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#1
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
I am very interested to hear about people's experiences with both formats. Please keep the threads limited to individual responses (no debates as this isn't and should have nothing to do with an analysis of the two formats). This is purely subjective and extremely appreciated by me for those that complete the following two questions: 1) When listening to music, what format do you listen to more often, every time, etc.? 2) What are the TWO primary differences you hear between the two (If you do not hear any or the differences are very subtle, please say so)? Usually the differences are more an aspect of the mastering than the medium but in the case of my personal comparisons of what I believe to be the best sounding recordings by labels that are not likely to screw up the mastering on either medium I find the LPs to be preferable to the CDs. They sound richer,warmer, more complex and more tangable in the same ways that live music sounds richer, warmer, more complex and more tangable than playback. So the LP brings more of the intrinsic beauty I hear in live music. |
#2
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
I am very interested to hear about people's experiences with both formats. Please keep the threads limited to individual responses (no debates as this isn't and should have nothing to do with an analysis of the two formats). This is purely subjective and extremely appreciated by me for those that complete the following two questions: 1) When listening to music, what format do you listen to more often, every time, etc.? 2) What are the TWO primary differences you hear between the two (If you do not hear any or the differences are very subtle, please say so)? I forgot to mention i listen to LPs far more often than CDs. Never did the math to figure out the ratios. The advantage I hear with CDs is no surface noise and no effects that can be heard on defective records. |
#3
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
"S888Wheel" wrote in message
Usually the differences are more an aspect of the mastering than the medium but in the case of my personal comparisons of what I believe to be the best sounding recordings by labels that are not likely to screw up the mastering on either medium I find the LPs to be preferable to the CDs. They sound richer,warmer, more complex and more tangable in the same ways that live music sounds richer, warmer, more complex and more tangable than playback. So the LP brings more of the intrinsic beauty I hear in live music. Typical of people who have balanced their systems to favor LPs. |
#4
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
"Mike" wrote in message
om I am very interested to hear about people's experiences with both formats. Please keep the threads limited to individual responses (no debates as this isn't and should have nothing to do with an analysis of the two formats). This is purely subjective and extremely appreciated by me for those that complete the following two questions: 1) When listening to music, what format do you listen to more often, every time, etc.? CDs and derivatives (i.e., .wav files, MP3s, etc.) including CDs made from live performances recorded by myselves and friends, and CD's made from LPs that were transcribed and processed digitally to remove their grosser audible shortcomings. 2) What are the TWO primary differences you hear between the two (If you do not hear any or the differences are very subtle, please say so)? CDs sound like music and LPs sound like either concentrated or dilute crap. Sure, I've balanced my systems to sound best with CDs, but that's only because I got so freakin' tired of about 30 years of forced listening to the egregious noise and distortion inherent in LP playback. LP playback is only tolerable to me with additional digital post-processing such as tic and pop removal, as well as timbre adjustments and dynamics correction. |
#5
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
Arny Krueger wrote:
"S888Wheel" wrote in message Usually the differences are more an aspect of the mastering than the medium but in the case of my personal comparisons of what I believe to be the best sounding recordings by labels that are not likely to screw up the mastering on either medium I find the LPs to be preferable to the CDs. They sound richer,warmer, more complex and more tangable in the same ways that live music sounds richer, warmer, more complex and more tangable than playback. So the LP brings more of the intrinsic beauty I hear in live music. Typical of people who have balanced their systems to favor LPs. Typical OSAF without supportive documentation from a proven anti-vinyl poster. (Has repeated same derogatory rant in response to 2 posters prefering vinyl). Bruce J. Richman |
#6
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basicsurvey/poll
egregious noise and distortion inherent in LP playback. LP playback is only tolerable to me with additional digital post-processing such as tic and pop removal, as well as timbre adjustments and dynamics correction. Do you take care of your records, and have a turntable that holds speed? If so, the only problem here should be dynamics... but unless your room is dead quiet even that shouldn't be a problem. I'd take the original dynamic range of an LP over listening to music though some sort of volume expander. My biggest issue with LPs is distortion caused by over modulation, and tracing distortion (I think that's what it's called, when it sounds worse near the centre of the disc?) |
#7
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
Krueger tries to perpetuate his deceptive deletion of posts made by me:
