Hi,
I have just built a computer for doing video editing and audio
recording among other things. I purchased the M-Audio Delta 1010 LT
and I am now thinking this may not be what I need. I considered the
1010, but seeing the main difference between the two is that the 1010
has all balanced audio inputs where the 1010LT only has 2, I opted for
the more budget-friendly LT. I also liked the fact that the LT has 2
mic preamps. Some saleman at a local shop told me that the LT had
Phantom Power. Well that's obviously not true and I just purchased two
condenser mics for recording piano and other instruments. I've heard
the preamps on the LT aren't that great anyway. But I could switch a
jumper on the card so the 2 XLR plugs will accept line levels rather
than mic levels. Since I need phantom power, I was thinking about just
getting a multichannel preamp with phantom power. If I'm doing that, I
probably should have just purchased like an 8 channel mixer with
firewire output and done recording that way instead of this 1010LT. I'm
only needing to record 2 channels at a time for now.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do? I could get
some kind of phantom power box and record with the LT's preamps. I
could get a preamp box that had phantom power and at least 2 channels.
If I get more than 2 channels on a preamp box, I would be set up to
record more than 2 channels at a time, which is what I plan to
eventually do anyway. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
Josh

hackerjosh wrote:

I purchased the M-Audio Delta 1010 LT
and I am now thinking this may not be what I need. I considered the
1010, but seeing the main difference between the two is that the 1010
has all balanced audio inputs where the 1010LT only has 2, I opted for
the more budget-friendly LT.

Some saleman at a local shop told me that the LT had
Phantom Power. Well that's obviously not true

Since I need phantom power, I was thinking about just
getting a multichannel preamp with phantom power. If I'm doing that, I
probably should have just purchased like an 8 channel mixer with
firewire output and done recording that way instead of this 1010LT. I'm
only needing to record 2 channels at a time for now.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do?

Take the LT back to your friendly salesman, tell him that it really
doesn't have phantom power that you need, and that you want something
else or you want a refund. Go to a different store where the salesmen
are smarter if necessary.

You could get an outboard phantom power supply, or an outbouard mic
preamp and continue to use the 1010 LT. You could get a modest
two-channel Firewire or USB interface with combination mic/line inputs
and phantom power like perhaps the Presonus Firebox.

Unless you need a mixer, I'd stay away away from a mixer with a
Firewire interface. It's a great idea for certain applicaitons, but
tends to be somewhat befuddling for more conventional studio
applications.

hackerjosh wrote:

Hi,

I have just built a computer for doing video editing and audio
recording among other things. I purchased the M-Audio Delta
1010 LT and I am now thinking this may not be what I need.

Hmmm ... ultimately that is for you yourself to decide.

I considered the 1010, but seeing the main difference between
the two is that the 1010 has all balanced audio inputs where
the 1010LT only has 2, I opted for the more budget-friendly LT.

I like having a 1010LT in one of my machines because it allows me to
have inputs set up for different sources and to skip all input
switching, just have all sources ready wired.

I also liked the fact that the LT has 2 mic preamps. Some saleman
at a local shop told me that the LT had Phantom Power.

It comes in a box with a full and reasonably correct description printed
on the outside. By common sense if you asked for phantom and it was
misrepresented then there is what I would think a good reason for
wanting a full refund. It may be an excellent shop, all people goof
occasionally, but it is not good if they misrepresent their merchandize
too often.

Well that's obviously not true and I just purchased two
condenser mics for recording piano and other instruments.

Use more time webbrowsing and read the stuff the manufacturer makes
available if shops near your are so poorly equipped with quality staff.

I've heard the preamps on the LT aren't that great anyway.

I have never listened to them, in fact I have never used inputs 1 and 2.

But I could switch a jumper on the card so the 2 XLR plugs will
accept line levels rather than mic levels.

Good idea. It is practical, but not critical, to have a pair of balanced
inputs.

Since I need phantom power, I was thinking about just
getting a multichannel preamp with phantom power.

