I want to share my recent discovery of
what seems to be my first
effective clicks and pops removal agent for Lps.
I looked for something on the MG Chemicals shelves in
an electronic
supply store. Finally I rang MG technical support and was advised to
try their
"LCD cleaning wipes".
I have been using detergent soap, distilled water and
isopropyl alcohol
mixture. Results - very indifferent. In the past I had a few goes with
the lp cleaning
machines. No better. I decided that some records had these noises built
in
in the pressing stage.
Well, these wipes work better than anything I
tried in decades.
Not 100% but enough to make listening enjoyable.
Disclosu I asked MG. to send me a few samples
for research but
they declined. So I have no axe to grind other than my love of the lp.
community.
While I'm at it a few recent, great LPs finds in
second hand stores:
Glenn Gould's Bach's Concertos for keyboard and
strings on
Columbia. Same combo "Inventions" These lps are older then the later CD
versions
that is labelled "From previously issued material". I assume it means
they came from
the same master. To my ears lps sound infinitely more like real-life
virtuso piano
playing than the later cd version. Not a "subtle" difference! Just no
comparison.
Please, don't ask me why. I heard all the
arguments why cd version
should be superior and I have no answer. Also I don't care if it is
"accurate" to the master. I want it to be the closest to my actual
performance experience not to the engineers' idea of what I should
like.
I'm not taking any dogmatic, partisan side, I
heard one cd version
from an old master that sounded better than the corresponding lp.
I just report what I heard. I use VPI TNT
turntable with SME IV arm
and Grado Symphony cartridge through a custom phono preamp.

My cdplayer is a reworked and upgraded Pioneer with a custom
line preamp.
I' d be most interested to hear if any had
different experience
listening to these particular records.
Other LP. finds: Alicia Delarrhocha playing
Bach's piano on London.
Pablo Casals conducting Mozart Symph.
34 & 40 on Columbia
( the first version of Mozart's symphs on record that sounded to me
close to a live performance)
I. Pearlman playing Mendelssohn's &
Bruch's violin concvs.
Ansermet conducting Rimski- Korsakoff's
Scheherezade
on London
Faure "Requiem" on Seraphim.
R. Muti conducting Chabrier's Espana.
There's more but that's enough
typing for today.
Except for this story. A friend of a
friend, a member of Vancouver Symphony Orch. was entertaing Alicia
Delarrocha after her concert. She was asked to play and answered,: "It
is always -please play Albeniz or Granados or De Falla-. Just
because I'm Spanish. But I'm a Spanish Bach specialist and that's what
I'll play"
Ludovic Mirabel

In article .com,
" wrote:

I want to share my recent discovery of
what seems to be my first
effective clicks and pops removal agent for Lps.
I looked for something on the MG Chemicals shelves in
an electronic
supply store. Finally I rang MG technical support and was advised to
try their
"LCD cleaning wipes".
I have been using detergent soap, distilled water and
isopropyl alcohol
mixture. Results - very indifferent.

Soap? Really? What type? It seems like this would leave a big
residue.

In the past I had a few goes with
the lp cleaning
machines. No better. I decided that some records had these noises built
in
in the pressing stage.
Well, these wipes work better than anything I
tried in decades.
Not 100% but enough to make listening enjoyable.
Disclosu I asked MG. to send me a few samples
for research but
they declined. So I have no axe to grind other than my love of the lp.
community.
While I'm at it a few recent, great LPs finds in
second hand stores:
Glenn Gould's Bach's Concertos for keyboard and
strings on
Columbia. Same combo "Inventions"

Those are classic recordings, by one of the most enigmatic performers
we've ever seen. I generally don't like Bach keyboard works performed
on piano, but these performances are truly great, IMO.


