On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 18:46:07 +0000, Junk wrote:

Gordon wrote:

On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 17:29:00 +0200, kenny wrote:

Ubuntu indeed is on the right track...
It still needs work....

Like what? You install it, you set up your email account in Evolution, you
start using open office. What more "work" is needed?


Some of use like to use our PCs for more than just email, internet and word
processing. Things like audio and music recording, editing and Cd burning;
video capture, editing, MPEG (divx/xvid) encoding, DVD burning; scanning
and printing (how come Linux takes sooooooo long to print a photo out -
were talking half an hour for an A4 as opposed to about 10 minutes in
Widows??); DTP.. etc. etc. etc.



As DFS posted after working through the numbers:

One successful install every 12 seconds
One successful uninstall every 12.05 seconds

Installs: (60*60*24)/12 ~ 7200
Uninstalls: (60*60*24)/12.05 ~ 7170
Net growth: 30 Suse users per day.

Sounds about right (maybe a little high)


Now, I'm fully aware there *are* programs that allows me to do most of the
above (except scanning, Linux never has supported my scanner), but the
quality of these bigger applications pails in comparison to the Windows
equivalents.


Linux applications are for the most part crude and half done.
And even when they are truly commercial quality, like Gimp for example,
there is always a trade off.
In the case of Gimp, the interface is absolutely horrible.


And if you compare the 'feel' of most Linux applications compared to the
Windows equivalents, Linux seems cheap and tacky - screen redraws and
general graphic refresh is very notably slow and flickery, audio has
annoying delays and - at least on every system I've had Linux on -
distorted and clipped..there's little in the way of feedback when
processing in going to take more than a few seconds (just try Krita with a
8mpix digital camera image - half the time you think the program has
crashed).... and I could go on (and on and on).. but I wont.

Same experience here. Try getting 2 applications to access the audio card
at the same time.
Either you will get a message saying "cannot open /dev/dsp" or something
similar, or you will get skipping sound or nothing at all and the
application will just hang.

Video with Linux is also horrible.
Slow and sluggish.
Drag windows around on the screen and you get trails and ghost images.
It's terrible and I have seen this on every single Linux system I have
ever worked with.


Oh, and then there's the "fun" processes of trying to get things like Flash
Player working in both Firefox and Konqueror...

Not to mention java and other plugins that websites like to use.

Your post is going to generate a lot of:

Lienix "Advocate's" Technique #8

"Works For Me"
This one is the catchall response to a person who is having trouble
with Lienix. Simply say "*insert distro here* works for me""
Don't worry if you are not using the same distribution of Lienix and make
certain to ignore the possiblility that your hardware may be different
from the other persons.
Don't worry because the other cult members will come to your aid and back
up anything you say.


--
Never trust a Linux Advocate.
Words are cheap. Linux advocates' words are worthless.
Linux..If you think you hate it now..wait until you try it.

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On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 14:52:16 -0500,
Linux Exposer wrote:


snip some garbage

Same experience here. Try getting 2 applications to access the audio card
at the same time.
Either you will get a message saying "cannot open /dev/dsp" or something
similar, or you will get skipping sound or nothing at all and the
application will just hang.


Please catch up with the current state of the world. Sharing soundcards
works well with Linux now. Either via hardware mixer, if the soundcard
supports it, or via the software mixer in the sound system.

Amarok is running on my wife's machine now, and her gaim notifications
are coming through normally. Nothing had to be tweaked, poked, or
adjusted, it simply worked from the install.



Video with Linux is also horrible.
Slow and sluggish.
Drag windows around on the screen and you get trails and ghost images.
It's terrible and I have seen this on every single Linux system I have
ever worked with.


depends entirely on the hardware. I have a fairly slow laptop (by
today's standards, it's three years old) 1GHz, 512M RAM, nVidia G2force
card, and don't experience the problems you mention.




