I am currently running a pair of Maggie 1.6 mains and a B&W HTM-2 center.
The Maggies are pure magic for music, but these days I use my system for HT
about 90% of the time and think it's time to shift to a speaker better
suited to that purpose. I've been away from this hobby for awhile and
wanted to get some opinions from you guys at what I should be looking at.
I'll be in the market for a pair of floor standing main speakers and a
center. My budget is $2000 or less for mains and $750 or less for center.
I wouldn't mind having a pair of B&W Nautilus main speakers, but even the
504's are out of my price range.

What's that latest best bang for the buck speakers that are exceptional for
HT and good for music as well?

Thanks.

In article ,
"Jack Dotson" wrote:

I am currently running a pair of Maggie 1.6 mains and a B&W HTM-2 center.
The Maggies are pure magic for music, but these days I use my system for HT
about 90% of the time and think it's time to shift to a speaker better
suited to that purpose. I've been away from this hobby for awhile and
wanted to get some opinions from you guys at what I should be looking at.
I'll be in the market for a pair of floor standing main speakers and a
center. My budget is $2000 or less for mains and $750 or less for center.
I wouldn't mind having a pair of B&W Nautilus main speakers, but even the
504's are out of my price range.

What's that latest best bang for the buck speakers that are exceptional for
HT and good for music as well?

PSB, Paradigm for two.

Stephen

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 19:13:31 GMT, MINe 109
wrote:

In article ,
"Jack Dotson" wrote:

I am currently running a pair of Maggie 1.6 mains and a B&W HTM-2 center.
The Maggies are pure magic for music, but these days I use my system for HT
about 90% of the time and think it's time to shift to a speaker better
suited to that purpose. I've been away from this hobby for awhile and
wanted to get some opinions from you guys at what I should be looking at.
I'll be in the market for a pair of floor standing main speakers and a
center. My budget is $2000 or less for mains and $750 or less for center.
I wouldn't mind having a pair of B&W Nautilus main speakers, but even the
504's are out of my price range.

What's that latest best bang for the buck speakers that are exceptional for
HT and good for music as well?

PSB, Paradigm for two.

I second the Paradigm recommendation, in that price range. I've a
bunch of them scattered-around my house. (Only not for my main music
system, as I prefer a soft-dome tweeter for ultimate performance, and
they won't let go of their metal domes.)

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:56:39 GMT, dizzy wrote:

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 19:13:31 GMT, MINe 109
wrote:

In article ,
"Jack Dotson" wrote:

I am currently running a pair of Maggie 1.6 mains and a B&W HTM-2 center.
The Maggies are pure magic for music, but these days I use my system for HT
about 90% of the time and think it's time to shift to a speaker better
suited to that purpose. I've been away from this hobby for awhile and
wanted to get some opinions from you guys at what I should be looking at.
I'll be in the market for a pair of floor standing main speakers and a
center. My budget is $2000 or less for mains and $750 or less for center.
I wouldn't mind having a pair of B&W Nautilus main speakers, but even the
504's are out of my price range.

What's that latest best bang for the buck speakers that are exceptional for
HT and good for music as well?

PSB, Paradigm for two.

I second the Paradigm recommendation, in that price range. I've a
bunch of them scattered-around my house. (Only not for my main music
system, as I prefer a soft-dome tweeter for ultimate performance, and
they won't let go of their metal domes.)

Is "scattering" one of your recommendations for proper speaker
placement?

dave "deaf" weil wrote :

Is "scattering" one of your recommendations for proper speaker
placement?

Why do you care since you canoot make the difference anymore ?

dave "deaf" weil wrote :

Is "scattering" one of your recommendations for proper speaker
placement?

Why do you care since you cannot make the difference anymore ?

Gibberella returns to show the Krooborg and the Bug Eater how it's done.

Is "scattering" one of your recommendations for proper speaker
placement?

Why do you care since you canoot make the difference anymore ?

There's nothing quite like the osterized version of English that spews from the
keyboard of a babelfish-addicted salope.


..
..

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:04:24 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

dave "deaf" weil wrote :

Is "scattering" one of your recommendations for proper speaker
placement?

Why do you care since you canoot make the difference anymore ?

Unproven cavil.

George Minus Middius wrote :

babelfish-addicted salope.

I never use babelfish, you Minus ?

dave "deaf"weil wrote :

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:04:24 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

dave "deaf" weil wrote :

Is "scattering" one of your recommendations for proper speaker
placement?

Why do you care since you canoot make the difference anymore ?

