Can those apparently few people who use this Newsgroup just for matters
Audio advise me if there is a "more" appropriate newsgroup for dealing
with Audio queries ao running down the subject matter of "most" of the
posts leads me to believe that this NG is for anything and everything
except serious Audio buffs.
I do hope this post attracts those who are prepared to advise but no
doubt some people will take offence at the tenure of my remarks, I
assure you no offence is intended, I just want some loudspeaker advice
but feel from the subject matter of some of the posts I may be in the
wrong place.
--
Derrick

"Derrick Fawsitt"
wrote in message


Can those apparently few people who use this Newsgroup
just for matters Audio advise me if there is a "more"
appropriate newsgroup for dealing with Audio queries ao
running down the subject matter of "most" of the posts
leads me to believe that this NG is for anything and
everything except serious Audio buffs.

Consumer audio:

alt.audio.equipment
rec.audio.misc
rec.audio.tech

Audio production:
rec.audio.pro
alt.music.home-studio

Live sound:
alt.audio.pro.live-sound

Litmus test:

Just check to see if the usual suspects aren't posting
there.

Derrick Fawsitt said:

Can those apparently few people who use this Newsgroup just for matters
Audio advise me if there is a "more" appropriate newsgroup for dealing
with Audio queries ao running down the subject matter of "most" of the
posts leads me to believe that this NG is for anything and everything
except serious Audio buffs.
I do hope this post attracts those who are prepared to advise but no
doubt some people will take offence at the tenure of my remarks, I
assure you no offence is intended, I just want some loudspeaker advice
but feel from the subject matter of some of the posts I may be in the
wrong place.


rec.audio.tech, rec.audio.high-end (moderated), or one of the many
web-based forums.

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" writes:
"Derrick Fawsitt"
wrote in message


Can those apparently few people who use this Newsgroup
just for matters Audio advise me if there is a "more"
appropriate newsgroup for dealing with Audio queries ao
running down the subject matter of "most" of the posts
leads me to believe that this NG is for anything and
everything except serious Audio buffs.

Consumer audio:

alt.audio.equipment
rec.audio.misc
rec.audio.tech

Audio production:
rec.audio.pro
alt.music.home-studio

Live sound:
alt.audio.pro.live-sound

Litmus test:

Just check to see if the usual suspects aren't posting
there.

Gee, you left out the best one: rec.audio.high-end which is moderated
to keep out the garbage that passes for auido discussion here on RAO.
I wonder why you failed to mention it? Could it be you can't seem to
get a post past the moderators anymore?

RAHE wrote:
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" writes:
"Derrick Fawsitt"
wrote in message


Can those apparently few people who use this Newsgroup
just for matters Audio advise me if there is a "more"
appropriate newsgroup for dealing with Audio queries ao
running down the subject matter of "most" of the posts
leads me to believe that this NG is for anything and
everything except serious Audio buffs.

Consumer audio:

alt.audio.equipment
rec.audio.misc
rec.audio.tech

Audio production:
rec.audio.pro
alt.music.home-studio

Live sound:
alt.audio.pro.live-sound

Litmus test:

Just check to see if the usual suspects aren't posting
there.

Gee, you left out the best one: rec.audio.high-end which is moderated
to keep out the garbage that passes for auido discussion here on RAO.
I wonder why you failed to mention it? Could it be you can't seem to
get a post past the moderators anymore?

Moderation can be a beautiful thing.

In , RAHE fan wrote :

Gee, you left out the best one: rec.audio.high-end which is moderated
to keep out the garbage that passes for auido discussion here on RAO.
I wonder why you failed to mention it? Could it be you can't seem to
get a post past the moderators anymore?

Note that when RAHE is out of service we often see the junkies of the
"subjectivism vs objectivism" discussion coming here on RAO...
We are their methadon.

In article ,
says...


Can those apparently few people who use this Newsgroup just for matters
Audio advise me if there is a "more" appropriate newsgroup for dealing
with Audio queries ao running down the subject matter of "most" of the
posts leads me to believe that this NG is for anything and everything
except serious Audio buffs.
I do hope this post attracts those who are prepared to advise but no
doubt some people will take offence at the tenure of my remarks, I
assure you no offence is intended, I just want some loudspeaker advice
but feel from the subject matter of some of the posts I may be in the
wrong place.

does your news reader support kill files? If yes, put it to good use. It only
take a handful of entries to cut the clutter in the newsgroup.
---------------
Alex

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:03:21 +0000, Derrick Fawsitt
wrote:

Can those apparently few people who use this Newsgroup just for matters
Audio advise me if there is a "more" appropriate newsgroup for dealing
with Audio queries ao running down the subject matter of "most" of the
posts leads me to believe that this NG is for anything and everything
except serious Audio buffs.
I do hope this post attracts those who are prepared to advise but no
doubt some people will take offence at the tenure of my remarks, I
assure you no offence is intended, I just want some loudspeaker advice
but feel from the subject matter of some of the posts I may be in the
wrong place.

