The thing I don't understand is if people actually have such low
standards that they think that Bose Acousticmass systems sound good,
and if very small satellite speakers are very important to them, they
why don't they buy something like the KLH HTA6108 7 piece home theater
speaker system and save themselves like a G?
KLH speakers aren't exactly the best speakers, but with KLH speakers,
you actually get what you paid for.
The sub in the KLH system has a frequency response of 45-180 hz and a
has a 6 1/2 inch woofer, a 50 watt amp, and a crossover at the proper
frequency.
The tiny satellite speakers in the KLH system actually have 2
different driver elements per satellite unlike the Bose systems which
have 2 identical driver elements as I understand.
The KLH system has a 2-3/8" fiber-cone midwoofer, and a 5/8"
ferrofluid-cooled polycarbonate dome tweeter in each satellite
speaker, and thus the satellites have a frequency response of
90hz-20,000hz.
Here's a link.
http://www.amazing-bargains.com/best...l-5820034.html

When you compare the specs of one of the Bose Acousticmass systems at
this link http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html to even the very
cheapest sub/sat home theater systems(like the KLH system) that cost
like $1,000 or more less than the Bose system, then it's not pretty at
all.

It's quite simple really. Most people treat their stereo like an
appliance. And in this rennaisance era of surround sound, you don't know
how many homes I've visited to find the center channel off to the left
or right, in a convenient spot on the shelf, left and right speakers
criss crossed, sub-woofer connected incorrectly, the list goes on and
on. And these listeners sit there thinking they have an awesome system.
Even basic stuff like speakers being out of phase is an all to common
thing as well. I've given up on trying to educate them. I had one user
actually get a bit hostile with me for suggesting their stereo was wired
wrong. Oh well. It's their ears.

CD

SalMX70 wrote:

The thing I don't understand is if people actually have such low
standards that they think that Bose Acousticmass systems sound good,
and if very small satellite speakers are very important to them, they
why don't they buy something like the KLH HTA6108 7 piece home theater
speaker system and save themselves like a G?
KLH speakers aren't exactly the best speakers, but with KLH speakers,
you actually get what you paid for.
The sub in the KLH system has a frequency response of 45-180 hz and a
has a 6 1/2 inch woofer, a 50 watt amp, and a crossover at the proper
frequency.
The tiny satellite speakers in the KLH system actually have 2
different driver elements per satellite unlike the Bose systems which
have 2 identical driver elements as I understand.
The KLH system has a 2-3/8" fiber-cone midwoofer, and a 5/8"
ferrofluid-cooled polycarbonate dome tweeter in each satellite
speaker, and thus the satellites have a frequency response of
90hz-20,000hz.
Here's a link.
http://www.amazing-bargains.com/best...l-5820034.html

When you compare the specs of one of the Bose Acousticmass systems at
this link http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html to even the very
cheapest sub/sat home theater systems(like the KLH system) that cost
like $1,000 or more less than the Bose system, then it's not pretty at
all.

No......most people are just suckers for advertising.

And, actually, you are right about the rest.....................

never mind.......

================
"Codifus" wrote in message
et...
: It's quite simple really. Most people treat their stereo like an
: appliance. And in this rennaisance era of surround sound, you don't know
: how many homes I've visited to find the center channel off to the left
: or right, in a convenient spot on the shelf, left and right speakers
: criss crossed, sub-woofer connected incorrectly, the list goes on and
: on. And these listeners sit there thinking they have an awesome system.
: Even basic stuff like speakers being out of phase is an all to common
: thing as well. I've given up on trying to educate them. I had one user
: actually get a bit hostile with me for suggesting their stereo was wired
: wrong. Oh well. It's their ears.
:
: CD
:
: SalMX70 wrote:
:
: The thing I don't understand is if people actually have such low
: standards that they think that Bose Acousticmass systems sound good,
: and if very small satellite speakers are very important to them, they
: why don't they buy something like the KLH HTA6108 7 piece home theater
: speaker system and save themselves like a G?
: KLH speakers aren't exactly the best speakers, but with KLH speakers,
: you actually get what you paid for.
: The sub in the KLH system has a frequency response of 45-180 hz and a
: has a 6 1/2 inch woofer, a 50 watt amp, and a crossover at the proper
: frequency.
: The tiny satellite speakers in the KLH system actually have 2
: different driver elements per satellite unlike the Bose systems which
: have 2 identical driver elements as I understand.
: The KLH system has a 2-3/8" fiber-cone midwoofer, and a 5/8"
: ferrofluid-cooled polycarbonate dome tweeter in each satellite
: speaker, and thus the satellites have a frequency response of
: 90hz-20,000hz.
: Here's a link.
:
http://www.amazing-bargains.com/best...aker/6-piece-h
ome-theater-speaker-system-w-2-way-satell-5820034.html
:
: When you compare the specs of one of the Bose Acousticmass systems at
: this link http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html to even the very
: cheapest sub/sat home theater systems(like the KLH system) that cost
: like $1,000 or more less than the Bose system, then it's not pretty at
: all.

