Date: Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:55 pm
Subject: The light turns green

Two cars are waiting at a stoplight. The light turns green, but the man in front
doesn't notice it.

A woman in the car behind him is watching traffic pass around them. She begins
pounding on her steering wheel and yelling at the man to move.

The man doesn't move. The woman is going ballistic inside her car, ranting and
raving at the man, pounding on her steering wheel and dash.

The light turns yellow. The woman begins to blow the car horn, flips him off,
and screams curses at the man.

The man, hearing the commotion, looks up, sees the yellow light and accelerates
through the intersection just as the light turns red.

The woman is beside herself, screaming in frustration as she misses her chance
to get through the intersection.
As she is still in mid-rant she hears a tap on her window and looks up into the
barrel of a gun held by a very serious looking policeman.

The policeman tells her to shut off her car while keeping both hands in sight.

She complies, speechless at what is happening.

After she shuts off the engine, the policeman orders her to exit her car with
her hands up. She gets out of the car and he orders her to turn and place her
hands on her car. She turns, places her hands on the car roof and quickly is
cuffed and hustled into the patrol car.

She is too bewildered by the chain of events to ask any questions and is driven
to the police station where she is fingerprinted, photographed, searched, booked
and placed in a cell.

After a couple of hours, a policeman approaches the cell and opens the door for
her. She is escorted back to the booking desk where the original officer is
waiting with her personal effects.

He hands her the bag containing her things, and says, "I'm really sorry for this
mistake, but you see, I pulled up behind your car while you were blowing your
horn, flipping that guy off, and cussing a blue streak at the car in front of
you.

Then I noticed the "Choose Life" license plate holder, the "What Would Jesus Do"
and "Follow Me to Sunday School" bumper stickers, and the chrome plated
Christian fish emblem on the trunk, so naturally I assumed you had stolen the
car."

***********

"There is, I assure you, a medical art for the soul. It is philosophy, whose aid
need not be sought, as in bodily diseases, from outside ourselves. We must
endeavor with all our resources and all our strength to become capable of
doctoring ourselves." ---- Cicero

What was that cop thinking?

I would have simply assumed she was a follower of the false religion of
right-wing extremism which has displaced Christianity from so many churches.

clamnebula wrote:
Date: Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:55 pm
Subject: The light turns green

Two cars are waiting at a stoplight. The light turns green, but the man in front
doesn't notice it.

A woman in the car behind him is watching traffic pass around them. She begins
pounding on her steering wheel and yelling at the man to move.

The man doesn't move. The woman is going ballistic inside her car, ranting and
raving at the man, pounding on her steering wheel and dash.

The light turns yellow. The woman begins to blow the car horn, flips him off,
and screams curses at the man.

The man, hearing the commotion, looks up, sees the yellow light and accelerates
through the intersection just as the light turns red.

The woman is beside herself, screaming in frustration as she misses her chance
to get through the intersection.
As she is still in mid-rant she hears a tap on her window and looks up into the
barrel of a gun held by a very serious looking policeman.

The policeman tells her to shut off her car while keeping both hands in sight.

She complies, speechless at what is happening.

After she shuts off the engine, the policeman orders her to exit her car with
her hands up. She gets out of the car and he orders her to turn and place her
hands on her car. She turns, places her hands on the car roof and quickly is
cuffed and hustled into the patrol car.

She is too bewildered by the chain of events to ask any questions and is driven
to the police station where she is fingerprinted, photographed, searched, booked
and placed in a cell.

After a couple of hours, a policeman approaches the cell and opens the door for
her. She is escorted back to the booking desk where the original officer is
waiting with her personal effects.

He hands her the bag containing her things, and says, "I'm really sorry for this
mistake, but you see, I pulled up behind your car while you were blowing your
horn, flipping that guy off, and cussing a blue streak at the car in front of
you.

Then I noticed the "Choose Life" license plate holder, the "What Would Jesus Do"
and "Follow Me to Sunday School" bumper stickers, and the chrome plated
Christian fish emblem on the trunk, so naturally I assumed you had stolen the
car."

***********

"There is, I assure you, a medical art for the soul. It is philosophy, whose aid
need not be sought, as in bodily diseases, from outside ourselves. We must
endeavor with all our resources and all our strength to become capable of
doctoring ourselves." ---- Cicero




--
___

To email me, lose the pretenses from my address.

Of course I fear terrorism. A fraction as much as I fear totalitarianism.
http://www.bobpeters61.com/political/

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 21:35:34 -0600, Bob Peters
wrote, in part:

What was that cop thinking?

This was a *joke*, not a news story.

It's quite true, that if the cop had really observed what was
happening, he would have reminded the motorist in front to pay
attention to the green light ahead. Annoying a fellow driver to that
extent is unsafe behavior.

John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html

lid (John Savard) wrote in message ...
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 21:35:34 -0600, Bob Peters
wrote, in part:

What was that cop thinking?

This was a *joke*, not a news story.

It's quite true, that if the cop had really observed what was
happening, he would have reminded the motorist in front to pay
attention to the green light ahead. Annoying a fellow driver to that
extent is unsafe behavior.

John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html


John, it's also something else. It's merely another illustration in
these newsgroups of secular people who otherwise **** on the Bible and
who generally loathe Christians attempting to hold them to standards
of conduct they themselves ignore. Since they themselves have no
standards, and can't therefore be called hypocrites about anything,
they're now safe to label their betters as bad people, even though
they try but fail from time to time. Get it?