"Bruce J. Richman" wrote in message Krueger decides, as his obnoxious custom, to generate one of his usual idiotic personal attacks: "Bruce J. Richman" wrote in message A very good question. Especially so, given the fact that neither poster reporting a preference for vinyl thus far, has said anything about how their system is "balanced" (a term not defined btw by the poster making this unsupported claim). Obviously Richman, you can't read. I guess that Ideologically-Induced Reading Comprehension Syndrome (IIRCS) have returned to RAO despite the apparent exit of Singh. Your stupidity has once again been demonstrtated, Krueger. Your lies and deceptions have been demonstrated once again, Richman. A lie, Krueger. I reposted, without deletion, your unprovoked personal attack against Mr. Holubitsky, my response to it, and of course your irrelevant response in which you lied about what I said. I caught you in a big mistake, but you deleted discussion of it and changed the topic to something else. Unfortunately for your lying self, the Google record demonstrates otherwise. You made unsupported claims about "balanced" systems of those who prefer vinyl - which was the original topic - not the topic to which you tried to deceptively change it. You just can't help yourseklf from lying again, Krueger. This surprises nobody, of course, except you and your pathetically small group of endorsers such as Dim Tim Brown and McKelvy. Please feel free to keep lying and deleting and deceptively editing my posts and those of others. By so doing, you simply add to the ever-increasing number of people who despise you on RAO. LOL! Since you seem to have problems actually quoting the post that you are pretending to respond to, here it is again: Arny Krueger" wrote in message "Bruce J. Richman" wrote in message A very good question. Especially so, given the fact that neither poster reporting a preference for vinyl thus far, has said anything about how their system is "balanced" (a term not defined btw by the poster making this unsupported claim). Obviously Richman, you can't read. I guess that Ideologically-Induced Reading Comprehension Syndrome (IIRCS) have returned to RAO despite the apparent exit of Singh. Richman, just to save you the trouble of looking around for your brain: "S888Wheel" wrote in message "I find the LPs to be preferable to the CDs. They sound richer,warmer, more complex and more tangable in the same ways that live music sounds richer, warmer, more complex and more tangable than playback. So the LP brings more of the intrinsic beauty I hear in live music." Richman, what's unclear about "I find the LPs to be preferable to the CDs."? Bruce J. Richman |
#8
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
"Max Holubitsky" wrote in message
egregious noise and distortion inherent in LP playback. LP playback is only tolerable to me with additional digital post-processing such as tic and pop removal, as well as timbre adjustments and dynamics correction. Do you take care of your records, Such few as I have. Right now my interest in LPs is digitizing them, for others. My comments mostly relate to the days when vinyl was all we had, back through the early 80's. and have a turntable that holds speed? Not only does my Rega hold speed (since the new belt) but it's the right speed. It started out a tad fast and IME a lot of turntables run fast. My previous turntable (from the early 80s) was a TD-125 with a SME 3009-II arm. It had a strobe that you could easily monitor while playing. I've found that a number of MP3's I've downloaded that were made by vinyl enthusiasts are also running fast enough to create an audible effect. Perhaps this is where some of the *excitement* comes from. If so, the only problem here should be dynamics... but unless your room is dead quiet even that shouldn't be a problem. My living room is very quiet when the windows are shut. I'd take the original dynamic range of an LP over listening to music though some sort of volume expander. True when the LPs aren't compressed, and not all of them seem to be compressed. My biggest issue with LPs is distortion caused by over modulation, and tracing distortion (I think that's what it's called, when it sounds worse near the centre of the disc?) That, too. Since I frequently make my own CDs from live performances I recorded, I know exactly what the live/mix/CD playback situation is. |
#9
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
"Mike" wrote in message om... I am very interested to hear about people's experiences with both formats. Please keep the threads limited to individual responses (no debates as this isn't and should have nothing to do with an analysis of the two formats). This is purely subjective and extremely appreciated by me for those that complete the following two questions: 1) When listening to music, what format do you listen to more often, every time, etc.? 2) What are the TWO primary differences you hear between the two (If you do not hear any or the differences are very subtle, please say so)? I listen to CDs almost exclusively. However, late at night, I listen to PBS broadcasts of alternative music, and jazz on WRTI, Philadelphia's excellent jazz station. Subjectively: The best CDs are better than the best vinyl. The worst CDs are worse than the worst vinyl. Apparently, CDs are more variable. CDs have better frequency response, lower distortion, greater dynamic range, and a complete absence of wow, flutter, and rumble. In spite of all this, poorly mastered CDs can provide a subjectively bad listening experience. Before 1990, this was complicated by A/D equipment which was not fully evolved. Now days, it can still result from negligence, or in the case of popular titles, deliberate intent. |