Oh come on what's wrong with a bit of long distance cock sucking
luvie?

"Derrick Fawsitt" wrote in message
...
Can those apparently few people who use this Newsgroup just for matters
Audio advise me if there is a "more" appropriate newsgroup for dealing
with Audio queries ao running down the subject matter of "most" of the
posts leads me to believe that this NG is for anything and everything
except serious Audio buffs.
I do hope this post attracts those who are prepared to advise but no doubt
some people will take offence at the tenure of my remarks, I assure you no
offence is intended, I just want some loudspeaker advice but feel from the
subject matter of some of the posts I may be in the wrong place.
--
Derrick

We talk about ABX all the time. It doesn't
get more audio than that!!!

"nebulax" wrote in message
ups.com...

?

Moderation can be a beautiful thing.


but, only in moderation.

"Derrick Fawsitt" wrote in message
...
Can those apparently few people who use this Newsgroup just for matters
Audio advise me if there is a "more" appropriate newsgroup for dealing
with Audio queries ao running down the subject matter of "most" of the
posts leads me to believe that this NG is for anything and everything
except serious Audio buffs.
I do hope this post attracts those who are prepared to advise but no doubt
some people will take offence at the tenure of my remarks, I assure you no
offence is intended, I just want some loudspeaker advice but feel from the
subject matter of some of the posts I may be in the wrong place.
--
Derrick

You are in the wrong place. This as a big old flame war. Nobody here seems
to care about getting better sound in their home, which I always thought was
the point of recreational high end audio. Go somewhere else, this is not for
you. I say that as a friend. You might get the odd response from some newbie
that has a brain, but most likely you will be flamed to death by the
denizens of rec.audio. It just doesn't seem like the old days of shared
tweaks and familiar hardware. There is so much out there today that there
are few who can make sense of it all. This is not an audio group anymore, if
it was we would see such things as listening comparisons and manufacturer
shootouts.

Here you will see petty morons debating meaningless topics, and this is not
something that is conducive to good listening. All the hubbub about people's
personal lives has no bearing on the actual enjoyment of music. So go
somewhere else, my friend, and have my good wishes to bide your time surfing
the usenet. I am not long for this forum. It is too taxing, it is too
confrontational. Music is a beautiful thing and it has been debased by
infighting and minor personal wars here. This was the place I thought I
belonged some years ago, and it has become such a cesspool of dreck that I
can't even believe I am posting here.

So that's all I have to say. This is all. I'm out. And I'm sure this is good
riddance for some of you. Damn, this could have been something cool, but you
have made it uncool. Hatter, email if you get this. I still want to talk.

tube

"Derrick Fawsitt" wrote in message
...
Can those apparently few people who use this Newsgroup just for matters
Audio advise me if there is a "more" appropriate newsgroup for dealing
with Audio queries ao running down the subject matter of "most" of the
posts leads me to believe that this NG is for anything and everything
except serious Audio buffs.
I do hope this post attracts those who are prepared to advise but no doubt
some people will take offence at the tenure of my remarks, I assure you no
offence is intended, I just want some loudspeaker advice but feel from the
subject matter of some of the posts I may be in the wrong place.
--
Derrick

You are in the wrong place. This as a big old flame war. Nobody here seems
to care about getting better sound in their home, which I always thought was
the point of recreational high end audio. Go somewhere else, this is not for
you. I say that as a friend. You might get the odd response from some newbie
that has a brain, but most likely you will be flamed to death by the
denizens of rec.audio. It just doesn't seem like the old days of shared
tweaks and familiar hardware. There is so much out there today that there
are few who can make sense of it all. This is not an audio group anymore, if
it was we would see such things as listening comparisons and manufacturer
shootouts.

Here you will see petty morons debating meaningless topics, and this is not
something that is conducive to good listening. All the hubbub about people's
personal lives has no bearing on the actual enjoyment of music. So go
somewhere else, my friend, and have my good wishes to bide your time surfing
the usenet. I am not long for this forum. It is too taxing, it is too
confrontational. Music is a beautiful thing and it has been debased by
infighting and minor personal wars here. This was the place I thought I
belonged some years ago, and it has become such a cesspool of dreck that I
can't even believe I am posting here.