On 28 Jan 2004 19:40:45 -0800, (SalMX70) wrote:

The thing I don't understand is if people actually have such low
standards that they think that Bose Acousticmass systems sound good,

'Nuff said.

Kal

In article ,
says...


The thing I don't understand is if people actually have such low
standards that they think that Bose Acousticmass systems sound good,
and if very small satellite speakers are very important to them, they
why don't they buy something like the KLH HTA6108 7 piece home theater
speaker system and save themselves like a G?
KLH speakers aren't exactly the best speakers, but with KLH speakers,
you actually get what you paid for.
The sub in the KLH system has a frequency response of 45-180 hz and a
has a 6 1/2 inch woofer, a 50 watt amp, and a crossover at the proper
frequency.
The tiny satellite speakers in the KLH system actually have 2
different driver elements per satellite unlike the Bose systems which
have 2 identical driver elements as I understand.
The KLH system has a 2-3/8" fiber-cone midwoofer, and a 5/8"
ferrofluid-cooled polycarbonate dome tweeter in each satellite
speaker, and thus the satellites have a frequency response of
90hz-20,000hz.
Here's a link.
http://www.amazing-bargains.com/best...ter-speaker/6-
piece-home-theater-speaker-system-w-2-way-satell-5820034.html

When you compare the specs of one of the Bose Acousticmass systems at
this link http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html to even the very
cheapest sub/sat home theater systems(like the KLH system) that cost
like $1,000 or more less than the Bose system, then it's not pretty at
all.

Advertising! Plus, the bose speakers are smaller than most other systems,
so they are easy to integrate into a home.
------------
Alex

In article , says...


On 28 Jan 2004 19:40:45 -0800, (SalMX70) wrote:

The thing I don't understand is if people actually have such low
standards that they think that Bose Acousticmass systems sound good,

'Nuff said.

That is only half the explanation. There are lots of other less expensive
speaker systems that sound just as good, or bad, as bose. Why don't they
sell in huge numbers too? It's all about the clever advertising.
-------------
Alex

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:25:23 -0500, Alex Rodriguez
wrote:

In article , says...


On 28 Jan 2004 19:40:45 -0800, (SalMX70) wrote:

The thing I don't understand is if people actually have such low
standards that they think that Bose Acousticmass systems sound good,

'Nuff said.

That is only half the explanation. There are lots of other less expensive
speaker systems that sound just as good, or bad, as bose. Why don't they
sell in huge numbers too? It's all about the clever advertising.

Of course. But if such people took a moment to listen carefully, all
the advertising in the world would be for nought.

Kal

In all fairness (to the customer, that is), the Bose systems do sound pretty
good (as compared to many awful products), and they look classy and don't
clash with your average upper middle class household. It may be literally
true that while Bose isn't giving such customers what they deserve or
charging them what their products (per their build quality) merit, they do
at least give most of their customers what they want. I wouldn't personally
pay a dime for such a system and if a friend asked I'd point out
alternatives, but I don't smirk or get peeved when I see someone satisfied
with a Bose sound system.



"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:25:23 -0500, Alex Rodriguez
wrote:

In article ,
says...


On 28 Jan 2004 19:40:45 -0800, (SalMX70) wrote:

The thing I don't understand is if people actually have such low
standards that they think that Bose Acousticmass systems sound good,

'Nuff said.

That is only half the explanation. There are lots of other less
expensive
speaker systems that sound just as good, or bad, as bose. Why don't they
sell in huge numbers too? It's all about the clever advertising.

Of course. But if such people took a moment to listen carefully, all
the advertising in the world would be for nought.

Kal

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 14:46:30 -0500, "poster_boy"
wrote:

In all fairness (to the customer, that is), the Bose systems do sound pretty
good (as compared to many awful products), and they look classy and don't
clash with your average upper middle class household. It may be literally
true that while Bose isn't giving such customers what they deserve or
charging them what their products (per their build quality) merit, they do
at least give most of their customers what they want. I wouldn't personally
pay a dime for such a system and if a friend asked I'd point out
alternatives, but I don't smirk or get peeved when I see someone satisfied
with a Bose sound system.

All true. One has to admire Bose's success in the market as something
of an accomplishment.

Kal






"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:25:23 -0500, Alex Rodriguez
wrote:

In article ,
says...