#10
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
Deleting the usual Richman smoke and mirrors:
Arny Krueger" wrote in message "Bruce J. Richman" wrote in message A very good question. Especially so, given the fact that neither poster reporting a preference for vinyl thus far, has said anything about how their system is "balanced" (a term not defined btw by the poster making this unsupported claim). Obviously Richman, you can't read. I guess that Ideologically-Induced Reading Comprehension Syndrome (IIRCS) have returned to RAO despite the apparent exit of Singh. Richman, just to save you the trouble of looking around for your brain: "S888Wheel" wrote in message "I find the LPs to be preferable to the CDs. They sound richer,warmer, more complex and more tangable in the same ways that live music sounds richer, warmer, more complex and more tangable than playback. So the LP brings more of the intrinsic beauty I hear in live music." Richman, what's unclear about "I find the LPs to be preferable to the CDs."? Richman, why not just answer the question instead of spending so much time and effort to talk around it? |
#11
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
Krueger continues to delete relevant content and lie;
Deletion of pathetic attempts by Krueger to avoid taking responsibility for unprovoked personal attack and deliberate misrepresentation of what I wrote No point in repeating the lies of this habitual anti-vinyl flamer and poster of unprovoked personal attacks. The Google record clearly indicates Krueger's lies, deceptive editing, name-calling and unprovoked personal attack against me. Bruce J. Richman |
#12
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 21:55:07 GMT, MiNE 109
wrote: I tried to balance my system for Billy Joel, but now it would rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. And I suppose Arnii didn't start the fire. Were it not for new-for-old insurance policies, what kind of hi-fi would Arnii presently own? -- (fade in) Thine (fade out) |
#13
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 18:12:47 -0400, George M. Middius
wrote: I tried to balance my system for Billy Joel, but now it would rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. Does that mean Krooger is going to live to a rotten old age? Hopefully someone's gun will lie to him. -- (black) Thine ( ( ( (white/radiance) |
#14
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
Thine Deville wrote:
On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 18:12:47 -0400, George M. Middius wrote: I tried to balance my system for Billy Joel, but now it would rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. Does that mean Krooger is going to live to a rotten old age? Hopefully someone's gun will lie to him. -- (black) Thine ( ( ( (white/radiance) I always figured his favorite "singer" woulds be Pinocchio. (or for those SNL fans in the US, Tommy Flanagan). Bruce J. Richman |
#15
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... CDs and derivatives (i.e., .wav files, MP3s, etc.) including CDs made from live performances recorded by myselves So the truth finally came out. No more guessing. Cheers, MvB |
#16
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
"Bruce J. Richman" wrote in message A very good question. Especially so, given the fact that neither poster reporting a preference for vinyl thus far, has said anything about how their system is "balanced" (a term not defined btw by the poster making this unsupported claim). Obviously Richman, you can't read. I guess that Ideologically-Induced Reading Comprehension Syndrome (IIRCS) have returned to RAO despite the apparent exit of Singh. Richman, just to save you the trouble of looking around for your brain: "S888Wheel" wrote in message "I find the LPs to be preferable to the CDs. They sound richer,warmer, more complex and more tangable in the same ways that live music sounds richer, warmer, more complex and more tangable than playback. So the LP brings more of the intrinsic beauty I hear in live music." Richman, what's unclear about "I find the LPs to be preferable to the CDs."? |
#17
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
In article t,
Thine Deville wrote: On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 21:55:07 GMT, MiNE 109 wrote: I tried to balance my system for Billy Joel, but now it would rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. And I suppose Arnii didn't start the fire. Were it not for new-for-old insurance policies, what kind of hi-fi would Arnii presently own? He'd get something in the back, in the discount rack, like another can of beans. Stephen |
#18
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
MiNE 109 said: I tried to balance my system for Billy Joel, but now it would rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. Does that mean Krooger is going to live to a rotten old age? Yes. I assume you, like my telephone, are lying. |
#19
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The lying tailpipe
Arniis Kroofeceses has struck again! performances recorded by myselves In that fractured plane of existence, I'll bet you each hear a different lie from each software application. Must be terribly uplifting. |
#20
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
In article ,
George M. Middius wrote: MiNE 109 said: I tried to balance my system for Billy Joel, but now it would rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. Does that mean Krooger is going to live to a rotten old age? Yes. I assume you, like my telephone, are lying. Honesty is such a lonely word Stephen |
#21
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
Stephen wrote:
