Hello,
I'm putting together a little bit at a time, my hi fi system. I would
like to hear from any one on the soundness of my choices, and if I'm
heading in the right direction.
OK here goes:
VPI scout,Dynavector 10x
Acoustech PH-1 (set for max gain so I wont use a line preamp -Just a
pot)
Pass Labs Aleph 5
Quad ESL 57
Kimber 4TC
Kimber PBJ
Some other options I have been considering a AES PH-1, AES AE-3,
AES Sixpacs- Other components the same.
Now-- What kind of sound will I expect from this little system? Will
the tube system have more depth?
I've been using tubes exclusivly for a long time and wonder whats
going to happen when I go to the Acoustech/Aleph 5 combination?

Dennis Selwa

"Dennis Selwa" wrote in message
om
Hello,
I'm putting together a little bit at a time, my hi fi system. I would
like to hear from any one on the soundness of my choices, and if I'm
heading in the right direction.
OK here goes:
VPI scout,Dynavector 10x
Acoustech PH-1 (set for max gain so I wont use a line preamp -Just a
pot)
Pass Labs Aleph 5
Quad ESL 57
Kimber 4TC
Kimber PBJ
Some other options I have been considering a AES PH-1, AES AE-3,
AES Sixpacs- Other components the same.
Now-- What kind of sound will I expect from this little system?

Very suboptimal sound quality given that it is based on vinyl playback.

Will the tube system have more depth?

It will probably make more heat.

I've been using tubes exclusivly for a long time and wonder whats
going to happen when I go to the Acoustech/Aleph 5 combination?

You will be spinning your wheels, but that's the whole point, right?

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 04:27:42 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Dennis Selwa" wrote in message
om
Hello,
I'm putting together a little bit at a time, my hi fi system. I
would like to hear from any one on the soundness of my choices, and
if I'm heading in the right direction.
OK here goes:
VPI scout,Dynavector 10x
Acoustech PH-1 (set for max gain so I wont use a line preamp -Just a
pot)
Pass Labs Aleph 5
Quad ESL 57
Kimber 4TC
Kimber PBJ
Some other options I have been considering a AES PH-1, AES AE-3,
AES Sixpacs- Other components the same.
Now-- What kind of sound will I expect from this little system?

Very suboptimal sound quality given that it is based on vinyl
playback.

Except that you're wrong, of course.

Notice that Weil lacks the common decency to say that he disagrees (that's
the actual truth, but far be it for a practiced liar and posturing expert
like Weil to lower himself to merely telling the truth), or explain why I'm
wrong.

Will the tube system have more depth?

It will probably make more heat.

And possibly be satisfying to listen to to the poster.

"to to"? I guess the presence of obvious errors is evidence that Weil's
response isn't programmed, because most automated responders at least
produce sentences with proper syntax and spelling. Weil's usual
carelessly-written response fails on both grounds.

As if it's impossible for a more modern system to be satisfying to the
listener.

I've been using tubes exclusivly (sic) for a long time and wonder what's
(sic)
going to happen when I go to the Acoustech/Aleph 5 combination?

You will be spinning your wheels, but that's the whole point, right?

Sounds like it's *you* who's spinning his wheels with this tired diss
of prference (sic), Mr. Krueger.

Personally, I have a preference for properly spelled words. But as most RAO
regulars know, Weil is too proud to use a spell checker, even though he
bought one.

;-)

Your response to this post sounds like it was programmed.

Whatever rocks your cradle, servant boy.

Without knowing what kind of tube gear you've been using, it's
impossible for anyone, including Mr. Krueger, to say whether or not
this new system will have more or less "depth" than what you currently
have.

Weil is too blinkered to notice that *nobody* is going to know whether a
system is going to have more or less depth in the absence of a
generally-agreed-upon definition of "depth".

Do you currently have the speakers, turntable, etc?

Does it matter?

If so, the best
thing of course is to try and borrow the gear that you're considering
and drop it into the system and do some comparison.

Given that there's a good chance that equipment this old is in need of
maintenance, any equipment he listens to but the actual equipment in
question will probably give different results.

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:57:16 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 04:27:42 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Dennis Selwa" wrote in message
om
Hello,
I'm putting together a little bit at a time, my hi fi system. I
would like to hear from any one on the soundness of my choices, and
if I'm heading in the right direction.
OK here goes:
VPI scout,Dynavector 10x
Acoustech PH-1 (set for max gain so I wont use a line preamp -Just a
pot)
Pass Labs Aleph 5
Quad ESL 57
Kimber 4TC
Kimber PBJ
Some other options I have been considering a AES PH-1, AES AE-3,
AES Sixpacs- Other components the same.
Now-- What kind of sound will I expect from this little system?

Very suboptimal sound quality given that it is based on vinyl
playback.

Except that you're wrong, of course.

Notice that Weil lacks the common decency to say that he disagrees

The fact that I said you're wrong says that I disagree.

(that's the actual truth, but far be it for a practiced liar and posturing expert
like Weil to lower himself to merely telling the truth), or explain why I'm
wrong.

You're wrong, because you don't know whether or not another person
will have the same violent anti-vinyl bias that you do, that's why.

Will the tube system have more depth?

It will probably make more heat.

And possibly be satisfying to listen to to the poster.

"to to"? I guess the presence of obvious errors is evidence that Weil's
response isn't programmed, because most automated responders at least
produce sentences with proper syntax and spelling.

Of course, my response isn't programmed. The fact that you didn't seem
to make any "obvious errors", when your posts are normally rife with
them, indicates that I'm right. Thanks for pointing that out.

Weil's usual carelessly-written response fails on both grounds.

Which means that I'm a human being responding to the post, not a
computer-generated autoreply.

As if it's impossible for a more modern system to be satisfying to the
listener.

As if I said that. Nice "debating trade" tactic though.

