I'm looking for a low cost, pro-sumer preamp/mic combo that would
work well with a vocal that is about in the range, style and a cross
between James Taylor and Clay Walker. The problem is trying out endless
pres is going to be a hard task, especially when they are cheap ones
with little commission attached. (hence the need to ask instead of try,
first) Trying the few that are recommended will be a huge timesaver.
So, in the name of cheap preamps, what's out there that sounds good
enough for an indie release CD and can be bought on the cheap (not a
$1000 or more unit). I suppose the highest cost would still be shy of a
RNP.


Thanks for the help

Danny T wrote:
I'm looking for a low cost, pro-sumer preamp/mic combo that would
work well with a vocal that is about in the range, style and a cross
between James Taylor and Clay Walker. The problem is trying out endless
pres is going to be a hard task,

It is. Try a few mics with the voice, buy one that sounds good, and
spend whatever you have left on a preamp. In your price range, the mic
is going to be more important to the sound than the preamp. Just don't
get a tube preamp because it's a tube preamp.

You will produce an "indie quality" CD at best, but it's not because of
the mic and preamp that you choose, it's because you're a beginner.
Nothing wrong with that. You don't learn to play guitar in one session,
nor do you learn to make great sounding records in one session.

Uhmm - thanks I think... Actually, I am not a beginner, but the guy I
was asked to help is and he will be doing this on his own. I don't
usually deal in the low end pres so I didn't know where to send him to
start. I know there are a mess of little pres on the market that are
cheap and probably pretty good so I thought someone here might know a
few to start with. As for mics, there are a mess of those too so- well,
were to start.
Anyway, thanks

Danny T wrote:
... Actually, I am not a beginner, but the guy I
was asked to help is and he will be doing this on his own. I don't
usually deal in the low end pres so I didn't know where to send him to
start.

Ah, now I undertstand. I find myself in that position all the time and
I have a very small list (small Mackie mixer, Symetrix SX-202 or 302
[eBay item for sure] Studio Projects VTB-1, or, at the "high" end,
RNMP) that I suggest. If they ask "How about the WXYZ that I read about
on the Internet?" I tell them that they can go ahead and try it, that
unless it really sucks it really won't matter much. And that's the
truth. It's much harder to find a preamp that will make a mediocre mic
sound good than it is to find a decent mic that the preamp doesn't make
sound bad. And when you're on a tight budget, you can get more bang for
your limited bucks with a mic than with a preamp.

Mr. Rivers said it all.

I have used the VTB-1 often lately. I like how it sounds with an AT2020
on a male voice. Actually, (Off topic) I just used a VTB-1 for mic'ing
a small djembe with a cheapo Shure beta green 3.0 and it actually
sounded great.

After I heard it I started looking for a 302. It was a nice clean
sounding preamp. (For that price range)

Mike Rivers (that's me!) wrote:

It's much harder to find a preamp that will make a mediocre mic
sound good than it is to find a decent mic that the preamp doesn't make
sound bad.

Too many negatives, but I think you get the idea. A decent mic for the
application won't suck simply because you use it with the "wrong"
preamp.

didn't sound negative -

Now that is the answer I needed to borrow (or modify a little to fit)!
Thanks for the inspiration. I have a hard time when asked for favors
because I am inherently too nice for my own good and I really need to
have a standardized escape clause :-)

Danny T wrote:
I'm looking for a low cost, pro-sumer preamp/mic combo that would
work well with a vocal that is about in the range, style and a cross
between James Taylor and Clay Walker. The problem is trying out endless
pres is going to be a hard task, especially when they are cheap ones
with little commission attached. (hence the need to ask instead of try,
first) Trying the few that are recommended will be a huge timesaver.
So, in the name of cheap preamps, what's out there that sounds good
enough for an indie release CD and can be bought on the cheap (not a
$1000 or more unit). I suppose the highest cost would still be shy of a
RNP.


Thanks for the help

There are a few respectable preamps you can find in "used" condition
for not much money. A Symetrix SX-202 microphone preamp has two
channels and can be found for about $150 on eBay and elswhere. A couple
of mono "channel strips" that have pre's, EQ, and compression are the
Symetrix 528 and the DBX 286, and they can also be found for around
$150. A few very good general purpose mic's that could work well on
your voice (and many other things as well) would include the
Electro-Voice RE-20, Shure SM-7, Sennheiser MD-421, all of which can be
found "used" for under $350 each.