These lps are older then the later CD
versions
that is labelled "From previously issued material". I assume it means
they came from
the same master. To my ears lps sound infinitely more like real-life
virtuso piano
playing than the later cd version. Not a "subtle" difference! Just no
comparison.
Please, don't ask me why. I heard all the
arguments why cd version
should be superior and I have no answer. Also I don't care if it is
"accurate" to the master. I want it to be the closest to my actual
performance experience not to the engineers' idea of what I should
like.
I'm not taking any dogmatic, partisan side, I
heard one cd version
from an old master that sounded better than the corresponding lp.
I just report what I heard. I use VPI TNT
turntable with SME IV arm
and Grado Symphony cartridge through a custom phono preamp.

My cdplayer is a reworked and upgraded Pioneer with a custom
line preamp.
I' d be most interested to hear if any had
different experience
listening to these particular records.
Other LP. finds: Alicia Delarrhocha playing
Bach's piano on London.
Pablo Casals conducting Mozart Symph.
34 & 40 on Columbia
( the first version of Mozart's symphs on record that sounded to me
close to a live performance)
I. Pearlman playing Mendelssohn's &
Bruch's violin concvs.
Ansermet conducting Rimski- Korsakoff's
Scheherezade
on London
Faure "Requiem" on Seraphim.

A fine recording of a great work. I'm working on it now myself for a
performance of it in May.

R. Muti conducting Chabrier's Espana.
There's more but that's enough
typing for today.
Except for this story. A friend of a
friend, a member of Vancouver Symphony Orch. was entertaing Alicia
Delarrocha after her concert. She was asked to play and answered,: "It
is always -please play Albeniz or Granados or De Falla-. Just
because I'm Spanish. But I'm a Spanish Bach specialist and that's what
I'll play"

Have fun!

wrote in message
oups.com...
I want to share my recent discovery of
what seems to be my first
effective clicks and pops removal agent for Lps.
I looked for something on the MG Chemicals shelves in
an electronic
supply store. Finally I rang MG technical support and was advised to
try their
"LCD cleaning wipes".
I have been using detergent soap, distilled water and
isopropyl alcohol
mixture. Results - very indifferent. In the past I had a few goes with
the lp cleaning
machines. No better.

Possibly petroleum benzine?

From the Dell FAQ:

There are many cleaners sold specifically as LCD cleaners. These are
perfectly acceptable for cleaning LCDs on Dell notebooks. If you do not
wish to purchase one of these products designated specifically as an LCD
cleanser, the following is a list of what is and is not acceptable for
cleaning your LCD.
The following cleaners are acceptable:
Water
IPA (Isoprophyl Alcohol)
Hexane
Petroleum Benzine

The following cleaners are unacceptable:
Acetone
Ethyl alcohol
Toluene
Ethyl acid
Ammonia
Methyl chloride
NOTICE:
These cleaners might cause permanent damage to the LCD due to a chemical
reaction. Some commercial window cleaners contain ammonia and are generally
unacceptable.

Jenn wrote:
In article .com,
" wrote:
Those are classic recordings, by one of the most enigmatic performers
we've ever seen. I generally don't like Bach keyboard works performed
on piano, but these performances are truly great, IMO.

Really, Jenn. I find Bach "prissy" played on the harspichord; it takes
a piano to demonstrate the true virility of his music. Yes, he wrote
for the harpsichord, but I always imagine him thinking, "Wish they had
something better than this. Something that makes a real clang rather
than this pathetic tinkle." Each to his own, I guess.

In article . com,
"paul packer" wrote:

Jenn wrote:
In article .com,
" wrote:
Those are classic recordings, by one of the most enigmatic performers
we've ever seen. I generally don't like Bach keyboard works performed
on piano, but these performances are truly great, IMO.

Really, Jenn. I find Bach "prissy" played on the harspichord; it takes
a piano to demonstrate the true virility of his music. Yes, he wrote
for the harpsichord, but I always imagine him thinking, "Wish they had
something better than this. Something that makes a real clang rather
than this pathetic tinkle." Each to his own, I guess.