Cordially, Marie

On 25 Nov 2003 11:19:20 -0800, (Marie A.)
wrote:

(John Savard) wrote in message ...
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 21:35:34 -0600, Bob Peters
wrote, in part:

What was that cop thinking?

This was a *joke*, not a news story.

It's quite true, that if the cop had really observed what was
happening, he would have reminded the motorist in front to pay
attention to the green light ahead. Annoying a fellow driver to that
extent is unsafe behavior.

John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html


John, it's also something else. It's merely another illustration in
these newsgroups of secular people who otherwise **** on the Bible and
who generally loathe Christians attempting to hold them to standards
of conduct they themselves ignore. Since they themselves have no
standards, and can't therefore be called hypocrites about anything,
they're now safe to label their betters as bad people, even though
they try but fail from time to time. Get it?

Cordially, Marie

We would only 'get it' if you had said something that made
sense.

Seeing as all you did was spew more self-righteous religious
crap, no, we dont' 'get it'.

I hate to tell you this, lady, but your bible isn't the only
source of 'standards' in this world, and neither is your feeble
antiquated concept of 'religion' in general.



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me

New HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
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On 25 Nov 2003 11:19:20 -0800, (Marie A.)
wrote, in part:

Since they themselves have no
standards, and can't therefore be called hypocrites about anything,

Ah, yes.

Why Geraldine Ferraro, but not Ted Kennedy, was given a hard time
about being pro-choice.

John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html

John, it's also something else. It's merely another illustration in
these newsgroups of secular people who otherwise **** on the Bible and
who generally loathe Christians attempting to hold them to standards
of conduct they themselves ignore. Since they themselves have no
standards, and can't therefore be called hypocrites about anything,
they're now safe to label their betters as bad people, even though
they try but fail from time to time. Get it?

Who are these people you rant on about? I have never met any who meet
that description. Being secular does not mean not having standards, it's
just that ours tend to be based more on common sense and sound
reasoning than interpreting a book of inplausibilities and contradictions.

Purple said:

John, it's also something else. It's merely another illustration in
these newsgroups of secular people who otherwise **** on the Bible and
who generally loathe Christians attempting to hold them to standards
of conduct they themselves ignore. Since they themselves have no
standards, and can't therefore be called hypocrites about anything,
they're now safe to label their betters as bad people, even though
they try but fail from time to time. Get it?

Who are these people you rant on about? I have never met any who meet
that description. Being secular does not mean not having standards, it's
just that ours tend to be based more on common sense and sound
reasoning than interpreting a book of inplausibilities and contradictions.

Praise Logic! Amen!

On 25 Nov 2003 18:44:21 -0800, (Purple) wrote,
in part:

Who are these people you rant on about? I have never met any who meet
that description. Being secular does not mean not having standards, it's
just that ours tend to be based more on common sense and sound
reasoning than interpreting a book of inplausibilities and contradictions.

Never mind about being *secular* instead of *religious*. Instead,
let's think in terms of being *liberal* instead of *conservative*.

Do liberals have standards?

Certainly they, like conservatives, think certain things are right,
and other things are wrong.

One of the things high on the list of liberal standards is tolerance.

If someone is very intolerant, it is obvious that he has strict
standards. A hypocrite is someone who doesn't demand of himself what
he demands of others. There is no word, though, for someone who does
it the other way around; thus, if people don't demand anything from
others, then we tend to assume they don't demand it of themselves
either.

Conservatives are more noted than liberals for preaching about the
"obvious" standards: hard work, thrift, honesty, sobriety, and various
forms of responsibility.

Liberals certainly don't reject those values, but they see them as
means rather than ends in themselves. Thus, they expect people to
refrain from adultery, not because God Says Sex Belongs In Marriage,
but because they love their spouses.

There's certainly nothing wrong with being a liberal in that sense. We
work hard because we want to make money; so, when working harder only
helps our employers, and not us, we look around for other
opportunities, or we organize unions. If this horrifies some
conservatives, then we have to wonder if they're advocating hard work
because it is a wise policy for the person doing the hard work, or if
they have another agenda.

The problem is that neither "liberal good, conservative bad" nor
"conservative good, liberal bad" is accurate. Back in 1950, or even
1960, the first may have been a good approximation, but in 1980, it
looked like the second was a good approximation.

You can have good, moderate conservatives - or bad conservatives, who
want to exploit the poor for the sake of the rich.

You can have good, moderate liberals - or bad liberals, whose agenda
is not liberating the downtrodden, but simply promoting fashionable
causes for the sake of their own class interests as members of the
intelligentsia.

You know, the kind that support busing because they can afford to send
their children to private schools, but oppose high enough taxes to
actually fix the ghettos, so that black children from there and white
working-class children really *could* study together in harmony with
incidents of lunch money stolen at knifepoint as unheard of in
integrated schools today as they were in all-white schools fifty years
ago.

Louis Farrakhan is only a mild foretaste of what it means when black
people give up on white liberals to do them any good.

John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html

John Savard wrote:
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 21:35:34 -0600, Bob Peters
wrote, in part:


What was that cop thinking?


This was a *joke*, not a news story.


And one meant to be pointed rather than funny, but so was my reply. ;-)

It's quite true, that if the cop had really observed what was
happening, he would have reminded the motorist in front to pay
attention to the green light ahead. Annoying a fellow driver to that
extent is unsafe behavior.

John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html

Well, when they target "road rage" for ticketing, they generally do go
after the one who gets ****ed off, and leave the idiot who provokes him
alone.

You can't expect them to get at the root of any problem they purport to
be fighting. They've got to have their half-measures, which any
alcoholic knows avail us nothing.

