I would like to start recording (no previous experience) classical
music on the piano at home, and don't really know where to start. I
assume I should look into condensor mikes? I've seen a few on B&H. I
would like to record in stereo, and in digital format. What equipment
do I need to produce adequate recordings? budget of 500-600, piano is
a mason and hamlin 7'. Do I just get a digital recorder, and then
transfer over to the comp for editing?

"Jiyang" wrote ...
I would like to start recording (no previous experience) classical
music on the piano at home, and don't really know where to start. I
assume I should look into condensor mikes? I've seen a few on B&H. I
would like to record in stereo, and in digital format. What equipment
do I need to produce adequate recordings? budget of 500-600, piano is
a mason and hamlin 7'. Do I just get a digital recorder, and then
transfer over to the comp for editing?

Is this an upright or a grand piano?
What is your room like? (Acoustically!)

You could just record directly to your computer if it is anywhere
near convienent.

Jiyang wrote:

I would like to start recording (no previous experience) classical
music on the piano at home, and don't really know where to start. I
assume I should look into condensor mikes? I've seen a few on B&H. I
would like to record in stereo, and in digital format. What equipment
do I need to produce adequate recordings? budget of 500-600, piano is
a mason and hamlin 7'.

For your first few projects, I would recommend that you rent a
reasonable portable recorder (perhaps even one that includes a CD writer
so you can do all your work within the unit) and some decent microphones
(I've had very good luck with AKG C451s on a recent project; these are
small diaphragm condensor microphones and are very well known).

Get to know what you like and dislike about the available gear, then
start to look for gear to purchase that has more of what you like than
what you dislike.

By renting for a few projects, you give yourself an opportunity to
sample various equipment (and it's important to try different
microphones) without committing to buying any of it.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Robitaille

Major in Electroacoustic Studies Concordia University
Faculty of Fine Arts / Music Department Montreal, Quebec, Canada
----------------------------------------------------------------------

On 10/19/05 9:20 PM, in article
, "Jiyang"
wrote:

I would like to start recording (no previous experience) classical
music on the piano at home, and don't really know where to start. I
assume I should look into condensor mikes? I've seen a few on B&H. I
would like to record in stereo, and in digital format. What equipment
do I need to produce adequate recordings? budget of 500-600, piano is
a mason and hamlin 7'. Do I just get a digital recorder, and then
transfer over to the comp for editing?


There is no need for condensor mics

There is no need for any special recorder.

Somebody recommend one of the simple 2-channel mic input all-in-one digital
portastudios (ther EASIEST one to drive preferably) that will also shoot
files to his computer...
Add to that a pair of simple omnidirectional mics
(dynamic or condensor, whichever is inexpensive),
2 cables, one stand and a stereo bar and let him start working!

In article .com,
Jiyang wrote:


I would like to start recording (no previous experience) classical
music on the piano at home, and don't really know where to start. I
assume I should look into condensor mikes? I've seen a few on B&H. I
would like to record in stereo, and in digital format. What equipment
do I need to produce adequate recordings?

"Adequate" is relative.

I would seriously consider something from this list:

http://www.zzounds.com/cat--Removabl...titracks--2882

And a pair of microphones (research them, try not to skimp, (maybe get a
pair of condensors like Marshal 603s *and* a pair of dynamics like
Shure). You might need a "real" preamp, and a good 2-channel one won't
be cheap.

Depending on how comfortable you are with the computer (both "using it",
and "quiet enough to be in the same room as your piano"), you might be
better off with a high quality sound card, and the same mikes and
preamps as before.

Nobody can tell you what mics or preamps to buy any more than they can
tell you what kind of dog to get or what kind of car you should drive.

Personally, I've gotten results I'd call adequate with the following:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHMXB1002
http://www.avantonline.com/marshall_mxl603s.htm
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...749505-7661423

But then, I don't expect anyone else to ever listen to the results --
and if I came up with anything worth "doing right", I'd go to a studio,
and play someone else's nice Yamaha or Steinway, and have it recorded in
the real pretty room :-)

Given the choice, rather than making sure that the computer is 'quiet
enough to be in the same room as your piano', I'd have long enough
cables and try to make sure the computer is in *another* room than the
piano.

Probably you'll need to walk back and forth a bit to start/stop the
recording, which admittedly is a pain, but it will give you more choice
in mic placement. You will no longer be limited to close-miking the
piano to prevent picking up fan noise. Pay some attention to squeaking
pedals and cracking furniture and you won't have to painstakingly 'fix'
those noises later on. I hear superglue can even fix cracking floors.
Depending on the building you're in, your direct neighbours may
actually be the biggest 'uncontrollable' source of unwanted noise.