Unproven cavil.

Why should I care to prove anything since *you* and me know that I'm
right. ;-)
BTW you ISP seems to have problem to refresh the message in due time.
Perhaps you should change for a more performant one.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:54:43 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

dave "deaf"weil wrote :

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:04:24 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

dave "deaf" weil wrote :

Is "scattering" one of your recommendations for proper speaker
placement?

Why do you care since you canoot make the difference anymore ?

Unproven cavil.

Why should I care to prove anything since *you* and me know that I'm
right. ;-)

I know no such thing. Nor have YOU shown any such thing either,
despite the joy that you found when you first read my truncated review
of a certain speaker.

BTW you ISP seems to have problem to refresh the message in due time.
Perhaps you should change for a more performant one.

Maybe you should check your own, since it seems to be sending the same
message a couple of minutes apart.

dave "deaf" weil wrote :

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:54:43 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

dave "deaf"weil wrote :

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:04:24 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

dave "deaf" weil wrote :

Is "scattering" one of your recommendations for proper speaker
placement?

Why do you care since you canoot make the difference anymore ?

Unproven cavil.

Why should I care to prove anything since *you* and me know that I'm
right. ;-)

I know no such thing.

So i's time to consult you ENT... :-D


Nor have YOU shown any such thing either,


Why do you care since you can hear "8 hz" sounds


despite the joy that you found

LOL !

when you first read my truncated review


Your review was a total fiasco and I have been the *only* one to read it.


of a certain speaker.

Of a bull**** speaker... Unfortunatly you cannot know that so you are
excused. ;-)

BTW you ISP seems to have problem to refresh the message in due time.
Perhaps you should change for a more performant one.

Maybe you should check your own, since it seems to be sending the same
message a couple of minutes apart.

Not the same message. It's not my fault if your ISP doesn't refresh your
list correctly.

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
dave "deaf" weil wrote :

Is "scattering" one of your recommendations for proper speaker
placement?

Why do you care since you cannot make the difference anymore ?

Thanks for spellchecking your gibberish.

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
dave "deaf" weil wrote :

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:54:43 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

dave "deaf"weil wrote :

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 21:04:24 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

dave "deaf" weil wrote :

Is "scattering" one of your recommendations for proper speaker
placement?

Why do you care since you canoot make the difference anymore ?

Unproven cavil.

Why should I care to prove anything since *you* and me know that I'm
right. ;-)

I know no such thing.

So i's time to consult you ENT... :-D


Nor have YOU shown any such thing either,


Why do you care since you can hear "8 hz" sounds


despite the joy that you found

LOL !

when you first read my truncated review


Your review was a total fiasco and I have been the *only* one to read it.


of a certain speaker.

Of a bull**** speaker... Unfortunatly you cannot know that so you are
excused. ;-)

BTW you ISP seems to have problem to refresh the message in due time.
Perhaps you should change for a more performant one.

Maybe you should check your own, since it seems to be sending the same
message a couple of minutes apart.

Not the same message. It's not my fault if your ISP doesn't refresh your
list correctly.

No! That canoot be!.

Arthur Tsechmeister wrote :

No! That canoot be!.

If you want you can !
....A little bit like for "yalmake".

Arthur Tsechmeister wrote :


"Lionel" wrote in message
...
dave "deaf" weil wrote :

Is "scattering" one of your recommendations for proper speaker
placement?

Why do you care since you cannot make the difference anymore ?

Thanks for spellchecking your gibberish.

You're welcome Arthur
Don't forget your "yalmake" or you will get a cold.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:11:55 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

when you first read my truncated review


Your review was a total fiasco

Not what you said at the time...

and I have been the *only* one to read it.

Actually I know of someone else who read it.

of a certain speaker.

Of a bull**** speaker...

Funny how you pay so much attention to its components. You spend lots
of time trying them out and testing them and reading about them.

Unfortunatly you cannot know that so you are
excused. ;-)

I already discussed some of the shortcomings of the speaker.

Looks like I've got you all wound up again, and I didn't have to do
anything...

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:11:55 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

Maybe you should check your own, since it seems to be sending the same
message a couple of minutes apart.

Not the same message. It's not my fault if your ISP doesn't refresh your
list correctly.

Ahhh, but it did. Why you corrected a misspelling and left the
grammatical butchery intact is beyond me.

My ISP is fine, thank you very much. You should worry about YOURS.

In message , Lionel
writes
Arthur Tsechmeister wrote :

No! That canoot be!.

If you want you can !
...A little bit like for "yalmake".

