Hello everyone, this is my first post in this group.

The Hafler website says that their products are no longer being
manufactured.
As I understand, they still offer tech support and guarantee.
I learned this just when I had made up my mind for a TA1600 power amp.

Should I go ahead with the Hafler, or not? I need this amp to power a
pair of Alesis Monitor One Mk2. Any suggestions very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Ruben

Ruben wrote:
Hello everyone, this is my first post in this group.

The Hafler website says that their products are no longer being
manufactured.
As I understand, they still offer tech support and guarantee.
I learned this just when I had made up my mind for a TA1600 power amp.

Should I go ahead with the Hafler, or not? I need this amp to power a
pair of Alesis Monitor One Mk2. Any suggestions very much appreciated.

Who cares if it's manufactured currently, if it sounds good?
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Ruben wrote On 10/26/05 20:27,:
Hello everyone, this is my first post in this group.

The Hafler website says that their products are no longer being
manufactured.
As I understand, they still offer tech support and guarantee.
I learned this just when I had made up my mind for a TA1600 power amp.

Should I go ahead with the Hafler, or not? I need this amp to power a
pair of Alesis Monitor One Mk2. Any suggestions very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Ruben


I have a P3000 and it's amazingly quiet and fairly colourless. And i will buy another when I
upgrade, unless I go with powered monitors.

Yes, buy it if you like how it sounds, but test it through your speakers with familiar material
first so you can be sure it is what you're looking for.

--fletch

Ruben wrote:

Hello everyone, this is my first post in this group.

The Hafler website says that their products are no longer being
manufactured.
As I understand, they still offer tech support and guarantee.
I learned this just when I had made up my mind for a TA1600 power amp.

Should I go ahead with the Hafler, or not? I need this amp to power a
pair of Alesis Monitor One Mk2. Any suggestions very much appreciated.

Get the Hafler. Straightforward amp, easily supportable, and realible. I
remain unimpressed by Alesis amps.

--
ha

I guess three coincident opinions is not a coincidence... nor a
conspiracy right?
just kidding

Thanks guys!

Ruben

"Ruben" wrote in message
oups.com...
I guess three coincident opinions is not a coincidence... nor a
conspiracy right?


Make it four.

Predrag

Ruben wrote:

I guess three coincident opinions is not a coincidence... nor a
conspiracy right?

No, man, we all just bought Hafler stock, especially since they're not
making the amps anymore...

just kidding

g

Thanks guys!

You betcha. The Hafler will be worth what it costs.

--
ha

Ruben wrote:
I guess three coincident opinions is not a coincidence... nor a
conspiracy right?

After conferring with my esteemed colleagues here, I think you should
get an Alesis amplifier. Then, when you return it and buy a Hafler,
you'll understand why some power amplifiers are better than others.

Ok, I did it. I'll post my experience with the Hafler later, maybe in
a couple of weeks. Thanks again for so much brainwashing!

Ruben

"Predrag Trpkov" wrote in message
...

"Ruben" wrote in message
oups.com...
I guess three coincident opinions is not a coincidence... nor a
conspiracy right?


Make it four.

Five.

Peace,
Paul

Who cares if it's manufactured currently, if it sounds good?

If it's not reliable, he'll care -- eventually.

"Ruben" wrote in message
oups.com
Hello everyone, this is my first post in this group.

The Hafler website says that their products are no longer
being manufactured.
As I understand, they still offer tech support and
guarantee.
I learned this just when I had made up my mind for a
TA1600 power amp.

Should I go ahead with the Hafler, or not? I need this
amp to power a pair of Alesis Monitor One Mk2. Any
suggestions very much appreciated.

It seems like a likely candidate for this application that
is in new production would be the new Behringer A500 amp -
no fans, lotsa power, low cost. Anybody have any experience
with this one?

In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Ruben" wrote in message
roups.com
Hello everyone, this is my first post in this group.

The Hafler website says that their products are no longer
being manufactured.
As I understand, they still offer tech support and
guarantee.
I learned this just when I had made up my mind for a
TA1600 power amp.

Should I go ahead with the Hafler, or not? I need this
amp to power a pair of Alesis Monitor One Mk2. Any
suggestions very much appreciated.

It seems like a likely candidate for this application that
is in new production would be the new Behringer A500 amp -
no fans, lotsa power, low cost. Anybody have any experience
with this one?

