Any of you using these amp modeling boxes? I'm not at all familiar with the
current generation of modeling gear. Do they make a useful addition to a
studio? Any testimonials?

Thanks

Floyd

"Floyd" wrote in message
news:0001HW.C02D26680018331620B2AD00@news-server...
Any of you using these amp modeling boxes? I'm not at all familiar with
the
current generation of modeling gear. Do they make a useful addition to a
studio? Any testimonials?

I assume you meant direct-to board sounds?
I've used some of 'em, and usually I don't much like them very much as is.
I'm more of a guitarist than an engineer but I do love to find good line
sounds. Here's my faves:

1. Tech 21, for instance the T30 amp and also gadgets like the Tri-AC pedal,
or PSA-1 (I think) rack pre. These give an absolutely great direct-to board
sound. A bit dry and midrangey, but excellent basis to work with.
They're not modelers though.

2. Native Instruments Guitar Rig (VST plugin) and mainly the speaker/mic
placement/style feature. This allows adding any cab sound to a recorded
guitar track if using Cubase or something.
(also includes modeled amps etc. but the speaker selection is where this
shines)

3. Behringer Ultra-G direct box - yeah, it's a cheap box but it has a cab
emulator that is dark and muddy but at least it does sound pretty much like
a cabinet, and sometimes very good to try, plus costs next to nothing. Not
to be used solely but as an addition to alredy preamped D/I modeler sound.

All the Line6 and POD etc. sounds I've ended up recording by miking the
sound after it's first ran thru speakers instead of direct to board.

Just my 2c :-)

I had a POD for a while. I traded it away after a few months. Most
of the sounds were thin and I never found any that were better than an
SM-57 and a speaker.

Tom

wrote:
I had a POD for a while. I traded it away after a few months. Most
of the sounds were thin and I never found any that were better than an
SM-57 and a speaker.

I think you will hard to find anything, anywhere that sounds better on
electric guitar bass than an SM-57 and a speaker. At least, I've never heard
one.
--scott

Okay, sometimes a 635A and a speaker or a 421L and a speaker....
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Hi,

I use a Pod XT. It's a step up from the original Pod, and IMO an
excellent modeler. For studio work, I'd get the XT Pro. It's definitely
a very useful addition to a studio - unless your studio has a whole
slew of boutique guitar amplifiers. Sometimes you want a sound and
there's no other way to get close. Is it a Marshall or Fender or
whatever amp you're trying to model? No. But it can be pretty
convincing and, again, a very useful addition to a studio.

Dean

Hi,

I use a Pod XT. It's a step up from the original Pod, and IMO an
excellent modeler. For studio work, I'd get the XT Pro. It's definitely
a very useful addition to a studio - unless your studio has a whole
slew of boutique guitar amplifiers. Sometimes you want a sound and
there's no other way to get close. Is it a Marshall or Fender or
whatever amp you're trying to model? No. But it can be pretty
convincing and, again, a very useful addition to a studio.

Dean

I have a Pod 1.0 and a new Spider II and for a small home studio I
would say they are absolutely invaluable. The Modelling Vs Reality
arguments surrounding them are largely irrelevant to me because the
flexibility and variety they offer far outweighs petty niggles about
absolute accuracy. In my book they are never going to be 100% spot on
replications of the original, but as long as the tones are useable it
doesn't matter to me.

And there are so many ways to use (and abuse) them in a studio setting.
DI straight from the Pod (or whatever modeller), DI a guitar or bass
straight into your recorder and use the Pod in an effects loop or
insert, re-amp & mic, as a pre-amp into another piece of gear. You can
use them on pretty much any instrument or vocal if you're into
experimenting.

I admit this stuff isn't so relevant in a larger studio or on bigger
projects where you may have the money to buy or rent the real thing,
but again, in a small or home studio it can be very useful to have some
kind of modelling box handy.

For clean sounds I've gotten a lot of good mileage from the modeling in
the Boss GX700 & Boss VF1. For wide open overdriven sounds these sound
a bit cramped & lacking dynamics, but I've heard that same lack of
dynamic headroom out of other people's POD-like processors as well as a
lot of overdriven tube amps too.