Sorry folks, but I have say as a newcomer to this Newsgroup who is
wrestling with ESl63's, Bosendorfers, B and W's and the like trying to
find a really good speaker without breaking the bank, I looked at the
subject of this thread with excitement hoping to find enlightenment.
How disappointed can you get, I am certainly unhappy to find nothing but
bickering, (even if in fun), on this Oh so promising subject. I mean
what's the purpose of it, it gets one absolutely nowhere and in fact has
already driven me elsewhere to another NG. However, I have the NG on my
PC up to now probably hoping I might see an improvement, not so it seems
so no doubt you will not miss me when I am gone, (don't answer
that).......

I remain with no help to make up my own mind which no doubt I would have
to do in the end in any case.
--
Derrick Fawsitt

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 16:30:31 -0500, "Clyde Slick"
wrote:


"Lionel" wrote in message
...
dave "deaf" weil wrote :

Is "scattering" one of your recommendations for proper speaker
placement?

Why do you care since you cannot make the difference anymore ?

Thanks for spellchecking your gibberish.

It reminds me of that great Firesign Theater radio skit called "Deputy
Dan" where someone hilariously translates a Spanish safety brochure
intended for children put out by the LA Police Department.

"Do not followthe balls when they make the street"...

Derrick Fawsitt said:

Sorry folks, but I have say as a newcomer to this Newsgroup who is
wrestling with ESl63's, Bosendorfers, B and W's and the like trying to
find a really good speaker without breaking the bank,

If you get the Quads, you'll probably need a sub.

Derrick Fawsitt said:

Sorry folks, but I have say as a newcomer to this Newsgroup who is
wrestling with ESl63's, Bosendorfers, B and W's and the like trying to
find a really good speaker without breaking the bank, I looked at the
subject of this thread with excitement hoping to find enlightenment.
How disappointed can you get, I am certainly unhappy to find nothing but
bickering, (even if in fun), on this Oh so promising subject. I mean
what's the purpose of it, it gets one absolutely nowhere and in fact has
already driven me elsewhere to another NG. However, I have the NG on my
PC up to now probably hoping I might see an improvement, not so it seems
so no doubt you will not miss me when I am gone, (don't answer
that).......

I remain with no help to make up my own mind which no doubt I would have
to do in the end in any case.



Well, you did receive some advice about your Quad problems.
For the rest, this newsgroup is about everything, and sometimes even
about audio.

RAO is the Usenet equivalent of a pub.

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

In article ,
Derrick Fawsitt wrote:

In message , Lionel
writes
Arthur Tsechmeister wrote :

No! That canoot be!.

If you want you can !
...A little bit like for "yalmake".

Sorry folks, but I have say as a newcomer to this Newsgroup who is
wrestling with ESl63's, Bosendorfers, B and W's and the like trying to
find a really good speaker without breaking the bank, I looked at the
subject of this thread with excitement hoping to find enlightenment.
How disappointed can you get, I am certainly unhappy to find nothing but
bickering, (even if in fun), on this Oh so promising subject. I mean
what's the purpose of it, it gets one absolutely nowhere and in fact has
already driven me elsewhere to another NG. However, I have the NG on my
PC up to now probably hoping I might see an improvement, not so it seems
so no doubt you will not miss me when I am gone, (don't answer
that).......

I remain with no help to make up my own mind which no doubt I would have
to do in the end in any case.

This sorta normal for newsgroups. The OP actually got a couple of useful
suggestions before the tangents started.

Did you return the Quads? It's hard to go back once you've heard a good
pair. To be fair, few will know that Bosie even makes speakers, although
there was some discussion here based on the presence of a piano in a
recent stereo show demo room. In my case, this would make the listening
experience more like my home than less!

Stephen

In message , Sander deWaal
writes
Well, you did receive some advice about your Quad problems.
For the rest, this newsgroup is about everything, and sometimes even
about audio.

RAO is the Usenet equivalent of a pub.

Well then, cheers!! Have one on me.
--
Derrick Fawsitt

In message , MINe
109 writes

Stephen.

This sorta normal for newsgroups. The OP actually got a couple of useful
suggestions before the tangents started.