On 28 Jan 2004 19:40:45 -0800, (SalMX70) wrote:

The thing I don't understand is if people actually have such low
standards that they think that Bose Acousticmass systems sound good,

'Nuff said.

That is only half the explanation. There are lots of other less
expensive
speaker systems that sound just as good, or bad, as bose. Why don't they
sell in huge numbers too? It's all about the clever advertising.

Of course. But if such people took a moment to listen carefully, all
the advertising in the world would be for nought.

Kal

True. I happen to actually like Bose in the car. But in the car, their
compromise engineering seems to work quite well. After all, the
environment of a car for hi fi audio is a massive compromise in itself.

CD

poster_boy wrote:

In all fairness (to the customer, that is), the Bose systems do sound pretty
good (as compared to many awful products), and they look classy and don't
clash with your average upper middle class household. It may be literally
true that while Bose isn't giving such customers what they deserve or
charging them what their products (per their build quality) merit, they do
at least give most of their customers what they want. I wouldn't personally
pay a dime for such a system and if a friend asked I'd point out
alternatives, but I don't smirk or get peeved when I see someone satisfied
with a Bose sound system.



"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:25:23 -0500, Alex Rodriguez
wrote:


In article ,

says...


On 28 Jan 2004 19:40:45 -0800, (SalMX70) wrote:


The thing I don't understand is if people actually have such low
standards that they think that Bose Acousticmass systems sound good,

'Nuff said.

That is only half the explanation. There are lots of other less

expensive

speaker systems that sound just as good, or bad, as bose. Why don't they
sell in huge numbers too? It's all about the clever advertising.

Of course. But if such people took a moment to listen carefully, all
the advertising in the world would be for nought.

Kal

"Alex Rodriguez" wrote in message
...
: In article ,
: says...
:
:
: The thing I don't understand is if people actually have such low
: standards that they think that Bose Acousticmass systems sound good,
: and if very small satellite speakers are very important to them, they
: why don't they buy something like the KLH HTA6108 7 piece home theater
: speaker system and save themselves like a G?
: KLH speakers aren't exactly the best speakers, but with KLH speakers,
: you actually get what you paid for.
: The sub in the KLH system has a frequency response of 45-180 hz and a
: has a 6 1/2 inch woofer, a 50 watt amp, and a crossover at the proper
: frequency.
: The tiny satellite speakers in the KLH system actually have 2
: different driver elements per satellite unlike the Bose systems which
: have 2 identical driver elements as I understand.
: The KLH system has a 2-3/8" fiber-cone midwoofer, and a 5/8"
: ferrofluid-cooled polycarbonate dome tweeter in each satellite
: speaker, and thus the satellites have a frequency response of
: 90hz-20,000hz.
: Here's a link.
: http://www.amazing-bargains.com/best...ter-speaker/6-
: piece-home-theater-speaker-system-w-2-way-satell-5820034.html
:
: When you compare the specs of one of the Bose Acousticmass systems at
: this link http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html to even the very
: cheapest sub/sat home theater systems(like the KLH system) that cost
: like $1,000 or more less than the Bose system, then it's not pretty at
: all.
:
: Advertising! Plus, the bose speakers are smaller than most other systems,
: so they are easy to integrate into a home.
: ------------
: Alex
:
==============================================
You didn't read a word he posted, did you?
===========================

"Alex Rodriguez" wrote in message
...
: In article , says...
:
:
: On 28 Jan 2004 19:40:45 -0800, (SalMX70) wrote:
:
: The thing I don't understand is if people actually have such low
: standards that they think that Bose Acousticmass systems sound good,
:
: 'Nuff said.
:
: That is only half the explanation. There are lots of other less expensive
: speaker systems that sound just as good, or bad, as bose. Why don't they
: sell in huge numbers too? It's all about the clever advertising.
: -------------
: Alex
:
====================
And that is ALL it is about!

A turd is still a turd, no matter how well promoted it is.

"poster_boy" wrote in message
.. .
: In all fairness (to the customer, that is), the Bose systems do sound pretty
: good (as compared to many awful products),

======================
But they ONLY sound "good" when compared to those awful products
=======================

: and they look classy and don't
: clash with your average upper middle class household.

====================
On that we disagree. I don't like their looks at all.
=======================

: It may be literally
: true that while Bose isn't giving such customers what they deserve or
: charging them what their products (per their build quality) merit, they do
: at least give most of their customers what they want.