So that's all I have to say. This is all. I'm out. And I'm sure this is good
riddance for some of you. Damn, this could have been something cool, but you
have made it uncool. Hatter, email if you get this. I still want to talk.

tube

tubeguy wrote:

"Derrick Fawsitt" wrote in message
...
Can those apparently few people who use this Newsgroup just for matters
Audio advise me if there is a "more" appropriate newsgroup for dealing
with Audio queries ao running down the subject matter of "most" of the
posts leads me to believe that this NG is for anything and everything
except serious Audio buffs.
I do hope this post attracts those who are prepared to advise but no doubt
some people will take offence at the tenure of my remarks, I assure you no
offence is intended, I just want some loudspeaker advice but feel from the
subject matter of some of the posts I may be in the wrong place.
--
Derrick

You are in the wrong place. This as a big old flame war. Nobody here seems
to care about getting better sound in their home, which I always thought was
the point of recreational high end audio.

Best ways to do to make the biggest difference towards better sound:

optimize speaker placement and listening position
apply treatments to improve room acoustics e.g.
- first-reflection absorption for highs and midrange
- bass traps
- room EQ
upgrade speakers


Pretty much everything after that runs a distant second, except for
changing cables, which runs a distant third , if that.

Oddly enough, the 'subjectivists' here on RAO rarely seem to talk about
such important stuff as room acoustics. But there's plenty of it over on
avsforum.



--
-S
"The most appealing intuitive argument for atheism is the mindblowing stupidity of religious
fundamentalists." -- Ginger Yellow

"tubeguy" wrote in message


You are in the wrong place. This as a big old flame war.

More old than big.

Nobody here seems to care about getting better sound in
their home, which I always thought was the point of
recreational high end audio.

Wrong. Several of us care about getting better sound in the
home. We just discuss serious audio topics some place else
(list already provided).

It's just that as long as the usual suspects continue to
focus on infantile bickering, which is all they seem to be
capable of, not a lot about audio of general use can be said
around here.

tubeguy a écrit :
"Derrick Fawsitt" wrote in message
...

Can those apparently few people who use this Newsgroup just for matters
Audio advise me if there is a "more" appropriate newsgroup for dealing
with Audio queries ao running down the subject matter of "most" of the
posts leads me to believe that this NG is for anything and everything
except serious Audio buffs.
I do hope this post attracts those who are prepared to advise but no doubt
some people will take offence at the tenure of my remarks, I assure you no
offence is intended, I just want some loudspeaker advice but feel from the
subject matter of some of the posts I may be in the wrong place.
--
Derrick


You are in the wrong place. This as a big old flame war. Nobody here seems
to care about getting better sound in their home, which I always thought was
the point of recreational high end audio.

IMHO the endless grotesque scuffle objectivists vs subjectivists on RAHE
has never helped someone to improve the sound in his home too.

One of the most respected opinion-leader in audio world was writing
recently on RAO :
"I merely state truths that you and others find uncomfortable."
With *truths* as key-word... Modest no ? ;-)
I'm afraid that such guy is a little bit too megalomaniac and paranoid
to be able to help you to improve the sound in your home.

For my part I prefer music... and salacious discussions on RAO ! ;-)

Have a nice day.

Steven Sullivan a écrit :
tubeguy wrote:


"Derrick Fawsitt" wrote in message
...

Can those apparently few people who use this Newsgroup just for matters
Audio advise me if there is a "more" appropriate newsgroup for dealing
with Audio queries ao running down the subject matter of "most" of the
posts leads me to believe that this NG is for anything and everything
except serious Audio buffs.
I do hope this post attracts those who are prepared to advise but no doubt
some people will take offence at the tenure of my remarks, I assure you no
offence is intended, I just want some loudspeaker advice but feel from the
subject matter of some of the posts I may be in the wrong place.
--
Derrick


You are in the wrong place. This as a big old flame war. Nobody here seems
to care about getting better sound in their home, which I always thought was
the point of recreational high end audio.


Best ways to do to make the biggest difference towards better sound:

optimize speaker placement and listening position
apply treatments to improve room acoustics e.g.
- first-reflection absorption for highs and midrange
- bass traps
- room EQ
upgrade speakers

This is a good exemple of technical interesting audio advice... ;-)


Pretty much everything after that runs a distant second, except for
changing cables, which runs a distant third , if that.

Oddly enough, the 'subjectivists' here on RAO rarely seem to talk about
such important stuff as room acoustics. But there's plenty of it over on
avsforum.

This is a good exemple of very good audio bull****... :-(

"Lionel" wrote in message


IMHO the endless grotesque scuffle objectivists vs
subjectivists on RAHE has never helped someone to improve
the sound in his home too.

It's really not about Obs and Subs as I conclusively showed
at the HE2005 debate.

On RAO it's about thinkers versus non-thinkers with the
so-called subs posessing undisputed mastery of name-calling
and juvenile debating trade tactics.

Consider the irony of Middius chastizing someone for
name-calling.