Look at this mike (a couple in X/Y or spaced microphones technique):
http://www.behringer.com/C-1/index.cfm?lang=ENG

or similar, like this (very similar to the studio-standard Neumann!!!):
http://www.behringer.com/B-2PRO/index.cfm?lang=ENG

A good Shure (not very cheap, but it can work also on battery power, without
Phantom):
and at this mixer:
http://www.shure.com/microphones/models/sm94.asp

If you want something very simple and cheap (but you should have a stereo
mic input at the computer; computer mic input isn't very good):
http://www.minidisco.com/ecm-ms907.html

And at this mixer:
http://www.behringer.com/UB1202FX/index.cfm?lang=ENG
or a similar one.

Behringer products are very cheap, but very good!

Ask if you need other info's!

Richard Crowley wrote:
"Jiyang" wrote ...
I would like to start recording (no previous experience) classical
music on the piano at home, and don't really know where to start. I
assume I should look into condensor mikes? I've seen a few on B&H. I
would like to record in stereo, and in digital format. What equipment
do I need to produce adequate recordings? budget of 500-600, piano is
a mason and hamlin 7'. Do I just get a digital recorder, and then
transfer over to the comp for editing?

Is this an upright or a grand piano?
What is your room like? (Acoustically!)

Well, he said it's a 7' piano. A 7' upright would be quite interesting
but rather unusual...

I'm no audio expert, but it sounds like you want a simple-to-figure-out
solution that records stereo well, but doesn't take an expert to get
good results with. You aren't going to need eight channels for future
recording of your rock-and-roll band. And if your piano is in your
living room, you don't want a permanent recording studio installation,
since you need to clear stuff out for your dinner parties. Recording
direct to your computer is a very nice thing -- saves several steps of
transferring, saves a piece of equipment, and makes it trivial to do
"punch-ins" to fix wrong notes.

I'd say get a Rode NT-4 stereo mic ($449 at Swee****er, cheaper
elsewhere, try making "best offers" on ebay), and a computer interface
that comes with good preamps and includes simple but effective
recording software -- the Mackie Spike ($250 on sale at Swee****er,
includes Tracktion software) seems an excellent choice for what you're
doing. That also gets you all the cables you need, so a weighted-base
microphone stand (so you can use some old carpet under it to reduce
pedalling "thunks") and a pair of decent headphones should complete
your system. You can also run cables from the Spike to your stereo for
an almost-free monitoring system. Experiment with mic placement ranging
from over the strings to the opposite end of the room.

And if you have a small computer, like a laptop or a G5 iMac, you can
put it on the edge of your piano's music rack and control the entire
process from the piano bench.

Rodney Sauer
Mont Alto Motion Picture Orchestra
www.mont-alto.com

"Jiyang" wrote in message
oups.com
I would like to start recording (no previous experience)
classical music on the piano at home, and don't really
know where to start. I assume I should look into
condensor mikes? I've seen a few on B&H.

Not a bad place for looking, but they aren't exactly
specialists in low end gear.

Let's face it, you're just starting out.

I would like
to record in stereo, and in digital format.

Seems very reasonable.

What equipment do I need to produce adequate recordings?
budget of 500-600, piano is a mason and hamlin 7'. Do I
just get a digital recorder, and then transfer over to
the comp for editing?

One option may be to just make the recording on the computer
in the first place.

The basics for you would be:

(1) stereo mic preamp or small console
(2) Two mics, probably not of the vocal persuasion. Also
some cables.
(3) Some kind of digital recorder, with the computer you
already have being on the list of possibilities.
(4) Some kind of recording/editing software. There's a
freeware package called Audacity, for example.

wrote:

Well, he said it's a 7' piano. A 7' upright would be quite interesting
but rather unusual...

Bechstein made a bunch of them. My piano teacher had one when I was a
kid and it was really neat.

I'd say get a Rode NT-4 stereo mic ($449 at Swee****er, cheaper
elsewhere, try making "best offers" on ebay), and a computer interface
that comes with good preamps and includes simple but effective
recording software -- the Mackie Spike ($250 on sale at Swee****er,
includes Tracktion software) seems an excellent choice for what you're
doing. That also gets you all the cables you need, so a weighted-base
microphone stand (so you can use some old carpet under it to reduce
pedalling "thunks") and a pair of decent headphones should complete
your system. You can also run cables from the Spike to your stereo for
an almost-free monitoring system. Experiment with mic placement ranging
from over the strings to the opposite end of the room.

I'd tend to agree for the most part, although I'd probably suggest using
the Lavry interface box instead of the Spike. The NT-4 is very limited,
but those configuration limitations might be to your advantage.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Thanks for the responses. Right now I'm leaning towards the computer
option since I already have a laptop. By mic preamp, is it also known
as a computer audio interface that plugs in using a usb cable? Other
than B&H, where else can I look to buy the equipment? Is there a
website that explains everything?

"Jiyang" wrote in message
oups.com
Thanks for the responses. Right now I'm leaning towards
the computer option since I already have a laptop.

By mic preamp, is it also known as a computer audio
interface that plugs in using a usb cable?

No, that's a computer audio interface with a USB interface.
It may have a built-in mic preamp or not.