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--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
E pluribus Linux

"SUSE Linux is installed more than 7,000 times every day"

And I feel like at least 700 of them were my attempts! :-)

"Jim Richardson" wrote in message
...
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On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 14:52:16 -0500,
Linux Exposer wrote:


snip some garbage

Same experience here. Try getting 2 applications to access the audio card
at the same time.
Either you will get a message saying "cannot open /dev/dsp" or something
similar, or you will get skipping sound or nothing at all and the
application will just hang.


Please catch up with the current state of the world. Sharing soundcards
works well with Linux now. Either via hardware mixer, if the soundcard
supports it, or via the software mixer in the sound system.

Amarok is running on my wife's machine now, and her gaim notifications
are coming through normally. Nothing had to be tweaked, poked, or
adjusted, it simply worked from the install.



Video with Linux is also horrible.
Slow and sluggish.
Drag windows around on the screen and you get trails and ghost images.
It's terrible and I have seen this on every single Linux system I have
ever worked with.


depends entirely on the hardware. I have a fairly slow laptop (by
today's standards, it's three years old) 1GHz, 512M RAM, nVidia G2force
card, and don't experience the problems you mention.

I find it amusing that Linux users sound so enthusiastic about their OS
being able to perform the simplest of tasks.

On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 22:31:09 +0000, James Price wrote:


I find it amusing that Linux users sound so enthusiastic about their OS
being able to perform the simplest of tasks.

I hear ya'!
To appreciate this you have to think with a Lienix user mentality which is
ANY SUPPORT, ANYTHING, is better than NOTHING.
IOW put a picture on the screen at 640x480 and the card is supported.
Make a squeek and the audio card works.
Forget about using all the other outputs / inputs on the card.

It took YEARS for Linux to support the popular SBLive (a **** audio card,
but highly popular) and by the time Lienix supported it (Creative tried
but abandoned it's support way back) there were several new versions of
the chipset and Lienix had to start all over again.

Lienix is ALWAYS behind the curve.

Then we have ATI video cards which were never really supported so the
GATOS project was created.

IOW you could spend a week trying to get a raster on the screen and forget
about all the advanced features of the card, features you paid for,
because they didn't work.

So ATI finally comes around, sort of, because Nvidia does a decent job of
supporting Lienix, although not as good as with Windows. But the ATI
support is buggy, featureless and as is usually the case with Lienix, half
assed and half done.

So you see, when a Lienix advocate can squawk about playing 2 sounds at
once, it's a big thing for them....

now, let's talk about applications like Protools, Cubase etc.....

Lienix........

Lienix......

Hello????

Testing 1 2 3....

Has anyone seen Mike Hunt??.....errrr. lienix....
Sorry.......


--
Never trust a Linux Advocate.
Words are cheap. Linux advocates' words are worthless.
Linux..If you think you hate it now..wait until you try it.

The racist, liar and software thief Linux Exposer (flatfish) nymshifted:

snip flatfish droppings

You lately nymshifted to

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Anna Banger, anonymous, Archie, Archie Moss Bunker, Archie Watermann, Baba
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Choppers McGee, Chris Thomas, Christine Abernathy, Claire Lynn, Clippy,
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Dugan, Kent Dorfman, Kyle Cadet, L Didio, Laura Shillingford, Le Farter, Le
Yammy, Les Turner, Leslie Bassman, Lilly, Lindy, Linux Exposer, Lisa
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, nate_mcspook, okto_pussy, OSS KDE User, Paddy
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Phillip Cornwall, phoung, phoung quoak, pickle_pete, **** Clam, Poopy Pants
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Sherlock Holmes , Simon, sista sledgehammer, slacker.mcspritze,
Spammy_Davis, spanny_davis, Stephan Simonsen, Stephanie Mannerz, Stephen,
Stephen Olsen, Stephen Townshend, SuckyB, SunnyB, Susan Bladder, Susan
Lapinski, Susan Wong, Suzie Wong, Swampee, Ted Bennington, Terri Sorensen,
The Beaver, Thorsten, Timmy Luncford , Toby Rastus Roosovelt III, Tomas
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Dennison, Tracee, Traci, trailerpark, Trina Swallows, Trolly, Trudi
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Wang Mycock, Wasser, Wendy Duzz, Whizzer, Wilbur J, Willy Wong, Winnie
Septos, Wobbles, Yanick Schmuley and zyklon_C.
Plus many, many, many more.
--
To mess up a Linux box, you need to work at it.
To mess up your Windows box, you just need to work on it.