Bob Peters

--
___

To email me, lose the pretenses from my address.

Of course I fear terrorism. A fraction as much as I fear totalitarianism.
http://www.bobpeters61.com/political/

Marie A. wrote:
John, it's also something else. It's merely another illustration in
these newsgroups of secular people who otherwise **** on the Bible and
who generally loathe Christians attempting to hold them to standards
of conduct they themselves ignore.

You're an anti-semite racist who seems to hate pretty much everybody
and lies about everybody that you hate.

What part of that makes you a Christ...

Never mind.

--
Ray Fischer

In article , Marie A. wrote:
lid (John Savard) wrote in message ...
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 21:35:34 -0600, Bob Peters
wrote, in part:

What was that cop thinking?

This was a *joke*, not a news story.

It's quite true, that if the cop had really observed what was
happening, he would have reminded the motorist in front to pay
attention to the green light ahead. Annoying a fellow driver to that
extent is unsafe behavior.

John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html


John, it's also something else. It's merely another illustration in
these newsgroups of secular people who otherwise **** on the Bible and
who generally loathe Christians attempting to hold them to standards
of conduct they themselves ignore. Since they themselves have no
standards, and can't therefore be called hypocrites about anything,
they're now safe to label their betters as bad people, even though
they try but fail from time to time. Get it?

Cordially, Marie

Really great christian attitude you show there. Bet you would have lit
the fire under Joan of Arc if you had been living then.

So if one does not follow the bible one has no standards? The bible
says eating shell fish and homosexuality are abominations. Why aren't
you picketing Red Lobster.

Another christian with a steel trap mind. Snapped shut and rusted.

As a Christian Agnostic I find the bible has many useful passages but
has to be read too carefully for the average person to glean much from
it. While it does have some useful moral precepts, it is hardly a
standard of much, that goes for most holy books of most other religions
too. While useful they can easily be misinterpreted.

It is interesting you used the words cordially and **** only 8 lines
apart.

--
Wes Dukes (wdukes.pobox@com) Swap the . and the @ to email me please.

is a garbage address.

On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 15:09:42 GMT, wrote:

On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:40:42 GMT, wrote:

As a Christian Agnostic I find the bible has many useful passages but
has to be read too carefully for the average person to glean much from

In other words, you have to fantasize in your own imagination
'what you think it said', or 'what you wish it said'.

Kind of like a manual for a Japanese VCR.

it. While it does have some useful moral precepts, it is hardly a
standard of much, that goes for most holy books of most other religions
too. While useful they can easily be misinterpreted.


You make a good case for the pre-reformation church's position on the
reading of it by the laity (as well as most clergy) - today's problems
result from too many of the uninformed clergy and lay sheep that
follow them having access to it !

That's right ! What we need is to burn all copies except
those in Latin, and rely on a religious hierarchy to tell us what God
told us to do ! Then if we don't do it, they can burn us alive for
our own good, and the good of our eternal souls, because they love
us !

Yeh, that's the ticket !

Oh wait, what shall we call these leaders ?

I have it ! We can call them Mullahs and Ayatollas !!



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me

New HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free demo now available online !!!!
--
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
My personal site is at http://www.pmilligan.net

In article ,
writes:
snips

In other words, you have to fantasize in your own imagination
'what you think it said', or 'what you wish it said'.
Kind of like a manual for a Japanese VCR.
snips

One needs to understand the history of the period in order to
understand the writings that come from that period. This is true
for all ancient text, not just the Bible.

That's right ! What we need is to burn all copies except
those in Latin, and rely on a religious hierarchy to tell us what God
told us to do ! Then if we don't do it, they can burn us alive for
our own good, and the good of our eternal souls, because they love
us !

Latin is a re-write just as the German, English, or any other...
Actually, perhaps we should just keep the ancient Hebrew,
Aramaic, and Greek texts, and burn the rest...? 8^)

Yeh, that's the ticket !
Oh wait, what shall we call these leaders ?
I have it ! We can call them Mullahs and Ayatollas !!

The difference between Judeo-Cristianity and Islam, is
really a simple one, but quite profound. Christians
are saved by faith, and their discipline comes from
within themselves, while Moslems are saved by their
works, and their discipline comes from without/others.

"Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is
wholly inadequate for the government of any other." -John Adams

"Without Personal virtue, a society can be ruled only by fear and
coercion, a truth tyrants understand only too well." -C.W.Colson

Happy Thanksgiving!

Bill
del X's 'n i's 4 rpleyes

On 26 Nov 2003 17:44:01 GMT, bIX (Bill) wrote:


In article ,
writes:
snips

In other words, you have to fantasize in your own imagination
'what you think it said', or 'what you wish it said'.
Kind of like a manual for a Japanese VCR.
snips

One needs to understand the history of the period in order to
understand the writings that come from that period. This is true
for all ancient text, not just the Bible.

That's right ! What we need is to burn all copies except
those in Latin, and rely on a religious hierarchy to tell us what God
told us to do ! Then if we don't do it, they can burn us alive for
our own good, and the good of our eternal souls, because they love
us !

Latin is a re-write just as the German, English, or any other...
Actually, perhaps we should just keep the ancient Hebrew,
Aramaic, and Greek texts, and burn the rest...? 8^)

Burn them ! Burn them ! Burn the witches and
unbelievers !!! :-)

Yeh, that's the ticket !
Oh wait, what shall we call these leaders ?
I have it ! We can call them Mullahs and Ayatollas !!