I've been using tubes exclusivly (sic) for a long time and wonder what's
(sic)
going to happen when I go to the Acoustech/Aleph 5 combination?

You will be spinning your wheels, but that's the whole point, right?

Sounds like it's *you* who's spinning his wheels with this tired diss
of prference (sic), Mr. Krueger.

Personally, I have a preference for properly spelled words.

This would be a lie, based on available evidence.

But as most RAO regulars know, Weil is too proud to use a spell checker, even though he
bought one.

It came with the newsreader.

Your response to this post sounds like it was programmed.

Whatever rocks your cradle, servant boy.

I really appreciate the reference, because apparently it had a
retroactive effect on my tips last night. Walked with $191 on sales of
$850. considering that my tipout was $13, I had a great percentage.
Over 20%. Swwweeeet.

So, thanks again for your malevolent thoughts. Keep them coming, Mr.
Krueger. You're my little personal good luck charm.

Without knowing what kind of tube gear you've been using, it's
impossible for anyone, including Mr. Krueger, to say whether or not
this new system will have more or less "depth" than what you currently
have.

Weil is too blinkered to notice that *nobody* is going to know whether a
system is going to have more or less depth in the absence of a
generally-agreed-upon definition of "depth".

Well, most people know what the guy meant.

Do you currently have the speakers, turntable, etc?

Does it matter?

It does to try to give an educated opinion about the difference
between his current system and the substitutions that he has planned.

If so, the best
thing of course is to try and borrow the gear that you're considering
and drop it into the system and do some comparison.

Given that there's a good chance that equipment this old is in need of
maintenance, any equipment he listens to but the actual equipment in
question will probably give different results.

How do you know how old his gear is (or whether or not he even has it
currently)? The only thing that seems old enough to be "in need of
maintenance" is the Quad speaker system, and it's not clear whether he
currently has them or is building the system piece by piece, with the
specifically listed gear to be purchased in the future (or even if
they've recently BEEN rebuilt). That's part of why I asked in the
first place. Of course, you didn't bother to ask *any* questions about
his current system, something that most "scientists" would do before
expressing an opinion. You just decided to **** all over the thread,
as usual.

Nice work, Mr. Krueger.

In article ZyURa.90144$ye4.64978@sccrnsc01,
"normanstrong" wrote:

"Dennis Selwa" wrote in message
om...
Hello,
I'm putting together a little bit at a time, my hi fi system. I
would
like to hear from any one on the soundness of my choices, and if I'm
heading in the right direction.
OK here goes:
VPI scout,Dynavector 10x
Acoustech PH-1 (set for max gain so I wont use a line preamp -Just a
pot)
Pass Labs Aleph 5
Quad ESL 57
Kimber 4TC
Kimber PBJ
Some other options I have been considering a AES PH-1, AES AE-3,
AES Sixpacs- Other components the same.
Now-- What kind of sound will I expect from this little system? Will
the tube system have more depth?
I've been using tubes exclusivly for a long time and wonder whats
going to happen when I go to the Acoustech/Aleph 5 combination?

Dennis Selwa

You're going to have less money in the bank--for sure. Where does the
bass come from? I don't recognize any part numbers that look like
speakers, except for the Quad ESL, which has nothing much in the bass
region.

ESLs reportedly go down to 40 hz, which is good enough for a lot of
people. And look at all the money he's saving on a preamp.

It didn't take long to find this:

http://www.quadesl.org/Amplifiers/amplifiers.html

There are some inexpensive recommendations there, including the NAD 3020
and the Naim NAIT, assuming one can find one in good condition.

Stephen

Hi,
I understand that asking a question based on a purely subjective
observation will give an infinite number of answers.
Anyway my old equioment:
Citation II
Fisher 55A
Curcio ST70
Eico HF85
MC60's
Quads and Rauna Leiras
Dual 510 with Shure V15MK3

There is no doubt that the new system eclipses the old one. ( I hope
eclipse isnt one of those hackneyed audiophile terms. I dont usually
use them).
Any way I'm going with the new system full speed ahead and damn the
torpedos and arrows of missfortune.

Dennis Selwa

Dennis Selwa wrote:


Hi,
I understand that asking a question based on a purely subjective
observation will give an infinite number of answers.
Anyway my old equioment:
Citation II
Fisher 55A
Curcio ST70
Eico HF85
MC60's
Quads and Rauna Leiras
Dual 510 with Shure V15MK3

There is no doubt that the new system eclipses the old one. ( I hope
eclipse isnt one of those hackneyed audiophile terms. I dont usually
use them).
Any way I'm going with the new system full speed ahead and damn the
torpedos and arrows of missfortune.

Dennis Selwa







Sounds llike you've made some sound judgments. Naturallly, you'll disregard -
and wisely - the nasty anti-vinyl propaganda that you got in response to a
legitimate question. It's unfortunate that pollution of that type occurs on
RAO, but fortunately, it is limited to one person.

As a former owner of Quad ESL 57's (which I ran, believe it or not with an old
Fisher 400 receiver), I think you'll be very pleased as long as you get a pair
that is in good condition with intact panels with no arcing damage. Although I
prefer running electrostatics with tubes (currently I'm using Martin Logan CSL
II speakers), I've ;auditioned several of the Pass Aleph models in the past,
and I liked what I heard. Not harsh, no "transistoritis" IMHO, and quite
neutral sounding. Just be sure not to overdrive the Quads, as they don't
require a lot of power.

I also own a VPI turntable, and have nothing but good things to say about their
products. They are very rugged, realtively easy to set up, and do not require
a lot of tinkering - all good things in my book.

Now, all you need to ask, and I highly recommend it, is the Disc Doctor
bursh/cleaning fluid system. This 2-step, once-only cleaning process does a
better job in cleaning LPs (both used and new) than anything I've used in the
past. Check it out at http://www.discdoc.com, and good luck!