I don't. But the LAST thing you need to drive those speakers is a lot
of power. An Adcom GFA-535 will handle them just nicely.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article ,
"William Sommerwerck" wrote:

Who cares if it's manufactured currently, if it sounds good?

If it's not reliable, he'll care -- eventually.



Our P230s have run day and night since 1987. Hafler still provides servicing
for the time being.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Ruben" wrote in message
oups.com
Hello everyone, this is my first post in this group.

The Hafler website says that their products are no
longer being manufactured.
As I understand, they still offer tech support and
guarantee.
I learned this just when I had made up my mind for a
TA1600 power amp.

Should I go ahead with the Hafler, or not? I need this
amp to power a pair of Alesis Monitor One Mk2. Any
suggestions very much appreciated.

It seems like a likely candidate for this application
that is in new production would be the new Behringer
A500 amp - no fans, lotsa power, low cost. Anybody have
any experience with this one?

I don't. But the LAST thing you need to drive those
speakers is a lot of power. An Adcom GFA-535 will handle
them just nicely. --scott

Agreed that one can't go wrong with the Adcom or the Hafler.
They are classics of the good kind.

Not to be argumentative, but what about those Alesis Monitor
One Mk2 speakers?

They are rated at 88 dB/W and up to 200 watts EIA peak.

I read that as less efficient than average and sorta robust.

A 180 wpc amp seems like something that in the ball park.

I brought up the Berhinger because of the price and
availablity situation which is pretty attractive - not that
far from eBay pricing for the GFA 535 (just looked at closed
auctions).

William Sommerwerck wrote:

Who cares if it's manufactured currently, if it sounds good?

If it's not reliable, he'll care -- eventually.

Halfers have paroven themselves reliable.

--
ha

Scott Dorsey wrote:

In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Ruben" wrote in message
roups.com
Hello everyone, this is my first post in this group.

The Hafler website says that their products are no longer
being manufactured.
As I understand, they still offer tech support and
guarantee.
I learned this just when I had made up my mind for a
TA1600 power amp.

Should I go ahead with the Hafler, or not? I need this
amp to power a pair of Alesis Monitor One Mk2. Any
suggestions very much appreciated.

It seems like a likely candidate for this application that
is in new production would be the new Behringer A500 amp -
no fans, lotsa power, low cost. Anybody have any experience
with this one?

I don't. But the LAST thing you need to drive those speakers is a lot
of power. An Adcom GFA-535 will handle them just nicely.

From the website; note how the power is stated:

-----Begin Quote-----

REFERENCE AMPLIFIER A500
Professional 500-Watt Reference-Class Studio Power Amplifier

This ultra-linear power amplifier is the top choice for recording
studios and post-production work, yet its amazing price is just the
beginning. You get true audiophile-grade performance that delivers 2 x
230 Watts into 4 Ohms or 500 Watts into 8 Ohms bridged, with enough
overhead to always keep you on the safe side. The A500's advanced
convection-type cooling system guarantees stable, noise-free operation,
while its servo-controlled design can drive virtually all passive
speakers. A precise level meter and clip indicators are provided for
accurate performance monitoring. Input connections are laid out on
balanced XLR, 1/4' TRS and RCA connectors, making sure you never run out
of connectivity options. Plus, the speaker outputs give you a choice
between professional 'touch-proof' binding posts and 1/4' TS connectors.
To assure years of trouble-free operation, we only use the
ultra-reliable Toshiba® or Fairchild® high-power transistors that are
known for their rock-solid reputation. In addition to all these
features, an independent thermal overload protection system with LED
indicators for each channel automatically protects both your amplifier
and your speakers. Last but not least, we have relied on a tough
high-current toroidal transformer for absolute reliability and lowest
noise interference possible.

You deserve the very best in studio power amplification. Get the A500
and it will be love at first sight: it's reference-class audio,
ultra-reliable quality and super-affordable!

-----Begin Quote-----

Has a one-year warranty versus five years for the Hafler.

--
ha

"hank alrich" wrote in message
.. .
William Sommerwerck wrote:

Who cares if it's manufactured currently, if it sounds good?

If it's not reliable, he'll care -- eventually.

Halfers have paroven themselves reliable.

