The question remains the same -- will the American left ever atone for
their sins?

Useful Idiot
By Anders Lewis
FrontPageMagazine.com | December 30, 2003


University of Chicago historian Bruce Cumings is the left's leading
scholar of Korean history. In addition to contributing to documentary
films on Korean life, Cumings has written a massive and highly
critical multi-volume account of the Korean War and published a
general history of Korea, titled Korea's Place in the Sun. And he is
not shy about his opinions. In a 1997 article in The Atlantic he
called for an end to U.S.-Korean hostilities. U.S. troops, he
insisted, should be brought home and relations with North Korea (the
Democratic People's Republic of Korea, or DPRK) should be normalized.
Cumings has also been a critic of other aspects of American foreign
policy. He has participated in broad and spirited debates with
numerous scholars, including John Lewis Gaddis and Ronald Radosh. In
one debate with Radosh he was asked if he thought communism was evil.
He said no, and insisted that large numbers of people enthusiastically
embraced communism. Cumings is also a frequent contributor to The
Nation magazine, where he went on record in opposition to the Bush
administration's successful war to liberate Iraq from Saddam Hussein.
But it is Korea that is Cumings's main focus, and in his new book,
North Korea: Another Country, he sets for himself one basic goal.
Cumings wants to convince Americans to abandon what he considers to be
George Bush's simplistic and dangerous Korean policy.

Cumings believes that North Korea is a misunderstood land. Its leaders
are not dangerous megalomaniacs. Rather, DPRK leaders have always been
pragmatic and nationalistic. During the Cold War, they avoided
dependence on the Soviet Union, created a productive economy, and
improved living standards. The society they created is impressive.
North Korea's streets are clean, its people humble, and crime is
almost non-existent. Kim Il Sung, the father of North Korean
communism, was a "a classic Robin Hood figure" who cared deeply for
his people. North Korea's current leader, Kim Jong Il, is "not the
playboy, womanizer, drunk, and mentally deranged fanatic ‘Dr. Evil' of
our press." Instead he is a "homebody who doesn't socialize much,
doesn't drink much, and works at home in his pajamas." The Dear Leader
also loves to tinker with music boxes, watch James Bond movies, and
play Super Mario video games. The cover of Cumings's book neatly
summarizes his views. On it is a photograph of a group of uniformed
women performing some type of dramatic production for North Korean
soldiers. With smoke in the background, one woman stands tall and
points a gun to the horizon. Coming out of the gun is a red flag.
Everyone looks on in awe. The image implies that under communism,
North Korea's future - though not without struggle - is bright.

Occasionally, reality intrudes on this romantic portrait of North
Korea and Cumings lets slip a polite criticism of the DPRK. Its
leaders, he meekly asserts, are guilty of "hubris" and "technological
fetishism." In general, however, Cumings adopts a decidedly positive
portrait of the DPRK. Consider, for example, his comments on an
election he witnessed in 1987 in Pyongyang. He writes that he "watched
the hoopla at each polling place" and "was struck by the quaint
simplicity of this ritual: a dubious yet effective brass band, old
people bent over canes in the polling lines and accorded the greatest
respect, young couples in their finest dress dancing in the chaste way
I remember from ‘square dances' in the Midwest of the 1950s, and
little kids fooling around while their parents waited to vote." While
getting sappy about his boyhood, Cumings fails to consider what type
of "election" he had witnessed, or how much real choice North Koreans
had during this "quaint" affair.

Cumings is apologetic on behalf of the DPRK. For America, he has
nothing but scorn. American attitudes towards Korea are racist. The
Korean War, in turn, was a U.S. war of aggression that amounted to a
holocaust for the Korean people. The U.S., he contends, had no right
to interfere in Korea because the war was "a civil war, a war fought
by Koreans, for Korean goals." Equally important, after the war, the
U.S. supported a corrupt and dictatorial South Korean government.