One of the most respected opinion-leader in audio world
was writing recently on RAO :
"I merely state truths that you and others find
uncomfortable." With *truths* as key-word... Modest no ?
;-)

If you want to get really philosophical there is no truth,
just more correct and less correct. Note that the official
definition of lying includes the state of mind of the person
making the statement in question.

I'm afraid that such guy is a little bit too megalomaniac
and paranoid to be able to help you to improve the sound
in your home.

More so Middius and Weil than Mikey.

For my part I prefer music... and salacious discussions
on RAO ! ;-)

If you want *really* salacious discussions, there are far
better places to go. RAO in its current state seems to be
more about mediocrity and boredom.

Lionel wrote:
tubeguy a ?crit :
"Derrick Fawsitt" wrote in message
...

Can those apparently few people who use this Newsgroup just for matters
Audio advise me if there is a "more" appropriate newsgroup for dealing
with Audio queries ao running down the subject matter of "most" of the
posts leads me to believe that this NG is for anything and everything
except serious Audio buffs.
I do hope this post attracts those who are prepared to advise but no doubt
some people will take offence at the tenure of my remarks, I assure you no
offence is intended, I just want some loudspeaker advice but feel from the
subject matter of some of the posts I may be in the wrong place.
--
Derrick


You are in the wrong place. This as a big old flame war. Nobody here seems
to care about getting better sound in their home, which I always thought was
the point of recreational high end audio.

IMHO the endless grotesque scuffle objectivists vs subjectivists on RAHE
has never helped someone to improve the sound in his home too.

If someoen was persuaded to spend their money on
speakers (which *are* likely to sound different)
rather than cables (which *aren't*), they stood a much better shot at
improving the sound in their home than otherwise.


--
-S
"The most appealing intuitive argument for atheism is the mindblowing stupidity of religious
fundamentalists." -- Ginger Yellow

"Ruud Broens" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"tubeguy" wrote in message


You are in the wrong place. This as a big old flame war.

More old than big.

Nobody here seems to care about getting better sound in
their home, which I always thought was the point of
recreational high end audio.

Wrong. Several of us care about getting better sound in
the home. We just discuss serious audio topics some
place else (list already provided).

It's just that as long as the usual suspects continue to
focus on infantile bickering, which is all they seem to
be capable of, not a lot about audio of general use can
be said around here.


ok then, in what way would you set up a comparison between
several drivers, say tweeters, be they ionised plasma,
Heil amt, ribbon, dome or electrostats ?

and what metric / matrix will you use to justify /
formalize
X having better sound than Y or Z ??
Rudy

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
: "tubeguy" wrote in message
:
:
: You are in the wrong place. This as a big old flame war.
:
: More old than big.
:
: Nobody here seems to care about getting better sound in
: their home, which I always thought was the point of
: recreational high end audio.
:
: Wrong. Several of us care about getting better sound in the
: home. We just discuss serious audio topics some place else
: (list already provided).
:
: It's just that as long as the usual suspects continue to
: focus on infantile bickering, which is all they seem to be
: capable of, not a lot about audio of general use can be said
: around here.
:

ok then, in what way would you set up a comparison between
several drivers, say tweeters, be they ionised plasma, Heil amt,
ribbon, dome or electrostats ?

and what metric / matrix will you use to justify / formalize
X having better sound than Y or Z ??
Rudy

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
: "Ruud Broens" wrote in message
:
:
ok, that was fast, 5 minutes ahead of me, but doesn't
seem to be contributed much :-)
R.

"Arny Krueger" wrote

If you want to get really philosophical there is no truth,

You should have stopped here, Arny.


just more correct and less correct.

You just muddied the water ("correct")


Note that the official definition of lying includes the state of mind of
the person making the statement in question.

"state of mind"... in philosophy, religion
and law that’s called intent.


If you want *really* salacious discussions, there are far better places to
go. RAO in its current state seems to be more about mediocrity and
boredom.

"boredom"... but then you know your
audience better than I do .

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:25:08 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

If you want *really* salacious discussions, there are far
better places to go. RAO in its current state seems to be
more about mediocrity and boredom.

I sadly must admit that you've done an amazing job of achieving this
state for RAO.

Kudos, Arnold!

"Ruud Broens" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"tubeguy" wrote in message


You are in the wrong place. This as a big old flame war.

More old than big.

Nobody here seems to care about getting better sound in
their home, which I always thought was the point of
recreational high end audio.

Wrong. Several of us care about getting better sound in
the home. We just discuss serious audio topics some
place else (list already provided).

It's just that as long as the usual suspects continue to
focus on infantile bickering, which is all they seem to
be capable of, not a lot about audio of general use can
be said around here.


ok then, in what way would you set up a comparison between
several drivers, say tweeters, be they ionised plasma,
Heil amt, ribbon, dome or electrostats ?

PCABX

and what metric / matrix will you use to justify /
formalize
X having better sound than Y or Z ??