And a suitable one may have balanced outputs, in which case it would be
preferable to have the 1010. What made me choose the 1010LT was budget,
unbalanced sources and that I wanted to have the option of monitoring a
5+1 mix since Audition can make one.

If I'm doing that, I
probably should have just purchased like an 8 channel mixer with
firewire output and done recording that way instead of this 1010LT. I'm
only needing to record 2 channels at a time for now.

Then an Audiophile 2496 or a DiO 2496 or any other good two channel card
might be all you need.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do?

Return the 1010 LT for a refund or a partial refund and a Delta
Audiophile 2496 or another good stereo card and perhaps a decent quality
two channel mic pre. Preferably just return the 1010LT for a refund and
then plan properly prior to purchasing.

I could get some kind of phantom power box and record with
the LT's preamps.

The AP 2496 - to me - sounds better than the 1010LT, it should be the
same, but perhaps the less dense pcb is the explanation. As for mic pre,
your recording is not going to be better than what it permits. I know
what I would probably go for if I had to shop for one today, but I will
rather leave the suggestions to those that know the currently available
ones.

I could get a preamp box that had phantom power and at least
2 channels. If I get more than 2 channels on a preamp box,
I would be set up to record more than 2 channels at a time,
which is what I plan to eventually do anyway. Any and all
advice would be greatly appreciated.

Alesis have a small mixer with firewire output, I understood the
description to imply that it allows recording each input separately
pre-fader and ones monitor mix for reference. In terms of functionality
it seems that it may be what you need. As for whether it also is that in
terms of quality is another issue.

The complex, and good solution probably is a quality 8 channel mic pre
with balanced outputs and a 1010, the simple and good solution is likely
to be a quality mic pre and an AP2496, the most functinoality for the
dollar solution could be the Alesis mixer with firewire. In which case
you might want an AP2496 for monitoring when mixing and mastering
anyway.

All of the above possibly foggy late evening after a good dinner
thinking ... perhaps someone will be able to make different or better
suggestions, it may also be that the 1010 LT is the correct choice,
using money on balanced inputs is not always the most vital parameter.
Putting the same money on top of the transducer or mic pre budget(s) may
be wiser. Mostly I feel that you should bail out, get a refund and make
a better equipment plan based on a better analysis of what you will now
and later. You should also investigate whether a dedicated harddisk
recorder is a better choice for you to record on even if you do want to
mix and master on a computer.

To some extent all of the above also is a matter of what genre of music
you want to record where, you may get sugggestions that are more to the
point by explaining that.

Thanks.
Josh


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

Mike Rivers wrote:

Unless you need a mixer, I'd stay away away from a mixer with a
Firewire interface. It's a great idea for certain applicaitons,
but tends to be somewhat befuddling for more conventional studio
applications.

The simplest possible tool is indeed often a good choice.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

"hackerjosh" wrote in message
oups.com
Hi,
I have just built a computer for doing video editing and
audio recording among other things. I purchased the
M-Audio Delta 1010 LT and I am now thinking this may not
be what I need. I considered the 1010, but seeing the
main difference between the two is that the 1010 has all
balanced audio inputs where the 1010LT only has 2, I
opted for the more budget-friendly LT. I also liked the
fact that the LT has 2 mic preamps. Some saleman at a
local shop told me that the LT had Phantom Power. Well
that's obviously not true and I just purchased two
condenser mics for recording piano and other instruments.
I've heard the preamps on the LT aren't that great
anyway. But I could switch a jumper on the card so the 2
XLR plugs will accept line levels rather than mic levels.
Since I need phantom power, I was thinking about just
getting a multichannel preamp with phantom power. If I'm
doing that, I probably should have just purchased like an
8 channel mixer with firewire output and done recording
that way instead of this 1010LT. I'm only needing to
record 2 channels at a time for now.


Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do?

I use my 1010LTs with external preamps and/or mixers that have phantom
power.

Right now my 1 1010LTs are hung off the direct outs of an 02R96 via
Behringer ADA8000s.

They used to be hung off the inserts of a Mackie SR32.

They've done time hooked to the outputs of a Symmetrix SX202 and a number of
other preamps.