I've never used a symetrix. thanks for that tip. I think, listening to
him sing (not me) that he would do well with just about any or the
cheap Road mics or maybe the MXL v67 and maybe the nt2 would be ok.

I'm trying to be a nice guy to a friend and get out of recording him at
the same time since he's going to be in a forced mooch mode.

thanks

wrote:

A couple of mono "channel strips" that have pre's, EQ, and
compression are the Symetrix 528 and the DBX 286


I generally find Symetrix gear to be anywhere from unobjectionable to
pretty decent, but I'm not a big fan of that particular device. The pre
is dull, the EQ only goes from off to bad, and the compressor doesn't
offer enough control to prevent damage. Personally, I'd see what else
is available first. YMMV.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

Danny T wrote:
I'm looking for a low cost, pro-sumer preamp/mic combo that would
work well with a vocal that is about in the range, style and a cross
between James Taylor and Clay Walker. The problem is trying out endless
pres is going to be a hard task, especially when they are cheap ones
with little commission attached. (hence the need to ask instead of try,
first) Trying the few that are recommended will be a huge timesaver.
So, in the name of cheap preamps, what's out there that sounds good
enough for an indie release CD and can be bought on the cheap (not a
$1000 or more unit). I suppose the highest cost would still be shy of a
RNP.


Thanks for the help

My vote would be as follows:

RNP or Symetrix SX202 in that order.

RE-20, SM-7, MXL-V67, AT2020

maybe even consider a BLUE Snowball but I haven't heard that one yet.
It plugs straight into the USB port as the gain stages and A/D are
built in.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

"Danny T" wrote:

I'm looking for a low cost, pro-sumer preamp/mic combo



Aren't you supposed to be off on a boat somewhere? What are you doing
shopping for gear? Turn off the computer and go look at the water.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

My boat was eaten by Wilma - Actually I am shopping for a freind.

Actually -- I'm going to sell a lot of my stuff. I think I am going to
sell a few avalon 737's, mics, a sv3800 dat, and some instruments.
Haven't listed them yet but I will - I need 16k to buy a new mast and
that which it landed on (ouch)

"Danny T" wrote:

My boat was eaten by Wilma

Bitch had an appetite... so where are you now?


Actually I am shopping for a freind.

Yeah, I got that. Try my stock answer: "The one I use costs xxx
thousand dollars. Want me to tell you where to get one?" It doesn't
matter what device they're asking about. Just inflate the price to more
than they can imagine spending. When they say they want something
cheaper, I just say I've never used any of the cheap stuff so I don't
know anything about it.



Actually -- I'm going to sell a lot of my stuff. I think I am going
to sell a few avalon 737's, mics, a sv3800 dat, and some instruments.
I need 16k to buy a new mast and that which it landed on (ouch)

I'll do my bit. How about a couple hundred bucks for one of those 737s?
Okay, three hundred but you gotta throw in a Neumann.

Don't even bother listing the DAT. It's worth more as an emergency 16
bit converter than it is in cash these days. I'll avoid the
all-too-obvious anchor jokes, out of respect for the dearly demasted.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

Lorin David Schultz wrote:

Try my stock answer: "The one I use costs xxx
thousand dollars. Want me to tell you where to get one?"

Danny's got an Avalon preamp and a few AT mics up for sale. He could
lend those to his buddy while he's building a new boat.

I'm in Oceanside rigtht now - and just got back from Minnie's in New
Port Beach. I found a mast that I can use but I have to have it shipped
back to FL so I won't know how much that will cost for a day or two.
Who knows,. I might be back on Makai in time to get to the Bahamas this
yaer after all :-)

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 21:12:48 -0500, Danny T wrote
(in article .com):

I'm looking for a low cost, pro-sumer preamp/mic combo that would
work well with a vocal that is about in the range, style and a cross
between James Taylor and Clay Walker. The problem is trying out endless
pres is going to be a hard task, especially when they are cheap ones
with little commission attached. (hence the need to ask instead of try,
first) Trying the few that are recommended will be a huge timesaver.
So, in the name of cheap preamps, what's out there that sounds good
enough for an indie release CD and can be bought on the cheap (not a
$1000 or more unit). I suppose the highest cost would still be shy of a
RNP.


