all intents and purposes, no-nos.

My GM factory radio is set up to drive 4 10 ohm speakers. It will
not reliably drive even a single pair of 4 ohm ones.

Course it's GM - so all bets are kind of off. Lol.

You see - they put in the stereo first sometimes and sometimes
the speakers first - then slap the other unit in, so if you get
a "upgrade" package, sometimes they weren't really tested/mated
to work well together.

That was then, this is now.

Well, it's not inconcieveable that something might slip past the
rubes you are more interested in shaving pennies than making a good
audio system.

I would be interested to hear your recommendation of what I should do
with my current stereo/speakers,including brand recommendation (not the
least expensive, not the most).
Robin


In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
link.net
Arny Krueger wrote:

Not quite. Harman owns both JBL & Infinity (and a ton of other
brands).. Infinity and JBL car audio speaker drivers may or may not
be made in the same Harman plant, no matter how the system is
branded. Ditto for Levinson.

Ah - my bad. But they are all very similar. The Infinity car
speakers are the premium brand, though - much better IME than the JBL
models.

They come out of the same factories and are made to spec per the
auto-company's engineering department. This means that if the auto-company
engineer who is in charge of the JBL-branded system is more skillful and
demanding than some other auto-company engineer who is in charge of a
Levinson or Infinity-branded system, he gets the better drivers, and the
better sound.


There is also a "voicing" step where parametric equalizers in the
electronics packages are tuned by auto-company engineers. This can have a
rather profound effect on the sound quality of the automotive system.

This contrasts with Bose systems which are almost entirely under the control
of Bose. If it is Bose-branded, all relevant sound quality choices have been
made by Bose staff. In the OEM car sound business, there is Bose and there
is everybody else. Everybody else sells pieces. Bose sells systems as they
are installed.

The standard final measures of OEM audio system sound quality are the E.H.
Power's customer satisfaction reports which are provided to the car
companies, for a price of course. They are highly distilled - just tables of
numbers, but they make very interesting reading. They show who is having
problems with catalytic converters or car radios. In some car companies
engineering-department staff and management professional progress are
largely pegged to Powers' reports. The results would surprise many.

They certainly sound better than the Alpine and Kenwoods from what
I have heard - but usually are too pricey for my budget - so I
usually "settle" for the Kenwoods - which sound 80% as good.

Under the covers, the electronics may well be made by Alpine. AFAIK Kenwood
is not pursuing OEM business.

It *might* be that the goofballs at the factory put a normal
factory stereo that is meant to drive 8 or 10 ohm stock
speakers in with a set of 4 or 6 ohm Infinitys.

Highly unlikely. OEM drivers are almost always 4 ohms or below because
switching power supplies are for all intents and purposes, no-nos.

A gross impedance
mismatch would create exactly the problem you are experiencing -
flabby, dull sound no matter what you do.

Highly unlikely. The major sources of bad car sound are car company
engineers who don't know, don't care, or are too deep into OEM-provided
perks to make discerning choices and demand the best.

I had a GM years ago
that had that problem - so I had to search a junkyard for stock
10 ohm 6*9s for the rear.($20 IIRC)

That would be years ago. At one time car radios (even SS car radios) had
output transformers.

You see - they put in the stereo first sometimes and sometimes
the speakers first - then slap the other unit in, so if you get
a "upgrade" package, sometimes they weren't really tested/mated
to work well together.

That was then, this is now.

I bet that a new stereo capable of driving all of the speakers at 4 ohms
will fix everything.

The quality of the speakers and their integration into the final package is
highly relevant. The audio electronics packages receive digital signals from
the vehicle body electronics that tell them how to configure themselves for
the particular vehicle's equipment, including the speakers.



--
Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4

It *might* be that the goofballs at the factory put a normal
factory stereo that is meant to drive 8 or 10 ohm stock
speakers in with a set of 4 or 6 ohm Infinitys.

Highly unlikely. OEM drivers are almost always 4 ohms or below because
switching power supplies are for all intents and purposes, no-nos.


My GM is a '97, and came with 10 ohm speakers stock... no output transformers,
but probably some sort of BTL output stage.I don't know what they're doing with
the new models, but I wouldn't put money on GM getting rid of 10 ohm speakers.

Robin wrote:

I would be interested to hear your recommendation of what I should do
with my current stereo/speakers,including brand recommendation (not the
least expensive, not the most).

A good Kenwood or Alpine stereo should help. If the bass is flabby,
then think about better speakers. Often just going to 6 inch
coax alone makes all the difference if the factory models are 3-4
inchers.

In article .net,
Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Robin wrote:

I would be interested to hear your recommendation of what I should do
with my current stereo/speakers,including brand recommendation (not the
least expensive, not the most).

A good Kenwood or Alpine stereo should help. If the bass is flabby,
then think about better speakers. Often just going to 6 inch
coax alone makes all the difference if the factory models are 3-4
inchers.

I spoke with a managerial type sounding guy at local Al & Ed's Auto
Sound; he suggested I bring the car in to let his technician assess it,
but he's thinking to just start with an amplifier before replacing head
unit and speakers. He said it depends, on some Infinity systems, its
more complicated to install while on others, less complicated (meaning,
that will affect cost). If I just go with amplifier, to expect to spend
approx $350. I was a little surprised that it costs that much for an
amplifier/installation. I will bring it in to him to assess, but
wondered what the opinion is on Al & Ed's, if they're considered
expensive, any alternative ideas.

--
Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4

Robin wrote:

In article .net,
Joseph Oberlander wrote:


Robin wrote:


I would be interested to hear your recommendation of what I should do
with my current stereo/speakers,including brand recommendation (not the
least expensive, not the most).

A good Kenwood or Alpine stereo should help. If the bass is flabby,
then think about better speakers. Often just going to 6 inch
coax alone makes all the difference if the factory models are 3-4
inchers.


I spoke with a managerial type sounding guy at local Al & Ed's Auto
Sound; he suggested I bring the car in to let his technician assess it,
but he's thinking to just start with an amplifier before replacing head
unit and speakers. He said it depends, on some Infinity systems, its
more complicated to install while on others, less complicated (meaning,
that will affect cost). If I just go with amplifier, to expect to spend
approx $350. I was a little surprised that it costs that much for an
amplifier/installation. I will bring it in to him to assess, but
wondered what the opinion is on Al & Ed's, if they're considered
expensive, any alternative ideas.

$350 is actually average, but you'll get good sound. That they
charge $350+ for factory crud is what's amazing.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ...
---snip---

That would be years ago. At one time car radios (even SS car radios) had
output transformers.

---snip---

And soon after tube radios were phased out for solid state it wasn't
uncommon to find a Delco with a single TO-3 package germanium output
transistor, no transformer, working into a 40 Ohm speaker. I don't
think I've ever encountered a solid state car radio with an output
transformer. Of course they usually had some pretty big choke coils.