Is there a standard way to test a condenser mike for pops, which I assume is
caused by a defectively tensioned diaphram?

On Wed, 3 May 2006 06:12:31 -0400, "soundhaspriority"
wrote:

Is there a standard way to test a condenser mike for pops, which I assume is
caused by a defectively tensioned diaphram?

No, popping is not caused by a mic defect. It is something to which
all mics are subject to a degree. But -

Omnidirectional mics have sealed diaphragms which makes them
reasonably resistant to pops. Cardioid mics are partially sealed, so
they will pop. Figure 8 mics have the diaphragm suspended freely, and
will move with the body of air, so are very easily popped.

You cure pops by either training your vocalist, repositioning the mic
away to the side of air blasts or by using a pop screen, which
intercepts the air blast. To train your vocalists, get them to hold
the back of their hand just in front on their mouth while singing. If
they can feel air blasts while singing p's and b's, have them modify
their pronunciation technique until they can almost no longer feel the
air.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"soundhaspriority"
wrote in message
news
Is there a standard way to test a condenser mike for
pops, which I assume is caused by a defectively tensioned
diaphram?

Pearce has it right - popping of microphones is caused by a small wind
created by the breath, when pronouncing certain word sounds, particularly
p's.

Because the problem is essentially wind noise and not due to sound waves per
se, it is possible to reduce or eliminate popping by addressing the wind,
and not sound.

For example, popping can be reduced by holding a pencil or pen between the
mouth and the mic. The object will deflect the wind, while the sound will go
around it.

Pop filters work by stopping the wind while simultaneously being
acoustically transparent. The classic pop filter is one or more layers of
acoustically-transparent fabric stretched over an embroidery frame. Foam pop
filters work based on the same principle.

Mics designed for use as vocal mics usually have detachable covers with foam
pop filters inside. When pop filters get smelly, they can be removed and
rinsed in mild soapy water, mouthwash, or the like.

Once you have a recording with popping, high pass filtering can help. Most
voices are relatively unaffected by sharp high pass filtering at 85 Hz,
while higher-pitched voices can tolerate filtering as high as 200 Hz or so.
DAW software will enable you to mark and filter only the actual popping and
leave most of the recording alone.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"soundhaspriority"
wrote in message
news
Is there a standard way to test a condenser mike for
pops, which I assume is caused by a defectively tensioned
diaphram?

Pearce has it right - popping of microphones is caused by a small wind
created by the breath, when pronouncing certain word sounds, particularly
p's.

Because the problem is essentially wind noise and not due to sound waves
per se, it is possible to reduce or eliminate popping by addressing the
wind, and not sound.

For example, popping can be reduced by holding a pencil or pen between the
mouth and the mic. The object will deflect the wind, while the sound will
go around it.

Pop filters work by stopping the wind while simultaneously being
acoustically transparent. The classic pop filter is one or more layers of
acoustically-transparent fabric stretched over an embroidery frame. Foam
pop filters work based on the same principle.

Mics designed for use as vocal mics usually have detachable covers with
foam pop filters inside. When pop filters get smelly, they can be removed
and rinsed in mild soapy water, mouthwash, or the like.

Once you have a recording with popping, high pass filtering can help. Most
voices are relatively unaffected by sharp high pass filtering at 85 Hz,
while higher-pitched voices can tolerate filtering as high as 200 Hz or
so. DAW software will enable you to mark and filter only the actual
popping and leave most of the recording alone.

soundhaspriority wrote:
Is there a standard way to test a condenser mike for pops, which I assume is
caused by a defectively tensioned diaphram?

It depends on what you mean by "popping." (Standard newsgroup
complaint #4 - They never give all the information)

If you mean response to plosives - you get large, low frequency
transients when you say "Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers"
close to the mic - well, they just about all do that. Learn to speak
without plosives or get a good pop screen.

If the mic just produces popping/snapping noises when it's just sitting
there in thin air, it could be a result of a damaged diaphragm, or it
could be from excess moisture.

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
ps.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
Is there a standard way to test a condenser mike for pops, which I assume
is
caused by a defectively tensioned diaphram?

It depends on what you mean by "popping." (Standard newsgroup
complaint #4 - They never give all the information)

If you mean response to plosives - you get large, low frequency
transients when you say "Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers"
close to the mic - well, they just about all do that. Learn to speak
without plosives or get a good pop screen.

If the mic just produces popping/snapping noises when it's just sitting
there in thin air, it could be a result of a damaged diaphragm, or it
could be from excess moisture.