People's ears in a level-matched, time-synched,
bias-controlled listening test.

Arny Krueger a écrit :
"Lionel" wrote in message



IMHO the endless grotesque scuffle objectivists vs
subjectivists on RAHE has never helped someone to improve
the sound in his home too.


It's really not about Obs and Subs as I conclusively showed
at the HE2005 debate.

On RAO it's about thinkers versus non-thinkers with the
so-called subs posessing undisputed mastery of name-calling
and juvenile debating trade tactics.

Some of them are very charming guys. Obviously to know that you have to
*discuss* with them. A discussion is an exchange exempt of any conscious
proselytical attempts. :-)

Consider the irony of Middius chastizing someone for
name-calling.

Don't be so hard with him, Middius is sacrificing his life to Borg
hunting. Since he is dedicating his soul to this noble task don't ask
him to save some vigilance for self-awareness.

One of the most respected opinion-leader in audio world
was writing recently on RAO :
"I merely state truths that you and others find
uncomfortable." With *truths* as key-word... Modest no ?
;-)


If you want to get really philosophical there is no truth,

This was my point ! :-)

just more correct and less correct. Note that the official
definition of lying includes the state of mind of the person
making the statement in question.


And there's 100% chances that a guy who writes "I merely state truths"
is lying.


I'm afraid that such guy is a little bit too megalomaniac
and paranoid to be able to help you to improve the sound
in your home.


More so Middius and Weil than Mikey.


According to his persona, Middius takes care to "never" speak about
audio... OTOH he cannot help himself from acting like a Borg in many
other fields :-).

Considering his review of Trotsky speakers, Dave Weil is probably
suffering of a loss of earing in the 1500 - 3000 hz range or so.

Mikey seems to have the widest experience and he would be perhaps the
most interesting of the trio if only he could save his comments to what
he *really* knows.


For my part I prefer music... and salacious discussions
on RAO ! ;-)


If you want *really* salacious discussions, there are far
better places to go. RAO in its current state seems to be
more about mediocrity and boredom.

I haven't any ambition.

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:30:32 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

Considering his review of Trotsky speakers, Dave Weil is probably
suffering of a loss of earing in the 1500 - 3000 hz range or so.

So, when you listened to Greg's speakers, what made you think that?

"Arny Krueger" said:

Nobody here seems to care about getting better sound in
their home, which I always thought was the point of
recreational high end audio.

Wrong. Several of us care about getting better sound in the
home. We just discuss serious audio topics some place else
(list already provided).

It's just that as long as the usual suspects continue to
focus on infantile bickering, which is all they seem to be
capable of, not a lot about audio of general use can be said
around here.



I must assume you missed my question in another thread, so I'll ask it
here again:

How can I make useful sound files available to anyone of my class A
hybrid amps, in order to make a meaningful comparison with another amp
via PC-ABX?

Recently, Mike McKelvy and I were discussing the various topologies of
our respective amps, and we thought it would be interesting to compare
my amps with his Acoustat.
If this could be done via PCABX, it would save us a great deal of
shipping costs for a comparison IRL.

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

dave weil a écrit :
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:30:32 +0100, Lionel
wrote:


Considering his review of Trotsky speakers, Dave Weil is probably
suffering of a loss of earing in the 1500 - 3000 hz range or so.


So, when you listened to Greg's speakers, what made you think that?

Il n'y a pas de fréquence de raccord possible entre le YAG-20 et le
W20RC38 de chez Silver Flute. Tous les DIYers expérimentés s'y sont
cassé les dents.
De plus le W20RC38 présente un comportement "imprevisible" aux
fréquences auxquelles il est censé rejoindre le YAG-20 (3 khz) :
http://206.13.113.199/ncdiyaudio/mar...fer%20test.htm

J'en déduis, mon cher Dave, que si tu n'as pas su déceler ce problème
lors des longues heures d'écoute qui ont précédé la rédaction de ton
"article" c'est que manifestement tu souffre d'une tare, accidentelle ou
congénitale, de l'ouie dans la gamme de fréquence correspondant au
problème soit : 1000~1500 à 3000 hz.

Je reste à ta disposition,
Cordialement.

Lionel said:

Je reste Ã* ta disposition,



Je ne croix pas :-)

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message


How can I make useful sound files available to anyone of
my class A hybrid amps, in order to make a meaningful
comparison with another amp via PC-ABX?

Both amps should be driven by the same recording, the same
source, at relevant levels. A good source would be a number
of high quality digital recordings strung together, with
some test tones for level setting at the front.

Get a really good computer audio interface, load the amp
with a relevant load, attenuate a portion of the amps output
to match the input of the interface, and record the
attenuated output of the amp with the audio interface.

A pair of high quality 5K 2-watt carbon composition
potentiometers make a good power amp output attenuator.