Scott Fraser

Big Tim wrote:

The Modelling Vs Reality arguments surrounding them are largely
irrelevant to me because the flexibility and variety they offer far
outweighs petty niggles about absolute accuracy.


Hahaha. That is funny. Enjoy your pod.

Any testimonials?

The Vox Tonelab does a real nice job for not too much money. None of
these things will compete with a good tube amp -- but how many home
recordists can afford a whole roomful of such amps?

--
"Coloured and animated, the concerts and spectacles are as many
invitations to discover the universes of musicians and artists
who tint with happiness our reality."
To reach me reverse: moc(dot)xobop(at)ggestran

"Jonathan Roberts" wrote in message
...

The Vox Tonelab does a real nice job for not too much money. None of
these things will compete with a good tube amp -- but how many home
recordists can afford a whole roomful of such amps?

I don't know?

Does one really need a whole roomful of amps?

Armed with a single decent tube amp, a couple of pedals, and if you are
lucky enough to maybe have a couple of different guitars one can cover a
whole lot of ground.

If you are recording you don't need very large amps and that can certainly
help to keep the cost down. A little SF Fender Champ, an overdrive, a nice
distortion pedal, and an SM57 would cost a bit more than a cheap digital
modeler but it is the real thing for just a couple hundred more or so.

In article Vo3Of.332$wp.106@fed1read12,
"news.west.cox.net" wrote:

Does one really need a whole roomful of amps?

Certainly depends upon what you're trying to do. A good pro studio
though will have a selection, but to buy more than a couple of good
amps, not to mention great ones, is more than a lot of us can afford.

For my own music I could certainly use a good Vox and a Marshall in
addition to the old Fender Twin I actually have.

When you add in friends whom I work with, whose music can use the tones
from something like a Mesa Dual Rectifier ... in the absence of
modeling units (of which, again, I'd rank the Tonelab as the best) MY
budget is certainly blown.

--
"Coloured and animated, the concerts and spectacles are as many
invitations to discover the universes of musicians and artists
who tint with happiness our reality."
To reach me reverse: moc(dot)xobop(at)ggestran

Floyd wrote On 03/02/06 20:47,:
Any of you using these amp modeling boxes? I'm not at all familiar with the
current generation of modeling gear. Do they make a useful addition to a
studio? Any testimonials?

Thanks

Floyd


Okay, we all agree, the real deal can't be beat. Tubes rock, models well...

That said, it is no secret I use Line 6 gear and heartily endorse it with the following caveats...

First, as it took you an inordiante amount of time to create your sound with the real tube amp, do
not think you can just "dial in" a sound and make it work like magic. Think back. How much time did
you really spend creating "that sound", YOUR sound? If you're honest with yourself, you'll admit it
took hours and hours, over the course of months and months. You just don't think of it in those
terms because the tweaking was a little bit here and a little bit there over a great span of time.

The process is exactly the same in modelled amp land as it is in the real amp world. Patience is
required. Why one would think you can get "your" sound in a few minutes is beyond me. Yes, you can
dial in a good sound right off, but to hone it down to THAT sound takes time, just like I said above.

Every amp, whether modelled or not, is different. I don't care if they have consecutive serial
numbers, they're different. This is why you will have to tweak your modeller just like the real amp
you're trying to emulate.

Remember, modelling is also emulation. Repeat after me: eemmmuulllaaation. It emulates, does not
precisely, exactly, can't tell the difference, recreate your favourite amp. What it does do is give
you access, so to speak, to a whole lot of amp types you could not realistically afford. And it does
so fairly well.

I've used the Pod and the Pod XT varieties, as well as the Flextone II (which is a Pod 2.0), all
with great results and great sound. Is it the Marshall/Fender/Dumble, et al? No, it is an emulation
of an amp and works "like" the "named" amp. It is NOT a Marshall/Fender/Dumble and should not be
confused with the real versions.

All of that said, modellers are a great tool and worth the investment, if only to give you variety
in choices you have available to use, whether on stage or in the studio.

I hope this brings a little clarity to the amp modelling questions some might have.

--Fletch

Fletch wrote:

First, as it took you an inordiante amount of time to create your sound
with the real tube amp, do not think you can just "dial in" a sound and
make it work like magic. Think back. How much time did you really spend
creating "that sound", YOUR sound?