Other than
B&H, where else can I look to buy the equipment?

About a zillion web sites.

Is there a website that explains everything?

Start he

http://www.etcetera.co.uk/Support/ho...ctGuitar.shtml

rodney wrote:

And if you have a small computer, like a laptop or a G5 iMac, you can
put it on the edge of your piano's music rack and control the entire
process from the piano bench.

And enjoy the sound of the hard drive and the cooling fans, essential
parts of any good piano recording.

--
ha

Both at $300, which would be better for recording piano? The Rode Nt5
or AKG c1000?

"Jiyang" wrote in message
ups.com...
Both at $300, which would be better for recording piano? The Rode Nt5
or AKG c1000?

The NT5. The C1000 is a piece of junk.

Peace,
Paul

Jiyang wrote:
By mic preamp, is it also known
as a computer audio interface that plugs in using a usb cable?

Look at the Tascam US-122 "USB Audio/Midi Interface."
Sounds right down your ally. I've used it a lot for stereo
recording with nary a problem. Really nice feature set as
well as more than decent quality results. $200 or thereabouts.

As for sources and prices, Froogle is your friend:

http://froogle.google.com/


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Jiyang wrote:
Both at $300, which would be better for recording piano? The Rode Nt5
or AKG c1000?

You'll get a chorus of this answer: the Rode NT5, hands down.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Look at these recording notes:
http://www.shure.com/booklets/default.asp

"hank alrich" wrote in message . ..
rodney wrote:

And if you have a small computer, like a laptop or a G5 iMac, you can
put it on the edge of your piano's music rack and control the entire
process from the piano bench.

And enjoy the sound of the hard drive and the cooling fans, essential
parts of any good piano recording.


Must you always be so honest? ;-)

Let the HDrive set the tempo!

In article . com,
Jiyang wrote:
Both at $300, which would be better for recording piano? The Rode Nt5
or AKG c1000?

I don't know about the NT-5. But I find it hard to imagine any microphone
ever sounding worse than the C-1000.

For $450 or so you can find the Josephson Series Four, which actually even
sounds good.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Bob Cain wrote:

Jiyang wrote:
By mic preamp, is it also known
as a computer audio interface that plugs in using a usb cable?

Look at the Tascam US-122 "USB Audio/Midi Interface."
Sounds right down your ally. I've used it a lot for stereo
recording with nary a problem. Really nice feature set as
well as more than decent quality results. $200 or thereabouts.

I can also recommend the Edirol UA25 interface. Nice little box and very
sturdy.

--
ha

Out of curiosity, what type of equipment does DG or Sony use for their
recording studio(s)?

Jiyang wrote:
Out of curiosity, what type of equipment does DG or Sony use for their
recording studio(s)?

All kinds of stuff, much of it custom. There used to be a nice discussion
of the newer DG digital mixing stuff on the DG web site. Personally, I
can't stand the multimiked DG sound, but it's sold records.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Bob Cain wrote:


Jiyang wrote:

By mic preamp, is it also known
as a computer audio interface that plugs in using a usb cable?


Look at the Tascam US-122 "USB Audio/Midi Interface." Sounds right down
your ally. I've used it a lot for stereo recording with nary a
problem. Really nice feature set as well as more than decent quality
results. $200 or thereabouts.

Something I forgot about the US-122. Since each channel's
gain is set independantly, stereo can be difficult. I
solved that by finding a small vacuum cleaner belt that fits
snug over both knobs and allows pretty close tracking.
There aren't too many two channel boxes that make that an
easy thing to do. They are usually either not cylindrical
knobs or the phantom switch gets in the way.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

In article ,
Bob Cain wrote:

Something I forgot about the US-122. Since each channel's
gain is set independantly, stereo can be difficult. I
solved that by finding a small vacuum cleaner belt that fits
snug over both knobs and allows pretty close tracking.

You had an Etch-a-Sketch when you were a kid, didn't you?

james wrote:
In article ,
Bob Cain wrote:


Something I forgot about the US-122. Since each channel's
gain is set independantly, stereo can be difficult. I
solved that by finding a small vacuum cleaner belt that fits
snug over both knobs and allows pretty close tracking.


You had an Etch-a-Sketch when you were a kid, didn't you?

LOL! And a room of my own in the basement with a "lab"
bench. :-)


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

"hank alrich" wrote in message
. ..
rodney wrote:

And if you have a small computer, like a laptop or a G5 iMac, you can
put it on the edge of your piano's music rack and control the entire
process from the piano bench.

And enjoy the sound of the hard drive and the cooling fans, essential
parts of any good piano recording.

--
ha

I routinely use Nuendo on a laptop with a firepod to record acoustic
instruments. It is dead silent.

"Jona Vark" wrote:

I routinely use Nuendo on a laptop with a firepod to record acoustic
instruments. It is dead silent.



What kind of laptop are you using? Mine's noisy as hell.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

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