High

I have a very difficult situation here.

I have a friend that has a bar outdoors, on the seashore. ight next to it
there are houses. After 12:00 at night he has to turn down the volume in
order not to anoy the neighbours. But then most of the customers will leave
because there is no more fun.

I have looked up and found that he can raise some insulating walls. But
this will destroy the scenery.

Is there a way to setup the speakers, maybe buy special speakers that will
create a descent sound only at the area of the bar, but creating no noise
10-20 meters away, where the houses are?

Thanks
Bob

In article 1122989043.23580@athnrd02, BobPit wrote:

I have a very difficult situation here.

I have a friend that has a bar outdoors, on the seashore. ight next to it
there are houses. After 12:00 at night he has to turn down the volume in
order not to anoy the neighbours. But then most of the customers will leave
because there is no more fun.

I have looked up and found that he can raise some insulating walls. But
this will destroy the scenery.

Is there a way to setup the speakers, maybe buy special speakers that will
create a descent sound only at the area of the bar, but creating no noise
10-20 meters away, where the houses are?

No.
He is going to have to move.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I've seen a clever idea at a shopping centers that demo CDs by having a
small speaker mounted in the focal point of a carbon fiber parabolic
reflector, pointing down. The public is 'showered' with the sound of a
CD. Several CDs are played in several 'sound showers'. Outside of the
'sound beam' the reduction in sound is quite remarkable.

In your friend's case, setting up a speaker under a reflector might do
the trick. In the open air, possibly the reflector can be disguised as
parasol as to stay estethically pleasing to the eye.

Still, 10-20 meters is not a lot. Unless you can prevent horizontal
reflections to the neighbors, you're most likely still going to need
some kind of insulation.

Perhaps some of the sound can be masked with white noise?

wrote:
I've seen a clever idea at a shopping centers that demo CDs by having a
small speaker mounted in the focal point of a carbon fiber parabolic
reflector, pointing down. The public is 'showered' with the sound of a
CD. Several CDs are played in several 'sound showers'. Outside of the
'sound beam' the reduction in sound is quite remarkable.

This is the Museum Tools "Secret Sound" parabolic speaker. It sort of
works but it has a lot of midrange resonances. And of course, it can
have no bass response, or at least no directional bass response for bass
whose wavelength is larger than half the diameter of the parabola.

In your friend's case, setting up a speaker under a reflector might do
the trick. In the open air, possibly the reflector can be disguised as
parasol as to stay estethically pleasing to the eye.

Still, 10-20 meters is not a lot. Unless you can prevent horizontal
reflections to the neighbors, you're most likely still going to need
some kind of insulation.

Perhaps some of the sound can be masked with white noise?

Almost certainly the issue is low-end leakage. If you don't have any
low end, reducing noise transmission is easy. If you don't have any
low end, though, you don't have any dance club either.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 8/2/05 10:24 AM, in article
,
" wrote:

I've seen a clever idea at a shopping centers that demo CDs by having a
small speaker mounted in the focal point of a carbon fiber parabolic
reflector, pointing down. The public is 'showered' with the sound of a
CD. Several CDs are played in several 'sound showers'. Outside of the
'sound beam' the reduction in sound is quite remarkable.

In your friend's case, setting up a speaker under a reflector might do
the trick. In the open air, possibly the reflector can be disguised as
parasol as to stay estethically pleasing to the eye.

In museums they don;t need much bass, a parasol that will focus and redirect
anything below lo midrange is going to be the size of and ressemble,
well,
a big curved wall....



Still, 10-20 meters is not a lot. Unless you can prevent horizontal
reflections to the neighbors, you're most likely still going to need
some kind of insulation.

Perhaps some of the sound can be masked with white noise?

"BobPit" wrote in message
news:1122989043.23580@athnrd02

Is there a way to setup the speakers, maybe buy special
speakers that will create a descent sound only at the
area of the bar, but creating no noise 10-20 meters away,
where the houses are?

Not really practical but it can work - a small speaker at
every table.

BobPit wrote:
High

I have a very difficult situation here.

I have a friend that has a bar outdoors, on the seashore. ight next to it
there are houses. After 12:00 at night he has to turn down the volume in
order not to anoy the neighbours. But then most of the customers will leave
because there is no more fun.

I have looked up and found that he can raise some insulating walls. But
this will destroy the scenery.

Is there a way to setup the speakers, maybe buy special speakers that will
create a descent sound only at the area of the bar, but creating no noise
10-20 meters away, where the houses are?

Thanks
Bob




I'd think that in practise the only solution is going to be to move the speakers
closer to the listeners ears and turn the volume down. That way, the listeners
percieve the same sound level, but the sound level at the houses is reduced.

I know it's not the ideal practical solution, but I suppose the ideal technical
solution here would be for each person at the bar to have headphones!

I wonder if you could modify that scenario to make it more practical? (Maybe
include small speakers at each table?)

