As one looks down a bit further in this newsgroup, one will find a
inordinate amount of bitterness toward a magazine, its purpose and
it editor....but, not much about "Audio"...wonder why? After all, this
is a hobby...where did all the bitter people come from? Must they
think in alignment with some non-achiever...who, has for a decade
filled this newsgroup with a form of no-think fodder? Who rejects
the very mental processes that we have been given to enjoy music
and the whole audio process? In doing so, he has not provided a
viable substitute for process that has evolved over millions of years
and provided us all with musical enjoyment. No one really thought
anyone would..this is a bone of contention here.

I accept these mental processes as viable and I accept the fact that
one audio speaker can be classified by my mental processes as
a bit superior to another...period!! Ten others in the room might
not agree with me...so be it! I accept that...such is life! I do not
try to pull an old ploy of rejecting the mental process and substitute
an interesting excercise in attempting to apply numbers to the
process and imply that this will be superior to all listeners
opinion...and in the process, reject these time proven factors.

In the complexity of the mental process, certain components will
"seem better" to you...that process is embroiled in one's background
in listening to music...it will vary due to complex situations in the
"electro-chemical makeup of the listening processes and the mental
state at that given moment. This varies with each individual and is
therefore not easily understood! This is the "Final Frontier"...one
will not have audio contentment for any length of time without facing
it!

The point here is that if one really wishes to make an audio
opinion on a set of speakers...do take them to your area where
you listen most of the time. Decide there...make your opinon
there...you decide! Not any outsider...particularly those that
cannot accept any variability...or have difficulty in applying
shadings to the audio platform that are important to you...
..use your audio value system! No one else should decide.
Then, if your decide to get a new system in 6 months...again,
so be it! Stereophile can be of some help here as well as
various other magazines. But, do not be swayed by a group
of hardline types that do not grasp what was just stated.
To accept this freedom to select what you decide is best
for you, strikes at the heart of this hardliner...do not listen to the
"meters" crowd. Be a bit wary of this mindset in your midst...make up
you own mind! This would apply to cables if you're facing that
issue.

I suspect that this Newsgroup has a hardcore cadre that are basically
bitter and enjoy the meat of the attack... somewhere..audio got lost.
Pity! A form of the media that merely lays out the options is no
threat to me...I find it interesting and educational...I can merely
read it or reject it and move along! The reader must make this simple
decision...no one is attacking your mindset unless you are a follower
of a rigidness portrayed by many in this Group for years. Do make up
your own mind, beware of those that suggest "simplistic" approaches to
a rather complex audio hobby! Beware of the "agenda" types here on
this group! Ignore them..decide for yourself! Their minds are already
made up..ignore this crowd like the plague!

We are fortunate to have Stereophile to browse through...
As an ole-timer in this audio hobby, I remember when this
publication was a rag-tag "underground" publication that as
young audiophiles we used to hold on to each publication
until it was truly "rag-tag"...we did this because these
underground publications talked about the "real" audio
world that we knew...about superior speakers, differences
in certain speaker wires...things we had already tried and
found out there were differences out there...the regular
publications would never mention these differences..never,
but the "underground" crowd would... to us this was the
real world. Thank goodness for this insight these people
had.

I watched the current Stereophile Editor carry on this underground
publication with aplomb...then I saw him take another
step that no other underground ever really acheived...
I saw Stereophile make that move from a rag-tag
Underground publication to a slick regular sized publication
with many reviewers with strong credentials and with
many insightful departments such as the view of
international events with vendors from Europe and
the UK. New insights into upcoming products..a source
not found elsewhere. All of this due to the direction of
the current Editor...Many ole-timers out here have noted
this..having noted the previous condition of the highly
respected "undergrounds" with their limited coverage.
One has to see the "overall" picture to understand
and grasp the significance of all this.