The difference between Judeo-Cristianity and Islam, is
really a simple one, but quite profound. Christians

It's non-existent. They are all deluded religionists who
can't accept death, or the unknown, and need to pretend that they have
the answers to either,

are saved by faith, and their discipline comes from

..... what some guy in a long black dress who's never been
laid says on Sunday morning.

within themselves, while Moslems are saved by their
works, and their discipline comes from without/others.

That's an amusing little piece of bigotted racist modernism,
quite popular among Xtians in the last 50 years or so. You used to
merely call them 'infidels' and 'hordes' while you were busy killing
them for their differing beliefs.

"Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is
wholly inadequate for the government of any other." -John Adams

So ? His brother has a really ****ty tasting beer named after
him, too. What's the point ?

"Without Personal virtue, a society can be ruled only by fear and
coercion, a truth tyrants understand only too well." -C.W.Colson

So ? Maybe free people can understand it, too ?

Happy Thanksgiving!

Go kill a perfectly innocent turkey, I can't stop you .



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me

New HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free demo now available online !!!!
--
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
My personal site is at http://www.pmilligan.net

lid (John Savard) wrote in message ...
On 25 Nov 2003 18:44:21 -0800, (Purple) wrote,
in part:

Who are these people you rant on about? I have never met any who meet
that description. Being secular does not mean not having standards, it's
just that ours tend to be based more on common sense and sound
reasoning than interpreting a book of inplausibilities and contradictions.

Never mind about being *secular* instead of *religious*. Instead,
let's think in terms of being *liberal* instead of *conservative*.

Do liberals have standards?

Certainly they, like conservatives, think certain things are right,
and other things are wrong.

One of the things high on the list of liberal standards is tolerance.

If someone is very intolerant, it is obvious that he has strict
standards. A hypocrite is someone who doesn't demand of himself what
he demands of others. There is no word, though, for someone who does
it the other way around; thus, if people don't demand anything from
others, then we tend to assume they don't demand it of themselves
either.

Conservatives are more noted than liberals for preaching about the
"obvious" standards: hard work, thrift, honesty, sobriety, and various
forms of responsibility.

Indeed and most of these things are totally sound concepts. My problem
is with the type of conservative who seeks to impose arbitrary standards
which have no useful function. An example would be Marie's rants condemning
all bar one forms of sexual activity as being "perverted". These activities
do nothing to harm anyone or undermine the functionality of our
society.

Liberals certainly don't reject those values, but they see them as
means rather than ends in themselves. Thus, they expect people to
refrain from adultery, not because God Says Sex Belongs In Marriage,
but because they love their spouses.

I view adultery as wrong on a sort of "do unto others..." basis.

There's certainly nothing wrong with being a liberal in that sense. We
work hard because we want to make money; so, when working harder only
helps our employers, and not us, we look around for other
opportunities, or we organize unions. If this horrifies some
conservatives, then we have to wonder if they're advocating hard work
because it is a wise policy for the person doing the hard work, or if
they have another agenda.

Indeed.

The problem is that neither "liberal good, conservative bad" nor
"conservative good, liberal bad" is accurate. Back in 1950, or even
1960, the first may have been a good approximation, but in 1980, it
looked like the second was a good approximation.

This is a very good point. Ultimately "Liberal" and Conservative" are
terms which cover a wide range of perspectives and as far as I know
are rather poorly defined in any case.

You can have good, moderate conservatives - or bad conservatives, who
want to exploit the poor for the sake of the rich.

Another good point.

You can have good, moderate liberals - or bad liberals, whose agenda
is not liberating the downtrodden, but simply promoting fashionable
causes for the sake of their own class interests as members of the
intelligentsia.

You know, the kind that support busing because they can afford to send
their children to private schools, but oppose high enough taxes to
actually fix the ghettos, so that black children from there and white
working-class children really *could* study together in harmony with
incidents of lunch money stolen at knifepoint as unheard of in
integrated schools today as they were in all-white schools fifty years
ago.

Louis Farrakhan is only a mild foretaste of what it means when black
people give up on white liberals to do them any good.

John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html

interesting post. Thanks.

Geez, I'm sorry. I'll head right down to the county offices
on Friday and CHANGE MY FREAKING NAME FOR YOU ! :-)

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:28:09 +0000, G.S. Nail
wrote:

wrote:

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me

Could you please not use the word 'Paul' in your usenet posts. I have
it set up as a filter search term and am getting a lot of false hits.


Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me

New HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free demo now available online !!!!
--
Free superheat charts for 38 Ref's online at http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/
My personal site is at http://www.pmilligan.net

On 26 Nov 2003 17:44:01 GMT, bIX (Bill) wrote:


In article ,
writes:
snips

In other words, you have to fantasize in your own imagination
'what you think it said', or 'what you wish it said'.
Kind of like a manual for a Japanese VCR.
snips

One needs to understand the history of the period in order to
understand the writings that come from that period. This is true
for all ancient text, not just the Bible.

That's right ! What we need is to burn all copies except
those in Latin, and rely on a religious hierarchy to tell us what God
told us to do ! Then if we don't do it, they can burn us alive for
our own good, and the good of our eternal souls, because they love
us !

Latin is a re-write just as the German, English, or any other...
Actually, perhaps we should just keep the ancient Hebrew,
Aramaic, and Greek texts, and burn the rest...? 8^)

Yeh, that's the ticket !
Oh wait, what shall we call these leaders ?
I have it ! We can call them Mullahs and Ayatollas !!

The difference between Judeo-Cristianity and Islam, is
really a simple one, but quite profound. Christians
are saved by faith, and their discipline comes from
within themselves, while Moslems are saved by their
works, and their discipline comes from without/others.