I know and I was not trying to be too critical, I can't afford to be but
perhaps I was disappointed as I am grasping at any information I can get
at this point of time.
Did you return the Quads?
Yes, they are very faulty and probably need all their vital organs
replaced which in fairness to the dealer he is doing. They are going
down to Quad and when they come back I can make up my mind.
It's hard to go back once you've heard a good
pair. To be fair, few will know that Bosie even makes speakers, although
there was some discussion here based on the presence of a piano in a
recent stereo show demo room. In my case, this would make the listening
experience more like my home than less!
I know, and with my problem in choosing it really "throws the cat
amongst the pigeons" in that I am now even more confused.
One thing though, and this from a layman having the nerve to express his
opinion in this erudite Newsgroup, I have some very knowledgeable
friends connected with the Piano and they have always maintained that
its the hardest instrument to record. If this is so and the Bosendorfer
is reputably so good at it then surely it means its no mean reproducer
of orchestral music etc. ?
I would be interested in your comments on this. Bye the way, I won't be
able to try them out until the end of next week after which I will, if I
may, report back here.


Stephen
Thanks again for all your help.
--
Derrick Fawsitt

"Derrick Fawsitt" wrote in message
...
In message , Sander deWaal
writes
Well, you did receive some advice about your Quad problems.
For the rest, this newsgroup is about everything, and sometimes even
about audio.

RAO is the Usenet equivalent of a pub.

Well then, cheers!! Have one on me.
--
Derrick Fawsitt

Hey matey, you spilled your pint on me
Wantabovuh, mate?
I got my bovuh boots on!

In article ,
Derrick Fawsitt wrote:

One thing though, and this from a layman having the nerve to express his
opinion in this erudite Newsgroup, I have some very knowledgeable
friends connected with the Piano and they have always maintained that
its the hardest instrument to record. If this is so and the Bosendorfer
is reputably so good at it then surely it means its no mean reproducer
of orchestral music etc. ?

It could just mean the cabinets use very good wood!

http://www.audusa.com/bose.htm

Okay, they have special cabinets with "sound boards," which does sound
pianistic. I don't know anything about the designer, but it seems he
goes against the conventional wisdom of dampening cabinet resonances.

I would be interested in your comments on this. Bye the way, I won't be
able to try them out until the end of next week after which I will, if I
may, report back here.

Quads sound great with well-recorded piano music (no resonances!) but
they might be at a disadvantage in a large room.

Stephen

dave "deaf" weil a écrit :

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:11:55 +0100, Lionel
wrote:


when you first read my truncated review


Your review was a total fiasco


Not what you said at the time...


No at this time I said :
About Dave's BULL**** speaker review.
http://tinyurl.com/8u5fb

You unshamed liar... ;-)



and I have been the *only* one to read it.


Actually I know of someone else who read it.

That's right, yes Trotsky... :-D

of a certain speaker.

Of a bull**** speaker...


Funny how you pay so much attention to its components. You spend lots
of time trying them out and testing them and reading about them.

Yes that's right. A lot of DIYers have done the same thing and arrived
to the same conclusion : the component are correct for the price but the
speakers combinating W20RC38 and YAG-20 are bull**** due to the hole
frequency between 1 and 3 khz.
Since I have read what you wrote about them I conclude that you have
serious hearing problem in this frequency range.


Unfortunatly you cannot know that so you are
excused. ;-)


I already discussed some of the shortcomings of the speaker.


LOL, you was just writing : "bloom in the midrange"
You are a liar but it's not new... :-)



Looks like I've got you all wound up again, and I didn't have to do
anything...


It was just an advice from me Dave. Even if you go to consult your ENT
you will not be obliged to inform us.
BTW since you are a skillfull liar I am sure that you will be able to
continue to write tons about audio even if you miss 75% of the musical
message... You see, once again, I blindly trust you. ;-)

dave "Deaf" weil a écrit :

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 16:30:31 -0500, "Arthur Tsechmeister"
wrote:


"Lionel" wrote in message
...

dave "deaf" weil wrote :


Is "scattering" one of your recommendations for proper speaker
placement?

Why do you care since you cannot make the difference anymore ?

Thanks for spellchecking your gibberish.


It reminds me of that great Firesign Theater radio skit called "Deputy
Dan" where someone hilariously translates a Spanish safety brochure
intended for children put out by the LA Police Department.


But you and Mr Tsechmeister still carefully read my gibberish.
Note that you are missing less important information because of my poor
english than due to your incurable deafness.

"Do not followthe balls when they make the street"...

Do not follow Deaf-Dave when he's reviewing a speaker...

Sander deWaal a écrit :

[snip]

RAO is the Usenet equivalent of a pub.

Thank you for that Sander.

Derrick Fawsitt a écrit :
In message , Lionel
writes

Arthur Tsechmeister wrote :

No! That canoot be!.