Just a thought...

Ben
~~~

BobPit wrote:
High

I have a very difficult situation here.

I have a friend that has a bar outdoors, on the seashore. ight next to it
there are houses. After 12:00 at night he has to turn down the volume in
order not to anoy the neighbours. But then most of the customers will leave
because there is no more fun.

I have looked up and found that he can raise some insulating walls. But
this will destroy the scenery.

Is there a way to setup the speakers, maybe buy special speakers that will
create a descent sound only at the area of the bar, but creating no noise
10-20 meters away, where the houses are?

Thanks
Bob



Theoretically (And I will most likely get flamed for this - Hi by the
way I'm new here..) You can playback the reverse of the sound being
played in the spaeaker facing the "stage" with another speaker at a
distance behind it, thus creating a cancelling intertia (that sounds so
much less star trek in Danish) which should, again in theory I have
never tried this in the open, only in enclosed spaces isolate the sound
at the "stage". Naturally this will work poor with bass which has a
tendency to traverse surfaces like the ground rather well. This problem
can be adressed with a programmable DSP which starts say 90 minutes
before "silence" by reducing the bass responce a little bit every
minute, this way the crowd, especially if they have been drinking, won't
notice it. You can do this with the volume too, but they will notice
that sooner.

As I said, this is pure theory, I don't know if it will work in "the
wild" where there are no reflective surfaces, or rather not a complete
shell of them, and also it won't come cheap

Anyway it might not be entirely impropable.

//J

In article ,
Jan Larsen wrote:
Theoretically (And I will most likely get flamed for this - Hi by the
way I'm new here..) You can playback the reverse of the sound being
played in the spaeaker facing the "stage" with another speaker at a
distance behind it, thus creating a cancelling intertia

This can be made to work reasonably well at high frequencies - assuming
there aren't any reflections. And also that the listening position is
reasonably fixed. However, move the listening position, and the output
from the second speaker *adds* to the main one. So for some neighbours,
the results might be good. For others, it will will be worse. ;-)

--
*It's o.k. to laugh during sexŒ.Œ.just don't point!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

free cover and free drinks for the neighbors may work.

Mark

"BobPit" wrote in message
news:1122989043.23580@athnrd02...
High

I have a very difficult situation here.

I have a friend that has a bar outdoors, on the seashore. ight next to it
there are houses. After 12:00 at night he has to turn down the volume in
order not to anoy the neighbours. But then most of the customers will
leave
because there is no more fun.

I have looked up and found that he can raise some insulating walls. But
this will destroy the scenery.

Is there a way to setup the speakers, maybe buy special speakers that will
create a descent sound only at the area of the bar, but creating no noise
10-20 meters away, where the houses are?


Hmm. Maybe he should close at 1:00 and try selling sandwiches for lunch.

jb

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 11:39:13 +0300, "BobPit" wrote:

I have a very difficult situation here.

I have a friend that has a bar outdoors, on the seashore. ight next to it
there are houses. After 12:00 at night he has to turn down the volume in
order not to anoy the neighbours. But then most of the customers will leave
because there is no more fun.

I have looked up and found that he can raise some insulating walls. But
this will destroy the scenery.

Is there a way to setup the speakers, maybe buy special speakers that will
create a descent sound only at the area of the bar, but creating no noise
10-20 meters away, where the houses are?

The neighbours don't want it quieter after 12.00, they want it OFF!.
And rightly so. I'm surprised he's allowed to be a nuisance at other
times.

Smaller speakers, closer to the listener will go some way towards a
solution. But if the customers want a disco experience with thudding
bass, this won't do.

If it's any consolation, I walk out of any establishment where the
music is too loud for conversation. And have done all my life - it's
not an old man thing :-)

It is not a disco, no dancing. You can talk easily. But the music has to
be loud enough to keep the customers. Otherwise they leave.

Bob

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 16:52:15 +0300, "BobPit" wrote:

It is not a disco, no dancing. You can talk easily. But the music has to
be loud enough to keep the customers. Otherwise they leave.

Amazing! My favourite time at my watering-hole is after hours when
the barman can be persuaded to turn off the music. Sometimes he'll
even turn off the fans, if no anti-social ******* is smoking. The
silence is magic!

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 11:39:13 +0300, BobPit wrote:

I have a friend that has a bar outdoors, on the seashore. ight next to it
there are houses. After 12:00 at night he has to turn down the volume in
order not to anoy the neighbours. But then most of the customers will leave
because there is no more fun.

A good solution would be to get the guitarists to turn their amps down
below 11 and just use the PA for vocals and a little on the kick/snare
for definition. This setup has worked for me many a time in a beer garden
type situation.

--
Jafar Calley
Producer - http://moonlife-records.com
--------------------------------------
See the latest Mars and Saturn images
http://fatcat.homelinux.org