Of course!

I think that one of the reasons that I generally don't like Bach on
piano (other than your stated reason) is that Bach had such fantastic
control of things that the "tinkle" shows the precision of the work,
whereas piano, with its inherent resonance and rich overtone structure
makes it sound "sloppy" to me. Of course, some of that is brought on by
the players as much as by the instrument. Bach a la Chopin isn't my bag
:-)

Jenn said:


I think that one of the reasons that I generally don't like Bach on
piano (other than your stated reason) is that Bach had such fantastic
control of things that the "tinkle" shows the precision of the work,
whereas piano, with its inherent resonance and rich overtone structure
makes it sound "sloppy" to me. Of course, some of that is brought on by
the players as much as by the instrument. Bach a la Chopin isn't my bag
:-)


Bach was a genius.
Karl Richter, nor Glenn Gould could destroy the beauty of his
compositions.

Nicolaus Harnoncourt and Gustav Leonhardt, just to name a few very
famous Bach performers, showed us the way how to do it.

--

- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -

Sander deWaal wrote:
Jenn said:


I think that one of the reasons that I generally don't like Bach on
piano (other than your stated reason) is that Bach had such fantastic
control of things that the "tinkle" shows the precision of the work,
whereas piano, with its inherent resonance and rich overtone structure
makes it sound "sloppy" to me. Of course, some of that is brought on by
the players as much as by the instrument. Bach a la Chopin isn't my bag
:-)


Bach was a genius.
Karl Richter, nor Glenn Gould could destroy the beauty of his
compositions.

Nicolaus Harnoncourt and Gustav Leonhardt, just to name a few very
famous Bach performers, showed us the way how to do it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
--There you a "De gustibus..." Both of them sound to me boring.
But I'll take this opportunity to mention cds that I find wonderful:
the truest cello
sound I heard on record: Janos Starker playing solo Bach's cello works.

Ludovic Mirabel
.. -

In article .com,
" wrote:

Sander deWaal wrote:
Jenn said:


I think that one of the reasons that I generally don't like Bach on
piano (other than your stated reason) is that Bach had such fantastic
control of things that the "tinkle" shows the precision of the work,
whereas piano, with its inherent resonance and rich overtone structure
makes it sound "sloppy" to me. Of course, some of that is brought on by
the players as much as by the instrument. Bach a la Chopin isn't my bag
:-)


Bach was a genius.
Karl Richter, nor Glenn Gould could destroy the beauty of his
compositions.

Nicolaus Harnoncourt and Gustav Leonhardt, just to name a few very
famous Bach performers, showed us the way how to do it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
--There you a "De gustibus..." Both of them sound to me boring.
But I'll take this opportunity to mention cds that I find wonderful:
the truest cello
sound I heard on record: Janos Starker playing solo Bach's cello works.

Ludovic Mirabel
. -

The one on Mercury, or the one on RCA?

In article ,
Sander deWaal wrote:

Jenn said:


I think that one of the reasons that I generally don't like Bach on
piano (other than your stated reason) is that Bach had such fantastic
control of things that the "tinkle" shows the precision of the work,
whereas piano, with its inherent resonance and rich overtone structure
makes it sound "sloppy" to me. Of course, some of that is brought on by
the players as much as by the instrument. Bach a la Chopin isn't my bag
:-)


Bach was a genius.
Karl Richter, nor Glenn Gould could destroy the beauty of his
compositions.

I agree.

Nicolaus Harnoncourt and Gustav Leonhardt, just to name a few very
famous Bach performers, showed us the way how to do it.

Again, I agree. I'm currently collecting the cantatas conducted by them
for Telefunken (LP).

Jenn said:


Nicolaus Harnoncourt and Gustav Leonhardt, just to name a few very
famous Bach performers, showed us the way how to do it.


Again, I agree. I'm currently collecting the cantatas conducted by them
for Telefunken (LP).