Thanks for the help


Try matching the mic to the preamp first. Different mics sound different
through different preamps.

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

Ty Ford wrote:

Try matching the mic to the preamp first. Different mics sound different
through different preamps.

But this is what he was trying to avoid doing, or at least narrow down
to a manageable number of known good combinations, given that there are
so many mics and preamps.

I think that on his friend's budget (assuming that he hasn't spent
$20,000 for a monitor system and only has $200 left for a mic and
preamp), he isn't going to find an exceptional combination. But he
might find a good mic and combine it with a preamp that doesn't make it
sound disturbingly different from whatever "the best" happens to be at
the moment.

OK - here's the deal. I was asked for help by a guy, that I met
sailing, who makes his living playing jimmy buffett type songs in local
choke and pukes along the south east shore board. He has no recordings
to sell so I read him the riot act and he decided to record. Now that I
opened my bloody mouth, I am more or less obligated to get him going on
gear that will record a nice enough sound that people buying a copy of
his songs won't be too upset with the quality. He's recording this on
his boat in the first place. It is going to be a home brewed yo-ho
recording of mediocre buffet replica songs. There won't be high
expectations to start with.

Thanks for the help guys -

May your anchor be tight, your corks be loose, your rum be spiced and
your compass be true.
--
Danny Taddei

Danny T wrote:

I read him the riot act and he decided to record. Now that I
opened my bloody mouth, I am more or less obligated to get him going on
gear that will record a nice enough sound that people buying a copy of
his songs won't be too upset with the quality.

Nobody who buys a CD of a bar singer in a bar will ever be upset with
the sound quality no matter how bad it is. They might be upset by poor
performances, but that isn't going to be improved with a mic preamp.
And some who buy it will never even play the CD.

Get him an AT 2020 and a TASCAM US-122. He'll have everything he needs,
including a copy of Cubase.

Do the tascam units have pres? that's not a bad idea at all. I have a
tascam us-428 or something like that but I only use it for a cubase
transport. I guess I should look to see if it has pres and if so sell
it to him. I'd love to get rid of it :-)


Mike Rivers wrote:
Danny T wrote:

I read him the riot act and he decided to record. Now that I
opened my bloody mouth, I am more or less obligated to get him going on
gear that will record a nice enough sound that people buying a copy of
his songs won't be too upset with the quality.

Nobody who buys a CD of a bar singer in a bar will ever be upset with
the sound quality no matter how bad it is. They might be upset by poor
performances, but that isn't going to be improved with a mic preamp.
And some who buy it will never even play the CD.

Get him an AT 2020 and a TASCAM US-122. He'll have everything he needs,
including a copy of Cubase.

Danny T wrote:
OK - here's the deal. I was asked for help by a guy, that I met
sailing, who makes his living playing jimmy buffett type songs in local
choke and pukes along the south east shore board. He has no recordings
to sell so I read him the riot act and he decided to record. Now that I
opened my bloody mouth, I am more or less obligated to get him going on
gear that will record a nice enough sound that people buying a copy of
his songs won't be too upset with the quality. He's recording this on
his boat in the first place. It is going to be a home brewed yo-ho
recording of mediocre buffet replica songs. There won't be high
expectations to start with.

If he plays anything around the Hampton (VA) Marina, have him give me
a call and I'll come out with the Nagra and hand him an edited CD-R
the next day. No fancy stuff, just one take live and cut and paste, but
I'll charge him a couple hundred bucks as a favor if it only takes a
couple hours.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 09:59:03 -0500, Mike Rivers wrote
(in article .com):


Ty Ford wrote:

Try matching the mic to the preamp first. Different mics sound different
through different preamps.

But this is what he was trying to avoid doing, or at least narrow down
to a manageable number of known good combinations..

Oh, sorry. That's impossible!

Regards,

Ty Ford





-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

I know - but you and many others know more about what fits then I do. I
just buy the good stuff and stick it in a rack and do work for me. I
never really test stuff at the stores. I know there is a lot of low
cost good stuff out there but i have never discovered it so I don't
know what to say when asked. (I only sound smart when I repeat what
others tell me :-)