Cumings is so filled with Chomskyian anti-Americanism that he places
almost all the blame for whatever problems the North Koreans face on
America's shoulders. Moreover, he insists the U.S., not North Korea,
must compromise on negotiations over nuclear weapons. For Americans to
think otherwise is hypocritical. After all, North Korea would simply
"like to have nuclear weapons like those that the United States
amasses by the thousands." Not surprisingly, Cumings dismisses
criticism of North Korea's 1993 withdrawal from the Nuclear
Non-Proliferation Treaty, and praises the Clinton administration's
1994 Agreed Framework, which offered the North Koreans an assortment
of bribes – including economic aid and light-water reactors – so that
they would not develop nuclear weapons. Cumings also insists that the
North Korean withdrawal from the Agreed Framework, which they
announced in October 2002 to Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly,
was understandable given continued American threats. "Diplomacy with
the North," he writes, "is anathema because the Republican right won't
allow it and because the same group that brought us an illegal war
with Iraq wants to overthrow Kim Jong Il…."

Cumings's arguments can not be sustained. On numerous levels his book
fails. Embarrassingly, North Korea: Another Country is plagued with
grammatical errors and typos. For example, in chapter 2 Cumings
references a statement by Condoleeza Rice that, he reports, was
written in 1902. In chapter 3, Cumings writes this about his first
visit to North Korea: "They took me a large pre-twentieth-century
history museum…." In Chapter 6 he writes that UN "estimates of
agricultural production [in North Korea] stood at 4 million tons in
1995, dropping to 2.8 million tons for the each of the next two
years…." There are many other annoying errors. Such mistakes could,
perhaps, be forgiven if it were not for the fact that Cumings himself
attacks more conservative scholars and analysts on the very same
grounds. Hence, he blasts CIA analyst Helen-Louise Hunter for her
ungrammatical usage of certain Korean words. Hunter, he quips, has a
"painfully obvious lack of language facility." Judge not, oh
Professor, that ye be not judged!

There are other problems. Remarkably, Cumings believes it is perfectly
acceptable, even advisable, to use the controlled North Korean press
and North Korean government reports as dependable sources of
information. Thus, in writing about alleged U.S. and South Korean
atrocities committed during the Korean War he refers to a "secret
account by North Korean authorities" that claimed that South Korean
soldiers shot almost 30,000 non-combatants, and that the U.S.
government used a "slave labor" system to punish uncooperative North
Koreans. The report, Cumings writes, "detailed gruesome tortures, and
alleged that 300 female communists and collaborators were placed in
brothels where they were raped continuously…." Reflecting a stunning
lapse of historical judgement, not to mention knowledge of the true
nature of communism, Cumings defends his use of the report by asking
"why would DPRK officials lie to their superiors in secret internal
materials?"

Cumings's most basic problem is the apologetic stance he adopts on
behalf of North Korea. He is unwilling to look the North Korean
government in the eye and call it for what it is: a brutal,
totalitarian state. Instead, he prefers empathy. "Empathy for the
underdog," Cumings explains, is something I can't help, being a
lifelong fan of the Cleveland Indians." To run cover for the DPRK,
Cumings stamps a variety of labels on it. At one point, he calls it a
"corporate state." At another, a "royal dynasty." He concludes his
book by calling it a "vexing family state." Grasping for straws,
Cumings proves unable to explain the most dominant fact of North
Korean life - the total lack of freedom. He does produce a variety of
excuses for what he sometimes admits is an authoritarian North Korean
government. Perhaps, he suggests, it is the result of ancient
Confucian values? Or, perhaps it is the fact that North Korea emerged
out of "one of the most class-divided and stratified societies on the
face of the earth"? Certainly, Korea's long history, including its
Confucianism, should not be ignored when discussing the DPRK. Still,
Cumings does not consider the many nations with class-divided
histories that have become democracies today. Further, one wonders why
Cumings can not place blame for the status of North Korea where the
blame is due: on communism. While capitalist South Korea has done well
over the past two decades, communist North Korea is an economic basket
case. One scholar, Marcus Noland, has estimated that South Korean per
capita incomes could be as much as twenty times greater than North
Korean incomes. In nipping around the edges of Korean history, Cumings
does not get close to reality.