In article , George M. Middius wrote: MiNE 109 said: I tried to balance my system for Billy Joel, but now it would rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints. Does that mean Krooger is going to live to a rotten old age? Yes. Stephen It looks like he's "been there, done that" .........LOTS! Bruce J. Richman |
#22
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 17:13:08 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: Richman, why not just answer the question instead of spending so much time and effort to talk around it? Why don't you just answer the original question or shut the **** up, you incomprehensible son of a bitch? -- Jacob Kramer |
#23
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
I said
Usually the differences are more an aspect of the mastering than the medium but in the case of my personal comparisons of what I believe to be the best sounding recordings by labels that are not likely to screw up the mastering on either medium I find the LPs to be preferable to the CDs. They sound richer,warmer, more complex and more tangable in the same ways that live music sounds richer, warmer, more complex and more tangable than playback. So the LP brings more of the intrinsic beauty I hear in live music. Arny said Typical of people who have balanced their systems to favor LPs. Please cite an example of such a typical system balanced to favor LPs and explain how such a system would favor LPs. |
#24
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The lying tailpipe
On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 19:32:07 -0400, George M. Middius
wrote: Arniis Kroofeceses has struck again! performances recorded by myselves In that fractured plane of existence, I'll bet you each hear a different lie from each software application. Must be terribly uplifting. Ooops! Coffee spewage. LOL! -- Thine |
#25
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
"S888Wheel" wrote in message
I said Usually the differences are more an aspect of the mastering than the medium but in the case of my personal comparisons of what I believe to be the best sounding recordings by labels that are not likely to screw up the mastering on either medium I find the LPs to be preferable to the CDs. They sound richer,warmer, more complex and more tangable in the same ways that live music sounds richer, warmer, more complex and more tangable than playback. So the LP brings more of the intrinsic beauty I hear in live music. Arny said Typical of people who have balanced their systems to favor LPs. Please cite an example of such a typical system balanced to favor LPs and explain how such a system would favor LPs. Been there, done that. |
#26
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
I said
aol.com I said Usually the differences are more an aspect of the mastering than the medium but in the case of my personal comparisons of what I believe to be the best sounding recordings by labels that are not likely to screw up the mastering on either medium I find the LPs to be medium I find the LPs to be preferable to the CDs. They sound richer,warmer, more complex and more tangable in the same ways that live music sounds richer, warmer, more complex and more tangable than playback. So the LP brings more of the intrinsic beauty I hear in live music. Arny said Typical of people who have balanced their systems to favor LPs. I said Please cite an example of such a typical system balanced to favor LPs and explain how such a system would favor LPs. Arny said Been there, done that. Bull****. |
#27
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ...
"Mike" wrote in message om CDs sound like music and LPs sound like either concentrated or dilute crap. Your system is broken. Tim |
#28
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
"Mike" wrote in message om...
1) When listening to music, what format do you listen to more often, every time, etc.? 25% vinyl 75% cd 2) What are the TWO primary differences you hear between the two (If you do not hear any or the differences are very subtle, please say so)? Aside from occasional surface noise, I tend to the view that the original recording along with the mastering are the biggest factors influencing sound quality. Provided you have a competent player, which in the case of LP means something quite expensive sadly. However, the best sound I've heard is from LP. Defining "best" in terms of the ability to create an illusion of a live performance. I don't buy many LPs these days although I have numerous instances of the same recording on both formats. I repurchased items mainly for the convenience of CD. Thus, my comments mostly apply to older recordings. I do find the sound degrades towards the inner groove of an LP - there are pretty obvious physical reasons for this. Reserving judgment on SACD, DVDA. Tim |
#29
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
"Tim Anderson" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "Mike" wrote in message om CDs sound like music and LPs sound like either concentrated or dilute crap. Your system is broken. Prove it. |
#30
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
"Tim Anderson" wrote in message
However, the best sound I've heard is from LP. Defining "best" in terms of the ability to create an illusion of a live performance. Either your system is broke, you're deaf, or you haven't got a clue what a live performance of acoustical instruments and unamplified singers sounds like. |
#31
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 08:43:56 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: CDs sound like music and LPs sound like either concentrated or dilute crap. Your system is broken. Prove it. You removed the pictures. -- Thine |
#32
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ...