I could get some kind of phantom power box and record
with the LT's preamps.

Phantom power boxes generally cost the same or more as preamps and small
mixers that are probably as good as the ones in the 1010LT.

Thanks for you insightful reply. Let me make a disclaimer and say I am
very new to the whole audio field. Some may say I am jumping in too
soon and buying things without knowing what I am really doing. I'm
trying to get up and going soon so resources like this group are
essential to me.

Just for clarification for you and Mike, I didn't actually buy the
1010LT from the shop of which I spoke. I actually got the card on ebay,
so now I'm stuck with it. Oh well, I've learned my lesson. Now, I'd
like to get whatever else I need to make it work. We do some filming
and video work of live events. I was thinking more about it and I
originally wanted this card for audio recording that kind of thing. It
would be perfect to use if the system at the place I was recording at
had direct outs. It isn't the best for studio work as a stand alone
card. And I'd like to be able to do both live multichannel recording
and studio recording with it.

On a side note, It seems like some of these guys at shops think they
know what they're talking about when they don't. One of them basically
told me since the 1010 had all balanced connections, all the channels
had preamps. Another guy said since the LT had 2 preamps, they also had
phantom power. Oh well, I guess this just forces me to know my stuff to
know what I need.

So I'll plan to either go with a mixer with direct outs or something or
just an 8 channel preamp. I guess this will be a plus as I'll be set up
to just plug 8 mics into the system and record rather than just the two
that have preamps. The only problem is that I'm spending more than I
initial planned to. Oh well, such is life.

Thanks.
Josh

Thanks for sharing specific models that you use. The ADA8000 seems to
be fairly reasonably priced. If I may ask, and this is probably a dumb
question, but why do you need the digital interface of the ADA8000 if
you're using the 1010LT? Would you recommend a preamp without the
digital that I should use with my 1010LT?

Thanks.
Josh

hackerjosh wrote:
Thanks for sharing specific models that you use. The ADA8000 seems to
be fairly reasonably priced. If I may ask, and this is probably a dumb
question, but why do you need the digital interface of the ADA8000 if
you're using the 1010LT?

You don't, but you won't find that many mic preamps in a box for less
money. The "you get what you pay for" principle applies, of course, but
there's a point in quality below which you just can't go (and these
days that's still usuable for many applications). So if you can get
minimum usable quality for a very low price, it's worth trying for your
applicaiton. If your interest is recording quiet folk singers playing
dulcimers, you probalby should aim higher.

But if you're recording a garage band with cheap mics and need more mic
inputs for your drums so you can have too much hi-hat, the ADA-8000,
ignoring the digital outputs, might be a cheap way to get there.

"hackerjosh" wrote in message
oups.com

On a side note, It seems like some of these guys at shops
think they know what they're talking about when they
don't. One of them basically told me since the 1010 had
all balanced connections,

True for the 1010 inputs, not true for the 1010LT.

all the channels had preamps.

Not true for any of the inputs on a 1010, but true for inputs 1 and 2 on the
1010LT.

Another guy said since the LT had 2 preamps, they also
had phantom power.

As you know, he was wrong about that!

So I'll plan to either go with a mixer with direct outs
or something or just an 8 channel preamp.

Inserts and the right wiring is all that you need. That should make finding
the mixer easier.

I guess this
will be a plus as I'll be set up to just plug 8 mics into
the system and record rather than just the two that have
preamps. The only problem is that I'm spending more than
I initial planned to. Oh well, such is life.

If you want a dirt-cheap 8-input mic preamp there is always the SM Pro Audio
PR-8 and its complement over at Nady. Poor build quality, poor QC, but
there are 8 mic preamps and they all have phantoming.

"hackerjosh" wrote in message
ups.com

Thanks for sharing specific models that you use. The
ADA8000 seems to be fairly reasonably priced. If I may
ask, and this is probably a dumb question, but why do you
need the digital interface of the ADA8000 if you're using
the 1010LT?

The 02R96 does not have a lot of analog outputs, but its easy enough to add
more with the ADA8000.