Even more intriguing is Cumings's bizarre efforts to explain away the
totalitarian nature of the DPRK by stating that North Koreans have a
different understanding of freedom than Americans do. He writes that
"from a Korean standpoint, where freedom is also defined as an
independent stance against foreign predators – freedom for the Korean
nation – here, the vitriolic judgements do not flow so easily." Hence,
North Koreans do have freedom and South Koreans, dependent as they are
on the U.S., are not as free as most Americans believe. Nor, for that
matter, are Americans. To underscore this point, Cumings argues that
North Korean prison camps compare favorably to American prisons.
Americans, he proposes, "should do something about the pathologies of
our inner cities – say, in Houston – before pointing the finger" at
the DPRK. That Cumings can not distinguish between a prison system
designed to punish political dissidents and one designed to house
criminals who have been provided a fair trial in a democratic nation
does not encourage his readers to place much stock in his scholarly
judgments.

Because Cumings is unable to comprehend the nature of the North Korean
government, he fails to adequately describe the terrible consequences
of its policies. He dismisses the DPRK's reliance on the former Soviet
Union as unimportant, even though recent scholarship has demonstrated
that Stalin gave Kim Il Sung the green light to invade South Korea in
1950, and even though the collapse of Soviet communism has crippled
the North Korean economy. Left to itself, the DPRK has failed
miserably. In the 1990s perhaps two or three million North Koreans
died as a result of famine, and Kim Jung Il – the great lover of Super
Mario video games - could hardly have cared. He attacked international
organizations seeking to aid North Koreans. In 1997 the Dear Leader
declared that "the imperialist's aid is a noose of plunder and
subjugation aimed at robbing ten and even a hundred things for one
thing that is given." Is this the "freedom" that Cumings celebrates?

Thousands of North Koreans have risked their lives and attempted to
escape the land that Cumings loves. One woman who attempted to escape
was captured and, in April 2000, placed in a concentration camp in
Chongjin city. While in camp, she witnessed how DPRK thugs killed
unborn and newborn children. "If it is found that a woman is
pregnant," she stated to Human Rights Watch personnel, "they
administered a medicine to abort. If the woman gave birth to a baby,
they covered it with vinyl and placed it face-down and killed it.
Seven women gave birth to children in that prison and they killed all
of them." Such horrors - such evil - are commonplace in North Korea.
President Bush understands this. Bruce Cumings does not. His North
Korea: Another Country, fails as scholarship. More importantly, it
fails on principle. After reading of the suffering and needless loss
of life as a result of the famine, as well as the tragic and moving
testimonies of the many North Koreans attempting to escape the DPNK,
one can not help but be stunned by Cumings's statement that "I don't
feel a responsibility for what goes on there…." After all, he writes,
"It is their country, for better or worse…."

On 30 Dec 2003 06:57:51 -0800, (pyjamarama)
wrote:

The question remains the same -- will the American left ever atone for
their sins?

I don't know but I sure get tired of the scare tactics from the right.

dave weil said:

The question remains the same -- will the American left ever atone for
their sins?

I don't know but I sure get tired of the scare tactics from the right.

Shut up, traitor.

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:26:30 -0500, George M. Middius
wrote:



dave weil said:

The question remains the same -- will the American left ever atone for
their sins?

I don't know but I sure get tired of the scare tactics from the right.

Shut up, traitor.

Make me, punk.

dave weil said:

The question remains the same -- will the American left ever atone for
their sins?

I don't know but I sure get tired of the scare tactics from the right.

Shut up, traitor.

Make me, punk.

I have the Attorney General's phone number right here, you terrorist
spy.

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:42:47 -0500, George M. Middius
wrote:



dave weil said:

The question remains the same -- will the American left ever atone for
their sins?

I don't know but I sure get tired of the scare tactics from the right.

Shut up, traitor.

Make me, punk.

I have the Attorney General's phone number right here, you terrorist
spy.

Hey, I was just in Washington DC over Christmas and I'm here to tell
you that I *saw* the Bill of Rights at the National Archives and it's
still here, despite the best efforts of some to make it disappear.

I'll admit though that the ink was faded, and I wasn't happy that
there was about a 45 minute wait to view it. I should have been
allowed to the front of the line. This isn't my idea of customer
service.

"pyjamarama" wrote in message

The question remains the same -- will the American left ever atone for
their sins?


Stop trying to compensate for your penis size (or lack thereof) by
continuously changing the subject.