Hmm. Just who are you including under 'Christians'?

"Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is
wholly inadequate for the government of any other." -John Adams

"Without Personal virtue, a society can be ruled only by fear and
coercion, a truth tyrants understand only too well." -C.W.Colson

Happy Thanksgiving!

Bill
del X's 'n i's 4 rpleyes

-
Larry
(this space unintentionally left blank .....
make obvious deletion for email

On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:43:02 GMT,
wrote:

On 26 Nov 2003 17:44:01 GMT, bIX (Bill) wrote:


In article ,
writes:
snips

In other words, you have to fantasize in your own imagination
'what you think it said', or 'what you wish it said'.
Kind of like a manual for a Japanese VCR.
snips

One needs to understand the history of the period in order to
understand the writings that come from that period. This is true
for all ancient text, not just the Bible.

That's right ! What we need is to burn all copies except
those in Latin, and rely on a religious hierarchy to tell us what God
told us to do ! Then if we don't do it, they can burn us alive for
our own good, and the good of our eternal souls, because they love
us !

Latin is a re-write just as the German, English, or any other...
Actually, perhaps we should just keep the ancient Hebrew,
Aramaic, and Greek texts, and burn the rest...? 8^)

Burn them ! Burn them ! Burn the witches and
unbelievers !!! :-)

Yeh, that's the ticket !
Oh wait, what shall we call these leaders ?
I have it ! We can call them Mullahs and Ayatollas !!

The difference between Judeo-Cristianity and Islam, is
really a simple one, but quite profound. Christians

It's non-existent. They are all deluded religionists who
can't accept death, or the unknown, and need to pretend that they have
the answers to either,

are saved by faith, and their discipline comes from

..... what some guy in a long black dress who's never been
laid says on Sunday morning.

within themselves, while Moslems are saved by their
works, and their discipline comes from without/others.

That's an amusing little piece of bigotted racist modernism,
quite popular among Xtians in the last 50 years or so. You used to
merely call them 'infidels' and 'hordes' while you were busy killing
them for their differing beliefs.

"Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is
wholly inadequate for the government of any other." -John Adams

So ? His brother has a really ****ty tasting beer named after
him, too. What's the point ?

1. Sam was John's cousin.
2. It is better than the mass-produced panther **** which dominates
the market. (although it is produced under license by a major
panther-**** producer.)


"Without Personal virtue, a society can be ruled only by fear and
coercion, a truth tyrants understand only too well." -C.W.Colson

So ? Maybe free people can understand it, too ?

Happy Thanksgiving!

Go kill a perfectly innocent turkey, I can't stop you .



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me

New HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free demo now available online !!!!

-
Larry
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Two cars are waiting at a stoplight. The light turns green, but the man in
front
doesn't notice it.

A woman in the car behind him is watching traffic pass around them. She
begins
pounding on her steering wheel and yelling at the man to move.

The man doesn't move. The woman is going ballistic inside her car, ranting
and
raving at the man, pounding on her steering wheel and dash.

The light turns yellow. The woman begins to blow the car horn, flips him off,
and screams curses at the man.

The man, hearing the commotion, looks up, sees the yellow light and
accelerates
through the intersection just as the light turns red.

The woman is beside herself, screaming in frustration as she misses her
chance
to get through the intersection.
As she is still in mid-rant she hears a tap on her window and looks up into
the
barrel of a gun held by a very serious looking policeman.

The policeman tells her to shut off her car while keeping both hands in
sight.

She complies, speechless at what is happening.

After she shuts off the engine, the policeman orders her to exit her car with
her hands up. She gets out of the car and he orders her to turn and place her
hands on her car. She turns, places her hands on the car roof and quickly is
cuffed and hustled into the patrol car.

She is too bewildered by the chain of events to ask any questions and is
driven
to the police station where she is fingerprinted, photographed, searched,
booked
and placed in a cell.

After a couple of hours, a policeman approaches the cell and opens the door
for
her. She is escorted back to the booking desk where the original officer is
waiting with her personal effects.

He hands her the bag containing her things, and says, "I'm really sorry for
this
mistake, but you see, I pulled up behind your car while you were blowing your
horn, flipping that guy off, and cussing a blue streak at the car in front of
you.

Then I noticed the "Choose Life" license plate holder, the "What Would Jesus
Do"
and "Follow Me to Sunday School" bumper stickers, and the chrome plated
Christian fish emblem on the trunk, so naturally I assumed you had stolen the
car."

***********

"There is, I assure you, a medical art for the soul. It is philosophy, whose
aid
need not be sought, as in bodily diseases, from outside ourselves. We must
endeavor with all our resources and all our strength to become capable of
doctoring ourselves." ---- Cicero

What the **** has this got to do with
audio????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????

wrote in message
...
On 25 Nov 2003 11:19:20 -0800, (Marie A.)
wrote:

(John Savard) wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 21:35:34 -0600, Bob Peters
wrote, in part:

What was that cop thinking?

This was a *joke*, not a news story.

It's quite true, that if the cop had really observed what was
happening, he would have reminded the motorist in front to pay
attention to the green light ahead. Annoying a fellow driver to that
extent is unsafe behavior.

John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html


John, it's also something else. It's merely another illustration in
these newsgroups of secular people who otherwise **** on the Bible and
who generally loathe Christians attempting to hold them to standards
of conduct they themselves ignore. Since they themselves have no
standards, and can't therefore be called hypocrites about anything,
they're now safe to label their betters as bad people, even though
they try but fail from time to time. Get it?