=================================
Or what they THINK they want......until they actually hear a good system.
Then they cry a lot.
============================

: I wouldn't personally
: pay a dime for such a system and if a friend asked I'd point out
: alternatives, but I don't smirk or get peeved when I see someone satisfied
: with a Bose sound system.
:

========================
I pity them. One day they will hear a good system and the reality of their mistake
will dawn on them.
=========================

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 20:26:51 GMT, Codifus
wrote:

True. I happen to actually like Bose in the car. But in the car, their
compromise engineering seems to work quite well. After all, the
environment of a car for hi fi audio is a massive compromise in itself.

Amen. I live with a factory Bose system in my car and it is entirely
sufficient for the application.

Kal



CD

poster_boy wrote:

In all fairness (to the customer, that is), the Bose systems do sound pretty
good (as compared to many awful products), and they look classy and don't
clash with your average upper middle class household. It may be literally
true that while Bose isn't giving such customers what they deserve or
charging them what their products (per their build quality) merit, they do
at least give most of their customers what they want. I wouldn't personally
pay a dime for such a system and if a friend asked I'd point out
alternatives, but I don't smirk or get peeved when I see someone satisfied
with a Bose sound system.



"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:25:23 -0500, Alex Rodriguez
wrote:


In article ,

says...


On 28 Jan 2004 19:40:45 -0800, (SalMX70) wrote:


The thing I don't understand is if people actually have such low
standards that they think that Bose Acousticmass systems sound good,

'Nuff said.

That is only half the explanation. There are lots of other less

expensive

speaker systems that sound just as good, or bad, as bose. Why don't they
sell in huge numbers too? It's all about the clever advertising.

Of course. But if such people took a moment to listen carefully, all
the advertising in the world would be for nought.

Kal

In article ,
says...
"Alex Rodriguez" wrote in message
.. .
: In article , says...
: On 28 Jan 2004 19:40:45 -0800, (SalMX70) wrote:
: The thing I don't understand is if people actually have such low
: standards that they think that Bose Acousticmass systems sound good,
: 'Nuff said.
: That is only half the explanation. There are lots of other less expensive
: speaker systems that sound just as good, or bad, as bose. Why don't they
: sell in huge numbers too? It's all about the clever advertising.
And that is ALL it is about!
A turd is still a turd, no matter how well promoted it is.

True, but if you put it in a pretty package and advertise how nice
it is, people will buy. Bose is proof of that.
-------------
Alex

In article ,
says...
True. I happen to actually like Bose in the car. But in the car, their
compromise engineering seems to work quite well. After all, the
environment of a car for hi fi audio is a massive compromise in itself.

Compared to the truly lousy stuff car companies use to put in cars, Bose
is an upgrade. Unfortuately Bose uses lousy materials and their speakers
fail relatively quickly. A decent after market speaker will out last
Bose car speakers.
-----------------
Alex

Richard C. wrote:

========================
I pity them. One day they will hear a good system and the reality of their mistake
will dawn on them.
=========================

Have you seen the new Magnepan HT system? $300 a pair for the speakers.
$900 for a 5.0 setup - and high hideability(even comes with a piano hinge
type assembly on it to move it flat against the wall then not in use).

I just ran across the info myself - go to Magnepan's site and click
on "New From Magnepan" on the main page. Then prepare to drool.

High W.A.F. as well. Get a whole HT setup done right for about $2000.
($400 for a sub and ~$700 for a 4 ohm capable receiver)

This, btw, was a direct response to Martin Logan's Planar offerings.
They dropped the price and also made a budget system. Heh.

Alex Rodriguez wrote:

In article ,
says...

True. I happen to actually like Bose in the car. But in the car, their
compromise engineering seems to work quite well. After all, the
environment of a car for hi fi audio is a massive compromise in itself.


Compared to the truly lousy stuff car companies use to put in cars, Bose
is an upgrade. Unfortuately Bose uses lousy materials and their speakers
fail relatively quickly. A decent after market speaker will out last
Bose car speakers.

Amen to that. Kenwood, for instance, sells two models of speakers - one
is about $10 more than the other and is much better quality. They both
look identical. The sound is stunning. 7 years after I bought mine, they
still sounded like new, while my sister's factory Bose system sounded
like a clock radio. At $80-90 a pair, it's an amazingly cheap audio upgrade.

Codifus wrote:



True. I happen to actually like Bose in the car. But in the car, their
compromise engineering seems to work quite well. After all, the
environment of a car for hi fi audio is a massive compromise in itself.

CD

Actually give the environment (auto companies; costs; engineering challenges)
I'd say that Bose engages in something closer to autosound
optimization-engineering in that their systems have fewer compromises in sound
tnan the others.

Alex Rodriguez wrote:



n article ,
says...
True. I happen to actually like Bose in the car. But in the car, their
compromise engineering seems to work quite well. After all, the
environment of a car for hi fi audio is a massive compromise in itself.

