Margaret's audio gourmet thread was fun. That gave me the idea for this
one.

Rate each component in the audio chain by percentage of importance in
the overall sound or enjoyment of your system. For the sake of
argument, assume a well-recorded source (CD, LP, etc.) with no physical
problems.

Speaker
Room interaction with the speaker
Speaker cable
Power amplifier(s)
Preamplifier
CD/DVD player
Audio interconnects
Power cords/power conditioners
Stand
'Tweaks'

For those who listen to vinyl:

Turntable
Tonearm
Cartridge
Phono preamp

For those who listen to tubed equipment:

Tube brand or type

Feel free to add items that I overlooked, or to disregard any of these
that I've placed on the list if they have no importance to you.

Here's mine:

55% Speaker
10% Room interaction with the speaker
0% Speaker cable
4% Power amplifier(s)
5% Preamplifier
4% CD/DVD player
2% Audio interconnects
0% Power cords
0% Stand
2% 'Tweaks'
3% Tube brand or type
4% Turntable
2% Tonearm
6% Cartridge
3% Phono preamp

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason! wrote:

Rate each component in the audio chain by percentage of importance in
the overall sound or enjoyment of your system. For the sake of
argument, assume a well-recorded source (CD, LP, etc.) with no physical
problems.

6% Speaker
2% Room interaction with the speaker
0% Speaker cable
..5% Power amplifier(s)
..5% Preamplifier
1% CD/DVD player
1% Turntable, Tonearm, Cartridge, Phono preamp
0% Audio interconnects
0% Power cords/power conditioners
0% Stand
0% 'Tweaks'
10% Quality of the recording
30% Quality of the performance
50% My mood or attitude

Note that my overall enjoyment is primarily determined by my mood. I
may be underestimating it.

This is assuming that everything works - if there's a problem with the
AC, a power conditioner may alleviate that problem. If there's a cold
solder joint in the speaker cables, replacing it with one that's not
broken will help. If the speakers are sitting on top of inverted steel
garbage cans, decent non-resonant stands will help. IOW, there's no
single component that won't ruin a system if it's broken.

//Walt

Any link in the chain can put you out in the cold, so it's impossibble
to establish an absolute hierarchy. But in general you get the speaker
and the room to work together for the results you want, then give them
the right amp: the source end is determined by what the material you
want to listen to happens to be recorded on. Saying CD is better than
vinyl, for instance is simply ridiculous if the material you want to
listen to is available on vinyl and not CD!

Some music is not available on CD. Some is, but not very well
mastered. In those cases the vinyl is superior! On the other hand-some
things are available only on CD, the CD transfer is better than the
available vinyl (it happens), or you are just not interested in ****ing
with vinyl.

With vinyl, the first order of battle is: good vinyl. Because many LPs
suck. They do now and always did. Then, you want a turntable and arm
that work together, a cartridge that works with the arm, and.....a
preamp designed to work with that cartridge. Expensive cartridges are a
waste of money if the preamp does not load them exactly properly.

I do tend to prefer tube phono stages, particularly those using 90
volt TV front end tubes (6DJ8s). Joe Curcio designed one that was
particularly good about twenty years ago. I have never heard a
commercially built one as good as several homebrew ones, including one
that used N-channel FETs and similar voltages to the 6DJ8 one, and
another using Sowter transformers and a pair of Jensen 990 op amps(!).
ARC and other popular commercial high end efforts are not significantly
better than reworked Marantz 7s and even more expensive than a real 7C.

With CD players, get a moderately priced one and do not upgrade it.
Instead buy a good outboard DAC. If you get an outboard DAC insist,
demand, it satisfactorily drive your power amp directly. In my opinion
the Benchmark DAC is as good as any.

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote in message
oups.com...
Margaret's audio gourmet thread was fun. That gave me the idea for this
one.

Rate each component in the audio chain by percentage of importance in
the overall sound or enjoyment of your system. For the sake of
argument, assume a well-recorded source (CD, LP, etc.) with no physical
problems.