If you want you can !
...A little bit like for "yalmake".


Sorry folks, but I have say as a newcomer to this Newsgroup who is
wrestling with ESl63's, Bosendorfers, B and W's and the like trying to
find a really good speaker without breaking the bank, I looked at the
subject of this thread with excitement hoping to find enlightenment.
How disappointed can you get, I am certainly unhappy to find nothing but
bickering, (even if in fun), on this Oh so promising subject. I mean
what's the purpose of it, it gets one absolutely nowhere and in fact has
already driven me elsewhere to another NG. However, I have the NG on my
PC up to now probably hoping I might see an improvement, not so it seems
so no doubt you will not miss me when I am gone, (don't answer that).......

I remain with no help to make up my own mind which no doubt I would have
to do in the end in any case.

Note that you are not obliged to read the nasty discussions I have with
Mr Arthur Tsechmeister.

BTW I haven't any usefull information to give you concerning the ES163
BUT I *strongly* suggest you to purchase some Focal Speakers because I'm
living near Saint Etienne in France and so it's good for local business.

You're welcom...

George Minus Middius a écrit :

Derrick Fawsitt said:


Sorry folks, but I have say as a newcomer to this Newsgroup who is
wrestling with ESl63's, Bosendorfers, B and W's and the like trying to
find a really good speaker without breaking the bank,


If you get the Quads, you'll probably need a sub.

How many time have you spent listening to Quads speakers, eh George ?
What was the system configuration ?

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 10:41:01 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

dave "deaf" weil a écrit :

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:11:55 +0100, Lionel
wrote:


when you first read my truncated review


Your review was a total fiasco


Not what you said at the time...


No at this time I said :
About Dave's BULL**** speaker review.
http://tinyurl.com/8u5fb

You unshamed liar... ;-)

"Dave, I'm not making any insulting accusations that appear
elsewhere in
this thread.
Do you plan to release to the group a summary of your observations?

No I don't. Sorry.

I'm agree with you Dave you haven't to do that.
But you don't need either to be sorry.
Why to be sorry"?

And, of course you wrote that it wouldn't have mattered WHAT I wrote
anyway:

"Yes I like to make nasty jokes about Trotsky and his speakers can you
understand that ? I despise Trotsky, he is an idiot, a cruel idiot.
Every critics you would have been able to write about his speakers
would have been munition for my sarcasms".

Actually, as it turns out, you are FAR more cruel than Trotsky could
ever wish to be. Funny how things turn out...

And of course, "Ok dave it sounds like a good serious job".

Or: " Dave, I guess that you have been brutally honest or perhaps
honestly brutal ? )"

Or: "Don't be sorry, Dave, I imagine that this test has been an
interesting and fun experience. I don't want to mark down your
pleasure but I haven't any chip on my
shoulder".

The last statement of yours marks YOU as a liar. You have one of the
biggest chips around here. Note the change of tone from what *I* quote
and the way you treat me now.

and I have been the *only* one to read it.


Actually I know of someone else who read it.

That's right, yes Trotsky... :-D

Oh, that's two.

of a certain speaker.

Of a bull**** speaker...


Funny how you pay so much attention to its components. You spend lots
of time trying them out and testing them and reading about them.

Yes that's right. A lot of DIYers have done the same thing and arrived
to the same conclusion : the component are correct for the price but the
speakers combinating W20RC38 and YAG-20 are bull**** due to the hole
frequency between 1 and 3 khz.
Since I have read what you wrote about them I conclude that you have
serious hearing problem in this frequency range.

You still haven't enumerated your complaint. You've got to show some
correlation.

Unfortunatly you cannot know that so you are
excused. ;-)


I already discussed some of the shortcomings of the speaker.


LOL, you was just writing : "bloom in the midrange"
You are a liar but it's not new... :-)

Oh, is THAT what you're hanging this on?

I think THIS is the phrase that you were looking for":

"The upper bass/lower midrange gets blunted or a bit
"congested" somehow".

Or the fact that I talk about how "lean" the speaker is throughout
most of the review. I went back and looked for the phrase "bloom in
the midrange" and didn't see it. Perhaps you could provide the quote
in context. I searched for it and the only example of that phrase was
someone telling me that they didn't expect me to write a phrase like
that. Perhaps your memory is faulty.

In fact, when attempting to explain to Paul Dormer what I meant by
lean (hey, there's a third!) I said "When the sound is lean (jangly
top end and punchy low end)...". Note the FR emphasis points. Sounds
to me that I intuitively recognized this hole (surely you don't claim
that there is NO midrange possible with this configuration) that
you're discussing. But perhaps you could show this damming phrase that
you quote in context.

