First of all... those who do not mix or care for Hip Hop need not
apply...

I'm trying to mix some Hip-Hop tracks (containing almost entirely
sampled or electronic instruments) and finding it a major challenge (in
a good way.) I'm going for non-fatiguing mixes with dynamics and full
bass that translates well.

Any thoughts on commercial material that would serve as a good
reference?

Lately i've been referencing Gangstarr's "The Ownerz" and other
assorted Premier/Guru material and "Reflection Eternal" by Talib Kweli
and Mos Def. The former is a more of a "dirty" sound. I'm amazed at
the amount of hiss/record noise in some of the samples used but it
works. "Reflection Eternal", I find to be very open sounding, clean
(for hip hop) and well balanced.

Suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Dan Fox

Daniel Fox wrote:
snip

I've done a bit of hip-pop and r&b mixing. One thing I have learned is
that just because you're using a sample, doesn't make it perfect for the
sound you're trying to achieve. Sometimes heavy compression, gating, EQ,
cutting/pasting, reverbing, automating, etc. can make an otherwise
"decent" or "appropriate" sample soung MUCH better.

In modern hip-hop/rap/r&b mixing there seems to be absolutely no shame
about heavy use of studio "tricks" such as pitch correct, looping
choruses, heavy overdubbing. This may seem obvious but it seems to get
neglected in a lot of lower budget projects.

This may also be obvious but there is almost zero dynamic range in most
hip-hop mixes. I find this is better done via automation and
fader-riding and relatively mild compression, rather than the other way
around.

Of course the basic fundamentals still apply for any mix: great musician
+ great performance + great recording = great foundation for a mix.

Best of luck! Let us know how it goes....i'll be working on a hip-hop
project starting tomorrow also!

--

Jonny Durango

www.jdurango.com

"If the key of C is the people's key, what is the key of the bourgeoisie?"

Hi Daniel,

been also working on that kind of projects for sometime now and if your
looking for some tight sound like the Gangstarr I would suggest the
following:

1. get your drums tight sounding what ever you do. you have to "feel"
the drums on the upper part of your tummy if that can be said...
2. get the bass blend with the drum (avoid frequency shadowing) and
have it as tight with the drum. What your looking for is bass/drum
balance and dynamic that "bounce" or talk together
3. bring the vocal in and have then blend with the rest (if eq and
other needed, do it) and have them at same lve (subjective) than the
drum/bass.
4. bring the sample in. You want to hear them, but they don't have to
hide the vocals but be behind (be careful of mono compatibility)
5. balance the all to taste being careful that the dynamics are-n't too
"out of control", if needed bring the kicks down

All the other processing (eq fx etc) is just as any other mix and the
tone of the track is a mater of taste.

hope that can help. check out also Eric Sermon chiltown album (like me,
chillin') and Angie Stone Remy Red of the Stone Love album for another
kind of sound/flavor. In the extremes Deuce Goose or horny of madlib
and mf doom (are madvilain album) might be sounding dirty but it has
its own vibe.

Mike

For reference check out:

"The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill" - Lauryn Hill

"Like water for Chocalate" - Common

"Chronic 2001" - Dr. Dre

Yusef Assaan

Black Cree

"More than Tracks and Beats"

201.735.0097

www.BlackCree.com

"WikaMike" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Daniel,

been also working on that kind of projects for sometime now and if your
looking for some tight sound like the Gangstarr I would suggest the
following:

1. get your drums tight sounding what ever you do. you have to "feel"
the drums on the upper part of your tummy if that can be said...
2. get the bass blend with the drum (avoid frequency shadowing) and
have it as tight with the drum. What your looking for is bass/drum
balance and dynamic that "bounce" or talk together
3. bring the vocal in and have then blend with the rest (if eq and
other needed, do it) and have them at same lve (subjective) than the
drum/bass.
4. bring the sample in. You want to hear them, but they don't have to
hide the vocals but be behind (be careful of mono compatibility)
5. balance the all to taste being careful that the dynamics are-n't too
"out of control", if needed bring the kicks down

All the other processing (eq fx etc) is just as any other mix and the
tone of the track is a mater of taste.

hope that can help. check out also Eric Sermon chiltown album (like me,
chillin') and Angie Stone Remy Red of the Stone Love album for another
kind of sound/flavor. In the extremes Deuce Goose or horny of madlib
and mf doom (are madvilain album) might be sounding dirty but it has
its own vibe.