Cordially, Marie

We would only 'get it' if you had said something that made
sense.

Seeing as all you did was spew more self-righteous religious
crap, no, we dont' 'get it'.

I hate to tell you this, lady, but your bible isn't the only
source of 'standards' in this world, and neither is your feeble
antiquated concept of 'religion' in general.



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me

New HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free demo now available online !!!!
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More emotional spewing from propagandists.

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 20:00:03 GMT, "Dorothy"
wrote:


More emotional spewing from propagandists.

We're not in Kansas anymore, Dorothy.

Now go play with your little imaginary friends, like President
Gore, and let the adults talk.



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me

New HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
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In article ,
Lawrence E. McKnight writes:
On 26 Nov 2003 17:44:01 GMT, bIX (Bill) wrote:
snips
The difference between Judeo-Cristianity and Islam, is
really a simple one, but quite profound. Christians
are saved by faith, and their discipline comes from
within themselves, while Moslems are saved by their
works, and their discipline comes from without/others.

Hmm. Just who are you including under 'Christians'?

Pretty much all Christians, except perhaps for those who
think they need to *do* something, other than confess,
repent and ask/seek after Him, to be saved. I am not real
knowledgable about Catholicism, but, acts of contrition
aside, I think they too are *saved* through their faith.
Are they not?



Bill
del X's 'n i's 4 rpleyes

On 1 Dec 2003 15:57:01 GMT, bIX Xcoop@unii ix.sas.com (Bill) wrote:


In article ,
Lawrence E. McKnight writes:
On 26 Nov 2003 17:44:01 GMT, bIX (Bill) wrote:
snips
The difference between Judeo-Cristianity and Islam, is
really a simple one, but quite profound. Christians
are saved by faith, and their discipline comes from
within themselves, while Moslems are saved by their
works, and their discipline comes from without/others.

Hmm. Just who are you including under 'Christians'?

Pretty much all Christians, except perhaps for those who
think they need to *do* something, other than confess,
repent and ask/seek after Him, to be saved. I am not real
knowledgable about Catholicism, but, acts of contrition
aside, I think they too are *saved* through their faith.
Are they not?

Nope. Catholics pay more attention to James that most other
Christians.



Bill
del X's 'n i's 4 rpleyes

-
Larry
(this space unintentionally left blank .....
make obvious deletion for email

bIX (Bill) wrote in message ...

(snip)

The difference between Judeo-Cristianity and Islam, is
really a simple one, but quite profound. Christians
are saved by faith, and their discipline comes from
within themselves, while Moslems are saved by their
works, and their discipline comes from without/others.

Uh, do those "works" include slitting the throats of flight attendants
and ramming jet airliners into skyscrapers? Uh, no, you say? Then why
can we count on less than two fingers the Islamic organizations which
have officially gone on record as condemning this, or any other, act
of terrorism?

Do you know what a fatwah is? Can you name any other modern religion
which issues official orders to murder and maim people?

(snip)

Cordially, Marie

"Marie A." wrote in message
om...
bIX (Bill) wrote in message
...



Do you know what a fatwah is? Can you name any other modern religion
which issues official orders to murder and maim people?


Secular humanism??.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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Marie A. wrote:
bIX (Bill) wrote in message ...

The difference between Judeo-Cristianity and Islam, is
really a simple one, but quite profound. Christians
are saved by faith, and their discipline comes from
within themselves, while Moslems are saved by their
works, and their discipline comes from without/others.

Uh, do those "works" include slitting the throats of flight attendants
and ramming jet airliners into skyscrapers? Uh, no, you say?

Uh, yes, actually. Or something very like it. Considering hundreds
of years of persecution against Jews and Muslims and Pagans I'd guess
that the death toll caused by "Christians" far exceeds anything done
thus far by any other religion.

--
Ray Fischer

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 03:31:22 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) wrote:

Marie A. wrote:
bIX (Bill) wrote in message ...

The difference between Judeo-Cristianity and Islam, is
really a simple one, but quite profound. Christians
are saved by faith, and their discipline comes from
within themselves, while Moslems are saved by their
works, and their discipline comes from without/others.

Uh, do those "works" include slitting the throats of flight attendants
and ramming jet airliners into skyscrapers? Uh, no, you say?

Uh, yes, actually. Or something very like it. Considering hundreds
of years of persecution against Jews and Muslims and Pagans I'd guess
that the death toll caused by "Christians" far exceeds anything done
thus far by any other religion.

Sounds like you live in the Middle Ages, right alongside the
Mullahs and the Talibans and the other towelheads.



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me

New HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's !! http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free demo now available online !!!!
--
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My personal site is at http://www.pmilligan.net

wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
Marie A. wrote:
bIX (Bill) wrote in message ...

The difference between Judeo-Cristianity and Islam, is
really a simple one, but quite profound. Christians
are saved by faith, and their discipline comes from
within themselves, while Moslems are saved by their
works, and their discipline comes from without/others.

Uh, do those "works" include slitting the throats of flight attendants
and ramming jet airliners into skyscrapers? Uh, no, you say?

Uh, yes, actually. Or something very like it. Considering hundreds
of years of persecution against Jews and Muslims and Pagans I'd guess
that the death toll caused by "Christians" far exceeds anything done
thus far by any other religion.

Sounds like you live in the Middle Ages, right alongside the
Mullahs and the Talibans and the other towelheads.

one doesn't need to go back that far. There's the ongoing violence
between Protestants and Catholics in N. Ireland. There's the killing
of 6,000,000 Jews and Gypsies in Germany.