Look also for recordings of Ton Koopman, you'll love them!

--

- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -

Jenn wrote:
In article .com,
" wrote:

Sander deWaal wrote:
Jenn said:


I think that one of the reasons that I generally don't like Bach on
piano (other than your stated reason) is that Bach had such fantastic
control of things that the "tinkle" shows the precision of the work,
whereas piano, with its inherent resonance and rich overtone structure
makes it sound "sloppy" to me. Of course, some of that is brought on by
the players as much as by the instrument. Bach a la Chopin isn't my bag
:-)


Bach was a genius.
Karl Richter, nor Glenn Gould could destroy the beauty of his
compositions.

Nicolaus Harnoncourt and Gustav Leonhardt, just to name a few very
famous Bach performers, showed us the way how to do it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
--There you a "De gustibus..." Both of them sound to me boring.
But I'll take this opportunity to mention cds that I find wonderful:
the truest cello
sound I heard on record: Janos Starker playing solo Bach's cello works.

Ludovic Mirabel
. -

The one on Mercury, or the one on RCA?

Rca(Victrola). I did not know Mercury existed but will try to get it.
Thank you.
I'll claim the right of voicing one's opinion however ignorant and
primitive.
I never shared the general acclaim for Mercury "Living Presence". To
me they sound too "bright" with emphasis somewhere between 2000
and 5000hz. (beyond that I have progressive fall off typical of an aged
male
who used to fire machine gun before anyone thought of protecting
the ear-drums). .
As for Telefunken Cantatas they seem to me to be one of the examples of

the D. Gramm. sound at its worst.
So there : to each his own. There ain't no test.
Ludovic Mirabel

In article .com,
" wrote:

Jenn wrote:
In article .com,
" wrote:

Sander deWaal wrote:
Jenn said:


I think that one of the reasons that I generally don't like Bach on
piano (other than your stated reason) is that Bach had such fantastic
control of things that the "tinkle" shows the precision of the work,
whereas piano, with its inherent resonance and rich overtone structure
makes it sound "sloppy" to me. Of course, some of that is brought on
by
the players as much as by the instrument. Bach a la Chopin isn't my
bag
:-)


Bach was a genius.
Karl Richter, nor Glenn Gould could destroy the beauty of his
compositions.

Nicolaus Harnoncourt and Gustav Leonhardt, just to name a few very
famous Bach performers, showed us the way how to do it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
--There you a "De gustibus..." Both of them sound to me boring.
But I'll take this opportunity to mention cds that I find wonderful:
the truest cello
sound I heard on record: Janos Starker playing solo Bach's cello works.

Ludovic Mirabel
. -

The one on Mercury, or the one on RCA?

Rca(Victrola). I did not know Mercury existed but will try to get it.
Thank you.
I'll claim the right of voicing one's opinion however ignorant and
primitive.

Of course. We all do!

I never shared the general acclaim for Mercury "Living Presence". To
me they sound too "bright" with emphasis somewhere between 2000
and 5000hz. (beyond that I have progressive fall off typical of an aged
male
who used to fire machine gun before anyone thought of protecting
the ear-drums). .

Some of the Mercs are bright, IMO.

As for Telefunken Cantatas they seem to me to be one of the examples of

the D. Gramm. sound at its worst.

On that we disagree. I think that the Telefunken LP sound (on the
Cantatas and some others that I've experienced) is some of the best for
non "audiophile" labels. I certainly agree that DGG generally has
TERRIBLE. It's a shame Karajan, et al were recorded so badly on DGG.
Same applies to many of the Archiv releases.

So there : to each his own. There ain't no test.

Yep.

In article ,
Sander deWaal wrote:

Jenn said:


Nicolaus Harnoncourt and Gustav Leonhardt, just to name a few very
famous Bach performers, showed us the way how to do it.


Again, I agree. I'm currently collecting the cantatas conducted by them
for Telefunken (LP).