Mike

"Great Hip Hop"

Can you say oxymoron?
Military Intelligence
Jumbo Shrimp

gg

"Joe Blough" wrote in message
0...
"Great Hip Hop"

Can you say oxymoron?
Military Intelligence
Jumbo Shrimp

gg

Reagan memoirs.....
Long Distance Relationship...
Scrap Gold...(saw that in a pawn shop once)

BTW, there is great hip-hop, but very little...

Mikey

Jonny Durango wrote:


One thing I have learned is
that just because you're using a sample, doesn't make it perfect for the
sound you're trying to achieve. Sometimes heavy compression, gating, EQ,
cutting/pasting, reverbing, automating, etc. can make an otherwise
"decent" or "appropriate" sample soung MUCH better.

This one gets me. What you say makes complete sense, but somehow the
purist on my shoulder tells me not to compress (again) drums and other
samples that have already been through loads of compression and
limiting including mastering. Maybe I just need to let go of these
notions when it comes to this genre.


This may also be obvious but there is almost zero dynamic range in most
hip-hop mixes. I find this is better done via automation and
fader-riding and relatively mild compression, rather than the other way
around.

This is sadly true. But what intrigues me is that you can listen to 2
hip hop tracks. On either one the meters stay lit and hardly move but
one can still sound much more dynamic even if it isn't. Maybe just
multiple layers of clean quality compression vs. a one time heavy
handed smack down....?

Of course the basic fundamentals still apply for any mix: great musician
+ great performance + great recording = great foundation for a mix.

No question.


Best of luck!

Thanks, - so far i've put in a lot of hours but am very satisfied. If
anyone is interested the group is The Foundation. These are tracks
that I produced and engineered and some of which I played Bass on.
www.foundationhiphop.net

Dan Fox

WikaMike wrote:
2. get the bass blend with the drum (avoid frequency shadowing) and
have it as tight with the drum. What your looking for is bass/drum
balance and dynamic that "bounce" or talk together

Its been interesting trying to get both kick and bassline to sound huge
without stepping on each other. What has been working is - if the
bassline is a deep synth type of thing EQ the kick to be more present
just above the primary frequency range of the bass. If its a sampled
electric bass do the opposite and make the bass punchier in the low
mids and make the kick the bottom dweller. An RTA like the Waves PAZ
is helpful at times for seeing at which frequencies the sound contains
the most energy.

Dan

"Great Hip Hop"

Can you say oxymoron?
Military Intelligence
Jumbo Shrimp



Reagan memoirs.....
Long Distance Relationship...
Scrap Gold...(saw that in a pawn shop once)

BTW, there is great hip-hop, but very little...

Just like any genre, you trolls.

"Chronic 2001" - Dr. Dre

This gets shouted out a lot. One thing I notice is that Dre chooses
synth bass sounds that are very wide range with a lot of harmonics.
This enable them to still sound very full and present without making
neccessarily making woofers melt. Anyone know what other techniques,
gear , engineers went into the sound of this album?


www.BlackCree.com

Nicely done website.

Dan

"Daniel Fox" wrote in news:1130563145.616113.180890
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

This is sadly true. But what intrigues me is that you can listen to 2
hip hop tracks. On either one the meters stay lit and hardly move but
one can still sound much more dynamic even if it isn't. Maybe just
multiple layers of clean quality compression vs. a one time heavy
handed smack down....?

IME, the constantly pegged meters are usually the result of super-
compressed bass. As the upper elements ebb and flow, the bass takes the
rest of the volume bandwidth.

Daniel Fox wrote:
"Chronic 2001" - Dr. Dre

This gets shouted out a lot. One thing I notice is that Dre chooses
synth bass sounds that are very wide range with a lot of harmonics.
This enable them to still sound very full and present without making
neccessarily making woofers melt. Anyone know what other techniques,
gear , engineers went into the sound of this album?


I think the original "The Chronic" is a far better example of
'Audiophile' hip-hop.

I can look up some more background, but offhand I can tell you it was
mixed by Chris "The Glove" Taylor.


STRATEGY





www.BlackCree.com

Nicely done website.

Dan

Daniel Fox wrote:
First of all... those who do not mix or care for Hip Hop need not
apply...

I'm trying to mix some Hip-Hop tracks (containing almost entirely
sampled or electronic instruments) and finding it a major challenge (in
a good way.) I'm going for non-fatiguing mixes with dynamics and full
bass that translates well.

Any thoughts on commercial material that would serve as a good
reference?

I don't do hip hop, and I don't even claim to know hip hop. Even so,
I suggest listening to the Eightball Records compilation.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."