--
Ray Fischer

Marie,

You're just a chicken **** rag top lover who sleeps with camels.

Why don't you talk about the really important stuff, like:

1) Was the Prophet's mother really a Jewish whore?

2) Is the main difference separating the Shia and Shiite clerics the
long standing argument over whether the blood from dark pigs or
light pigs tastes better when they drink it in their secret rituals?

3) Was the Prophet really gay and is Michael Jackson a re-incarnation
of the Prophet and/or the anti-Christ?

You need to resolve these important issues, camel-gal, if you're going
keep posting non-audio topics in rec.audio.opinion.

Personally, I'd like to see the Inquisition re-instated so we could rid
the world of more of the scum we got rid of when in was in full force.
To paraphrase an old Jim Morrison line, "Com'on baby, let me light your
fire!"

BWRIAAWHINE

wrote:
On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 03:31:22 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) wrote:


Marie A. wrote:

bIX (Bill) wrote in message ...

The difference between Judeo-Cristianity and Islam, is
really a simple one, but quite profound. Christians
are saved by faith, and their discipline comes from
within themselves, while Moslems are saved by their
works, and their discipline comes from without/others.

Uh, do those "works" include slitting the throats of flight attendants
and ramming jet airliners into skyscrapers? Uh, no, you say?

Uh, yes, actually. Or something very like it. Considering hundreds
of years of persecution against Jews and Muslims and Pagans I'd guess
that the death toll caused by "Christians" far exceeds anything done
thus far by any other religion.


Sounds like you live in the Middle Ages, right alongside the
Mullahs and the Talibans and the other towelheads.



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 04:43:07 GMT, (Ray
Fischer) wrote:

wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote:
Marie A. wrote:
bIX (Bill) wrote in message ...

The difference between Judeo-Cristianity and Islam, is
really a simple one, but quite profound. Christians
are saved by faith, and their discipline comes from
within themselves, while Moslems are saved by their
works, and their discipline comes from without/others.

Uh, do those "works" include slitting the throats of flight attendants
and ramming jet airliners into skyscrapers? Uh, no, you say?

Uh, yes, actually. Or something very like it. Considering hundreds
of years of persecution against Jews and Muslims and Pagans I'd guess
that the death toll caused by "Christians" far exceeds anything done
thus far by any other religion.

Sounds like you live in the Middle Ages, right alongside the
Mullahs and the Talibans and the other towelheads.

one doesn't need to go back that far. There's the ongoing violence
between Protestants and Catholics in N. Ireland. There's the killing
of 6,000,000 Jews and Gypsies in Germany.

You blame that on Christianity? You do know that there's a difference
between Christianity and Naziism, right? And that the Nazis were into
the occult?

Christians have a dark history, no doubt. But who is the more
murderous here and now?

In article ,
Lawrence E. McKnight writes:
On 1 Dec 2003 15:57:01 GMT, bIX Xcoop@unii ix.sas.com (Bill) wrote:

In article ,
Lawrence E. McKnight writes:
On 26 Nov 2003 17:44:01 GMT, bIX (Bill) wrote:
snips
The difference between Judeo-Cristianity and Islam, is
really a simple one, but quite profound. Christians
are saved by faith, and their discipline comes from
within themselves, while Moslems are saved by their
works, and their discipline comes from without/others.

Hmm. Just who are you including under 'Christians'?

Pretty much all Christians, except perhaps for those who
think they need to *do* something, other than confess,
repent and ask/seek after Him, to be saved. I am not real
knowledgable about Catholicism, but, acts of contrition
aside, I think they too are *saved* through their faith.
Are they not?

Nope. Catholics pay more attention to James that most other
Christians.

Well, it is wrong IMO to pay strict attention to any one part of
the Bible, while neglecting the rest. I doubt Catholics in general
do that, but as I said/wrote earlier, I do not know that much about
the Catholic faith. I have read thru the Protestant Bible tho. 8)
While it may appear from James' text (alone) that works are important,
they are not, IMO. Yes, we know each other by our works, aka the
fruit of the spirit, but that alone will not save you. It all
starts with faith, and that faith is seen in one's works. Note
that I emphasize *saved* above. I think you err in either your
understanding or your response, ...or both. IMO, FWIW, FYI, YMMV
8^)

Bill
del X's 'n i's 4 rpleyes

In article ,
(Marie A.) writes:
bIX (Bill) wrote in message ...

(snip)

The difference between Judeo-Cristianity and Islam, is
really a simple one, but quite profound. Christians
are saved by faith, and their discipline comes from
within themselves, while Moslems are saved by their
works, and their discipline comes from without/others.

Uh, do those "works" include slitting the throats of flight attendants
and ramming jet airliners into skyscrapers? Uh, no, you say? Then why
can we count on less than two fingers the Islamic organizations which
have officially gone on record as condemning this, or any other, act
of terrorism?

Do you know what a fatwah is? Can you name any other modern religion
which issues official orders to murder and maim people?

Cordially, Marie

I think you missed my point. No big loss... 8^)



del X's 'n ' 's 'n i's 4 rpleyes

In article ,
(Ray Fischer) writes:
Marie A. wrote:
bIX (Bill) wrote in message ...

The difference between Judeo-Cristianity and Islam, is
really a simple one, but quite profound. Christians
are saved by faith, and their discipline comes from
within themselves, while Moslems are saved by their
works, and their discipline comes from without/others.

Uh, do those "works" include slitting the throats of flight attendants
and ramming jet airliners into skyscrapers? Uh, no, you say?