About 3 seconds with a good amp. Magic? I dunno, sometimes it's there,
sometimes it isn't. With a Pod or the like, it's never there.

Dr. Dolittle wrote On 03/03/06 14:16,:


Fletch wrote:

First, as it took you an inordiante amount of time to create your
sound with the real tube amp, do not think you can just "dial in" a
sound and make it work like magic. Think back. How much time did you
really spend creating "that sound", YOUR sound?


About 3 seconds with a good amp. Magic? I dunno, sometimes it's there,
sometimes it isn't. With a Pod or the like, it's never there.


That is your opinion, and you're entitled to it. I've worked with these for a number of years and I
disagree, obviously, with your conclusions.

No, it isn't a TUBE amp. That's not the question or the argument.

The original question was about viability of a modeller as an alternative. And it is a viable
alternative. You just have to know how to use the tool.

As the saying goes:

It is a poor musician who blames his instrument (tools).

--Fletch

Fletch wrote:

As the saying goes:

It is a poor musician who blames his instrument (tools).

--Fletch

Okay, let me hear how well you play, on a crecent wrench...


I play guitar. I use an amp. I love to play and I constantly love the
sounds I can make with the same old guitar, same ol' amp, same old stomp
boxes. I've been doing it for a long damn time. I tried the Pod. I
wanted to love it. It just ain't there. There is no magic. It doesn't
keep me interested. I got very bored after playing through it for a few
hours, and continued to try every setting there was, for weeks. Bored
silly.

The magic is what happens when the player gets in the grove, it might
not even by the best sound. Pod = no magic.

"Fletch" wrote:

Remember, modelling is also emulation. Repeat after me:
eemmmuulllaaation. It emulates, does not precisely, exactly, can't
tell the difference, recreate your favourite amp.

Yeah, but most of them emulate amps the way a rubber doll emulates a
woman. *Maybe* better than nothing in a pinch, but not particularly
satisfying.



What it does do is give you access, so to speak, to a whole lot of
amp types you could not realistically afford.

I think I've decided that I'd rather have a few really good tones than a
whole variety of weak sounds. I like the sound through a little Fender
Champ better than just about any emulator. That's obviously a
preference issue though, and others may choose differently.

I don't have an AC30 here so I can't get that sound. I wouldn't use a
Pod to fake it though. I'd bring in someone with an AC30 to do it.



And it does so fairly well.

See, this seems to be what it comes down to... one's individual
expectations of what's okay. Some people seem to consider some of the
emulators acceptable, others find the somewhat artificial nature of
their sound intolerable.

Recently I was at the controls while a guitarist was just noodling
around through a DI straight into Pro Tools. I dialled up an amp farm
just for ****s and giggles. At first he said "Cool! THAT'S more fun
than playing dry!" but after about five minutes he asked me to turn it
off. He found the artificial nature of the sound distracting -- he was
paying too much attention to what was wrong with the sound rather than
just concentrating on playing.

Fletch is right. An emulator will NOT replace real amps in a real room
with a real mic. Whether or not any of them will be "good enough"
depends on *you*. You might be satisfied, or like me, you might just
find them annoying (like a cheap reverb).

Like everything else, you gotta go listen for yourself.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

Lorin David Schultz wrote:
"Fletch" wrote:

Remember, modelling is also emulation. Repeat after me:
eemmmuulllaaation. It emulates, does not precisely, exactly, can't
tell the difference, recreate your favourite amp.

Yeah, but most of them emulate amps the way a rubber doll emulates a
woman. *Maybe* better than nothing in a pinch, but not particularly
satisfying.

If all you need is to look like you have a second passenger in your car,
the rubber doll is enough to let you into the HOV lane.

There are a lot of applications where it just needs to be seen from a
distance and be vaguely close enough. For lead guitar, yeah, the cabinet
simulators are just awful. But for rhythm guitar in a fairly dense mix,
nobody will ever notice. For backround tracks that are supposed to be
slipped under production voiceovers and for jingles, they're just fine.