I've also watched a new, bitter audiophile evolve and I
saw the ranks of this hobby decrease significantly..I've
watched their sense of history in the audio realm simply
dissolve. With this, I suspect their "sense of history" overall
has suffered also. Many technical events have contributed
to all this. But, thats another long subject. Folks, this is a
hobby...not a religious subject...try to grasp this, attack
is not the byword...enjoy the music! Back to basics, Folk!


Leonard...

lcw999 (;-) wrote:

snipped

We are fortunate to have Stereophile to browse through...


I watched the current Stereophile Editor carry on this underground
publication with aplomb...then I saw him take another
step that no other underground ever really acheived...
I saw Stereophile make that move from a rag-tag
Underground publication to a slick regular sized publication

All of this due to the direction of
the current Editor...


Leonard...


"Leonard", eh? Was your aboriginal name "Swallows-for-Atkinson"?

"lcw999" wrote in message
news



As one looks down a bit further in this newsgroup, one will find a
inordinate amount of bitterness toward a magazine, its purpose and
it editor....but, not much about "Audio"...wonder why? After all, this
is a hobby...where did all the bitter people come from?

Well spoken, Leonard. Unfortunately, the usenet newsgroups are largely like
that, except for a few with very technical interests. For tightly organized
newsgroups, look at rec.arts.movies.production.sound, or
alt.energy.homepower. These newsgroups cater only to technical interest.

The peculiar thing about rec.audio.opinion is that it is populated by
aesthetes and engineers. It would appear that the extreme aesthete is not a
technical person, while the engineer is not an extreme aesthete. This sets
the stage. The combustible material is the desire of many individuals to be
either arbiters or authorities. The authorities desire to be looked to as
sources of universal knowledge. For knowledge to be universal, it must be
objectifiable, which leaves out subjective experience.Arbiters seem to be
concerned with the newgroup as an organic whole, and try to influence
behavior using methods that range from fine to brutal.

The third group are the vandals. They have no message. Their trade is
meaningless hatred and mayhem.

While I share your sentiment, this newsgroup, like many others, is a sample
of society without government. Thankfully, the only weapons are words. Think
"Lord of the Flies", as a kind of de-evolution from mankind's current rule
of law.

AOL has dropped newsgroup coverage because of declining interest.
Apparently, many individuals, perhaps yourself, are disturbed that r.a.o.
has become a place of what psychologists call "acting out." Individuals who
can post anonymously are freed from the stigma of disapprobation, one of the
last social controls on usenet. Even among individuals who post under their
own names, some are simply oblivious to how they come off.

I now participate in several listservers on various topics. Members of these
lists participate for informational interchange. Occasional personal
affronts are nipped in the bud. However, this may not be the model for
r.a.o., which at its best is a forum for free interplay between artistic and
technical interests.

Unfortunately, some of the people you read here have deep connections to the
negativity of their posts. The magazine is just a scapegoat. It is not a
trivial thing for them to become self-aware on the level of adherence to
civilized behavior. I'm afraid that usenet is in many ways a failed form of
the global village.

Regards,
Bob Morein

Robert Morein said:

The peculiar thing about rec.audio.opinion is that it is populated by
aesthetes and engineers. It would appear that the extreme aesthete is not a
technical person, while the engineer is not an extreme aesthete.

Yada yada yada. The real divide, in audio as in many other groups, is the
class barrier. On RAO, we're stuck with the 'borgs, who are twisted with
envy and various mental infirmities. All their nattering about "tests" and
"perceptions" is a smokescreen. You can see where Their blood really runs
hot, just as Leonard noted -- Stereophile. For Them, the magazine is the
symbol of their failures in life.

George Magpie Middius crowed:





The real divide, in audio as in many other groups, is the
class barrier. On RAO, we're stuck with the 'borgs, who are twisted with
envy and various mental infirmities. All their nattering about "tests" and
"perceptions" is a smokescreen. You can see where Their blood really runs
hot, just as Leonard noted -- Stereophile. For Them, the magazine is the
symbol of their failures in life.
Krooborg! Krooborg! Class envy!! Class envy!!