Bruce J. Richman

Dennis -

Ignore Arny. He is the resident nincompoop of r.a.o. Lately his
disorder manifests in a need to dis people who want advice about
playing records.

I don't have any LPs myself, so I have no advice for you other than
this: don't pay a bit of attention to Krueger's rantings. He's a mean
person with no intention of helping you.



"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ...
"Dennis Selwa" wrote in message
om
Hello,
I'm putting together a little bit at a time, my hi fi system. I would
like to hear from any one on the soundness of my choices, and if I'm
heading in the right direction.
OK here goes:
VPI scout,Dynavector 10x
Acoustech PH-1 (set for max gain so I wont use a line preamp -Just a
pot)
Pass Labs Aleph 5
Quad ESL 57
Kimber 4TC
Kimber PBJ
Some other options I have been considering a AES PH-1, AES AE-3,
AES Sixpacs- Other components the same.
Now-- What kind of sound will I expect from this little system?

Very suboptimal sound quality given that it is based on vinyl playback.

Will the tube system have more depth?

It will probably make more heat.

I've been using tubes exclusivly for a long time and wonder whats
going to happen when I go to the Acoustech/Aleph 5 combination?

You will be spinning your wheels, but that's the whole point, right?

dave said:

How do you know how old his gear is (or whether or not he even has it
currently)? The only thing that seems old enough to be "in need of
maintenance" is the Quad speaker system, and it's not clear whether he
currently has them or is building the system piece by piece, with the
specifically listed gear to be purchased in the future (or even if
they've recently BEEN rebuilt). That's part of why I asked in the
first place. Of course, you didn't bother to ask *any* questions about
his current system, something that most "scientists" would do before
expressing an opinion. You just decided to **** all over the thread,
as usual.

Nice work, Mr. Krueger.

Arny's anti-vinyl comments to this guy are so obvious and so trite, I can only
come up with two explanations:

1) Arny wants to take everyone's mind off the fact that he's a child
pornographer by being so overtly and obnoxiously against vinyl.

2) Arny's an attention whore, and his pederasty has made so many people ignore,
avoid and killfile him that he needs to raise his profile to satisfy his need
to be acknowledged by others.

Both, of course, are probably right.

Boon

"Marc Phillips" wrote in message

dave said:

How do you know how old his gear is (or whether or not he even has it
currently)? The only thing that seems old enough to be "in need of
maintenance" is the Quad speaker system, and it's not clear whether
he currently has them or is building the system piece by piece, with
the specifically listed gear to be purchased in the future (or even
if they've recently BEEN rebuilt). That's part of why I asked in the
first place. Of course, you didn't bother to ask *any* questions
about his current system, something that most "scientists" would do
before expressing an opinion. You just decided to **** all over the
thread, as usual.

Nice work, Mr. Krueger.

Arny's anti-vinyl comments to this guy are so obvious and so trite, I
can only come up with two explanations:

1) Arny wants to take everyone's mind off the fact that he's a child
pornographer by being so overtly and obnoxiously against vinyl.

Marc Phillips dredges up this non-existent child pronography issue whenever
vinyl is getting its just deserts and he can't cope with it.

2) Arny's an attention whore, and his pederasty has made so many
people ignore, avoid and killfile him that he needs to raise his
profile to satisfy his need to be acknowledged by others.

The pederasty is 100% a fabrication of Marc Phillips imagination. It always
surprises me that my posts get so much attention.

Both, of course, are probably right.

In Marc Phillips' little world, he's smart.

LOL!

Arny said:

Marc Phillips dredges up this non-existent child pronography

Oh please. Why do you even bother defending yourself anymore? Everyone has
seen the proof, everyone had to live through the ugliness of your fantasy
world.

Just leave the group. You disgust us all.

Boon

Dennis Selwa wrote:

There is no doubt that the new system eclipses the old one. ( I hope
eclipse isnt one of those hackneyed audiophile terms. I dont usually
use them).
Any way I'm going with the new system full speed ahead and damn the
torpedos and arrows of missfortune.

One thing, though.

Look at the Magnepan line. They aren't as good as new Quads, but
certainly aren't as expensive either. Worth a listen, IMO.

(Bruce J. Richman) wrote in message
and I liked what I heard. Not harsh, no "transistoritis" IMHO, and quite
neutral sounding. Just be sure not to overdrive the Quads, as they don't
require a lot of power.

I also own a VPI turntable, and have nothing but good things to say about their
products. They are very rugged, realtively easy to set up, and do not require
a lot of tinkering - all good things in my book.

Now, all you need to ask, and I highly recommend it, is the Disc Doctor
bursh/cleaning fluid system. This 2-step, once-only cleaning process does a
better job in cleaning LPs (both used and new) than anything I've used in the
past. Check it out at http://www.discdoc.com, and good luck!




Bruce J. Richman
Hello Bruce,
Thanks for the fine advice. Actually I will eventually get a record
cleaning machine. For now I'll clean my records at "Stereo Unlimited"
here in San Diego. He provides the solutions and will charge me about
$10 to clean 25 records.
Yea I took Arnies comments as a bit of tounge in cheek.There's humor
in his comments--just have to read between the lines. I guess he's the
local court jester. Checking out some of his past posts on vinyl he
does have an AR turntable (or did). Anyway there were no hurt
feelings.

Dennis Selwa

"Marc Phillips" wrote in message

Arny said:

Marc Phillips dredges up this non-existent child pornography

Oh please. Why do you even bother defending yourself anymore?
Everyone has seen the proof, everyone had to live through the
ugliness of your fantasy world.

Phillips, there is no proof. People see your so-called evidence and laugh
you and your claims off.

Just leave the group.

Stay around Phillips. We need village idiots like you for comic relief.