i agree with another poster: the way to reduce the overall sound level
is to have small loudspekers (with poor bass response) and to put them
as close as possible to the audience so they don't need to be loud.

Is this in the UK? If this is a commercial bar then surely the terms
of his licence must take account of the houses nearby. If the sound is
audible in the houses and his licence says it must not be then that's a
matter for the council environmental health dept.


Robert

Robert wrote:

i agree with another poster: the way to reduce the overall sound level
is to have small loudspekers (with poor bass response) and to put them
as close as possible to the audience so they don't need to be loud.

This is something that jukebox manufacturers figured out in the 1950s,
and it works well. But it is considered very retro today. Then again,
maybe that's in.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Robert wrote:


Is this in the UK?

Outdoors on the sea shore at midnight in the British climate? I doubt
if it would be worth his while for the few days a year when this is
possible.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On 4 Aug 2005 01:44:16 -0700, "Robert" wrote:


Is this in the UK?

Don't be silly! It's an outdoor bar on the shore. He'd only open 5
days a year on average.

Laurence Payne wrote:
On 4 Aug 2005 01:44:16 -0700, "Robert" wrote:


Is this in the UK?

Don't be silly! It's an outdoor bar on the shore. He'd only open 5
days a year on average.

In that case, just pay the neighbors to take a vacation during those
five days. No problem.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Robert" wrote in message
ups.com...

Is this in the UK? If this is a commercial bar then surely the terms
of his licence must take account of the houses nearby. If the sound is
audible in the houses and his licence says it must not be then that's a
matter for the council environmental health dept.

The pub near me ignored complaints from neighbours about late-night noise
from their weekly discos. They then ignored the notices from the council.

They were then taken to court, charged with causing a noise nusiance on
eight separate occasions, and were fined £1000 for each occasion.

They don't have discos any more ...

Tim

The bar is in on island of North Greece.

Bob

"BobPit" wrote ...
It is not a disco, no dancing. You can talk easily. But the music
has to be loud enough to keep the customers. Otherwise they leave.

Speaker on each table. Ideally wireless and rechargable batteries.
You could even combine with mood lighting, etc.

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 20:17:31 -0700, "Richard Crowley"
wrote:

"BobPit" wrote ...
It is not a disco, no dancing. You can talk easily. But the music
has to be loud enough to keep the customers. Otherwise they leave.

Speaker on each table. Ideally wireless and rechargable batteries.

And bolted to the table with prison screws.


You could even combine with mood lighting, etc.

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 20:17:31 -0700, "Richard Crowley"
wrote:

Speaker on each table. Ideally wireless and rechargable batteries.
You could even combine with mood lighting, etc.

That's IDEAL? :-)

"Laurence Payne" wrote ...
"Richard Crowley" wrote:
Speaker on each table. Ideally wireless and rechargable batteries.
You could even combine with mood lighting, etc.

That's IDEAL? :-)

It is a possible solution for the severe constraints of
the situation.

On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 10:49:36 -0700, "Richard Crowley"
wrote:

Speaker on each table. Ideally wireless and rechargable batteries.
You could even combine with mood lighting, etc.

That's IDEAL? :-)

It is a possible solution for the severe constraints of
the situation.

Oh. THAT'S what "ideal" means :-)

"Laurence Payne" wrote ...
"Richard Crowley" wrote:

Speaker on each table. Ideally wireless and rechargable batteries.
You could even combine with mood lighting, etc.

That's IDEAL? :-)

It is a possible solution for the severe constraints of
the situation.

Oh. THAT'S what "ideal" means :-)

Only the people on the scene can make the final determiniaton
of "ideal". To think that people in a global newsgroup who have
never seen the situation could do divine "ideal" is just silly.
But then you knew that already.

On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 19:14:20 -0700, "Richard Crowley"
wrote:

Only the people on the scene can make the final determiniaton
of "ideal". To think that people in a global newsgroup who have
never seen the situation could do divine "ideal" is just silly.
But then you knew that already.

Yes, I was questioning YOUR use of the word, if you remember :-)

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 19:14:20 -0700, "Richard Crowley"
wrote:

Only the people on the scene can make the final determiniaton
of "ideal". To think that people in a global newsgroup who have
never seen the situation could do divine "ideal" is just silly.
But then you knew that already.

Yes, I was questioning YOUR use of the word, if you remember :-)

I used "ideal" only with reference to "wireless" because I
was assuming typical portable/movable tables where a wired
solution sounds like a nightmare.

BobPit wrote:
It is not a disco, no dancing. You can talk easily. But the music has to
be loud enough to keep the customers. Otherwise they leave.

Bob


Make the floor mechnically vibrate in step with the bass. Hydrallic ram?
Gives the impression that the music is really loud??? Also near field
speakers, lots of them. Whack a compressor in-circuit so it sounds loud,
and paint speakers red so it looks like it. Flame effects from the backs
of the speakers might help?

--
Adrian C