Compared to the truly lousy stuff car companies use to put in cars, Bose
is an upgrade. Unfortuately Bose uses lousy materials and their speakers
fail relatively quickly. A decent after market speaker will out last
Bose car speakers.
-----------------
Alex


This is simply not true. Aftermarket systems/speakers are less reliable than
OEM engineered products. While it may be true that one can easily blow-up OEM
speakers with high-powered aftermarket amplification in-appropriately appled,
OEM systems on the whole (premium or otherwise) are more durable and reliable
than after-market products.

It's quite simple really. Bose has successfully tapped into the largest
potential market for home audio equipment in the world. The one that could
care less about how it sounds. Because this market is basically insecure
about the category to begin with, the ads help remind them how smart they
were to have bought the brand. If you study the ads carefully, they are as
much about helping those who have already bought continue to justify their
purchase as they are compelling more insecure drones to buy it for the first
time. The tidy form factors don't hurt with the wife acceptance factor
either.





"Richard C." wrote in message
. ..

"Alex Rodriguez" wrote in message
...
: In article ,

: says...
:
:
: The thing I don't understand is if people actually have such low
: standards that they think that Bose Acousticmass systems sound good,
: and if very small satellite speakers are very important to them, they
: why don't they buy something like the KLH HTA6108 7 piece home theater
: speaker system and save themselves like a G?
: KLH speakers aren't exactly the best speakers, but with KLH speakers,
: you actually get what you paid for.
: The sub in the KLH system has a frequency response of 45-180 hz and a
: has a 6 1/2 inch woofer, a 50 watt amp, and a crossover at the proper
: frequency.
: The tiny satellite speakers in the KLH system actually have 2
: different driver elements per satellite unlike the Bose systems which
: have 2 identical driver elements as I understand.
: The KLH system has a 2-3/8" fiber-cone midwoofer, and a 5/8"
: ferrofluid-cooled polycarbonate dome tweeter in each satellite
: speaker, and thus the satellites have a frequency response of
: 90hz-20,000hz.
: Here's a link.
:
http://www.amazing-bargains.com/best...heater-speaker
/6-
: piece-home-theater-speaker-system-w-2-way-satell-5820034.html
:
: When you compare the specs of one of the Bose Acousticmass systems at
: this link http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html to even the very
: cheapest sub/sat home theater systems(like the KLH system) that cost
: like $1,000 or more less than the Bose system, then it's not pretty at
: all.
:
: Advertising! Plus, the bose speakers are smaller than most other
systems,
: so they are easy to integrate into a home.
: ------------
: Alex
:
==============================================
You didn't read a word he posted, did you?
===========================

John Caldwell wrote:
It's quite simple really. Bose has successfully tapped into the largest
potential market for home audio equipment in the world. The one that could
care less about how it sounds. Because this market is basically insecure
about the category to begin with, the ads help remind them how smart they
were to have bought the brand. If you study the ads carefully, they are as
much about helping those who have already bought continue to justify their
purchase as they are compelling more insecure drones to buy it for the first
time. The tidy form factors don't hurt with the wife acceptance factor
either.


The reason is similar to why Windows sells so well. It's "good enough"
for undiscerning use, and heavily marketed.





"Richard C." wrote in message
. ..

"Alex Rodriguez" wrote in message
. ..
: In article ,



: says...
:
:
: The thing I don't understand is if people actually have such low
: standards that they think that Bose Acousticmass systems sound good,
: and if very small satellite speakers are very important to them, they
: why don't they buy something like the KLH HTA6108 7 piece home theater
: speaker system and save themselves like a G?
: KLH speakers aren't exactly the best speakers, but with KLH speakers,
: you actually get what you paid for.
: The sub in the KLH system has a frequency response of 45-180 hz and a
: has a 6 1/2 inch woofer, a 50 watt amp, and a crossover at the proper
: frequency.
: The tiny satellite speakers in the KLH system actually have 2
: different driver elements per satellite unlike the Bose systems which
: have 2 identical driver elements as I understand.
: The KLH system has a 2-3/8" fiber-cone midwoofer, and a 5/8"
: ferrofluid-cooled polycarbonate dome tweeter in each satellite
: speaker, and thus the satellites have a frequency response of
: 90hz-20,000hz.
: Here's a link.
:
http://www.amazing-bargains.com/best...heater-speaker

/6-

: piece-home-theater-speaker-system-w-2-way-satell-5820034.html
:
: When you compare the specs of one of the Bose Acousticmass systems at
: this link http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html to even the very
: cheapest sub/sat home theater systems(like the KLH system) that cost
: like $1,000 or more less than the Bose system, then it's not pretty at
: all.
:
: Advertising! Plus, the bose speakers are smaller than most other

systems,

: so they are easy to integrate into a home.
: ------------
: Alex
:
==============================================
You didn't read a word he posted, did you?
===========================

CJT said:

The reason is similar to why Windows sells so well. It's "good enough"
for undiscerning use, and heavily marketed.