You disgust us all.

You're externalizing again, Phillips.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 06:20:09 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote:

Dennis Selwa wrote:

Pass Labs Aleph 5
Quad ESL 57

Nice speaker. Requires gobs of power, though. Super-clean preamp
as well.

Kimber 4TC
Kimber PBJ

Just get some big gauge wire. No need to buy into that "uber-wire"
nonsense. For these speakers, 6-8 gauge would be overkill and more
than twice the metal per foot than those Kimbers.

Why does it bother you that someone would gasp spend $10 a foot on
speaker wire?

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 06:20:09 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote:

Dennis Selwa wrote:

Pass Labs Aleph 5
Quad ESL 57

Nice speaker. Requires gobs of power, though. Super-clean preamp
as well.

Kimber 4TC
Kimber PBJ

Just get some big gauge wire. No need to buy into that "uber-wire"
nonsense. For these speakers, 6-8 gauge would be overkill and more
than twice the metal per foot than those Kimbers.

Why does it bother you that someone would gasp spend $10 a foot on
speaker wire?

Two typical 8 foot runs gets you to $160 for what amounts to being $4.00
worth of wire.

If I were as unethical as Weil, I'd think its a great idea that stupid
arrogant people get ripped off for $156 early and often. If only I could be
as unethical as Ray Kimber, and get people to send the money to me!

LOL!

Arny said:

Phillips, there is no proof.

So you never introduced the phrase "Daddy, why did you grope me in my coffin?"
to the group?

Just say you didn't, and you might get off scot-free!

Leave the group, pervert.

Boon

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:01:25 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 06:20:09 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote:

Dennis Selwa wrote:

Pass Labs Aleph 5
Quad ESL 57

Nice speaker. Requires gobs of power, though. Super-clean preamp
as well.

Kimber 4TC
Kimber PBJ

Just get some big gauge wire. No need to buy into that "uber-wire"
nonsense. For these speakers, 6-8 gauge would be overkill and more
than twice the metal per foot than those Kimbers.

Why does it bother you that someone would gasp spend $10 a foot on
speaker wire?

Two typical 8 foot runs gets you to $160 for what amounts to being $4.00
worth of wire.

If I were as unethical as Weil, I'd think its a great idea that stupid
arrogant people get ripped off for $156 early and often. If only I could be
as unethical as Ray Kimber, and get people to send the money to me!

You sir are the unethical one by claiming that others are unethical.
The next thing you know, you'll be going after Rolex as an "unethical
company".

What a joke!

The sanctimonious Arnold Krueger expects *everyone* to share his
desire for mediocrity.

Cool.

Plus, I'll bet he's a bad tipper as well. After all, why leave 15 -20%
when you can leave 5%?

"Marc Phillips" wrote in message


Now as it evolves, if Phillips was smart he would have set the no archve
flag for this post but he didn't.

Here's the headers:

ath:
news5.aus1.giganews.com!firehose2!nntp4!intern1.nn tp.aus1.giganews.com!borde
r3.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wn14fe ed!worldnet.att.net!205.18
8.226.97!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m1.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
Lines: 14
X-Admin:
From: (Marc Phillips)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.opinion
Date: 19 Jul 2003 17:13:56 GMT
References:
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: The system I'm assembling
Message-ID:
Xref: intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com rec.audio.opinion:672463

Arny said:

Phillips, there is no proof.

So you never introduced the phrase "Daddy, why did you grope me in my
coffin?" to the group?

That's right. Please see the results of this Google retrieval:

http://www.google.com/groups?q=%22Da...in+my+co ffin
%22

Just say you didn't, and you might get off scot-free!

I didn't introduce the phrase to the group, as proven by the google
retrieval I just provided.

Leave the group, pervert.

If I catch your drift Phillips, you're saying that the person who introduced
this phrase to the group should leave, right?

Here's a news flash: That person is you.

All I have to say is "Bon voyage"!

;-)

Oh, and BTW please take Middius and North with you!

LOL!

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:01:25 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 06:20:09 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote:

Dennis Selwa wrote:

Pass Labs Aleph 5
Quad ESL 57

Nice speaker. Requires gobs of power, though. Super-clean preamp
as well.

Actually, the ESL-57 is pretty inefficient, but more significantly it can't
handle gobs of power very long without being destroyed.

Kimber 4TC
Kimber PBJ

Just get some big gauge wire. No need to buy into that "uber-wire"
nonsense. For these speakers, 6-8 gauge would be overkill and more
than twice the metal per foot than those Kimbers.

Why does it bother you that someone would gasp spend $10 a foot on
speaker wire?

Two typical 8 foot runs gets you to $160 for what amounts to being
$4.00 worth of wire.

If I were as unethical as Weil, I'd think its a great idea that
stupid arrogant people get ripped off for $156 early and often. If
only I could be as unethical as Ray Kimber, and get people to send
the money to me!

You sir are the unethical one by claiming that others are unethical.

Prove it. Without proof its a lie which is of course, unethical.

The next thing you know, you'll be going after Rolex as an "unethical
company".

Irrelevant and unfounded claim. Attempt at mind reading. Unethical.

What a joke!

Yes you are, Weil.

LOL!

The sanctimonious Arnold Krueger expects *everyone* to share his
desire for mediocrity.

Prove that there's some audible advantage to Kimber's $10 a foot wire over
the commodity equivalent and your claim of mediocrity becomes ethical.
Otherwise Weil, its more proof that you are a liar, which is of course
unethical.

Cool.

Unethical.

Plus, I'll bet he's a bad tipper as well. After all, why leave 15 -20%
when you can leave 5%?

Irrelevant. Presumptuous. Unethical.

"George M. Middius" wrote in message
news
dave weil said:

The sanctimonious Arnold Krueger expects *everyone* to share his
desire for mediocrity.