Uh, yes, actually. Or something very like it. Considering hundreds
of years of persecution against Jews and Muslims and Pagans I'd guess
that the death toll caused by "Christians" far exceeds anything done
thus far by any other religion.

Your *guess* is pretty far off the mark, there Ray.
The atheists of Czarist Russia murdered an estimated
20-30 million people in the last century. The nazi's
of WW2 Germany murdered some 6 million. Do you have
any figures for those killed in the several Islamic
wars, the Spanish Inquisition, or perhaps the Irish
conflicts of recent history? I do not have a cite,
but recall the numbers in the hundreds and the thousands,
not the millions... Try again.



del X's 'n ' 's 'n i's 4 rpleyes

On 1 Dec 2003 18:57:07 -0800, (Marie A.) wrote:

bIX (Bill) wrote in message ...

(snip)

The difference between Judeo-Cristianity and Islam, is
really a simple one, but quite profound. Christians
are saved by faith, and their discipline comes from
within themselves, while Moslems are saved by their
works, and their discipline comes from without/others.

Uh, do those "works" include slitting the throats of flight attendants
and ramming jet airliners into skyscrapers? Uh, no, you say? Then why
can we count on less than two fingers the Islamic organizations which
have officially gone on record as condemning this, or any other, act
of terrorism?

This smells like something you just made up.

Do you know what a fatwah is? Can you name any other modern religion
which issues official orders to murder and maim people?

What do you mean by 'modern'? One could bring up Dominic and the
Albigensians. Or the Inquisition. Or Jonestown. Or Paul Hill.

(snip)

Cordially, Marie

-
Larry
(this space unintentionally left blank .....
make obvious deletion for email

On 2 Dec 2003 14:14:10 GMT, bIXX Xcoop@unii ix.sas.com (Bill) wrote:


In article ,
(Ray Fischer) writes:
Marie A. wrote:
bIX (Bill) wrote in message ...

The difference between Judeo-Cristianity and Islam, is
really a simple one, but quite profound. Christians
are saved by faith, and their discipline comes from
within themselves, while Moslems are saved by their
works, and their discipline comes from without/others.

Uh, do those "works" include slitting the throats of flight attendants
and ramming jet airliners into skyscrapers? Uh, no, you say?

Uh, yes, actually. Or something very like it. Considering hundreds
of years of persecution against Jews and Muslims and Pagans I'd guess
that the death toll caused by "Christians" far exceeds anything done
thus far by any other religion.

Your *guess* is pretty far off the mark, there Ray.
The atheists of Czarist Russia murdered an estimated
20-30 million people in the last century. The nazi's
of WW2 Germany murdered some 6 million. Do you have
any figures for those killed in the several Islamic
wars, the Spanish Inquisition, or perhaps the Irish
conflicts of recent history? I do not have a cite,
but recall the numbers in the hundreds and the thousands,
not the millions... Try again.

Ummm. The 'atheists of Czarist Russia'? I suggest you study a bit
more history.

Yes, the Nazi's murdered lots of people, and were proud of the motto
on the SS belt buckles.



del X's 'n ' 's 'n i's 4 rpleyes

-
Larry
(this space unintentionally left blank .....
make obvious deletion for email

In article , Lawrence E.
McKnight wrote:

On 1 Dec 2003 18:57:07 -0800, (Marie A.) wrote:

bIX (Bill) wrote in message
...

(snip)

The difference between Judeo-Cristianity and Islam, is
really a simple one, but quite profound. Christians
are saved by faith, and their discipline comes from
within themselves, while Moslems are saved by their
works, and their discipline comes from without/others.

Uh, do those "works" include slitting the throats of flight attendants
and ramming jet airliners into skyscrapers? Uh, no, you say? Then why
can we count on less than two fingers the Islamic organizations which
have officially gone on record as condemning this, or any other, act
of terrorism?

This smells like something you just made up.


Maybe, but I'll bet its not too far from the truth. You're welcome to
provide us with the names (and the numbers of Muslims they represent)
of any Islamic organizations that have come out against the actions of
those who carried out the 9/11 attacks.

Uh, yes, actually. Or something very like it. Considering hundreds
of years of persecution against Jews and Muslims and Pagans I'd guess
that the death toll caused by "Christians" far exceeds anything done
thus far by any other religion.

Your *guess* is pretty far off the mark, there Ray.
The atheists of Czarist Russia murdered an estimated
20-30 million people in the last century. The nazi's
of WW2 Germany murdered some 6 million.

This may be a DUMB question, but is ATHEISM a religion???

Jeff

UnionPac2001 said:

The atheists of Czarist Russia murdered an estimated
20-30 million people in the last century. The nazi's
of WW2 Germany murdered some 6 million.

This may be a DUMB question, but is ATHEISM a religion???

In America, in a legal context, it is. But I agree that in the context
of mass murder, it wouldn't be unless it's a pogrom to exterminate
****ing christians or something.

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:15:55 -0500, George M. Middius
wrote:



UnionPac2001 said:

The atheists of Czarist Russia murdered an estimated
20-30 million people in the last century. The nazi's
of WW2 Germany murdered some 6 million.

This may be a DUMB question, but is ATHEISM a religion???

In America, in a legal context, it is. But I agree that in the context
of mass murder, it wouldn't be unless it's a pogrom to exterminate
****ing christians or something.


George is spot-on here. In America, the Supreme Court ruled that
"freedom of religion" could be extended to "freedom from religion", so
atheism has the legal protection of a religion without actually being
one.

Scott Gardner