Speaker
Room interaction with the speaker
Power amplifier(s)
Speaker cable
CD/DVD player
Preamplifier
Audio interconnects
Power cords/power conditioners
Stand
'Tweaks'

For those who listen to vinyl:

Turntable
Tonearm
Cartridge
Phono preamp

For those who listen to tubed equipment:

Tube brand or type

Feel free to add items that I overlooked, or to disregard any of these
that I've placed on the list if they have no importance to you.

Here's mine:

55% Speaker
10% Room interaction with the speaker
0% Speaker cable
4% Power amplifier(s)
5% Preamplifier
4% CD/DVD player
2% Audio interconnects
0% Power cords
0% Stand
2% 'Tweaks'
3% Tube brand or type
4% Turntable
2% Tonearm
6% Cartridge
3% Phono preamp

Here's mine, in order from most important to least:
Speaker
Room interaction with the speaker
Power amplifier(s)
Stand
Speaker cable
CD/DVD player
Preamplifier
Audio interconnects
Power cords/power conditioners
'Tweaks'

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason! wrote:
Margaret's audio gourmet thread was fun. That gave me the idea for this
one.

Rate each component in the audio chain by percentage of importance in
the overall sound or enjoyment of your system. For the sake of
argument, assume a well-recorded source (CD, LP, etc.) with no physical
problems.


FIRST Room interaction with the speaker

SECOND Speaker (including speaker management -- bass, delay, level)

everything else DISTANT THIRD, except for room EQ.

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" said:

55% Speaker
10% Room interaction with the speaker


The latter figure is "slightly" higher IME.

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" said:

55% Speaker
10% Room interaction with the speaker


The latter figure is "slightly" higher IME.

Agree absolutely. Probably more like 55% and 35%.

Without taming the room the best speakers won't sound as good as they
should.

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason! wrote:

Rate each component in the audio chain by percentage of importance in
the overall sound or enjoyment of your system. For the sake of
argument, assume a well-recorded source (CD, LP, etc.) with no physical
problems.

Most important: room interaction with the speaker.

Second: speaker.

No importance: speaker cables, interconnects, power amplifier(s),
preamplifier, CD/DVD player if well designed.

No importance: power cords, power conditioner, equipment stand.

Important: speaker stands for small speakers.

_Maybe_ 1%: tweaks. But please no green ink, cable risers, air
bladders,
etc.

I have assumed that the equipment is not ugly and at least looks good
and that one knows how to choose a component. I have not given many
percentages, because it is difficult to do so.

--124

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" said:

55% Speaker
10% Room interaction with the speaker


The latter figure is "slightly" higher IME.

Agreed. If you move good speakers between different rooms there's a tendency
to hear bigger differences than if you switch (level-matched, bias
controlled) among good speakers in the same room.

Signal wrote
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" emitted :



Margaret's audio gourmet thread was fun. That gave me the idea for this
one.

Rate each component in the audio chain by percentage ...


'Tweaks'
100%

Oh Yeah! Same here. This always put us in the good mood, oh yeah.
.... well, what happen if we're not in the good mood... hmm. Wait !
I thought hi-fi help to induce good mood.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" said:

55% Speaker
10% Room interaction with the speaker


The latter figure is "slightly" higher IME.

Agreed. If you move good speakers between different rooms there's a
tendency to hear bigger differences than if you switch (level-matched,
bias controlled) among good speakers in the same room.


Note:
That 'assumption' has not been properly ABX'ed, level matched, and eyes
gouged out.



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

From: "124"
Date: 11 Jan 2006 07:28:35 -0800

_Maybe_ 1%: tweaks. But please no green ink, cable risers, air
bladders, etc.

Perhaps a definition of 'tweaks' is in order...

The 2% tweaks in my list refers to spikes I put under my speakers to
raise them off the floor. Maybe that's actually a necessity.:-)

I do have one CD that was treated with green ink. It's a MFSL that I
bought used on ebay. It came that way.