One professional sound engineer made the following report about a pair of
Studio Concepts C-4's I'm receiving today:
http://www.harmony-central.com/Recor...ects/C4-1.html
He said, "and in each set of mics at least one mic created low frequency
pops. This probably wouldn't be a problem if used on a kit but even close on
a piano this was audible."

Rather than wait for the situation to present itself, I'd like to qualify
these mikes.

"soundhaspriority"
wrote in message

One professional sound engineer made the following report
about a pair of Studio Concepts C-4's I'm receiving today:
http://www.harmony-central.com/Recor...ects/C4-1.html
He said, "and in each set of mics at least one mic
created low frequency pops. This probably wouldn't be a
problem if used on a kit but even close on a piano this
was audible."

A fuller quote sheds more light for me:

"The noise floor is unacceptable for ambient micing and in each set of mics
at least one mic created low frequency pops. This probably wouldn't be a
problem if used on a kit but even close on a piano this was audible."

Pianos don't make wind, so this is not classic wind-velocity based popping.

I think that the Harmony Central author is complaining about a high level of
background noise. The C4 spec sheet specifies a low enough noise level that
noise should not be a problem if the mics meet spec. This could be a QC
problem.

Frankly, I've never heard a mic pop when used with a musical instrument or
distant-micing unless there was a problem with a loose connection or
vibrations were ransmitted through the floor.

Loose connections are usually the fault of the mic cables not the mics. Some
mic cables work better with some mics than others.

I've seen shock mounts that sagged and allowed metal-to-metal contact and
feed-through even when the rubber bands were new and limber. But, the Studio
Projects SPSK shock mounts look like a design that maximizes the clearances,
so I wouldn't expect feed-through problems with them. However, they may not
have been used, because they apparently can be an option in some cases. Or,
the guy had the shock mounts but just didn't bother with them.

soundhaspriority wrote:
Is there a standard way to test a condenser mike for pops, which I assume is
caused by a defectively tensioned diaphram?

I'm not sure what you're asking here.
Are you talking about how easy P-popping is?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
soundhaspriority wrote:
Is there a standard way to test a condenser mike for pops, which I assume
is
caused by a defectively tensioned diaphram?

I'm not sure what you're asking here.
Are you talking about how easy P-popping is?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

One professional sound engineer made the following report about a pair of
Studio Concepts C-4's I'm receiving today:
http://www.harmony-central.com/Recor...ects/C4-1.html
He said, "and in each set of mics at least one mic created low frequency
pops. This probably wouldn't be a problem if used on a kit but even close on
a piano this was audible."

Rather than wait for the situation to present itself, I'd like to qualify
these mikes.

soundhaspriority wrote:

One professional sound engineer made the following report about a pair of
Studio Concepts C-4's I'm receiving today:
http://www.harmony-central.com/Recor...ects/C4-1.html
He said, "and in each set of mics at least one mic created low frequency
pops. This probably wouldn't be a problem if used on a kit but even close on
a piano this was audible."

Rather than wait for the situation to present itself, I'd like to qualify
these mikes.

That's a broken mike. Probably due to moisture that got absorbed due to
contamination. I'd probably call that "rumble" if it's what I'm thinking
it is. It's usually a sign the assembly facility isn't so clean.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
soundhaspriority wrote:

One professional sound engineer made the following report about a pair of
Studio Concepts C-4's I'm receiving today:
http://www.harmony-central.com/Recor...ects/C4-1.html
He said, "and in each set of mics at least one mic created low frequency
pops. This probably wouldn't be a problem if used on a kit but even close
on
a piano this was audible."

Rather than wait for the situation to present itself, I'd like to qualify
these mikes.

That's a broken mike. Probably due to moisture that got absorbed due to
contamination. I'd probably call that "rumble" if it's what I'm thinking
it is. It's usually a sign the assembly facility isn't so clean.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

There's no testing procedure to provoke it?

soundhaspriority wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

That's a broken mike. Probably due to moisture that got absorbed due to
contamination. I'd probably call that "rumble" if it's what I'm thinking
it is. It's usually a sign the assembly facility isn't so clean.

There's no testing procedure to provoke it?

Plug in a preamp and listen on headphones. If you hear it rumble, don't
buy it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

It sounds like you've already purchased these, based on your statement:

"...about a pair of Studio Concepts (I think you meant 'Projects')
C-4's I'm receiving today..."