And, unlike many allegedly professional pieces of gear, the manual includes
a schematic, and the parts are not particularly exotic, so it'll remain
fixable.

Peace,
Paul

I use a Hafler amp I built as a kit over 24 years ago and it still
sounds Great!! ; even though it was the first soldering I ever did!
I'd say, get one before it's too late.
dale

I use a Hafler amp I built as a kit over 24 years ago and it still
sounds Great!! ; even though it was the first soldering I ever did!
I'd say, get one before it's too late.

Bear in mind that the current line of Hafler amps were not designed by David
Hafler.

William Sommerwerck wrote:

Bear in mind that the current line of Hafler amps were not designed by David
Hafler.

Nor are today's integrated circuits designed by Jack Kilby, but I use
them anyway.

Bear in mind that the current line of Hafler amps were not designed by
David
Hafler.

Nor are today's integrated circuits designed by Jack Kilby, but I use
them anyway.

I don't see your point. David Hafler's amplifiers have been generally
well-respected.

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in
message

Bear in mind that the current line of Hafler amps were
not designed by David Hafler.

Going back in history, neither were a lot of the Dynacos.

Nor are today's integrated circuits designed by Jack
Kilby, but I use them anyway.

I don't see your point. David Hafler's amplifiers have
been generally well-respected.

A some point in the now-distant past, the exact genesis of
amps from companies that Hafler headed became indistinct.

In the early 21st century, things have progressed well
beyond the point where only certain well-known personalities
design good power amps.

IMO we should judge equipment first and foremost by its
performance, in the here and now.

Arny Krueger wrote:
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in
message

Bear in mind that the current line of Hafler amps were
not designed by David Hafler.

Going back in history, neither were a lot of the Dynacos.

In the case of the Dynacos, there is a clear distinction between the good
ones that Hafler designed, and the others, some of which were very bad.

In the case of the new Hafler line, this is much less of an issue, mostly
because amplifier design is a lot more standard and a lot less seat of the
pants than it was thirty years ago.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
. ..
I use a Hafler amp I built as a kit over 24 years ago and it still
sounds Great!! ; even though it was the first soldering I ever did!
I'd say, get one before it's too late.

Bear in mind that the current line of Hafler amps were not designed by
David
Hafler.

Neither were the old ones, although he supervised them. At least some of the
work was done by Erno Borbely.

Peace,
Paul

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

In the case of the Dynacos, there is a clear distinction between the good
ones that Hafler designed, and the others, some of which were very bad.

Which were the non-Haflers?

In the case of the new Hafler line, this is much less of an issue, mostly
because amplifier design is a lot more standard and a lot less seat of the
pants than it was thirty years ago.

Unless you're Hafler; their schematic shows a rather un-standard design, not
at all the usual cookie-cutter circuit. Perhaps that's why they're so good;
some genuinely creative engineering went into them.

Peace,
Paul

I don't see your point. David Hafler's amplifiers have
been generally well-respected.

A some point in the now-distant past, the exact genesis of
amps from companies that Hafler headed became indistinct.

Well, the earliest non-Hafler Dynacos came from Acoustech designer
what's-his-name. And guess what -- it was his amplification that I gradually
decided had a "sway-backed" tonal balance.

I don't know what the topology of the current amps is. But not that many
years ago, it was the same (or very similar to)the Acoustat's.

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
I don't see your point. David Hafler's amplifiers have
been generally well-respected.

A some point in the now-distant past, the exact genesis of
amps from companies that Hafler headed became indistinct.

Well, the earliest non-Hafler Dynacos came from Acoustech designer
what's-his-name. And guess what -- it was his amplification that I
gradually
decided had a "sway-backed" tonal balance.

Frank Van Alstine?

I don't know what the topology of the current amps is. But not that many
years ago, it was the same (or very similar to)the Acoustat's.

I've looked at Hafler's circuit diagrams for one of the current models
(P4000) and the old 200, and they were considerably different from such amps
as the Dyna 400 (if that's what you're remembering as the post-Acoustat
Dyna). For one thing, they use Mosfets on the outputs.

Peace,
Paul

Well, the earliest non-Hafler Dynacos came from Acoustech designer
what's-his-name. And guess what -- it was his amplification that I
gradually decided had a "sway-backed" tonal balance.

Frank Van Alstine?

?????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????
?????