Hint: Try to read the name of this newsgroup.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:42:47 -0500, George M. Middius
wrote:



dave weil said:

The question remains the same -- will the American left ever atone
for
their sins?

I don't know but I sure get tired of the scare tactics from the
right.

Shut up, traitor.

Make me, punk.

I have the Attorney General's phone number right here, you terrorist
spy.

Hey, I was just in Washington DC over Christmas and I'm here to tell
you that I *saw* the Bill of Rights at the National Archives and it's
still here, despite the best efforts of some to make it disappear.

I'll admit though that the ink was faded, and I wasn't happy that
there was about a 45 minute wait to view it. I should have been
allowed to the front of the line. This isn't my idea of customer
service.

What happened? Did the deli run out of the special?

ScottW

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:34:32 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 10:42:47 -0500, George M. Middius
wrote:



dave weil said:

The question remains the same -- will the American left ever atone
for
their sins?

I don't know but I sure get tired of the scare tactics from the
right.

Shut up, traitor.

Make me, punk.

I have the Attorney General's phone number right here, you terrorist
spy.

Hey, I was just in Washington DC over Christmas and I'm here to tell
you that I *saw* the Bill of Rights at the National Archives and it's
still here, despite the best efforts of some to make it disappear.

I'll admit though that the ink was faded, and I wasn't happy that
there was about a 45 minute wait to view it. I should have been
allowed to the front of the line. This isn't my idea of customer
service.

What happened? Did the deli run out of the special?

You've never *been* to the National Archives, I take it.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...

Hey, I was just in Washington DC over Christmas and I'm here to tell
you that I *saw* the Bill of Rights at the National Archives and it's
still here, despite the best efforts of some to make it disappear.

I'll admit though that the ink was faded, and I wasn't happy that
there was about a 45 minute wait to view it. I should have been
allowed to the front of the line. This isn't my idea of customer
service.

What happened? Did the deli run out of the special?

You've never *been* to the National Archives, I take it.

Nope, you have a problem with that?

ScottW

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:42:06 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .

Hey, I was just in Washington DC over Christmas and I'm here to tell
you that I *saw* the Bill of Rights at the National Archives and it's
still here, despite the best efforts of some to make it disappear.

I'll admit though that the ink was faded, and I wasn't happy that
there was about a 45 minute wait to view it. I should have been
allowed to the front of the line. This isn't my idea of customer
service.

What happened? Did the deli run out of the special?

You've never *been* to the National Archives, I take it.

Nope, you have a problem with that?

No, not at all. I just wanted to establish that you didn't know what
you were talking about, that's all...

"dave weil" wrote in message
...

Hey, I was just in Washington DC over Christmas

you should have looked me up.




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"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On 30 Dec 2003 06:57:51 -0800, (pyjamarama)
wrote:

The question remains the same -- will the American left ever atone for
their sins?

I don't know but I sure get tired of the scare tactics from the right.

How about scare tactics from the left, that's what they are best at.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:42:06 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .

Hey, I was just in Washington DC over Christmas and I'm here to
tell
you that I *saw* the Bill of Rights at the National Archives and
it's
still here, despite the best efforts of some to make it disappear.

I'll admit though that the ink was faded, and I wasn't happy that
there was about a 45 minute wait to view it. I should have been
allowed to the front of the line. This isn't my idea of customer
service.

What happened? Did the deli run out of the special?

You've never *been* to the National Archives, I take it.

Nope, you have a problem with that?

No, not at all. I just wanted to establish that you didn't know what
you were talking about, that's all...

We've already established you don't know much about quality
cusotmer service. Even?

ScottW

Garcon, another serving of Alpo for the pooch.

No, not at all. I just wanted to establish that you didn't know what
you were talking about, that's all...

We've already established you don't know much about quality
cusotmer service. Even?

Been toking on the Kroo-joint, I see.

"George M. Middius" wrote in message
...


Garcon, another serving of Alpo for the pooch.

No, not at all. I just wanted to establish that you didn't know what
you were talking about, that's all...

We've already established you don't know much about quality
cusotmer service. Even?

Been toking on the Kroo-joint, I see.

As long as it ain't whatever you been toking,
I'll be fine.