You need to stop spending money and start testing before you purchase.
But before that, you need to do some research, which means reading
about stuff like this.

If you do not have the option of testing beforehand, buy only from
places that have a good return policy.

When you receive microphones, immediately start to put them through the
testing to be sure they do what they should, sound like they should and
will be acceptable for your needs.

We're happy to help you, but it would help you more to actually buy
some books by qualified engineers and read up on what you are striving
to put together. There are some really good manuals out there.

Learn about the components of a recording studio, their function and
the best way to build up your stock of equipment, what to buy first, et
al.

By the way, Harmony Central is often more a "users" forum and less a
"professional" forum. To it's credit, you can get a sesne of what a
piece of gear is about. But I am leary of their viability as an
authoritative source of information on the more critical aspects of
gear.

For that, you may wish to subscribe to industry trades like Mix, which
have reviews and articles on techniques and on many levels of gear.
They also have a website where they post the reviews spanning many
years' time.

Sound on Sound, Proaudio, record producer, all dot coms, have similar,
equally professional level reviews and articles. And there is our
illustrious Ty Ford's site, too. He even has mp3 audio samples.

Perhaps you are already doing this. If so, keep reading and digging for
the info. These are just some helpful suggestions you may wish to
pursue.

--Fletch

"Fletch" wrote in message
ups.com...
It sounds like you've already purchased these, based on your statement:

"...about a pair of Studio Concepts (I think you meant 'Projects')
C-4's I'm receiving today..."

You need to stop spending money and start testing before you purchase.
But before that, you need to do some research, which means reading
about stuff like this.

I did.

If you do not have the option of testing beforehand, buy only from
places that have a good return policy.

B&H in NYC. Fantastic place. Staffed by sound pros, some multilingual.

When you receive microphones, immediately start to put them through the
testing to be sure they do what they should, sound like they should and
will be acceptable for your needs.

We're happy to help you, but it would help you more to actually buy
some books by qualified engineers and read up on what you are striving
to put together. There are some really good manuals out there.

Fletch, please stick to the question. FYI, this is for pleasure, and
service-swapping. I am a hifi audiophile. I love really, really good
recordings. My new sport is trying to do them myself. I am not a
project-studio kind of guy.

Learn about the components of a recording studio, their function and
the best way to build up your stock of equipment, what to buy first, et
al.

Fletch, this is very condescending. I've done two film soundtracks and a TV
pilot, using both my HHB Portadat, a Tascam FW-1082, Steinberge Cubase,
Soundforge, and the Audio Restoration Suite. Ever spend three weeks getting
camera noise out of a sound track? I have.

By the way, Harmony Central is often more a "users" forum and less a
"professional" forum. To it's credit, you can get a sesne of what a
piece of gear is about. But I am leary of their viability as an
authoritative source of information on the more critical aspects of
gear.

I think you're right.

For that, you may wish to subscribe to industry trades like Mix, which
have reviews and articles on techniques and on many levels of gear.
They also have a website where they post the reviews spanning many
years' time.

I'm pretty simple. I'm not a project kind of guy, and I don't think I'll be
compressing/fuzzing the hell out of tracks. I would like to do some chamber
ensembles.


Sound on Sound, Proaudio, record producer, all dot coms, have similar,
equally professional level reviews and articles. And there is our
illustrious Ty Ford's site, too. He even has mp3 audio samples.

Perhaps you are already doing this. If so, keep reading and digging for
the info. These are just some helpful suggestions you may wish to
pursue.

--Fletch

Thanks. Now, how would you go about doing acceptance testing on a condenser
mike?

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
soundhaspriority wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

That's a broken mike. Probably due to moisture that got absorbed due to
contamination. I'd probably call that "rumble" if it's what I'm
thinking
it is. It's usually a sign the assembly facility isn't so clean.

There's no testing procedure to provoke it?

Plug in a preamp and listen on headphones. If you hear it rumble, don't
buy it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Will do, thanks.

In article , "Fletch"
wrote:

You need to stop spending money and start testing before you purchase.
But before that, you need to do some research, which means reading
about stuff like this.

If you do not have the option of testing beforehand, buy only from
places that have a good return policy.

When you receive microphones, immediately start to put them through the
testing to be sure they do what they should, sound like they should and
will be acceptable for your needs.

I've read this board long enough, so now I know everything. I can read a
datasheet, and that's the only way to buy equipment - specs. I went to
college for a long time, too and clearly I'm smarter than any of you other
pro audio fools.