I am currently recommending the M-Audio Audiophile 24192 as
a reasonably-priced but *overkill-enough* audio interface.
It works on PCs and I think Macs as well.

One you have made your digital recordings of the outputs of
the amps, use the test tones to match levels. Ensure that
the recordings have identical start and stop points within a
few milliseconds.

I use Adobe Audition for this, but the freebie Audacity
software looks like it has all the necessary tools as well.
I think Audacity runs on both PCs and Macs as well.

Most PCABX Compartors accept .wav files of any sample type
and rate that the local audio interface will handle.

It can also be useful to compare the input file to any
output files for the equivalent of a "Straight Wire Bypass
Test".

You can re-record the output recordings again and again to
simulate the effects of passing the test music through a
string of amplifiers. These files also are good for training
purposes. Even the best power amps can usually be heard
goofing-up the sound after 10 passes, for example.

Recently, Mike McKelvy and I were discussing the various
topologies of our respective amps, and we thought it
would be interesting to compare my amps with his Acoustat.
If this could be done via PCABX, it would save us a great
deal of shipping costs for a comparison IRL.

Thet's the big advantage of PCABX - you don't need to ship
equipment, just sound files. You can even do stereo
comparisons of amps for which only one channel is available.

"Lionel" wrote in message

Arny Krueger a écrit :
"Lionel" wrote in message



IMHO the endless grotesque scuffle objectivists vs
subjectivists on RAHE has never helped someone to
improve the sound in his home too.


It's really not about Obs and Subs as I conclusively
showed at the HE2005 debate.

On RAO it's about thinkers versus non-thinkers with the
so-called subs posessing undisputed mastery of
name-calling and juvenile debating trade tactics.

Some of them are very charming guys. Obviously to know
that you have to *discuss* with them. A discussion is an
exchange exempt of any conscious proselytical attempts.
:-)

Then the subs fail, beacuse they are proslelytizing for
their religion of shallow thought and stupid thinking.

Consider the irony of Middius chastizing someone for
name-calling.

Don't be so hard with him, Middius is sacrificing his
life to Borg hunting.

Too bad so many of the purported prey come out of the woods
with Middius on the tips of their spears.

Since he is dedicating his soul to
this noble task don't ask him to save some vigilance for
self-awareness.

Middius is the poster boy for people with 9 or more lives.

One of the most respected opinion-leader in audio world
was writing recently on RAO :
"I merely state truths that you and others find
uncomfortable." With *truths* as key-word... Modest no ?
;-)

If you want to get really philosophical there is no
truth,

This was my point ! :-)

just more correct and less correct. Note that the
official definition of lying includes the state of mind
of the person making the statement in question.

And there's 100% chances that a guy who writes "I merely
state truths" is lying.

Correctness is generally easier to evaluate because it can
be indepenent of the state of mind.


I'm afraid that such guy is a little bit too
megalomaniac and paranoid to be able to help you to
improve the sound in your home.

More so Middius and Weil than Mikey.

According to his persona, Middius takes care to "never"
speak about audio...

I think that's because Middius fancies himself such an
expert about audio that any serious comments about audio
would be a sure give-away. What was I saying about lack of
self awareness? ;-)

OTOH he cannot help himself from
acting like a Borg in many other fields :-).

He has become worse than what he hates.

Considering his review of Trotsky speakers, Dave Weil is
probably suffering of a loss of earing in the 1500 - 3000
hz range or so.

And up. Too many front row seats at too many loud concerts.

Mikey seems to have the widest experience and he would be
perhaps the most interesting of the trio if only he could
save his comments to what he *really* knows.

It makes things more fun!

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:23:13 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

dave weil a écrit :
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:30:32 +0100, Lionel
wrote:


Considering his review of Trotsky speakers, Dave Weil is probably
suffering of a loss of earing in the 1500 - 3000 hz range or so.


So, when you listened to Greg's speakers, what made you think that?

Il n'y a pas de fréquence de raccord possible entre le YAG-20 et le
W20RC38 de chez Silver Flute. Tous les DIYers expérimentés s'y sont
cassé les dents.
De plus le W20RC38 présente un comportement "imprevisible" aux
fréquences auxquelles il est censé rejoindre le YAG-20 (3 khz) :
http://206.13.113.199/ncdiyaudio/mar...fer%20test.htm

J'en déduis, mon cher Dave, que si tu n'as pas su déceler ce problème
lors des longues heures d'écoute qui ont précédé la rédaction de ton
"article" c'est que manifestement tu souffre d'une tare, accidentelle ou
congénitale, de l'ouie dans la gamme de fréquence correspondant au
problème soit : 1000~1500 à 3000 hz.

Je reste à ta disposition,
Cordialement.

I see. So you HAVEN'T heard the speaker system referenced.