Look also for recordings of Ton Koopman, you'll love them!

Yes, I love his work. His Messiah is excellent, for example. I did a
bit of work with him when he did the Portland (OR) Baroque Orchestra in
the 90s.

I just found out that I was talking through my hat
about Bach's Cantatas. The copy I have and dislike the sound of is not
by Telefunken but Archive- a subdivision of D. Gramm. They still
sound poor to me.
I never heard the Telefunken version but will try.
If I misled someone- apologies. Though I doubt if
anyone pulped his Telefunken on my say so.
Ludovic Mirabel

Jenn wrote:
In article .com,
" wrote:

Jenn wrote:
In article .com,
" wrote:

Sander deWaal wrote:
Jenn said:


I think that one of the reasons that I generally don't like Bach on
piano (other than your stated reason) is that Bach had such fantastic
control of things that the "tinkle" shows the precision of the work,
whereas piano, with its inherent resonance and rich overtone structure
makes it sound "sloppy" to me. Of course, some of that is brought on
by
the players as much as by the instrument. Bach a la Chopin isn't my
bag
:-)


Bach was a genius.
Karl Richter, nor Glenn Gould could destroy the beauty of his
compositions.

Nicolaus Harnoncourt and Gustav Leonhardt, just to name a few very
famous Bach performers, showed us the way how to do it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
--There you a "De gustibus..." Both of them sound to me boring.
But I'll take this opportunity to mention cds that I find wonderful:
the truest cello
sound I heard on record: Janos Starker playing solo Bach's cello works.

Ludovic Mirabel
. -

The one on Mercury, or the one on RCA?

Rca(Victrola). I did not know Mercury existed but will try to get it.
Thank you.
I'll claim the right of voicing one's opinion however ignorant and
primitive.

Of course. We all do!

I never shared the general acclaim for Mercury "Living Presence". To
me they sound too "bright" with emphasis somewhere between 2000
and 5000hz. (beyond that I have progressive fall off typical of an aged
male
who used to fire machine gun before anyone thought of protecting
the ear-drums). .

Some of the Mercs are bright, IMO.

As for Telefunken Cantatas they seem to me to be one of the examples of

the D. Gramm. sound at its worst.

On that we disagree. I think that the Telefunken LP sound (on the
Cantatas and some others that I've experienced) is some of the best for
non "audiophile" labels. I certainly agree that DGG generally has
TERRIBLE. It's a shame Karajan, et al were recorded so badly on DGG.
Same applies to many of the Archiv releases.

So there : to each his own. There ain't no test.

Yep.

I just found out that I was talking through my hat
about Bach's Cantatas. The copy I have and dislike the sound of is not
by Telefunken but Archive- a subdivision of D. Gramm. They still
sound poor to me.
I never heard the Telefunken version but will try.
If I misled someone- apologies. Though I doubt if
anyone pulped his Telefunken on my say so.
Ludovic Mirabel

Jenn wrote:
In article .com,
" wrote:

Jenn wrote:
In article .com,
" wrote:

Sander deWaal wrote:
Jenn said:


I think that one of the reasons that I generally don't like Bach on
piano (other than your stated reason) is that Bach had such fantastic
control of things that the "tinkle" shows the precision of the work,
whereas piano, with its inherent resonance and rich overtone structure
makes it sound "sloppy" to me. Of course, some of that is brought on
by
the players as much as by the instrument. Bach a la Chopin isn't my
bag
:-)


Bach was a genius.
Karl Richter, nor Glenn Gould could destroy the beauty of his
compositions.

Nicolaus Harnoncourt and Gustav Leonhardt, just to name a few very
famous Bach performers, showed us the way how to do it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
--There you a "De gustibus..." Both of them sound to me boring.
But I'll take this opportunity to mention cds that I find wonderful:
the truest cello
sound I heard on record: Janos Starker playing solo Bach's cello works.