Cool.

Plus, I'll bet he's a bad tipper as well. After all, why leave 15
-20% when you can leave 5%?

Isn't that academic now that Mr. **** is under house arrest?

Yet another lie.

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:18:16 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:01:25 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 06:20:09 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote:

Dennis Selwa wrote:

Pass Labs Aleph 5
Quad ESL 57

Nice speaker. Requires gobs of power, though. Super-clean preamp
as well.

Actually, the ESL-57 is pretty inefficient, but more significantly it can't
handle gobs of power very long without being destroyed.

Kimber 4TC
Kimber PBJ

Just get some big gauge wire. No need to buy into that "uber-wire"
nonsense. For these speakers, 6-8 gauge would be overkill and more
than twice the metal per foot than those Kimbers.

Why does it bother you that someone would gasp spend $10 a foot on
speaker wire?

Two typical 8 foot runs gets you to $160 for what amounts to being
$4.00 worth of wire.

If I were as unethical as Weil, I'd think its a great idea that
stupid arrogant people get ripped off for $156 early and often. If
only I could be as unethical as Ray Kimber, and get people to send
the money to me!

You sir are the unethical one by claiming that others are unethical.

Prove it. Without proof its a lie which is of course, unethical.

You have claimed without proof that people are unethical. This makes
you unethical. It's just as valid as *your* ideas of ethics.

The next thing you know, you'll be going after Rolex as an "unethical
company".

Irrelevant and unfounded claim.

Not at all. It goes right to the heart of the matter.

Attempt at mind reading. Unethical.

Thank you for avoiding my "claim". Guess this proves that I'm right.

What a joke!

Yes you are, Weil.

LOL!

Lack of imagination from Mr. Krueger noted.

The sanctimonious Arnold Krueger expects *everyone* to share his
desire for mediocrity.

Prove that there's some audible advantage to Kimber's $10 a foot wire over
the commodity equivalent and your claim of mediocrity becomes ethical.

Prove that *anyone* has made any technical claims about Kimber in this
thread, other than you. Prove that you've done the requisite
measurements of the said product and disclose the results of your
listening tests to back up your claims.

Otherwise Weil, its more proof that you are a liar, which is of course
unethical.

Cool.

Unethical.

Hardly.

Prove it!

g

Plus, I'll bet he's a bad tipper as well. After all, why leave 15 -20%
when you can leave 5%?

Irrelevant. Presumptuous. Unethical.

Nope. Just speaking what seems to be the truth, based on your postings
here on USENET. And it's *not* irrelevant to your dismissal of things
that cost more than the "minimum".

Looks like I've kicked your butt yet again.

It's like skimming scum off of the pond...

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:19:23 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"George M. Middius" wrote in message
news
dave weil said:

The sanctimonious Arnold Krueger expects *everyone* to share his
desire for mediocrity.

Cool.

Plus, I'll bet he's a bad tipper as well. After all, why leave 15
-20% when you can leave 5%?

Isn't that academic now that Mr. **** is under house arrest?

Yet another lie.

Prove it!

LOL!

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:04:25 -0400, George M. Middius
wrote:



dave weil said:

The sanctimonious Arnold Krueger expects *everyone* to share his
desire for mediocrity.

Cool.

Plus, I'll bet he's a bad tipper as well. After all, why leave 15 -20%
when you can leave 5%?

Isn't that academic now that Mr. **** is under house arrest?

I'm one of those people who believes in tipping the pizza boy.

Of course, this phrase takes on whole new meanings in Arnold's world,
so I suppose you might be correct.

(Dennis Selwa) wrote in message . com...
Hello,
I'm putting together a little bit at a time, my hi fi system. I would
like to hear from any one on the soundness of my choices, and if I'm
heading in the right direction.
OK here goes:
VPI scout,Dynavector 10x
Acoustech PH-1 (set for max gain so I wont use a line preamp -Just a
pot)
Pass Labs Aleph 5
Quad ESL 57
Kimber 4TC
Kimber PBJ

I went in this direction for a little while, in a fit of madness. I
dropped quite a bit of money on B&W speakers, kimber interconnects,
Musical Fidelity sources, Parasound monoblock amps, Monster Power
conditioners, etc.

About a month ago I spent less than $2000 on the following system:

$ 0 An old Sony DVD player w/toslink-out( used as CD transport only
)
$ 300 Behringer UltraCurve Pro DEQ2496
$ 150 Slightly used Behringer Eurorack UB1622FX-PRO
$1300 Mackie 824HR Active studio Monitors
$ 200 Markertek XLR cables( canare cable with neutrik connectors )

The DEQ2496's room correction and RTA features have proved invaluable,
and I currently get better sound from this setup than I ever did from
the far more expensive setup. I now listen to music exclusively on
this system, and the expensive gear has been relegated to home
theater.

Dennis Sliwa wrote:


(Bruce J. Richman) wrote in message
and I liked what I heard. Not harsh, no "transistoritis" IMHO, and quite
neutral sounding. Just be sure not to overdrive the Quads, as they don't
require a lot of power.

I also own a VPI turntable, and have nothing but good things to say about
their
products. They are very rugged, realtively easy to set up, and do not
require
a lot of tinkering - all good things in my book.

Now, all you need to ask, and I highly recommend it, is the Disc Doctor
bursh/cleaning fluid system. This 2-step, once-only cleaning process does
a
better job in cleaning LPs (both used and new) than anything I've used in
the
past. Check it out at http://www.discdoc.com, and good luck!




Bruce J. Richman
Hello Bruce,
Thanks for the fine advice. Actually I will eventually get a record
cleaning machine.

That's a good idea. I use a VPI 16.5 RCM and recommend it highly. It's
ruggedly built, and does what it is designed to do. I use it in conjunction
with the Disc Doctor cleaning fluid and brushes, which I find more effective
than the stock VPI brush and cleaning fluid...Check out the Disc Doctor web
site to see instructions for using these 2 products together.