From: Walt
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:47:51 -0500

50% My mood or attitude

A great addition. Some of the 'best' music I've ever heard was hanging
out with friends, sucking down a couple of beers, and listening to
music on a cheap boom box. It had to be my mood. It certainly wasn't
the sound quality.

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote:

From: Walt
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:47:51 -0500

50% My mood or attitude

A great addition. Some of the 'best' music I've ever heard was hanging
out with friends, sucking down a couple of beers, and listening to
music on a cheap boom box. It had to be my mood. It certainly wasn't
the sound quality.

Tetrahydrocannabinol works wonders for sound.

Graham

From: Pooh Bear
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 02:10:48 +0000

Tetrahydrocannabinol works wonders for sound.

Do you treat your CDs with it? Does it increase 'high' frequency
response?

PoopieNerd said:

Tetrahydrocannabinol works wonders for sound.

Ya reckin'? Those darn "audiophools" and their durned designer drugs.
Haw, haw, haw.

"124" wrote

No importance: speaker cables, interconnects,
power amplifier(s), preamplifier, CD/DVD player
if well designed.

Do you shop exclusively at appliance stores?


No importance: power cords, power conditioner,
equipment stand.

How would you know?


Important: speaker stands for small speakers.

Works for larger speakers, too. But there
are few products available for this purpose.

wrote

Without taming the room the best speakers
won't sound as good as they should.

What acoustic dampening products are you using
now? In what configuration?

"Robert Morein" wrote

Here's mine, in order from most important to least:
Speaker
Room interaction with the speaker
Power amplifier(s)

Well, maybe. Depends on speaker demands.


Stand
Speaker cable

Speaker cable this high in ranking. Why?


CD/DVD player
Preamplifier

Preamps next to interconnects you must
be kidding. I'd put them before power amps.


Audio interconnects
Power cords/power conditioners

Not so with power conditioners. Oh, I forgot,
you don't have any experience with them.

"Bret Ludwig" wrote

Instead buy a good outboard DAC. If you get an
outboard DAC insist, demand, it satisfactorily
drive your power amp directly. In my opinion
the Benchmark DAC is as good as any.

What is the voltage output RMS?

"Good as any"... what other variable DAC's
have you used in your setup?

From: "Bret Ludwig"
Date: 10 Jan 2006 07:56:53 -0800

I do tend to prefer tube phono stages, particularly those using 90
volt TV front end tubes (6DJ8s).

This may be more appropriate for rec.audio.tubes, but since you brought
it up...

I'm in the process of designing a pair of monoblocks based on the
Marantz Model 9. Any recommendations on 6DJ8/6922/7308s?

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" said:

I'm in the process of designing a pair of monoblocks based on the
Marantz Model 9. Any recommendations on 6DJ8/6922/7308s?


Microphonics are your worst enemy in tube phono stages.
IMO NOS Telefunken are hard to beat.
Philips E88CC is next best, but test them thoroughly for microphonics.
As with all NOS tubes, expect that the best tubes are already pulled
from the stash.........

Current production JJ Tesla is usually good wrt. microphonics.

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

Pooh Bear wrote:

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote:

A great addition. Some of the 'best' music I've ever heard was hanging
out with friends, sucking down a couple of beers, and listening to
music on a cheap boom box. It had to be my mood. It certainly wasn't
the sound quality.

Tetrahydrocannabinol works wonders for sound.

One of the cheapest "upgrades" around! 8)

Pooh Bear wrote:
Tetrahydrocannabinol works wonders for sound.

It certainly got me through CES last week.

Boon

Signal wrote
EddieM emitted :

Margaret's audio gourmet thread was fun. That gave me
the idea for this one.

Rate each component in the audio chain by percentage ...


'Tweaks'
100%

Oh Yeah! Same here. This always put us in the good mood, oh yeah.
... well, what happen if we're not in the good mood... hmm. Wait !
I thought hi-fi help to induce good mood.

Dunno what yr on about mate ;-)


I like hi-fi with lotsa tweaks. Tweaks are good.

It's good for the mind, body, and soul.