I won't be going to get my hearing tested based on this flight of
fancy then.

Sander deWaal a écrit :
Lionel said:


Je reste Ã* ta disposition,




Je ne croix pas :-)

Je ne crois pas.

Croix = cross. :-)

"Arny Krueger" said:


How can I make useful sound files available to anyone of
my class A hybrid amps, in order to make a meaningful
comparison with another amp via PC-ABX?


Both amps should be driven by the same recording, the same
source, at relevant levels. A good source would be a number
of high quality digital recordings strung together, with
some test tones for level setting at the front.

Get a really good computer audio interface, load the amp
with a relevant load, attenuate a portion of the amps output
to match the input of the interface, and record the
attenuated output of the amp with the audio interface.

A pair of high quality 5K 2-watt carbon composition
potentiometers make a good power amp output attenuator.


OK, so for this to work, both Mike and I have to use the exact same
source, PC setup and dummy load (or speaker)?


I am currently recommending the M-Audio Audiophile 24192 as
a reasonably-priced but *overkill-enough* audio interface.
It works on PCs and I think Macs as well.


There's some work for me to be done in this regard, as it stands I
only have an on-board sound card on my mobo (Asus whatsoever).

The PC that sits in the living room, will have to do the work since
the one in my shack and the notebook are only connected via a wireless
LAN network.
Both have mediocre sound cards, if not worse, so they would be
useless for this to work.


One you have made your digital recordings of the outputs of
the amps, use the test tones to match levels. Ensure that
the recordings have identical start and stop points within a
few milliseconds.

I use Adobe Audition for this, but the freebie Audacity
software looks like it has all the necessary tools as well.
I think Audacity runs on both PCs and Macs as well.


Hold on: you're saying that we should match levels *after* the
recordings are made?


Most PCABX Compartors accept .wav files of any sample type
and rate that the local audio interface will handle.

It can also be useful to compare the input file to any
output files for the equivalent of a "Straight Wire Bypass
Test".


That I've done before, and that's why I know my amp will sound
different from most others :-)


You can re-record the output recordings again and again to
simulate the effects of passing the test music through a
string of amplifiers. These files also are good for training
purposes. Even the best power amps can usually be heard
goofing-up the sound after 10 passes, for example.


But there's no point in doing so, IMHO.
That wouldn't resemble a real-wprld scenario, no one is using 5 or 10
amps in a series string (unless one's name is Peter Walker grin )


Recently, Mike McKelvy and I were discussing the various
topologies of our respective amps, and we thought it
would be interesting to compare my amps with his Acoustat.
If this could be done via PCABX, it would save us a great
deal of shipping costs for a comparison IRL.

Thet's the big advantage of PCABX - you don't need to ship
equipment, just sound files. You can even do stereo
comparisons of amps for which only one channel is available.


But it still seems to be a problem to compare two amplifiers that are
located in resp. SoCal and the Netherlands, unless one is using the
exact same source, material, PC and dummy load.
Synchronizing the files afterwards isn't a problem I think.

However, I still don't understand how one can do a meaningful
comparison when one's to adjust levels *after* the recordings are
made.
That way, differences are sure to occur, especially when loudspeakers
are used as a load instead of resistance dummy loads.

Or am I missing something here?

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

dave weil a écrit :
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:23:13 +0100, Lionel
wrote:


dave weil a écrit :

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:30:32 +0100, Lionel
wrote:



Considering his review of Trotsky speakers, Dave Weil is probably
suffering of a loss of earing in the 1500 - 3000 hz range or so.


So, when you listened to Greg's speakers, what made you think that?

Il n'y a pas de fréquence de raccord possible entre le YAG-20 et le
W20RC38 de chez Silver Flute. Tous les DIYers expérimentés s'y sont
cassé les dents.
De plus le W20RC38 présente un comportement "imprevisible" aux
fréquences auxquelles il est censé rejoindre le YAG-20 (3 khz) :
http://206.13.113.199/ncdiyaudio/mar...fer%20test.htm

J'en déduis, mon cher Dave, que si tu n'as pas su déceler ce problème
lors des longues heures d'écoute qui ont précédé la rédaction de ton
"article" c'est que manifestement tu souffre d'une tare, accidentelle ou
congénitale, de l'ouie dans la gamme de fréquence correspondant au
problème soit : 1000~1500 à 3000 hz.

Je reste à ta disposition,
Cordialement.


I see. So you HAVEN'T heard the speaker system referenced.