[snips]

Linux Exposer wrote:

I hear ya'!
To appreciate this you have to think with a Lienix user mentality which is
ANY SUPPORT, ANYTHING, is better than NOTHING.

Correct.

IOW put a picture on the screen at 640x480 and the card is supported.

Is supported _better than not having any display_ - i.e., better than
nothing. You managed to forget that part, and it only took you what, three
lines to do it?

Make a squeek and the audio card works.

Better than no sound at all; if nothing else, it demonstrates that the card
is hooked up correctly, speakers work, etc. Which is, in fact, better than
no sound, leaving the user no clue where the problem may lay. Again, it's
better than _nothing_, the part you forgot. Kinda short attention span
there, eh?

Forget about using all the other outputs / inputs on the card.

Yup, forget about 'em - until you've solved the basic issue, assuming there
is one, but, where there _is_ one, give the user as many clues as possible
how to track the problem down. Such as emitting a squeak, if that's all
that can be done.

It took YEARS for Linux to support the popular SBLive

Of course, Creative open-sourced its drivers for, say, Windows, so that
someone other than them could work on the problem, right? Whoops, nope.
But Creative actually did a good, solid, reliable job of porting the
drivers, right? Whoops, nope.

What possible relevance Creative's failure to write a driver has to the
quality or usability of an OS isn't clear.

Lienix is ALWAYS behind the curve.

No idea what "Lienix" is, but Linux is frequently leading the curve. Tell
us again exactly how many of the world's fastest computers are built on
Windows? Tell us again exactly how many versions of Windows come with
source, so you can tailor the system to your needs - something I'm doing
right now, with Linux, as a matter of fact, because a server should _not_
be running unnecessary code - like a GUI - and in fact shouldn't even have
unwanted drivers, etc, built in.

Heh. I'm putting together a kernel which supports basically one SCSI
controller and two NICs, and effectively nothing else - because that's what
the box needs to do its job. Nothing more. So how does one uninstall the
GUI and other unwanted, unnecessary crap from a Windows server, stuff
which, if left behind, is just one more point of failure?

Right, you can't. Okay, I'll give you this one; Windows is leading the
curve, into the realm of the absolutely insane.

Then we have ATI video cards which were never really supported so the
GATOS project was created.

Golly gee. A vendor can't get their act together, it's the OS's fault.
Well, it could be, assuming the OS's underlying mechanics for supporting
drivers changed enough, version to version, to necessitate it, but
otherwise, you're just babbling again.

IOW you could spend a week trying to get a raster on the screen and forget
about all the advanced features of the card, features you paid for,
because they didn't work.

Or you could install Linux, have it boot up, detect your hardware, support
it, configure it and use it, and you wouldn't have to spend the week
chasing around after driver CDs... er... you *were* whining about how
Windows makes you go through all those stupid hoops, whereas Linux simply
includes the support, right?

So ATI finally comes around, sort of, because Nvidia does a decent job of
supporting Lienix, although not as good as with Windows. But the ATI
support is buggy, featureless and as is usually the case with Lienix, half
assed and half done.

So don't use ATI. Big whoop. I don't blame Ford because Pirelli doesn't
make a model of their top-end tires for the F-150. Talk to the vendor, ask
them why they can't get the job done. Meanwhile, the OS works like a charm
- and their competitor's card works just fine, thanks.

'Course, you're just a nym-shifting troll, so I don't expect you to have the
capacity to actually grasp the significance of any of this.