Did you decide if you give or receive from the government?

ScottW

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:00:10 -0800, "Michael McKelvy"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On 30 Dec 2003 06:57:51 -0800, (pyjamarama)
wrote:

The question remains the same -- will the American left ever atone for
their sins?

I don't know but I sure get tired of the scare tactics from the right.

How about scare tactics from the left, that's what they are best at.

It doesnt' hold a candle to the right.

I know because I just endured about a week of FoxNews blaring story
after story about potential terrorism. About 50 minutes out of every
hour was filled with "expert" after "expert" minutely grinding on
about foiled terrorist plots.

It became just a drone after a while. A one-note performance that
really blunted the pleasure of visiting our nation's Capital over
Christmas.

And it continues unabated today.

My point isn't that quashing terrorism isn't an important story - it's
just not the only one.

I will say this - the new Air and Space Museum next to Dulles is
AMAZING. 750,000 sq feet of wonder.

A new species of terrier, or the same old 'borg crap?

Garcon, another serving of Alpo for the pooch.

No, not at all. I just wanted to establish that you didn't know what
you were talking about, that's all...

We've already established you don't know much about quality
cusotmer service. Even?

Been toking on the Kroo-joint, I see.

As long as it ain't whatever you been toking,
I'll be fine.

There's the Skye, the Irish, the Boston Bull, and now the IKYABWAI
Terrier. How dreary.

Did you decide if you give or receive from the government?

How's the boring job where you get "professional training" from a
cattle prod?

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:17:39 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 14:42:06 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .

Hey, I was just in Washington DC over Christmas and I'm here to
tell
you that I *saw* the Bill of Rights at the National Archives and
it's
still here, despite the best efforts of some to make it disappear.

I'll admit though that the ink was faded, and I wasn't happy that
there was about a 45 minute wait to view it. I should have been
allowed to the front of the line. This isn't my idea of customer
service.

What happened? Did the deli run out of the special?

You've never *been* to the National Archives, I take it.

Nope, you have a problem with that?

No, not at all. I just wanted to establish that you didn't know what
you were talking about, that's all...

We've already established you don't know much about quality
cusotmer service. Even?

Nope. Because I'm an expert in dealing with customer service. All you
have to do is look at my tip percentages night after night and look at
the thousands of members of the public that I deal with over the span
of a year.

Match that, office rat.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:00:10 -0800, "Michael McKelvy"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On 30 Dec 2003 06:57:51 -0800, (pyjamarama)
wrote:

The question remains the same -- will the American left ever atone for
their sins?

I don't know but I sure get tired of the scare tactics from the right.

How about scare tactics from the left, that's what they are best at.

It doesnt' hold a candle to the right.

I know because I just endured about a week of FoxNews blaring story
after story about potential terrorism. About 50 minutes out of every
hour was filled with "expert" after "expert" minutely grinding on
about foiled terrorist plots.

It became just a drone after a while. A one-note performance that
really blunted the pleasure of visiting our nation's Capital over
Christmas.

And it continues unabated today.

My point isn't that quashing terrorism isn't an important story - it's
just not the only one.

Since they are the top rated cable news channel, I would guess they are
doing stories their audience wants to hear.

It hardly compares to the tactics that Democrat politicians constantly use.
The Republicans want to poison the air and water and starve grandma, etc.,
etc..


I will say this - the new Air and Space Museum next to Dulles is
AMAZING. 750,000 sq feet of wonder.

Glad you enjoyed it.

"George M. Middius" wrote in message
...


A new species of terrier, or the same old 'borg crap?

Garcon, another serving of Alpo for the pooch.

No, not at all. I just wanted to establish that you didn't know
what
you were talking about, that's all...

We've already established you don't know much about quality
cusotmer service. Even?

Been toking on the Kroo-joint, I see.

As long as it ain't whatever you been toking,
I'll be fine.

There's the Skye, the Irish, the Boston Bull, and now the IKYABWAI
Terrier. How dreary.

It was IKIANYBWAY, do try to keep things straight in spite
of your frail condition.

Did you decide if you give or receive from the government?

How's the boring job where you get "professional training" from a
cattle prod?

Working for a living against your religion?