The jingle guys really like the POD, because they like having the wide
variety of different tones. No, none of them sound like a real amp, but
most of the jingle guys are just trying to get the feel of something familiar
anyway.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:

There are a lot of applications where it just needs to be seen from a
distance and be vaguely close enough. For lead guitar, yeah, the cabinet
simulators are just awful. But for rhythm guitar in a fairly dense mix,
nobody will ever notice. For backround tracks that are supposed to be
slipped under production voiceovers and for jingles, they're just fine.

No one will ever noticed? I found this "wall of sound" for guitar
interesting at first, but it loses it's appeal rather quickly. This is
why a lot of modern rock guitar songs all sound the same.

Back in the day when Jimmy Page was laying down a track, it wasn't
quadrouplized to make it sound full. ONE guitar track sounded full. Hear
the difference? Damn right!

Back in the day when Jimmy Page was laying down a track, it wasn't
quadrouplized to make it sound full. ONE guitar track sounded full.
Hear
the difference? Damn right!

And, at least early on, it was one track of a 15 watt Supro, dimed. No
DSP, no compression, no modeled overdrive pedal, real dynamics. Oh, and
it was Jimmy Page.

Scott Fraser

On 3/4/06 7:01 AM, in article ,
"Dr. Dolittle" wrote:

No one will ever noticed? I found this "wall of sound" for guitar
interesting at first, but it loses it's appeal rather quickly. This is
why a lot of modern rock guitar songs all sound the same.

Back in the day when Jimmy Page was laying down a track, it wasn't
quadrouplized to make it sound full. ONE guitar track sounded full. Hear
the difference? Damn right!

I had a Line 6 AX2 for a couple of years. I ended up finding configuration
that I sort of liked and never using the rest. Even so, it was somehow
cold... Now I use a Fender Hot Rod and few pedals and I am very happy with
it. I wouldn't consider a modeling amp again.
But it depends on your purpose. Mine is to play in my band, and to record my
songs.

Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Lorin David Schultz wrote:
"Fletch" wrote:

Remember, modelling is also emulation. Repeat after me:
eemmmuulllaaation. It emulates, does not precisely, exactly, can't
tell the difference, recreate your favourite amp.

Yeah, but most of them emulate amps the way a rubber doll emulates a
woman. *Maybe* better than nothing in a pinch, but not particularly
satisfying.

If all you need is to look like you have a second passenger in your car,
the rubber doll is enough to let you into the HOV lane.

There are a lot of applications where it just needs to be seen from a
distance and be vaguely close enough. For lead guitar, yeah, the cabinet
simulators are just awful. But for rhythm guitar in a fairly dense mix,
nobody will ever notice. For backround tracks that are supposed to be
slipped under production voiceovers and for jingles, they're just fine.

The jingle guys really like the POD, because they like having the wide
variety of different tones. No, none of them sound like a real amp, but
most of the jingle guys are just trying to get the feel of something
familiar
anyway.
--scott

I'm putting a couple of sessions together for a guy, he sent me his
guitar/vocal demos & as a little pre-production as it were I added some Pod
guitars just to give him an idea. I gotta say I'm tempted to do the whole
thing with the Pod. It sounds pretty dang good. An easy way to get some
bouncing guitars tap tempo'd with dotted eigths in time with a pseudo Vox
tone etc. etc.

Okay so I'll probably track the stuff with some real amps...but I'm tempted.

--


http://www.putfile.com/mostlyslim




--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

amost wrote:

Okay so I'll probably track the stuff with some real amps...but I'm tempted.

See, this is when it starts getting to be evil. It's so easy to cut a corner,
and if you cut a corner, nobody will notice. But if you cut two corners,
maybe someone will, and three or four and everything becomes crap. It just
is so tempting to save a little time and trouble.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Floyd wrote:

Any of you using these amp modeling boxes? I'm not at all familiar with the
current generation of modeling gear. Do they make a useful addition to a
studio? Any testimonials?

Thanks

Floyd

I like them more as a front end processor for an amp rather than direct
recording. To me, running them through a halfassed amp is still better
than direct. If it's a bedroom studio, put the amp in a closet with
heavy blankets over it so your neighbors won't hate you.

If you're trying to be a rock God resting your talent within your
sound then no, the things won't do at all because you lose some of
the nuance that makes the very best of guitar. On the other hand, if
you are mixing guitar as part of the total sound and vocals are out
front, or if you are doing sound track or commercial work then
something like the Pod is a true God send.