Tweak is it.

--
S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t

wrote in message
oups.com...

Pooh Bear wrote:
Tetrahydrocannabinol works wonders for sound.

It certainly got me through CES last week.


Not to mention the snack bar!



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

Powell wrote:

"124" wrote

No importance: speaker cables, interconnects,
power amplifier(s), preamplifier, CD/DVD player
if well designed.

Do you shop exclusively at appliance stores?

No.

No importance: power cords, power conditioner,
equipment stand.

How would you know?

How would _you_ know?

Important: speaker stands for small speakers.

Works for larger speakers, too.

How would you know?

But there are few products available for this purpose.

Why?

--124

"Powell" wrote in message
...

"124" wrote

No importance: speaker cables, interconnects,
power amplifier(s), preamplifier, CD/DVD player
if well designed.

Do you shop exclusively at appliance stores?

Actually, appliance stores do a pretty good job of hyping speaker cables and
interconnects these days.

No importance: power cords, power conditioner,
equipment stand.

How would you know?

Personal experience.

Important: speaker stands for small speakers.

Works for larger speakers, too.

Agreed.

But there are few products available for this purpose.

Huh?

"Powell" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote

Here's mine, in order from most important to least:
Speaker
Room interaction with the speaker
Power amplifier(s)

Well, maybe. Depends on speaker demands.


Stand
Speaker cable

Speaker cable this high in ranking. Why?


CD/DVD player
Preamplifier

Preamps next to interconnects you must
be kidding. I'd put them before power amps.


Audio interconnects
Power cords/power conditioners

Not so with power conditioners. Oh, I forgot,
you don't have any experience with them.



Isn't there one in every component? :-)
Aren't they called bridge rectifiers?

wrote in message
ink.net...

"Powell" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote

Here's mine, in order from most important to least:
Speaker
Room interaction with the speaker
Power amplifier(s)

Well, maybe. Depends on speaker demands.

Stand
Speaker cable

Speaker cable this high in ranking. Why?

Good question. The preamp or optical player would seem to be a better bet.

CD/DVD player
Preamplifier

Preamps next to interconnects you must
be kidding. I'd put them before power amps.

Agreed. Generally inconsequential, but...

Audio interconnects
Power cords/power conditioners

Not so with power conditioners. Oh, I forgot,
you don't have any experience with them.

Getting experience with power conditioners is something like failing an IQ
test. I admit it, I have one but it was a gift.

Isn't there one in every component? :-)
Aren't they called bridge rectifiers?

More like the power transformer.

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote in message
ups.com...
From: Pooh Bear
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 02:10:48 +0000

Tetrahydrocannabinol works wonders for sound.

Do you treat your CDs with it? Does it increase 'high' frequency
response?

It makes it all sound like, you know, better.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ink.net...

"Powell" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote

Here's mine, in order from most important to least:
Speaker
Room interaction with the speaker
Power amplifier(s)

Well, maybe. Depends on speaker demands.

Stand
Speaker cable

Speaker cable this high in ranking. Why?

Good question. The preamp or optical player would seem to be a better bet.

CD/DVD player
Preamplifier

Preamps next to interconnects you must
be kidding. I'd put them before power amps.

Agreed. Generally inconsequential, but...

Audio interconnects
Power cords/power conditioners

Not so with power conditioners. Oh, I forgot,
you don't have any experience with them.

Getting experience with power conditioners is something like failing an IQ
test. I admit it, I have one but it was a gift.

Isn't there one in every component? :-)
Aren't they called bridge rectifiers?

More like the power transformer.

I stand corrected. Been a very long time since I had occaison to study that.
IIRC the BR smoothes out the ripple from AC, no?

wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ink.net...

"Powell" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote

Here's mine, in order from most important to least:
Speaker
Room interaction with the speaker
Power amplifier(s)

Well, maybe. Depends on speaker demands.

Stand
Speaker cable

Speaker cable this high in ranking. Why?

Good question. The preamp or optical player would seem to be a better bet.