That is exceedingly dumb. That's like saying gasoline is widely used
because people don't know you can buy a diesel automobile.

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:25:18 -0800, John Caldwell wrote:
It's quite simple really. Bose has successfully tapped into the largest
potential market for home audio equipment in the world. The one that could
care less about how it sounds. Because this market is basically insecure
couldn't care less. *couldn't* care less.

To say that they "could care less how it sounds" means that they are capable
of caring less, that they in fact do care.
about the category to begin with, the ads help remind them how smart they
were to have bought the brand. If you study the ads carefully, they are as
much about helping those who have already bought continue to justify their
purchase as they are compelling more insecure drones to buy it for the first
time. The tidy form factors don't hurt with the wife acceptance factor
either.

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:54:55 GMT, CJT wrote:
John Caldwell wrote:
It's quite simple really. Bose has successfully tapped into the largest
potential market for home audio equipment in the world. The one that could
care less about how it sounds. Because this market is basically insecure
about the category to begin with, the ads help remind them how smart they
were to have bought the brand. If you study the ads carefully, they are as
much about helping those who have already bought continue to justify their
purchase as they are compelling more insecure drones to buy it for the first
time. The tidy form factors don't hurt with the wife acceptance factor
either.


The reason is similar to why Windows sells so well. It's "good enough"
for undiscerning use, and heavily marketed.

And anybody who markets a competing product will be run out of business.

George M. Middius wrote:


CJT said:


The reason is similar to why Windows sells so well. It's "good enough"
for undiscerning use, and heavily marketed.


That is exceedingly dumb. That's like saying gasoline is widely used
because people don't know you can buy a diesel automobile.

That actually is true as well. Most people don't. Take the new
Toyota Pruis. The VW Golf with the TDI engine gets better mileage.
Better in fact, than a Geo Metro did - but it was never marketed as
the highest MPG vehicle in the U.S.

They sold a LOT of Geo Metros with that "highest MPG in the U.S."
claim, despite it being completely false.

Joseph Oberlander said:

That is exceedingly dumb. That's like saying gasoline is widely used
because people don't know you can buy a diesel automobile.

That actually is true as well. Most people don't.

I've never met a single adult in this country who believed there are
no diesel automobiles. I believe you're pulling this claim from a
sunshine-free zone.

Take the new
Toyota Pruis. The VW Golf with the TDI engine gets better mileage.
Better in fact, than a Geo Metro did - but it was never marketed as
the highest MPG vehicle in the U.S.

Why are you changing the subject? Do you think the few people who buy
diesel cars do so for the gas mileage? Do you really not know what the
big impediment is for most of us who don't buy diesel cars?

They sold a LOT of Geo Metros with that "highest MPG in the U.S."
claim, despite it being completely false.

You're lost in the deluge again. Enjoy your rant.

My bad. You are correct. They couldn't care less.
About how it sounds or boards like this.

John Caldwell

"TCS" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 21:25:18 -0800, John Caldwell
wrote:
It's quite simple really. Bose has successfully tapped into the largest
potential market for home audio equipment in the world. The one that
could
care less about how it sounds. Because this market is basically insecure
couldn't care less. *couldn't* care less.

To say that they "could care less how it sounds" means that they are
capable
of caring less, that they in fact do care.
about the category to begin with, the ads help remind them how smart they
were to have bought the brand. If you study the ads carefully, they are
as
much about helping those who have already bought continue to justify
their
purchase as they are compelling more insecure drones to buy it for the
first
time. The tidy form factors don't hurt with the wife acceptance factor
either.

George M. Middius wrote:


Joseph Oberlander said:


That is exceedingly dumb. That's like saying gasoline is widely used
because people don't know you can buy a diesel automobile.

That actually is true as well. Most people don't.


I've never met a single adult in this country who believed there are
no diesel automobiles. I believe you're pulling this claim from a
sunshine-free zone.

There are very few diesel cars out there. Tons of trucks, but
the last time you saw a diesel midsize family sedan was?

alMX70 wrote:

The thing I don't understand is if people actually have such low
standards that they think that Bose Acousticmass systems
sound good

Truth is, many people simply don't care about narrow hobbies
that fire the hobbyists and are even turned off by the snobbishness,
jargon, and pushiness they may encounter.