ScottW

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:17:39 -0800, "ScottW"

We've already established you don't know much about quality
cusotmer service. Even?

Nope. Because I'm an expert in dealing with customer service.

I thought you provided customer service. You're saying this
like you're interfacing with a corporate department in
industry, but we know that isn't correct. Sorry, what was
your expertise in?


All you
have to do is look at my tip percentages night after night and look at
the thousands of members of the public that I deal with over the span
of a year.

Match that, office rat.

Office rat. I love it when they get jealous.
(s******)

How much did you say your publics gratitude is worth to you
annually Dave? 30 or 40K?

Sorry, you've been measured, and you're a bit short.
Well, more than a bit, but I don't want to rub it in.

ScottW

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:22:58 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:17:39 -0800, "ScottW"

We've already established you don't know much about quality
cusotmer service. Even?

Nope. Because I'm an expert in dealing with customer service.

I thought you provided customer service. You're saying this
like you're interfacing with a corporate department in
industry, but we know that isn't correct. Sorry, what was
your expertise in?

Customer service.

All you
have to do is look at my tip percentages night after night and look at
the thousands of members of the public that I deal with over the span
of a year.

Match that, office rat.

Office rat. I love it when they get jealous.
(s******)

I'm not jealous about working 9 to 5 (figuratively speaking) in an
office. If I were, I'd be doing that instead of what I'm doing now.

How much did you say your publics gratitude is worth to you
annually Dave? 30 or 40K?

Not quite 30.

Of course, I only average less than 30 hours a week plus I pretty much
set my own schedule for the most part...

Of course, I don't measure my life by how much money I make like you
apparently do.

Sorry, you've been measured, and you're a bit short.

Nah, not really. We could measure you by a lawyer and a doctor's
standards as well, and you'd fall short as well. Do you really want to
go there?

Well, more than a bit, but I don't want to rub it in.

Frankly, I wouldn't want to change places with you at all. I don't
want to be a cell phone salesman.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:22:58 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:17:39 -0800, "ScottW"

We've already established you don't know much about quality
cusotmer service. Even?

Nope. Because I'm an expert in dealing with customer service.

I thought you provided customer service. You're saying this
like you're interfacing with a corporate department in
industry, but we know that isn't correct. Sorry, what was
your expertise in?

Customer service.

All you
have to do is look at my tip percentages night after night and look at
the thousands of members of the public that I deal with over the span
of a year.

Match that, office rat.

Office rat. I love it when they get jealous.
(s******)

I'm not jealous about working 9 to 5 (figuratively speaking) in an
office. If I were, I'd be doing that instead of what I'm doing now.

How much did you say your publics gratitude is worth to you
annually Dave? 30 or 40K?

Not quite 30.

Of course, I only average less than 30 hours a week plus I pretty much
set my own schedule for the most part...


you seem like a lot happier person than a lot of others I know.




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Socky said:

Of course, I only average less than 30 hours a week plus I pretty much
set my own schedule for the most part...

you seem like a lot happier person than a lot of others I know.

The Terrierborg in particular is one nasty piece of work. His
Kroogerian lying to himself, his snotty assertions of his own warped
values as the only ones that exist, and his overwhelming stupidity
that prevents him from understanding everything he doesn't know all
combine to show an individual who will never be happy.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:22:58 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 18:17:39 -0800, "ScottW"

We've already established you don't know much about quality
cusotmer service. Even?

Nope. Because I'm an expert in dealing with customer service.

I thought you provided customer service. You're saying this
like you're interfacing with a corporate department in
industry, but we know that isn't correct. Sorry, what was
your expertise in?

Customer service.

All you
have to do is look at my tip percentages night after night and look at
the thousands of members of the public that I deal with over the span
of a year.

Match that, office rat.

Office rat. I love it when they get jealous.
(s******)

I'm not jealous about working 9 to 5 (figuratively speaking) in an
office. If I were, I'd be doing that instead of what I'm doing now.

Keep guessing Dave.
I think its funny you guys think I have am chained to a desk
in an office. You are really clueless.


How much did you say your publics gratitude is worth to you
annually Dave? 30 or 40K?

Not quite 30.