Looks like I've got you all wound up again, and I didn't have to do
anything...


It was just an advice from me Dave. Even if you go to consult your ENT
you will not be obliged to inform us.
BTW since you are a skillfull liar I am sure that you will be able to
continue to write tons about audio even if you miss 75% of the musical
message... You see, once again, I blindly trust you. ;-)

dave weil a écrit :
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 10:41:01 +0100, Lionel
wrote:


dave "deaf" weil a écrit :


On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:11:55 +0100, Lionel
wrote:



when you first read my truncated review


Your review was a total fiasco


Not what you said at the time...


No at this time I said :
About Dave's BULL**** speaker review.
http://tinyurl.com/8u5fb

You unshamed liar... ;-)


"Dave, I'm not making any insulting accusations that appear

elsewhere in
this thread.
Do you plan to release to the group a summary of your observations?


No I don't. Sorry.


I'm agree with you Dave you haven't to do that.
But you don't need either to be sorry.
Why to be sorry"?

And, of course you wrote that it wouldn't have mattered WHAT I wrote
anyway:

"Yes I like to make nasty jokes about Trotsky and his speakers can you
understand that ? I despise Trotsky, he is an idiot, a cruel idiot.
Every critics you would have been able to write about his speakers
would have been munition for my sarcasms".

Actually, as it turns out, you are FAR more cruel than Trotsky could
ever wish to be. Funny how things turn out...

And of course, "Ok dave it sounds like a good serious job".

Or: " Dave, I guess that you have been brutally honest or perhaps
honestly brutal ? )"

Or: "Don't be sorry, Dave, I imagine that this test has been an
interesting and fun experience. I don't want to mark down your
pleasure but I haven't any chip on my
shoulder".

The last statement of yours marks YOU as a liar. You have one of the
biggest chips around here. Note the change of tone from what *I* quote
and the way you treat me now.

I already told you that Dave.
You was swimming in ridicule at this moment. IMHO, even if predictable,
you wasn't deserving such ingratitude from Trotsky. In fact I was
feeling a lot of pity and compassion for you... this explains my above
comments.
BTW at this time I didn't know that you only were an unshamed braggar.


and I have been the *only* one to read it.


Actually I know of someone else who read it.

That's right, yes Trotsky... :-D


Oh, that's two.

LOL ! I seriously thought that you would have the wit and decency to
omit Trotsky of your group of *readers*.


of a certain speaker.

Of a bull**** speaker...


Funny how you pay so much attention to its components. You spend lots
of time trying them out and testing them and reading about them.

Yes that's right. A lot of DIYers have done the same thing and arrived
to the same conclusion : the component are correct for the price but the
speakers combinating W20RC38 and YAG-20 are bull**** due to the hole
frequency between 1 and 3 khz.
Since I have read what you wrote about them I conclude that you have
serious hearing problem in this frequency range.

You still haven't enumerated your complaint. You've got to show some
correlation.


Already done...
Not my fault if you are afraid to comment the material I brought. :-)


Unfortunatly you cannot know that so you are
excused. ;-)


I already discussed some of the shortcomings of the speaker.


LOL, you was just writing : "bloom in the midrange"
You are a liar but it's not new... :-)


Oh, is THAT what you're hanging this on?

I think THIS is the phrase that you were looking for":

"The upper bass/lower midrange gets blunted or a bit
"congested" somehow".


Unfortunatly for you I don't comment on the bass/lower midrange which
are according the connoisseurs the strong point of the SF W20RC38.


Or the fact that I talk about how "lean" the speaker is throughout
most of the review. I went back and looked for the phrase "bloom in
the midrange" and didn't see it. Perhaps you could provide the quote
in context. I searched for it and the only example of that phrase was
someone telling me that they didn't expect me to write a phrase like
that. Perhaps your memory is faulty.

In fact, when attempting to explain to Paul Dormer what I meant by
lean (hey, there's a third!) I said "When the sound is lean (jangly
top end and punchy low end)...". Note the FR emphasis points. Sounds
to me that I intuitively recognized this hole (surely you don't claim
that there is NO midrange possible with this configuration) that
you're discussing. But perhaps you could show this damming phrase that
you quote in context.

LOL, there's a hole of 2 khz Dave in one of frequency range where the
music have most of information.
Your review is like your general RAO writings blur, hollow and undefine
full of way to escape in case of attack.