The way audiophiles have raved about or ranted against wires, green
pens, tubes, etc., you could forgive an average person for concluding
this is was a bunch of kooks.

Anyway, he have other concerns, and Bose may just fit the mix he is
looking for.

I am an audiophile but I decorate my apartment with simple posters
and use basic Wal-Mart cookware. My friends who are passionate
about art or cooking feel the same way about me as I do about their
stereo systems.

We may know how to get good sound, but we cannot make a good
case that everyone should care about it as much as we do.

Obie backpedals.

That is exceedingly dumb. That's like saying gasoline is widely used
because people don't know you can buy a diesel automobile.

That actually is true as well. Most people don't.


I've never met a single adult in this country who believed there are
no diesel automobiles. I believe you're pulling this claim from a
sunshine-free zone.

There are very few diesel cars out there. Tons of trucks, but
the last time you saw a diesel midsize family sedan was?

Don't "debating-trade" your way out of this one. You said "people
don't know you can buy a diesel automobile." Prove it. You didn't say
people don't buy diesels. Two entirely different propositions.

The reason is similar to why Windows sells so well. It's "good enough"
for undiscerning use, and heavily marketed.

While I agree with your "good enough" characterization, there is an
important difference. Microsoft has a true monopoly on PC operating systems
and no competitors. Unless you build your own box or buy Apple, Windows
comes pre-installed on the computer. (And how many other OS's are available
for Apple?) Certainly there are numerous flavors of Unix and Linux
available, but for average Joe/Jane that's not a realistic option. You
really have to be a systems kind of person to get an alternative OS up and
running.

The last test of monopolistic behavior is price. In an industry where
everything has become less expensive, the cost of the OS has steadily crept
upward. My copy of DOS 1.1 (dating myself) was $50, XP runs $200. My new
computer costs half as much as my first.

By comparison, Bose has many viable competitors. But in many retail
situations (From Sam's Club to Best Buy), Bose appears to be the high end.
They advertise in publications other than those specific to home theatre and
music, thereby getting market penetration/recognition their competitors
cannot match (or afford). They are certainly the 800 pound gorilla of the
speaker trade (I doubt their 3 closest competitors can equal their sales
volume). Their marketing model reflects capitalism at its best and worst.
But at least the consumer isn't stuck with Bose. There are many attractive
alternatives in the marketplace and it doesn't take a systems engineer to
get them up and running.

R / John

: and they look classy and don't
: clash with your average upper middle class household.

====================
On that we disagree. I don't like their looks at all.
=======================

I have several friends who have Bose. The deal-maker on their buying
decision was the small size of the satellites. A lot of wives don't like
the intrusion speakers make on the decor. The stacked cubes bring peace to
the family.

(Been there and done that. The wife wasn't really happy with the
"compromise" NHT superzeros ... she wanted them hidden behind cabinet doors
etc. Well, I won that one. Of course I'm supporting her three horses with
one on the way ... )

=================================
Or what they THINK they want......until they actually hear a good system.
Then they cry a lot.
============================

Few ever do. Blissful ignorance is their lot.

R / John

John Carrier said:

The reason is similar to why Windows sells so well. It's "good enough"
for undiscerning use, and heavily marketed.

Certainly there are numerous flavors of Unix and Linux
available, but for average Joe/Jane that's not a realistic option.

In this case, "average" means 99% of the population.

really have to be a systems kind of person to get an alternative OS up and
running.

That's the nub. Similarly, mostly true music nuts (and equipment
geeks) are the buyers of systems costing over $20,000. I know several
well-to-do people who think nothing of plunking down $60K for a Lexus
or BMW but think of a home audio system as just another appliance. And
not because they don't spend time in their beautiful homes.

George M. Middius wrote:


Obie backpedals.


That is exceedingly dumb. That's like saying gasoline is widely used
because people don't know you can buy a diesel automobile.

That actually is true as well. Most people don't.


I've never met a single adult in this country who believed there are
no diesel automobiles. I believe you're pulling this claim from a
sunshine-free zone.

There are very few diesel cars out there. Tons of trucks, but
the last time you saw a diesel midsize family sedan was?


Don't "debating-trade" your way out of this one. You said "people
don't know you can buy a diesel automobile." Prove it. You didn't say
people don't buy diesels. Two entirely different propositions.

I asked my sister - and she said "There are diesel cars still made?"
Then she thought and realized that Mercedes probably makes them.
Funny thing is, Mercedes doesn't anymore. Lol.

She's a pretty typical person, IMO.

John Carrier wrote:

The reason is similar to why Windows sells so well. It's "good enough"
for undiscerning use, and heavily marketed.