For now I'll clean my records at "Stereo Unlimited"
here in San Diego. He provides the solutions and will charge me about
$10 to clean 25 records.
Yea I took Arnies comments as a bit of tounge in cheek.There's humor
in his comments--just have to read between the lines. I guess he's the
local court jester. Checking out some of his past posts on vinyl he
does have an AR turntable (or did). Anyway there were no hurt
feelings.

Dennis Selwa











Bruce J. Richman

dave weil said:

Plus, I'll bet he's a bad tipper as well. After all, why leave 15
-20% when you can leave 5%?

Isn't that academic now that Mr. **** is under house arrest?

Yet another lie.

Prove it!

In any case, we have him well trained.

Arny said:

Now as it evolves, if Phillips was smart he would have set the no archve
flag for this post but he didn't.

Here's the headers:

ath:
news5.aus1.giganews.com!firehose2!nntp4!intern1.n ntp.aus1.giganews.com!borde
r3.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wn14f eed!worldnet.att.net!205.18
8.226.97!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m1.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
Lines: 14
X-Admin:
From: (Marc Phillips)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.opinion
Date: 19 Jul 2003 17:13:56 GMT
References:
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: The system I'm assembling
Message-ID:
Xref: intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com rec.audio.opinion:672463

Arny said:

Phillips, there is no proof.

So you never introduced the phrase "Daddy, why did you grope me in my
coffin?" to the group?

That's right. Please see the results of this Google retrieval:

http://www.google.com/groups?q=%22Da...in+my+co ffin
%22

Just say you didn't, and you might get off scot-free!

I didn't introduce the phrase to the group, as proven by the google
retrieval I just provided.

Leave the group, pervert.

If I catch your drift Phillips, you're saying that the person who introduced
this phrase to the group should leave, right?

Here's a news flash: That person is you.

All I have to say is "Bon voyage"!

;-)

Oh, and BTW please take Middius and North with you!

LOL!


Ugh. Forget it. It's disgusting to watch you try to wiggle out from this. My
stomach is turning.

You're a scumbag, Arny. This post of yours proves that you're proud of it.

Boon

"Marc Phillips" wrote in message

Arny said:

Now as it evolves, if Phillips was smart he would have set the no
archve flag for this post but he didn't.

Here's the headers:

ath:

news5.aus1.giganews.com!firehose2!nntp4!intern1.nn tp.aus1.giganews.com!borde

r3.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wn14fe ed!worldnet.att.net!205.18
8.226.97!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m1.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
Lines: 14
X-Admin:
From: (Marc Phillips)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.opinion
Date: 19 Jul 2003 17:13:56 GMT
References:
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: The system I'm assembling
Message-ID:
Xref: intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com rec.audio.opinion:672463

Arny said:

Phillips, there is no proof.

So you never introduced the phrase "Daddy, why did you grope me in
my coffin?" to the group?

That's right. Please see the results of this Google retrieval:


http://www.google.com/groups?q=%22Da...in+my+co ffin
%22

Just say you didn't, and you might get off scot-free!

I didn't introduce the phrase to the group, as proven by the google
retrieval I just provided.

Leave the group, pervert.

If I catch your drift Phillips, you're saying that the person who
introduced this phrase to the group should leave, right?

Here's a news flash: That person is you.

All I have to say is "Bon voyage"!

;-)

Oh, and BTW please take Middius and North with you!

LOL!


Ugh. Forget it. It's disgusting to watch you try to wiggle out from
this. My stomach is turning.

I didn't wiggle out Phillips, I proved conclusively and beyond a shadow of a
doubt that you were the first person who introduced this vile phrase to the
newsgroup.

You're a scumbag, Arny.

I am innocent and you are guility, Phillips.

This post of yours proves that you're proud of it.

All proves is what a scumbag you are Phillips, and how you try to wriggle
out of taking responsibility for your own evil deeds.

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:19:23 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"George M. Middius" wrote in message
news
dave weil said:

The sanctimonious Arnold Krueger expects *everyone* to share his
desire for mediocrity.

Cool.

Plus, I'll bet he's a bad tipper as well. After all, why leave 15
-20% when you can leave 5%?

Isn't that academic now that Mr. **** is under house arrest?

Yet another lie.

Prove it!

That would be your task, Weil. Since positives are so easy to prove compaged
to negatives, have at it!

Arny said:

Now as it evolves, if Phillips was smart he would have set the no
archve flag for this post but he didn't.

Here's the headers:

ath:

news5.aus1.giganews.com!firehose2!nntp4!intern1.n ntp.aus1.giganews.com!borde

r3.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wn14f eed!worldnet.att.net!205.18
8.226.97!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m1.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
Lines: 14
X-Admin:
From: (Marc Phillips)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.opinion
Date: 19 Jul 2003 17:13:56 GMT
References:
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: The system I'm assembling
Message-ID:
Xref: intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com rec.audio.opinion:672463

Arny said:

Phillips, there is no proof.

So you never introduced the phrase "Daddy, why did you grope me in
my coffin?" to the group?

That's right. Please see the results of this Google retrieval:


http://www.google.com/groups?q=%22Da...in+my+co ffin
%22

Just say you didn't, and you might get off scot-free!

I didn't introduce the phrase to the group, as proven by the google
retrieval I just provided.

Leave the group, pervert.

If I catch your drift Phillips, you're saying that the person who
introduced this phrase to the group should leave, right?

Here's a news flash: That person is you.

All I have to say is "Bon voyage"!

;-)

Oh, and BTW please take Middius and North with you!

LOL!


Ugh. Forget it. It's disgusting to watch you try to wiggle out from
this. My stomach is turning.