"soundhaspriority" is actually Robert Morein, a pest on
rec.audio.marketplace, where he accuses innocent sellers of various
misdeeds. He appears to be a pathological liar, with unknown motivations.

Morein is the owner of websites http://www.studentsandthelaw.com, which have
used fraudulent advertising in attempts to attract investors. Both have been
unsuccessful. Morein is known to associate with sexual predators and
pedophiles including Brian McCarty. Find "Brian McCarty" at this website:
http://tinyurl.com/bz2bh

Morein is an Israeli expatriate, originally from the Trenton area, where he
went to college for 12 years without any degree ever being conferred. He
then tried suing Drexel University for fraud, but the court rejected
Morein's arguments. As everyone with a lick of sense does.

Morien is currently living in his daddy's house in Dresher Pennsylvania,
where he manages to stalk a wide variety of people while swilling beer and
ogling the neighbors. He has no job. He never has. He never will.
His daddy's house is located at
1570 Arran Way
Dresher, PA

Morein lives at 1570 Arran Way, Dresher Pennsylvania,
a bit west of metropolitan Philadelphia.

Robert Morein can be contacted at

soundhaspriority wrote:

Now, how would you go about doing acceptance testing on a condenser mike?

Acceptance testing ? Wow !

Graham

soundhaspriority wrote:

Is there a standard way to test a condenser mike for pops, which I assume
is caused by a defectively tensioned diaphram?

Usually, it's caused by defectively tensioned lips.

"Fletch" wrote in message
oups.com...
It was not my intention to be condescending. In previous threads I
personally read nothing of your past experiences, though you may have
posted this info. Please accept my apologies.

B&H is a good place, yeah. I've had only good experiences with them.

Scott has already covered a simple procedure for testing a condenser
microphone, most mics actually, other than a ribbon, with the
following:

Plug in a preamp and listen on headphones. If you hear it rumble, don't
buy it.

--Fletch

Thanks.

soundhaspriority wrote:
Is there a standard way to test a condenser mike for pops, which I assume is
caused by a defectively tensioned diaphram?

It's sensitivity to wind is a good measure. It isn't about any kind of
defect but rather a measurement of what is going on with the air. The
plosive noise you refer to is not a sound wave, it is a low pressure, high
velocity air flow.

An omni mic measures pressure and a directional mic has a gradient
component which measures velocity. Thus omni mics are less sensitive to
plosives than directive ones.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler."

A. Einstein

"Bob Cain"

Is there a standard way to test a condenser mike for pops, which I assume
is
caused by a defectively tensioned diaphram?

It's sensitivity to wind is a good measure. It isn't about any kind of
defect but rather a measurement of what is going on with the air. The
plosive noise you refer to is not a sound wave, it is a low pressure, high
velocity air flow.

An omni mic measures pressure and a directional mic has a gradient
component which measures velocity. Thus omni mics are less sensitive to
plosives than directive ones.


Bob


** Hey DICKWAD - read the bloody THREAD !!!!!

The ****wit OP has a faulty mic that makes popping noises all on its own.




.......... Phil

Phil Allison wrote:
"Bob Cain"
Is there a standard way to test a condenser mike for pops, which I assume
is
caused by a defectively tensioned diaphram?
It's sensitivity to wind is a good measure. It isn't about any kind of
defect but rather a measurement of what is going on with the air. The
plosive noise you refer to is not a sound wave, it is a low pressure, high
velocity air flow.

An omni mic measures pressure and a directional mic has a gradient
component which measures velocity. Thus omni mics are less sensitive to
plosives than directive ones.


Bob


** Hey DICKWAD - read the bloody THREAD !!!!!

The ****wit OP has a faulty mic that makes popping noises all on its own.




......... Phil

Geez, Phil, I'm terribly sorry. What can I do to make amends?


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler."

A. Einstein

Bob Cain wrote:

Geez, Phil, I'm terribly sorry. What can I do to make amends?

Buy two identical mics. Rig one so that it explodes as soon as phantom
power is applied. Send one to the original poster and the other to
Phil.

"Mike Rivers"
Bob Cain wrote:

Geez, Phil, I'm terribly sorry. What can I do to make amends?

Buy two identical mics. Rig one so that it explodes as soon as phantom
power is applied. Send one to the original poster and the other to
Phil.


** He, he he, now that is actually quite funny.

Long as no persons of Middle East appearance are involved ....




........ Phil