Of course, I only average less than 30 hours a week plus I pretty much
set my own schedule for the most part...

Of course, I don't measure my life by how much money I make like you
apparently do.

You brought it up.
Didn't you say "All you have to do is look at my tip percentages
night after night"? As if money is an indication of your expertise
in customer service. Your expertise is explaining why the restaurant
failed to deliver the special. That isn't customer service,
it's customer soothing.

Sorry, you've been measured, and you're a bit short.

Nah, not really. We could measure you by a lawyer and a doctor's
standards as well, and you'd fall short as well.

Thinking of becoming a lawyer or a doctor, Dave?

Do you really want to
go there?

You don't want to go there.


Well, more than a bit, but I don't want to rub it in.

Frankly, I wouldn't want to change places with you at all. I don't
want to be a cell phone salesman.

Cell phone salesmen work in Radio Shack. And probably do
about as well as a waiter in Nashville.

It is a real hoot listening to you guys who have never worked
in current technical companies, think everything is still the white
shirt environment of IBM in the 70's. It isn't, but you will
never know for yourself. I guess you'll just have to trust me.

Do you have a funded retirement Dave? Your getting up
there and I'm sure no matter how much you like soothing
those customers, you can't do it forever.
Maybe you can, Arny plans to run his PC bus. forever.

ScottW

"George M. Middius" wrote in message
...


Socky said:

Of course, I only average less than 30 hours a week plus I pretty
much
set my own schedule for the most part...

you seem like a lot happier person than a lot of others I know.

The Terrierborg in particular is one nasty piece of work. His
Kroogerian lying to himself, his snotty assertions of his own warped
values as the only ones that exist,

George believes in multiple rights and wrongs.
Makes for a pretty twisted individual.
Kind of like Trots' truth is in the eye of the
beholder.

and his overwhelming stupidity
that prevents him from understanding everything he doesn't know all
combine to show an individual who will never be happy.

You're just upset that I correctly pointed out that while you
complain about rich people and advocate liberal socialist
politics, you are in reality a leach on the working mans
society. I don't like working for people like you, but I am.
You should appreciate it.

ScottW

Dig in the dirt all you want, Terrierborg. Your time with the
Kroo-sausage draws near.

It is a real hoot listening to you guys who have never worked
in current technical companies, think everything is still the white
shirt environment of IBM in the 70's. It isn't, but you will
never know for yourself. I guess you'll just have to trust me.

Why wouldn't we "know"? Every IT company I've worked for sucks the
life out of their employees. You clowns who are so proud of your
"careers" tend to sacrifice a lot for them. Stock options up in smoke,
weekly investment upwards of 55 hours, good performance rewarded by
more responsibility (but not more pay)..... Yes, techies have come a
long way since "IBM in the 70's[sic]".

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message


you seem like a lot happier person than a lot of others I know.


...such as yourself?

LOL!

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message


you seem like a lot happier person than a lot of others I know.


..such as yourself?

Funny how you knew I was thinking of you!




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On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 01:54:44 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

Of course, I don't measure my life by how much money I make like you
apparently do.

You brought it up.
Didn't you say "All you have to do is look at my tip percentages
night after night"? As if money is an indication of your expertise
in customer service.

You missed the point. The point isn't the money, the point is
PERCENTAGE. The percentage of a tip is a firm measure of my guest's
satisfaction.

Unfortunately, it's doubtful that *you* have such a direct one-on-one
barometer of how you satisfy *your* customers.

Your expertise is explaining why the restaurant
failed to deliver the special. That isn't customer service,
it's customer soothing.

You really *don't* have a clue, telephone boy.

And your taste in dining out is suspect as well.

chuckle

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 02:00:24 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

You're just upset that I correctly pointed out that while you
complain about rich people and advocate liberal socialist
politics, you are in reality a leach on the working mans
society. I don't like working for people like you, but I am.

You know, saying an untruth over and over again doesn't make it true.

You're no better than Arnold.

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 06:17:05 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message


you seem like a lot happier person than a lot of others I know.


..such as yourself?

LOL!

You know, it's funny. LOL is usually used to respond to something
funny that *someone else* says.