A serious audio lover and good audio reviewer would have written first
"this speakers have a redhibitory hole in the high-midrange..."

My conclusion is that you have hearing problem. Your audio comments on
RAO have zero value.
You are deaf Dave, deal with it.


Looks like I've got you all wound up again, and I didn't have to do
anything...


It was just an advice from me Dave. Even if you go to consult your ENT
you will not be obliged to inform us.
BTW since you are a skillfull liar I am sure that you will be able to
continue to write tons about audio even if you miss 75% of the musical
message... You see, once again, I blindly trust you. ;-)

dave weil a écrit :
Sounds
to me that I intuitively recognized this hole (surely you don't claim
that there is NO midrange possible with this configuration) that
you're discussing.

Unlike yours in this review MY STATEMENT is very simple : there's a hole
in the high-midrange between 1 khz and 3 khz.
If you don't know about this frequency range you still can check with
the midi tools of your computer... ;-)

But I wasn't back for that but just to comment your word "intuitively".
This word perfectly makes my point Dave.
Using this word you implicitly recognize your hearing problems and that
instead normal sens of hearing you are using *intuition*.

Intuition is the same thing that McKelvy uses to say that ABX is a
performant tools to make *the* good audio choice.
He never uses it but he has the strong intuition that it's a very good
experience.

ABX guy vs intuitive guy.
LOL, what a pair of ridicule disabled persons you are !!!

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:58:03 +0100, Lionel
wrote:


Or the fact that I talk about how "lean" the speaker is throughout
most of the review. I went back and looked for the phrase "bloom in
the midrange" and didn't see it. Perhaps you could provide the quote
in context. I searched for it and the only example of that phrase was
someone telling me that they didn't expect me to write a phrase like
that. Perhaps your memory is faulty.

In fact, when attempting to explain to Paul Dormer what I meant by
lean (hey, there's a third!) I said "When the sound is lean (jangly
top end and punchy low end)...". Note the FR emphasis points. Sounds
to me that I intuitively recognized this hole (surely you don't claim
that there is NO midrange possible with this configuration) that
you're discussing. But perhaps you could show this damming phrase that
you quote in context.

LOL, there's a hole of 2 khz Dave in one of frequency range where the
music have most of information.
Your review is like your general RAO writings blur, hollow and undefine
full of way to escape in case of attack.

A serious audio lover and good audio reviewer would have written first
"this speakers have a redhibitory hole in the high-midrange..."

So you say. That's YOUR opinion. I think I described the traits of the
speaker, and I certainly didn't use the phrase "midrange bloat" or
make ANY such representations of anything close to that.

My conclusion is that you have hearing problem. Your audio comments on
RAO have zero value.
You are deaf Dave, deal with it.

So, you were lying with the comment about "bloated midrange".

BTW, you seem to be saying that this speaker cannot EVEN reproduce 2
khz.

Actually it sounds to me like I was confirming EXACTLY what you were
quoting about the speaker combination. That sort of "hole", as you
put it, would cause a speaker to be very lean.

Poor little Lionel...that chip keeps getting bigger and bigger and
bigger...and now you've come down to lying about what people have
written. SHAME ON YOU!

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:15:14 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

dave weil a écrit :
Sounds
to me that I intuitively recognized this hole (surely you don't claim
that there is NO midrange possible with this configuration) that
you're discussing.

Unlike yours in this review MY STATEMENT is very simple : there's a hole
in the high-midrange between 1 khz and 3 khz.
If you don't know about this frequency range you still can check with
the midi tools of your computer... ;-)

But I wasn't back for that but just to comment your word "intuitively".
This word perfectly makes my point Dave.
Using this word you implicitly recognize your hearing problems and that
instead normal sens of hearing you are using *intuition*.

Intuition is the same thing that McKelvy uses to say that ABX is a
performant tools to make *the* good audio choice.
He never uses it but he has the strong intuition that it's a very good
experience.

Or it sounds to me like "I've never heard these two components in a
two-way box so I'll intuit what they sound like".

Who needs ears when you've got graphs to look at? A true synesthete
you are.

I still maintain that I described the sound of the speaker pretty
well...even to the handful of people who took the time to read it.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:15:14 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

dave weil a écrit :
Sounds
to me that I intuitively recognized this hole (surely you don't claim
that there is NO midrange possible with this configuration) that
you're discussing.