Would you recommend a preamp without the
digital that I should use with my 1010LT?

Depends what your price range is. I mentioned two cheapies in another post.
As you move up the price scale there are more, probably better alternatives
that I have no personal experience with.

Ok, after googling with all of my free time the past two days, I have
actually learned some about this stuff. I'm trying to keep in mind that
the weakest part of my system will not perform better with better
quality other equipment. So, good mics won't make bad preamps good and
the reverse is also true. I already have the 1010LT, which is
unbalanced, and I think this will be okay for my purposes. I also have
some microphones that I am planning to use. I have a Shure SM58 and two
Rode NT5 condenser mics. Now I want a mixer/preamps that will match the
quality of these mics and my 1010LT.

I know some people will say for me to go by my own experience and what
sounds good to me. Well, I don't have experience, so that's why I am
asking everyone here to share their personal experiences and advice. I
am wanting to stay as close to $300 as possible for the mixer. I'd like
8 mic inputs but if I can only get a mixer with 6 that has decent
preamps, I suppose that will have to do.

I've looked up several models that I am just going to list here.
Please share any thoughts you all may have concerning any of these. The
Peavey PV 14 has 14 inputs, 10 being mic inputs. The Soundcraft Spirit
E8 has 10 channels with 8 mic inputs. The Soundcraft Spirit M8 has 12
inputs, 8 of which are mic inputs. This one is out of my price range
but I'm including for reference of higher end stuff. The Nady CMX-16A
has 16 inputs, I think 8 of them are mic inputs. Let me know of any
mixers you all would recommend. I agree that inserts are all I need, as
the 1010LT is unbalanced anyway. But, to get something with good
preamps, might it have direct outs anyway?

Thank you all for your comments.
Josh

The former recording scenario sounds closer to my use. I want to record
classical piano music. I'll probably record some string quartets, maybe
small ensembles/orchestras as well as classical singing voice. So I
probably do need to aim for something higher than the ADA-8000, I'm
just not sure what.

Thanks.

I feel like you are kind of where I was a couple years ago. Compared
to some other people here I probably have an untrained set of ears, but
I have only gotten compliments from the people I have recorded (quality
musicians) so I think for your situation I would have some credibility.
I own both the Delta 1010 and 1010lt. Yes, the 1010 has ballanced
inputs, but I haven't had a problem with the unballanced ones on the
LT. Also, if somebody wants me to go on location to record something
8-channels or less it's nice not to have to take any rack gear.

Anyway, the way I started was with just the LT and a Behringer MX2642A
which has 8 channels with preamps and inserts (also direct outs). This
did me well for a while. I made many a decent jazz recording with that
set-up as well as low-ish level mics, good software, and knowing how to
use my gear. Something like this could work for you. Man, I wish I
had known, I just sold that mixer for about $125. Somebody recently
gave me a Behringer Tube Ultragain which is a 2-channel tube preamp
with phantom power and all that stuff. I know there will be somebody
telling me "it's just a cheap Behringer mixer preamp in a big box with
a 'dirty' knob" but I hear a huge difference between it and my
Behringer mixer. You could get one of these on ebay for, I don't know,
$60, add a couple cables and a couple mics and you've got yourself a
two channel recording set-up.

In my opinion, get equipment that works fine, learn everything you can
about gear/recording/etc., be easy to work with, and don't let yourself
do a bad job. Your clients/friends/ensemblemates/whoever will probably
care about those things way more than if your preamps don't sound as
good as the ones that cost $50 more, though they most likely don't even
know what a preamp is.

I might be totally out of line, but it just sounds like you're where I
was fairly recently.

And like I have always wanted to say, "When recording 16 channels at a
time, 16 cheap preamps sound better than 8 good preamps. In fact, they
sound about 8 channels better."

-steve

"hackerjosh" wrote:

I've looked up several models that I am just going to list here.
Please share any thoughts you all may have concerning any of these.



I've never used the specific models you listed, but my experience has
been that cheap Soundcraft mixers sound surprisingly decent.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

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