While I agree with your "good enough" characterization, there is an
important difference. Microsoft has a true monopoly on PC operating systems
and no competitors. Unless you build your own box or buy Apple, Windows
comes pre-installed on the computer. (And how many other OS's are available
for Apple?)

Linux. Buy box with Redhat in it. Install. Simple as that. It's no
longer a kludge-fest it once was.

The last test of monopolistic behavior is price. In an industry where
everything has become less expensive, the cost of the OS has steadily crept
upward. My copy of DOS 1.1 (dating myself) was $50, XP runs $200. My new
computer costs half as much as my first.

So - move to unix already. Say no to their schemes.

John Carrier wrote:

: and they look classy and don't
: clash with your average upper middle class household.

====================
On that we disagree. I don't like their looks at all.
=======================


I have several friends who have Bose. The deal-maker on their buying
decision was the small size of the satellites. A lot of wives don't like
the intrusion speakers make on the decor. The stacked cubes bring peace to
the family.

(Been there and done that. The wife wasn't really happy with the
"compromise" NHT superzeros ... she wanted them hidden behind cabinet doors
etc. Well, I won that one. Of course I'm supporting her three horses with
one on the way ... )

The simple way to crush Bose and get better WAF is to look at the KEF
HT system. The cubic volume of the cabinets is a bit larger than the
Bose microcubes, but the visual impact is smaller due to the rounded edges
***AND*** the integrated mounts.

Just mention that the Bose require mounts to place on the walls. This
adds a lot to the visual size. The KEF - a small swivel mount in the
back.

I try to tell everyone who wants a Bose system about them. No one
that has listened and looked at the KEF system has bought Bose.
At least not that I know of. Superior sound and looks.

Joseph Oberlander said:

That is exceedingly dumb. That's like saying gasoline is widely used
because people don't know you can buy a diesel automobile.

That actually is true as well. Most people don't.


I've never met a single adult in this country who believed there are
no diesel automobiles. I believe you're pulling this claim from a
sunshine-free zone.

There are very few diesel cars out there. Tons of trucks, but
the last time you saw a diesel midsize family sedan was?


Don't "debating-trade" your way out of this one. You said "people
don't know you can buy a diesel automobile." Prove it. You didn't say
people don't buy diesels. Two entirely different propositions.

I asked my sister - and she said "There are diesel cars still made?"

Oh, when your sister speaks, she's speaking for "most people"?
With an oracle of such wisdom in the family, your clan should be
famous.

Then she thought and realized that Mercedes probably makes them.
Funny thing is, Mercedes doesn't anymore. Lol.

Now you're laughing at your sister?

She's a pretty typical person, IMO.

Oh, so that's how you determine what "most people" know -- you ask
one single, solitary individual who, in your judgment and using
unknown criteria, is "pretty typical".

You're hip-deep in "debating trade" garbage. Better start bailing.

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 13:26:22 -0500, George M. Middius
wrote:



Joseph Oberlander said:

That is exceedingly dumb. That's like saying gasoline is widely used
because people don't know you can buy a diesel automobile.

That actually is true as well. Most people don't.


I've never met a single adult in this country who believed there are
no diesel automobiles. I believe you're pulling this claim from a
sunshine-free zone.

There are very few diesel cars out there. Tons of trucks, but
the last time you saw a diesel midsize family sedan was?


Don't "debating-trade" your way out of this one. You said "people
don't know you can buy a diesel automobile." Prove it. You didn't say
people don't buy diesels. Two entirely different propositions.

I asked my sister - and she said "There are diesel cars still made?"

Oh, when your sister speaks, she's speaking for "most people"?
With an oracle of such wisdom in the family, your clan should be
famous.

Then she thought and realized that Mercedes probably makes them.
Funny thing is, Mercedes doesn't anymore. Lol.

Actually, as of the 2004 model year, this is incorrect.

http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e...e000216140.cfm

There *was* a hiatus of 2000 - 2003 while they developed their new
diesel motor. The last diesel that they made was in 1999.

Now you're laughing at your sister?

She's a pretty typical person, IMO.

Oh, so that's how you determine what "most people" know -- you ask
one single, solitary individual who, in your judgment and using
unknown criteria, is "pretty typical".

You're hip-deep in "debating trade" garbage. Better start bailing.

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 12:51:27 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

Then she thought and realized that Mercedes probably makes them.
Funny thing is, Mercedes doesn't anymore. Lol.

Actually, as of the 2004 model year, this is incorrect.

http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e...e000216140.cfm

There *was* a hiatus of 2000 - 2003 while they developed their new
diesel motor. The last diesel that they made was in 1999.

And I should note that as far as I know, diesels are available in
Europe already.