I didn't wiggle out Phillips, I proved conclusively and beyond a shadow of a
doubt that you were the first person who introduced this vile phrase to the
newsgroup.

You're a scumbag, Arny.

I am innocent and you are guility, Phillips.

This post of yours proves that you're proud of it.

All proves is what a scumbag you are Phillips, and how you try to wriggle
out of taking responsibility for your own evil deeds.

Are you trying to tell me that the whole crux of this argument is that you said
"what did it feel like to grope me in my coffin, daddy?" instead of "Daddy, why
did you grope me in my coffin?"?

Is that it, you ****ing sick ****?

Leave the group, pervert. We don't want you here.

Boon

Marc Phillips said:

Are you trying to tell me that the whole crux of this argument is that you said
"what did it feel like to grope me in my coffin, daddy?" instead of "Daddy, why
did you grope me in my coffin?"?

You have pinpointed the crux of Mr. ****'s "debating trade" twisting.


Is that it, you ****ing sick ****?
Leave the group, pervert. We don't want you here.

May we please amend that to "Leave this earthly plane, pervert"?

"Marc Phillips" wrote in message

Arny said:

Now as it evolves, if Phillips was smart he would have set the no
archve flag for this post but he didn't.

Here's the headers:

ath:


news5.aus1.giganews.com!firehose2!nntp4!intern1.nn tp.aus1.giganews.com!borde


r3.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wn14fe ed!worldnet.att.net!205.18
8.226.97!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m1.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
Lines: 14
X-Admin:
From: (Marc Phillips)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.opinion
Date: 19 Jul 2003 17:13:56 GMT
References:
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: The system I'm assembling
Message-ID:
Xref: intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com rec.audio.opinion:672463

Arny said:

Phillips, there is no proof.

So you never introduced the phrase "Daddy, why did you grope me in
my coffin?" to the group?

That's right. Please see the results of this Google retrieval:



http://www.google.com/groups?q=%22Da...in+my+co ffin
%22

Just say you didn't, and you might get off scot-free!

I didn't introduce the phrase to the group, as proven by the google
retrieval I just provided.

Leave the group, pervert.

If I catch your drift Phillips, you're saying that the person who
introduced this phrase to the group should leave, right?

Here's a news flash: That person is you.

All I have to say is "Bon voyage"!

;-)

Oh, and BTW please take Middius and North with you!

LOL!


Ugh. Forget it. It's disgusting to watch you try to wiggle out
from this. My stomach is turning.

I didn't wiggle out Phillips, I proved conclusively and beyond a
shadow of a doubt that you were the first person who introduced this
vile phrase to the newsgroup.

You're a scumbag, Arny.

I am innocent and you are guility, Phillips.

This post of yours proves that you're proud of it.

All proves is what a scumbag you are Phillips, and how you try to
wriggle out of taking responsibility for your own evil deeds.

Are you trying to tell me that the whole crux of this argument is
that you said "what did it feel like to grope me in my coffin,
daddy?" instead of "Daddy, why did you grope me in my coffin?"?

Phillips, I'm sure you're getting a real rush gratuyitously posting all this
trash on RAO.

Is that it, you ****ing sick ****?

Your desire to post and repost this stuff is really pretty sick. Why don't
you just stop it, eh Phillips?

Leave the group, pervert. We don't want you here.

You're the pervert, Phillips. But stick around, we need someone like you to
pity.

Arny said:

Now as it evolves, if Phillips was smart he would have set the no
archve flag for this post but he didn't.

Here's the headers:

ath:


news5.aus1.giganews.com!firehose2!nntp4!intern1.n ntp.aus1.giganews.com!borde


r3.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wn14f eed!worldnet.att.net!205.18
8.226.97!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m1.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
Lines: 14
X-Admin:
From: (Marc Phillips)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.opinion
Date: 19 Jul 2003 17:13:56 GMT
References:
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: The system I'm assembling
Message-ID:
Xref: intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com rec.audio.opinion:672463

Arny said:

Phillips, there is no proof.

So you never introduced the phrase "Daddy, why did you grope me in
my coffin?" to the group?

That's right. Please see the results of this Google retrieval:



http://www.google.com/groups?q=%22Da...in+my+co ffin
%22

Just say you didn't, and you might get off scot-free!

I didn't introduce the phrase to the group, as proven by the google
retrieval I just provided.

Leave the group, pervert.

If I catch your drift Phillips, you're saying that the person who
introduced this phrase to the group should leave, right?

Here's a news flash: That person is you.

All I have to say is "Bon voyage"!

;-)

Oh, and BTW please take Middius and North with you!

LOL!


Ugh. Forget it. It's disgusting to watch you try to wiggle out
from this. My stomach is turning.

I didn't wiggle out Phillips, I proved conclusively and beyond a
shadow of a doubt that you were the first person who introduced this
vile phrase to the newsgroup.

You're a scumbag, Arny.

I am innocent and you are guility, Phillips.

This post of yours proves that you're proud of it.

All proves is what a scumbag you are Phillips, and how you try to
wriggle out of taking responsibility for your own evil deeds.

Are you trying to tell me that the whole crux of this argument is
that you said "what did it feel like to grope me in my coffin,
daddy?" instead of "Daddy, why did you grope me in my coffin?"?

Phillips, I'm sure you're getting a real rush gratuyitously [sic] posting all
this
trash on RAO.

In other words, that IS the crux of the argument. Congratulations on dragging
the memory of your son through the mud once again in order to score imaginary
debating points with a bunch of strangers.


Is that it, you ****ing sick ****?

Your desire to post and repost this stuff is really pretty sick. Why don't
you just stop it, eh Phillips?

Why don't you leave? Why don't you pry yourself away from the clutches of your
mental illness and lead a productive life?