Unlike yours in this review MY STATEMENT is very simple : there's a hole
in the high-midrange between 1 khz and 3 khz.
If you don't know about this frequency range you still can check with
the midi tools of your computer... ;-)

Don't tell THIS DIY'er:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker13.html

Of course, his crossover is set at a trivial 200 hz lower than Mr.
Singh's. But that VIFA woofer doesn't have anything going on at 1 khz
either. And yet, people seem to like THAT design as well, and don't
complain that a wedge of sound has been removed...

http://www.audiodiycentral.com/milwaukee090403.shtml
" Great job on the crossover and driver integration John, very
seamless. I really liked how they imaged as well, they seemed to be
one of the best, but still tough to tell in a DIY meeting environment,
where set-up isn't quite like it is done in your own listening
environment".

Guess I'm not the only one with "hearing problems"...

In , dave weil wrote :

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:58:03 +0100, Lionel
wrote:


Or the fact that I talk about how "lean" the speaker is throughout
most of the review. I went back and looked for the phrase "bloom in
the midrange" and didn't see it. Perhaps you could provide the quote
in context. I searched for it and the only example of that phrase was
someone telling me that they didn't expect me to write a phrase like
that. Perhaps your memory is faulty.

In fact, when attempting to explain to Paul Dormer what I meant by
lean (hey, there's a third!) I said "When the sound is lean (jangly
top end and punchy low end)...". Note the FR emphasis points. Sounds
to me that I intuitively recognized this hole (surely you don't claim
that there is NO midrange possible with this configuration) that
you're discussing. But perhaps you could show this damming phrase that
you quote in context.

LOL, there's a hole of 2 khz Dave in one of frequency range where the
music have most of information.
Your review is like your general RAO writings blur, hollow and undefine
full of way to escape in case of attack.

A serious audio lover and good audio reviewer would have written first
"this speakers have a redhibitory hole in the high-midrange..."

So you say. That's YOUR opinion. I think I described the traits of the
speaker, and I certainly didn't use the phrase "midrange bloat" or
make ANY such representations of anything close to that.

My conclusion is that you have hearing problem. Your audio comments on
RAO have zero value.
You are deaf Dave, deal with it.

So, you were lying with the comment about "bloated midrange".

BTW, you seem to be saying that this speaker cannot EVEN reproduce 2
khz.

Actually it sounds to me like I was confirming EXACTLY what you were
quoting about the speaker combination. That sort of "hole",

Poor Dave it's not a sort of "hole" it's a real frequencies garbage.

as you
put it, would cause a speaker to be very lean.

This is totaly false. Your review is full of such word that don't mean
anything or which mean everything.
If I was criticizing the lack of low mids you would have answer : I have
written that this speakers are very lean... Idem for bass, highs...

You *should* know that a lean speaker is usually lacking of powerful highs
which is not the case of the YAG-20.
I'm sorry Dave a good audio reviewer need to have a precise vocabulary and a
good hearing. You are lacking of both.
Consequence, your review is applicable to 99.99% of the mediocre speakers.
At least did you write that they were mediocre speakers ? ;-)


Poor little Lionel...that chip keeps getting bigger and bigger and
bigger...and now you've come down to lying about what people have
written. SHAME ON YOU!

Shame on *you* Dave. You are playing the audio expert and you are just
showing us that you are totaly unable to make the difference between a good
a ****ty speaker.
Dave Weil, the only speaker reviewer who uses is intuition rather than his
hearing. What a joke. :-D

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 08:54:10 -0600, dave weil
wrote:

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:15:14 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

dave weil a écrit :
Sounds
to me that I intuitively recognized this hole (surely you don't claim
that there is NO midrange possible with this configuration) that
you're discussing.

Unlike yours in this review MY STATEMENT is very simple : there's a hole
in the high-midrange between 1 khz and 3 khz.
If you don't know about this frequency range you still can check with
the midi tools of your computer... ;-)

Don't tell THIS DIY'er:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker13.html

Of course, his crossover is set at a trivial 200 hz lower than Mr.
Singh's. But that VIFA woofer doesn't have anything going on at 1 khz
either. And yet, people seem to like THAT design as well, and don't
complain that a wedge of sound has been removed...

http://www.audiodiycentral.com/milwaukee090403.shtml
" Great job on the crossover and driver integration John, very
seamless. I really liked how they imaged as well, they seemed to be
one of the best, but still tough to tell in a DIY meeting environment,
where set-up isn't quite like it is done in your own listening
environment".

Guess I'm not the only one with "hearing problems"...

And yes, I know that it's a different tweeter, albeit one with pretty
much the same FR range...