How often do we need to change the paper in the bottom of the cage?

lcw999 wrote:
As one looks down a bit further in this newsgroup, one
will find a
inordinate amount of bitterness toward a magazine, its
purpose and
it editor....but, not much about "Audio"...wonder why?

Because the magazine has a lot what many people find to be
scam content.

After all, this is a hobby...where did all the bitter
people come from?

Once you see that the Stereophile's figurative emporer often
has no clothes, its fun to take hits on it.

Must
they think in alignment with some non-achiever...who,
has for a
decade filled this newsgroup with a form of no-think
fodder?

That would be of course, George Middius and his happy band
of nincumpoops.

Who
rejects the very mental processes that we have been
given to enjoy
music and the whole audio process?

Here's a challenge for you LCW. Find George Middius and his
happy band of nincumpoops actually posting about audio
process. In fact their posts are nearly 100% personal
attacks.

In doing so, he has not
provided a viable substitute for process that has
evolved over
millions of years and provided us all with musical
enjoyment.

True, there aren't a lot of insights about audio that can be
dervied from intentional misspellings of other people's
names, effeminate nicknames, and full frontal attacks on
other people's political and religious views. But that is
what Goerge and his crew inflict on this place day after
day.

No one really thought anyone would..this is a bone of
contention here.

You obviously have a lack of historical and contextual
perspective, LCW.

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 21:03:20 -0400, Robert Morein wrote:


"lcw999" wrote in message
news



As one looks down a bit further in this newsgroup, one will find a
inordinate amount of bitterness toward a magazine, its purpose and
it editor....but, not much about "Audio"...wonder why? After all, this
is a hobby...where did all the bitter people come from?

Well spoken, Leonard. Unfortunately, the usenet newsgroups are largely like
that, except for a few with very technical interests. For tightly organized
newsgroups, look at rec.arts.movies.production.sound, or
alt.energy.homepower. These newsgroups cater only to technical interest.

The peculiar thing about rec.audio.opinion is that it is populated by
aesthetes and engineers. It would appear that the extreme aesthete is not a
technical person, while the engineer is not an extreme aesthete. This sets
the stage. The combustible material is the desire of many individuals to be
either arbiters or authorities. The authorities desire to be looked to as
sources of universal knowledge. For knowledge to be universal, it must be
objectifiable, which leaves out subjective experience.Arbiters seem to be
concerned with the newgroup as an organic whole, and try to influence
behavior using methods that range from fine to brutal.

The third group are the vandals. They have no message. Their trade is
meaningless hatred and mayhem.

While I share your sentiment, this newsgroup, like many others, is a sample
of society without government. Thankfully, the only weapons are words. Think
"Lord of the Flies", as a kind of de-evolution from mankind's current rule
of law.

AOL has dropped newsgroup coverage because of declining interest.
Apparently, many individuals, perhaps yourself, are disturbed that r.a.o.
has become a place of what psychologists call "acting out." Individuals who
can post anonymously are freed from the stigma of disapprobation, one of the
last social controls on usenet. Even among individuals who post under their
own names, some are simply oblivious to how they come off.

I now participate in several listservers on various topics. Members of these
lists participate for informational interchange. Occasional personal
affronts are nipped in the bud. However, this may not be the model for
r.a.o., which at its best is a forum for free interplay between artistic and
technical interests.

Unfortunately, some of the people you read here have deep connections to the
negativity of their posts. The magazine is just a scapegoat. It is not a
trivial thing for them to become self-aware on the level of adherence to
civilized behavior. I'm afraid that usenet is in many ways a failed form of
the global village.

Regards,
Bob Morein


Well stated Bob... an excellent view of the malady that many
newsgroups are victims of. Good insight into some issues
we are all suffering from...a rare post on this newsgroup.

Leonard...