Shure SM-58 Fast Track Pro Ableton 5


Is it normal that I have to turn the gain for my mic input all the way
maxed out to get a half decent signal level for tracking vocals?


Also, is there a way to get the headphone level louder from the FTP? I

have it up all the way with the outputs of Live almost clipping and it
doens't seem loud enough for accurate monitoring at all, couldn't see
it working very well in a Live DJ situation..


Am I missing something here and what are some things to check? When I
use Live with my ****ty onboard sound card the levels are plenty loud
coming out of Live (haven't tried a mic in to ****ty soundcard don't
have a mic plug that goes to 1/8").


On that note, I'm plugging the SM58 straight into the first XLR on the
FTP, any chance I'd get a louder signal by going into the FTP with 1/4"
instead of XLR? (that would kinda defeat the purpose of having an XLR
input..)


Thanks,


STRATEGY

STRATEGY wrote:

Is it normal that I have to turn the gain for my mic input all the way
maxed out to get a half decent signal level for tracking vocals?

This is such a frequently asked question that it should be in the FAQ.
The answer is apparently yes. But there are some considerations:

1. Most people don't understand what a "decent signal level" is and
expect that if the meter doesn't get very close to the peak a good part
of the time, there's something wrong with either their setup or their
technique. A decent signal level for a vocal track is 10 dB below that.
If you put a piece of tape over the top 10 dB of your meter, does that
change your perception?

2. The combination of just barely enough gain in most mic preamps
(50-60 dB) with a moderately insensitive A/D converter means that you
often DO need all the gain you have in order to hit digital full scale
level.

3. To go along with #2, mics today don't have the high sensitivity that
a high end condenser mic of 25 years ago had. This is partially in
response to a fomrer complaint of "I have to turn the gain down too
far or I clip the input of my mic preamp" and also that we tend to work
mics closer than we used to, particularly a mic like an SM58. Live, you
practically have it in your mouth, but in the studio, you might be
inclined to back off a foot or so because that's how it's done. The
inverse square law kicks in and for a given loudness of the voice, the
mic's output is substantially lower when you move from 2 inches to a
foot, or even 6 inches.

Also, is there a way to get the headphone level louder from the FTP? I

Assuming you're turned it up all the way, no. You can use an outboard
amplifier for your headphones, or you can try a different type of
headphone. Headphones vary widely in both their impedance (which
affects the amount of power that an ampllifier can deliver to the
drivers) and the sensitivity. But maybe you should do something else so
that you don't need the headphones so loud. Your ears have to last the
rest of your life. If you're already hard of hearing, you're only
making it worse by listening too loud.

have it up all the way with the outputs of Live almost clipping and it
doens't seem loud enough for accurate monitoring at all, couldn't see
it working very well in a Live DJ situation..

DJ work is kind of a special application because things are just so
damn loud all over. You need a headphone amplifier and a backup career.


On that note, I'm plugging the SM58 straight into the first XLR on the
FTP, any chance I'd get a louder signal by going into the FTP with 1/4"
instead of XLR?

No chance at all. An outboard mic preamp connected to the 1/4" line
input might get you more level, but you should really take a good look
at your total gain management to see where the problem is, if any.

On 8 Mar 2006 05:29:48 -0800, "STRATEGY"
wrote:

Just gibbering out of interest here.

Here is my take:

Your card:

Mic Inputs (A/D)
Input Impedance 2.7k Ohms unbalanced, 5.4k Ohms balanced
Maximum Input Level from +24dBu @ min gain, pad on to -40dBu @ max
gain, no pad
Pad causes -20dB loss !!!!

Shure SM58

Power Level: -56.0 dB
Impedance: Rated impedance is 150 (300 actual) for connection to
microphone inputs rated low impedance

So the SM58 is 16dB below the _max_ low level with no Pad. This may be
the one.

I have no idea about the actual card, but if you have Pad ON, you will
lose a lot of level. This is try #1.

You are also losing a little because of the difference between the 300
Ohm imp of the mic vs the 5.4K Ohm of the card's input.
- this will cause lower level and a muffled, sound, if there
is a problem.
- However the card is aimed at lo imp mics.
- IIRC mixers used to have 1K inputs for 300 Ohm mics.
things have changed a bit (noise levels etc).
- So this sounds as if it's within bounds.

With your ****ty soundcard, chances are that a Mic will not work,
unless you have a preamp, anyway.

You have played pre-recorded stuff, I assume. When you say levels are
low, are you talking the same music that you play from a file (apples
with apples), or trying to work with the Mic, which is already too
quiet, and then comparing it with a wav file that
you are playing through your soundcard?

ALSO
Again, your card:
Working Range 32 to 600 ohms
If you have 8 Ohm headphones, there will be trouble. You will get not
only a low, but probably a "thin" sound, with no bass.

Shure SM-58 Fast Track Pro Ableton 5


Is it normal that I have to turn the gain for my mic input all the way
maxed out to get a half decent signal level for tracking vocals?


Also, is there a way to get the headphone level louder from the FTP? I

have it up all the way with the outputs of Live almost clipping and it
doens't seem loud enough for accurate monitoring at all, couldn't see
it working very well in a Live DJ situation..


Am I missing something here and what are some things to check? When I
use Live with my ****ty onboard sound card the levels are plenty loud
coming out of Live (haven't tried a mic in to ****ty soundcard don't
have a mic plug that goes to 1/8").


On that note, I'm plugging the SM58 straight into the first XLR on the
FTP, any chance I'd get a louder signal by going into the FTP with 1/4"
instead of XLR? (that would kinda defeat the purpose of having an XLR
input..)


Thanks,


STRATEGY