I am not a great guitarist by any means and my time in for finding a
sound is quite low. I can get what I need fast but getting something
that stands out amongst the mass of other guitar sounds is something
few of us can really do. That is where the Pod steps in. You can dial
in a sound that is good enough for most things in a flat instance and
move on.

I have a Pod 2.0 that does all I need it to do. I also have a J station
that I don't like as much and a v-amp that is also good but not as
good as the Pod. I have used the amp farm plug in with less luck and I
have used the a line6 amp with modeling that was great. So, I conclude
that Line6 stuff is a few steps ahead of most of that line of toys but
you can see the limit to my comparison.

Original Pods are cheap on ebay and durable so a used one is probably
safe. For the price of about $100 ish it is certainly worth having one
around to play with.

"Danny T" wrote in message
oups.com...
If you're trying to be a rock God resting your talent within your
sound then no, the things won't do at all because you lose some of
the nuance that makes the very best of guitar. On the other hand, if
you are mixing guitar as part of the total sound and vocals are out
front, or if you are doing sound track or commercial work then
something like the Pod is a true God send.


Right on.
As much as I love.hate these things.... They work. I've had three of them &
you can definitely stick one in a track here & there and make it work.
--


http://www.putfile.com/mostlyslim




I am not a great guitarist by any means and my time in for finding a
sound is quite low. I can get what I need fast but getting something
that stands out amongst the mass of other guitar sounds is something
few of us can really do. That is where the Pod steps in. You can dial
in a sound that is good enough for most things in a flat instance and
move on.

I have a Pod 2.0 that does all I need it to do. I also have a J station
that I don't like as much and a v-amp that is also good but not as
good as the Pod. I have used the amp farm plug in with less luck and I
have used the a line6 amp with modeling that was great. So, I conclude
that Line6 stuff is a few steps ahead of most of that line of toys but
you can see the limit to my comparison.

Original Pods are cheap on ebay and durable so a used one is probably
safe. For the price of about $100 ish it is certainly worth having one
around to play with.

I use a Vox tonelab. I don't like the direct recording much but I run its
line out into the effects return of a THD Bivalve running with one or two
low power tubes (6K6) and then mic the result on a 1x12 cab. So there's a
variety of tones and the miced amp thing going on at a reasonable volume for
my environment, and I can always put higher power tubes into the Bivalve for
louder situations. My ears like the result anyway.
--
Phil Wilson
----
"Floyd" wrote in message
news:0001HW.C02D26680018331620B2AD00@news-server...
Any of you using these amp modeling boxes? I'm not at all familiar with
the
current generation of modeling gear. Do they make a useful addition to a
studio? Any testimonials?

Thanks

Floyd

On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 04:47:04 GMT, Floyd
trained 100 monkeys to jump on the keyboard and write:

Any of you using these amp modeling boxes? I'm not at all familiar with the
current generation of modeling gear. Do they make a useful addition to a
studio? Any testimonials?


I'm partial to the Tech21 stuff, too. The Trademark amps are
extremely flexible, and shine where the PODs don't : the clean
channels. The PSA-1 has some incredible sounds in it, too.

The PODs sound good, but they also sound a little generic to me.

--
jtougas

"listen- there's a hell of a good universe next door
let's go" - e.e. cummings

Forget modeling, get yourself one of these!


Birth of a PedalBoard
http://www.petecornish.co.uk/bop.html

Watch the construction of David Gilmour's new All Tube Pedalboard as it
takes shape in time for his 2006 US Tour

Here's a snapshot:
http://www.petecornish.co.uk/Woodwork-20.jpg

Here's a snapshot:
http://www.petecornish.co.uk/Woodwork-20.jpg

and

http://www.petecornish.co.uk/SN-0595-Complete-3-(Front).jpg

Very nice.

Rob Adelman wrote:
Forget modeling, get yourself one of these!


Birth of a PedalBoard
http://www.petecornish.co.uk/bop.html

Watch the construction of David Gilmour's new All Tube Pedalboard as it
takes shape in time for his 2006 US Tour

Here's a snapshot:
http://www.petecornish.co.uk/Woodwork-20.jpg