Ludovic Mirabel
. -

The one on Mercury, or the one on RCA?

Rca(Victrola). I did not know Mercury existed but will try to get it.
Thank you.
I'll claim the right of voicing one's opinion however ignorant and
primitive.

Of course. We all do!

I never shared the general acclaim for Mercury "Living Presence". To
me they sound too "bright" with emphasis somewhere between 2000
and 5000hz. (beyond that I have progressive fall off typical of an aged
male
who used to fire machine gun before anyone thought of protecting
the ear-drums). .

Some of the Mercs are bright, IMO.

As for Telefunken Cantatas they seem to me to be one of the examples of

the D. Gramm. sound at its worst.

On that we disagree. I think that the Telefunken LP sound (on the
Cantatas and some others that I've experienced) is some of the best for
non "audiophile" labels. I certainly agree that DGG generally has
TERRIBLE. It's a shame Karajan, et al were recorded so badly on DGG.
Same applies to many of the Archiv releases.

So there : to each his own. There ain't no test.

Yep.

In article .com,
" wrote:

I just found out that I was talking through my hat
about Bach's Cantatas. The copy I have and dislike the sound of is not
by Telefunken but Archive- a subdivision of D. Gramm. They still
sound poor to me.

Glad to hear that. The Telefunken Bach Cantatas are really goo, I
think. I'm listening to BWV 4 as I write.

(Oh wait! I'm not listening to Bach, I'm listening to Clearaudio! But
I may as well be listening to a Califone!)

I agree that the Archives are spotty at best.

I never heard the Telefunken version but will try.
If I misled someone- apologies. Though I doubt if
anyone pulped his Telefunken on my say so.
Ludovic Mirabel

Jenn wrote:
In article .com,
" wrote:

Jenn wrote:
In article .com,
" wrote:

Sander deWaal wrote:
Jenn said:


I think that one of the reasons that I generally don't like Bach
on
piano (other than your stated reason) is that Bach had such
fantastic
control of things that the "tinkle" shows the precision of the
work,
whereas piano, with its inherent resonance and rich overtone
structure
makes it sound "sloppy" to me. Of course, some of that is brought
on
by
the players as much as by the instrument. Bach a la Chopin isn't
my
bag
:-)


Bach was a genius.
Karl Richter, nor Glenn Gould could destroy the beauty of his
compositions.

Nicolaus Harnoncourt and Gustav Leonhardt, just to name a few very
famous Bach performers, showed us the way how to do it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
--There you a "De gustibus..." Both of them sound to me boring.
But I'll take this opportunity to mention cds that I find wonderful:
the truest cello
sound I heard on record: Janos Starker playing solo Bach's cello
works.

Ludovic Mirabel
. -

The one on Mercury, or the one on RCA?

Rca(Victrola). I did not know Mercury existed but will try to get it.
Thank you.
I'll claim the right of voicing one's opinion however ignorant and
primitive.

Of course. We all do!

I never shared the general acclaim for Mercury "Living Presence". To
me they sound too "bright" with emphasis somewhere between 2000
and 5000hz. (beyond that I have progressive fall off typical of an aged
male
who used to fire machine gun before anyone thought of protecting
the ear-drums). .

Some of the Mercs are bright, IMO.

As for Telefunken Cantatas they seem to me to be one of the examples of

the D. Gramm. sound at its worst.

On that we disagree. I think that the Telefunken LP sound (on the
Cantatas and some others that I've experienced) is some of the best for
non "audiophile" labels. I certainly agree that DGG generally has
TERRIBLE. It's a shame Karajan, et al were recorded so badly on DGG.
Same applies to many of the Archiv releases.

So there : to each his own. There ain't no test.

Yep.

On Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:44:25 GMT, Jenn
wrote:

The Telefunken Bach Cantatas are really goo, I
think.

That's a rather nasty thing to say, Jenn. :-)