"Tim Anderson" wrote in message However, the best sound I've heard is from LP. Defining "best" in terms of the ability to create an illusion of a live performance. Either your system is broke, you're deaf, or you haven't got a clue what a live performance of acoustical instruments and unamplified singers sounds like. You missed (d) None of the above. Tim |
#33
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
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#34
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
"Tim Anderson" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "Tim Anderson" wrote in message CDs sound like music and LPs sound like either concentrated or dilute crap. Your system is broken. Prove it. 1) To most people, LPs played on a good system do not sound as you describe. Sure they do. 99.5% of everybody has stopped buying records because they sounded like crap. That's why LP market share is down to about 0.5%, even including "turntablists" whose use of LPs is irrelevant to high fidelity. You can say that people scrapped LPs because of convenience, but even convenience nets out to be a sound quality discussion. Most of the inconvenience of playing LPs related to attempting to preserve their sound quality. 2) LPs played on your system sound as you describe (by your account) So do records played on many other systems that I've listened to. For example 20 years ago 100% of everybody in my audio club (about 80 members) had vinyl and played little but. Today I can't find even one person who listens to LPs regularly, except by means of CD-R proxies and/or for the purpose of making CD-R proxies. 3) Ergo, your system is not good, i.e.. broken. Ergo, I have more acute hearing than you do, and so do the majority of all music lovers, and the members of my audio club. Some people listen to crap and hear beautiful music and I guess more power to them. However, most people, even most audiophiles listen to LPs and hear crap and have abandoned LPs never to return. Why there are so many LP bigots on RAO seems to be very atypical based on the people I know and meet in real life. Even the RAO vinyl bigots are now admitting that they listen to LPs half or less of the time. My only question is what took them so long? |
#35
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
"Tim Anderson" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "Tim Anderson" wrote in message However, the best sound I've heard is from LP. Defining "best" in terms of the ability to create an illusion of a live performance. Either your system is broke, you're deaf, or you haven't got a clue what a live performance of acoustical instruments and unamplified singers sounds like. You missed (d) None of the above. Prove it, and do a better job than the hack that you posted on that other subthread. |
#36
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 08:45:18 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: "Tim Anderson" wrote in message However, the best sound I've heard is from LP. Defining "best" in terms of the ability to create an illusion of a live performance. Either your system is broke, you're deaf, or you haven't got a clue what a live performance of acoustical instruments and unamplified singers sounds like. Prove it! guffaw |
#37
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 09:55:03 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: "Tim Anderson" wrote in message "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "Tim Anderson" wrote in message However, the best sound I've heard is from LP. Defining "best" in terms of the ability to create an illusion of a live performance. Either your system is broke, you're deaf, or you haven't got a clue what a live performance of acoustical instruments and unamplified singers sounds like. You missed (d) None of the above. Prove it, and do a better job than the hack that you posted on that other subthread. He did, because you didn't write (d) None of the above. You lose. Again. |
#38
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ...
You missed (d) None of the above. Prove it, and do a better job than the hack that you posted on that other subthread. As I said, you missed it. The newsgroup is my witness. Tim |
#39
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 12:32:58 -0400, George M. Middius
wrote: Tim Anderson said to ****-for-Brains: You missed (d) None of the above. Prove it, and do a better job than the hack that you posted on that other subthread. As I said, you missed it. The newsgroup is my witness. Those in the group who can stand to look at that sack of ****, anyway. Without turning into a pillar of salt you mean... |
#40
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People that have or do listen to both Vinyl and Cd: Basic survey/poll
"Tim Anderson" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... You missed (d) None of the above. Prove it, and do a better job than the hack that you posted on that other subthread. As I said, you missed it. The newsgroup is my witness. Lie on, dude. |
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