No, the honcho at Acoustat. I can't think of his name.

His amplifiers used a weird feedback network. This topology was used in the
Hafler "pro" amps.

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in
message
I don't see your point. David Hafler's amplifiers have
been generally well-respected.

A some point in the now-distant past, the exact genesis
of amps from companies that Hafler headed became
indistinct.

Well, the earliest non-Hafler Dynacos came from Acoustech
designer what's-his-name. And guess what -- it was his
amplification that I gradually decided had a
"sway-backed" tonal balance.

I don't know what the topology of the current amps is.
But not that many years ago, it was the same (or very
similar to)the Acoustat's.

AFAIK there was only one Dyna amp that fits that
description, and that would be the ST 120.

I received some correspondence from David Hafler at the time
that suggested that he did not design the ST-120 or PAT 4.

I've seen the schematics of both the ST-120 and the
contemporaneous Acoustat, and among other things, they
shared quasi-complementary output stages, single-ended power
supplies and output coupling capacitors.

Output coupling caps or other schemes that put the power
supply caps outside the feedback loop are susceptible to
creating significant bass boost with certain woofers.

I don't recall that the Acoustat amps had the
current-limited power supply and current-limited output
stage of the ST-120. The Acoustat amps were very easy to
burn out. The ST-120 was somewhat less fragile, but was
still rather delicate.

The fragility of the ST120 partially came from the fact that
Dynaco attempted to squeeze 60 wpc out of a pair of 2N3055s,
which just about everybody else rated at 30-40 wpc.

Later ST120s used uprated output devices. Dyna 120s also
used an unconventional current limiting to protect the
output stage. Most others used more sophisticated protection
circuits that were triggered by output current weighted by
the voltage across the output device. This circuit was no
secret as it was published in the RCA transistor manual that
included the 2N3055.

BTW, I have an operational ST-120 in my archives. While this
amp has a horrible reputation for sonics, it sounds and
measures well enough if it is in good shape. The design is
said to be able to operate with half of its output stage
fried, and of course then it sounds rotten.

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in
message
I don't see your point. David Hafler's amplifiers have
been generally well-respected.

A some point in the now-distant past, the exact genesis
of amps from companies that Hafler headed became
indistinct.

Well, the earliest non-Hafler Dynacos came from Acoustech
designer what's-his-name. And guess what -- it was his
amplification that I gradually decided had a
"sway-backed" tonal balance.

I don't know what the topology of the current amps is.
But not that many years ago, it was the same (or very
similar to)the Acoustat's.

AFAIK there was only one Dyna amp that fits that
description, and that would be the ST 120.

I apologize for my clumsy typing. No wornder everyone is confused.

When said "the earliest non-Hafler Dynacos came from Acoustech designer...",
I mistyped. I meant "the earliest non-Hafler-designed Haflers came from
Acoustat designer..."

Sorry about that.

As I said in another post, the Acoustat power amp (and preamp, I believe)
used a really odd feedback network that was carried over to the Acoustat
Haflers. I remember seeing it mentioned in the spec sheets just a few years
ago.

Again, sorry about the confusion. My bad.


BTW, I have an operational ST-120 in my archives. While
this amp has a horrible reputation for sonics, it sounds and
measures well enough if it is in good shape. The design is
said to be able to operate with half of its output stage
fried, and of course then it sounds rotten.

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. One of the tests I'd like to
run is to have people listen blind, casually, over a period of time, to a
wide variety of "classic" amps (both good and bad) and then run the same
amplifiers through Arny's double-blind AB and ABX testing. Why? Because
we'll something interesting from such tests.

BTW, I have an operational ST-120 in my archives. While
this amp has a horrible reputation for sonics, it sounds and
measures well enough if it is in good shape. The design is
said to be able to operate with half of its output stage
fried, and of course then it sounds rotten.

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. One of the tests I'd like to
run is to have people listen blind, casually, over a period of time, to a
wide variety of "classic" amps (both good and bad) and then run the same
amplifiers through Arny's double-blind AB and ABX testing. Why? Because
we'll something interesting from such tests.

I need either more patience, or someone looking over my shoulder. The last
sentence should read "Because we'll learn something interesting from such
tests."

And as long as I've the soapbox briefly again... The best kind of scientific
experiments are not directed at proving or disproving something, but in
asking "What will happen if I...?".