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 02:00:24 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

You're just upset that I correctly pointed out that while you
complain about rich people and advocate liberal socialist
politics, you are in reality a leach on the working mans
society. I don't like working for people like you, but I am.

You know, saying an untruth over and over again doesn't make it true.

You're no better than Arnold.

That still leaves him ample territory for him to be far better than you,
Weil.

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message


you seem like a lot happier person than a lot of others I know.


..such as yourself?

Funny how you knew I was thinking of you!

Shows you just can't read and perceive simple English, sockpuppet. You're a
career government employee, right?

In article ,
dave weil wrote:

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 01:54:44 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

Of course, I don't measure my life by how much money I make like you
apparently do.

You brought it up.
Didn't you say "All you have to do is look at my tip percentages
night after night"? As if money is an indication of your expertise
in customer service.

You missed the point. The point isn't the money, the point is
PERCENTAGE. The percentage of a tip is a firm measure of my guest's
satisfaction.

Unfortunately, it's doubtful that *you* have such a direct one-on-one
barometer of how you satisfy *your* customers.

Your expertise is explaining why the restaurant
failed to deliver the special. That isn't customer service,
it's customer soothing.

You really *don't* have a clue, telephone boy.

And your taste in dining out is suspect as well.

chuckle

Scott should rent Monty Python's "The Meaning of Life" to see another
appropriate response.

Scott's "customer service" leads to out-of-season tomato slices on fast
food burgers.

Stephen

MINe 109 said:

Scott's "customer service" leads to out-of-season tomato slices on fast
food burgers.

If the menu says you offer tomatoes, you damn well better have
tomatoes in the kitchen. It's exactly like cell phones: They're always
supposed to be working. You can't turn off one of the towers and tell
customers it's a "special".

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:F1xIb.43012$m83.33036@fed1read01

Do you have a funded retirement Dave?

Not even funded medical coverage.

Your getting up
there and I'm sure no matter how much you like soothing
those customers, you can't do it forever.

Don't know about mandatory retirement in his biz.

Maybe you can, Arny plans to run his PC bus. forever.

Depends who you believe, Scotty. Middius and his clique, including your buds
the Sockpuppet twins seem to think I'm already living off my retirement.

Life's tough for people like Weil who seem to have never gotten very far
past the $50K per anum barrier (even by his own bragging). If you consider
the fact that he's paying his own benefits, knock $10K or more off of that.

In article ,
George M. Middius wrote:

MINe 109 said:

Scott's "customer service" leads to out-of-season tomato slices on fast
food burgers.

If the menu says you offer tomatoes, you damn well better have
tomatoes in the kitchen. It's exactly like cell phones: They're always
supposed to be working. You can't turn off one of the towers and tell
customers it's a "special".




Damn straight! As a customer, I won't be satisfied until Scott has
mapped the entire SoCal area, pausing at every step to say, "Can you
hear me now?"

Stephen

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 10:22:12 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:F1xIb.43012$m83.33036@fed1read01

Do you have a funded retirement Dave?

Not even funded medical coverage.

Actually *you* are funding my medical coverage.

And it's the same medical coverage that's available to you (but
probably not ScottW).

And the answer is no - I don't have a funded retirement.

Your getting up
there and I'm sure no matter how much you like soothing
those customers, you can't do it forever.

Don't know about mandatory retirement in his biz.

Nope. No "mandatory retirement". I can certainly do it as long as I'm
comfortable doing it and it's enjoyable.

Maybe you can, Arny plans to run his PC bus. forever.

Depends who you believe, Scotty. Middius and his clique, including your buds
the Sockpuppet twins seem to think I'm already living off my retirement.

Life's tough for people like Weil who seem to have never gotten very far
past the $50K per anum barrier (even by his own bragging).

I'm not the kind of person who "brags" about money, since money isn't
all that important to me.

If you consider the fact that he's paying his own benefits, knock $10K or more off of that.

Actually, I've taken less pay for better "benefits", so to speak. I
took a $5 grand hit to go from management back to tableside service.
Who knows, I might end up going back into management or ownership as
the years progress...the nice thing about my career over the years is
that I have never been locked into a single company or career. That's
no knock against those who *do* enjoy a single career though. I just
prefer a little more flexibility and a wider choice of life
experiences.