Je n'ai pas besoin d'écouter les enceintes Europa pour connaitre le
comportement des haut-parleurs Silver Flutes.
J'ai moi-même construit plusieurs systèmes à partir des modèles W14RC25
qui sont, tu dois le savoir, des woofers bas-médiums parfaitement
homothetiques aux W20RC38, bien sûr les matériaux *aussi* sont identiques..
La réalisation d'enceintes cohérentes à partir de ce W14RC25 *nécessite*
un tweeter qui puisse être raccorder très bas, relativement aux
fréquences de raccordement traditionnelles des tweeters, c'est à dire
aux environs de 1500 hz. C'est pourquoi beacoup de gens expérimentés,
dont moi ;-), choisissent des tweeters de type "back chambered".

Par simple corrélation il est facile de comprendre pourquoi dans ces
conditions, il est impossible qu'un haut-parleur de plus grande
dimensions puisse avoir un comportement plus satisfaisant dans les
fréquences les plus élevées.


I won't be going to get my hearing tested based on this flight of
fancy then.

et pourtant... ;-)

Toujours à ta disposition,
Cordialement.

Lionel said:

Je reste Ã* ta disposition,


Je ne croix pas :-)

Je ne crois pas.

Croix = cross. :-)


Oops, that's what happens when one pretends to be an intellectual .

Anyway, I still don't believe it :-)

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

Sander deWaal said:

Anyway, I still don't believe it :-)

Certes que c'est Lionella la plus incroyable. Qui adore le Krooborg se condamne
a l'enfer. :-(


..
..
..

Sander deWaal a écrit :
Lionel said:


Je reste Ã* ta disposition,




Je ne croix pas :-)


Je ne crois pas.


Croix = cross. :-)



Oops, that's what happens when one pretends to be an intellectual .

No problem, I appreciated the attempt. ;-)

Anyway, I still don't believe it :-)

It's your problem... :-D

Arny Krueger a écrit :
"Lionel" wrote in message


Arny Krueger a écrit :

"Lionel" wrote in message




IMHO the endless grotesque scuffle objectivists vs
subjectivists on RAHE has never helped someone to
improve the sound in his home too.



It's really not about Obs and Subs as I conclusively
showed at the HE2005 debate.


On RAO it's about thinkers versus non-thinkers with the
so-called subs posessing undisputed mastery of
name-calling and juvenile debating trade tactics.


Some of them are very charming guys. Obviously to know
that you have to *discuss* with them. A discussion is an
exchange exempt of any conscious proselytical attempts.
:-)


Then the subs fail, beacuse they are proslelytizing for
their religion of shallow thought and stupid thinking.

"shallow thought" and "stupid thinking" are also a human way to avoid
dramatic errors and criminal obstinacy.

Consider the irony of Middius chastizing someone for
name-calling.


Don't be so hard with him, Middius is sacrificing his
life to Borg hunting.


Too bad so many of the purported prey come out of the woods
with Middius on the tips of their spears.

As long as he doesn't know that. ;-)


Since he is dedicating his soul to
this noble task don't ask him to save some vigilance for
self-awareness.


Middius is the poster boy for people with 9 or more lives.


That's true but romantism has also its own charm.


One of the most respected opinion-leader in audio world
was writing recently on RAO :
"I merely state truths that you and others find
uncomfortable." With *truths* as key-word... Modest no ?
;-)


If you want to get really philosophical there is no
truth,


This was my point ! :-)


just more correct and less correct. Note that the
official definition of lying includes the state of mind
of the person making the statement in question.


And there's 100% chances that a guy who writes "I merely
state truths" is lying.


Correctness is generally easier to evaluate because it can
be indepenent of the state of mind.


Since my axiom doesn't need to be evaluated.


I'm afraid that such guy is a little bit too
megalomaniac and paranoid to be able to help you to
improve the sound in your home.


More so Middius and Weil than Mikey.


According to his persona, Middius takes care to "never"
speak about audio...


I think that's because Middius fancies himself such an
expert about audio that any serious comments about audio
would be a sure give-away.

I think that you are wrong.

What was I saying about lack of
self awareness? ;-)


OTOH he cannot help himself from
acting like a Borg in many other fields :-).

He has become worse than what he hates.


That's sadly true.


Considering his review of Trotsky speakers, Dave Weil is
probably suffering of a loss of earing in the 1500 - 3000
hz range or so.


And up. Too many front row seats at too many loud concerts.


Perhaps army also.


Mikey seems to have the widest experience and he would be
perhaps the most interesting of the trio if only he could
save his comments to what he *really* knows.


It makes things more fun!

Or more pitiful, IMHO.

George Minimus Middius tries :

Sander deWaal said:


Anyway, I still don't believe it :-)


Certes que c'est Lionella la plus incroyable.

What do you mean ? :-)

Qui adore le Krooborg se condamne
a l'enfer. :-(

"à l'enfer", George. N'oublie pas l'accent. Il s'agit de la préposition,
non pas du verbe avoir. ;-)

Frankly, George, your French is really worst than my English (yes it's
possible)