CD/DVD player
Preamplifier

Preamps next to interconnects you must
be kidding. I'd put them before power amps.

Agreed. Generally inconsequential, but...

Audio interconnects
Power cords/power conditioners

Not so with power conditioners. Oh, I forgot,
you don't have any experience with them.

Getting experience with power conditioners is something like failing an IQ
test. I admit it, I have one but it was a gift.

Isn't there one in every component? :-)
Aren't they called bridge rectifiers?

More like the power transformer.

I stand corrected. Been a very long time since I had occaison to study that.
IIRC the BR smoothes out the ripple from AC, no?

The reservoir caps do that ( smooth the ripple from the rectified AC ).

Graham

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote:

From: Pooh Bear
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 02:10:48 +0000

Tetrahydrocannabinol works wonders for sound.

Do you treat your CDs with it? Does it increase 'high' frequency
response?

You treat the listener ! It actually works too. ;-)

Graham

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...


wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ink.net...

"Powell" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote

Here's mine, in order from most important to least:
Speaker
Room interaction with the speaker
Power amplifier(s)

Well, maybe. Depends on speaker demands.

Stand
Speaker cable

Speaker cable this high in ranking. Why?

Good question. The preamp or optical player would seem to be a better
bet.

CD/DVD player
Preamplifier

Preamps next to interconnects you must
be kidding. I'd put them before power amps.

Agreed. Generally inconsequential, but...

Audio interconnects
Power cords/power conditioners

Not so with power conditioners. Oh, I forgot,
you don't have any experience with them.

Getting experience with power conditioners is something like failing an
IQ
test. I admit it, I have one but it was a gift.

Isn't there one in every component? :-)
Aren't they called bridge rectifiers?

More like the power transformer.

I stand corrected. Been a very long time since I had occaison to study
that.
IIRC the BR smoothes out the ripple from AC, no?

The reservoir caps do that ( smooth the ripple from the rectified AC ).

Graham


Been way too long since I cracked a book on this stuff.

said:

Been way too long since I cracked a book on this stuff.


Just stop searching for GW and political sites on Google and take some
time to read this instead:
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampins/ampins.htm

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

wrote

Been way too long since I cracked a book...

This is apparent on many levels.

"Arny Krueger" wrote

Do you shop exclusively at appliance stores?

Actually, appliance stores do a pretty good job of
hyping speaker cables and interconnects these days.

Yes, have you seen the rush to produce pricey
HDMI/DVI cables. Maybe I'll have to get one.

"124" wrote

No importance: speaker cables, interconnects,
power amplifier(s), preamplifier, CD/DVD player
if well designed.

Do you shop exclusively at appliance stores?

No.

Yea, so whaaaaat?


No importance: power cords, power conditioner,
equipment stand.

How would you know?

How would _you_ know?

Quack, quack, quack...


Important: speaker stands for small speakers.

Works for larger speakers, too.

How would you know?

Empirical and analytical experiences.


But there are few products available for this purpose.

Why?

Some reasons include:
* Problem matching of widely varying differences
in speaker base sizes.
* Cost to manufacture.
* The lack of choices for height sizes needed for
optimum fidelity.

"Sander deWaal" wrote

I'm in the process of designing a pair of monoblocks
based on the Marantz Model 9. Any recommendations
on 6DJ8/6922/7308s?


Microphonics are your worst enemy in tube phono stages.

True, and there are helpful tube dampening mechanisms
to reduce microphonics.


IMO NOS Telefunken are hard to beat.
Philips E88CC is next best, but test them thoroughly
for microphonics. As with all NOS tubes, expect that
the best tubes are already pulled from the stash.........

I've used six different brands of 6922/6DJ8 low noise
variants in a ARC-LS2. The Sovtek was, for me, the
best sounding.


Current production JJ Tesla is usually good wrt.
microphonics.

Last year I switched out the Penta-China tubes
in my microphone preamp for highly sorted
RAM - Sovtek 12AX7 from:
http://www.tubeaudiostore.com.
Best Sovteck yet.