I had certainly chosen not to argue with you anymore, because it's not
honorable to argue with someone, like yourself, who is mentally ill. But you
can thank your buddy Bill Watkins for piping up and rehashing your same old
defeats here.


Leave the group, pervert. We don't want you here.

You're the pervert, Phillips. But stick around, we need someone like you to
pity.

There is no "we," Arny. Even Bill Watkins couldn't deal with your sickness any
more.

You are alone in the world.

Boon

Arny said:

"George M. Middius" wrote in message


Marc Phillips said:

his usual perverse grossness

You have pinpointed the crux of Mr. ****'s "debating trade" twisting.

Is that it, you ****ing sick ****?

Leave the group, pervert. We don't want you here.

May we please amend that to "Leave this earthly plane, pervert"?

This all makes no sense, either way.

How does this work Middius. Do you get off every time you make a post saying
that you want me to die? Could you possibly be more pathetic and disgusting?
Do you get off every time Phillips takes another swim in his little pool of
death and sex? Could either of you possibly be more pathetic and disgusting?

Your mistake Middius, and the mistake of Phillips is thinking that all this
gratuitous reveling in death and sex has no impact on your own image around
here.

Your mistake is that your failure to leave even though you're almost
universally reviled defines your image around here. it defines your mental
illness, in fact.

Boon

"Marc Phillips" wrote in message


Your mistake is that your failure to leave even though you're almost
universally reviled defines your image around here.

Except that you are delusional, Phillips. OK, so you and Middius revile me.
Who are you in the cosmic scheme of things? You are two nobodies. You have
zero credibility.

it defines your mental illness, in fact.

Yet another example of your lies and delusions, Phillips. If you haven't
noticed, this group is nearly dead while the other audio groups have grown.
My advice to people to post about audio in those other groups has been acted
on by many people, leaving RAO a backwater.

You can continue to trash this place as long as you like, Phillips - no skin
off my nose.

"Marc Phillips" wrote in message

Arny said:

Now as it evolves, if Phillips was smart he would have set the no
archve flag for this post but he didn't.

Here's the headers:

ath:



news5.aus1.giganews.com!firehose2!nntp4!intern1.nn tp.aus1.giganews.com!borde



r3.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wn14fe ed!worldnet.att.net!205.18
8.226.97!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m1.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
Lines: 14
X-Admin:
From: (Marc Phillips)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.opinion
Date: 19 Jul 2003 17:13:56 GMT
References:
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: The system I'm assembling
Message-ID:
Xref: intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com rec.audio.opinion:672463

Arny said:

Phillips, there is no proof.

So you never introduced the phrase "Daddy, why did you grope me
in my coffin?" to the group?

That's right. Please see the results of this Google retrieval:




http://www.google.com/groups?q=%22Da...in+my+co ffin
%22

Just say you didn't, and you might get off scot-free!

I didn't introduce the phrase to the group, as proven by the
google retrieval I just provided.

Leave the group, pervert.

If I catch your drift Phillips, you're saying that the person who
introduced this phrase to the group should leave, right?

Here's a news flash: That person is you.

All I have to say is "Bon voyage"!

;-)

Oh, and BTW please take Middius and North with you!

LOL!


Ugh. Forget it. It's disgusting to watch you try to wiggle out
from this. My stomach is turning.

I didn't wiggle out Phillips, I proved conclusively and beyond a
shadow of a doubt that you were the first person who introduced
this vile phrase to the newsgroup.

You're a scumbag, Arny.

I am innocent and you are guility, Phillips.

This post of yours proves that you're proud of it.

All proves is what a scumbag you are Phillips, and how you try to
wriggle out of taking responsibility for your own evil deeds.

Are you trying to tell me that the whole crux of this argument is
that you said "what did it feel like to grope me in my coffin,
daddy?" instead of "Daddy, why did you grope me in my coffin?"?

Phillips, I'm sure you're getting a real rush gratuyitously [sic]
posting all this trash on RAO.

In other words, that IS the crux of the argument. Congratulations on
dragging the memory of your son through the mud once again in order
to score imaginary debating points with a bunch of strangers.

Hurts you more than it hurts me, Phillips.

Is that it, you ****ing sick ****?

Your desire to post and repost this stuff is really pretty sick. Why
don't you just stop it, eh Phillips?

Why don't you leave?

Because it ****es you and Middius off, Phillips.

Why don't you pry yourself away from the
clutches of your mental illness and lead a productive life?

I do lead a productive life, Phillips. You're the one whose only apparent
hobby is diving in the sewer of your imagination.

I had certainly chosen not to argue with you anymore, because it's not
honorable to argue with someone, like yourself, who is mentally ill.

LOL. There's no evidence that you did that, Phillips. The evidence before us
shows a very perverted Marc Phillips who posts his fantasies about abused
children.

But you can thank your buddy Bill Watkins for piping up and rehashing
your same old defeats here.

Bill Watkins? Where is Bill Watkins? Show me a post by Bill Watkins in the
last 5 days.

Leave the group, pervert. We don't want you here.

You're the pervert, Phillips. But stick around, we need someone like
you to pity.

There is no "we," Arny.


But that's where you are wrong, Phillips.

Even Bill Watkins couldn't deal with your sickness any more.

Watkins wrote me privately that it was your sickness that disturbed him
most, Phillips.

You are alone in the world.

Except I'm not. I have free run of all the audio groups in Usenet where I
have many productive conversations, and you're tied down talking dirty in
just this one backwater newsgroup, Phillips.

Marc Phillips said:

Leave the group, pervert. We don't want you here.

May we please amend that to "Leave this earthly plane, pervert"?

This all makes no sense, either way.

How does this work Middius. Do you get off every time you make a post saying
that you want me to die? Could you possibly be more pathetic and disgusting?
Do you get off every time Phillips takes another swim in his little pool of
death and sex? Could either of you possibly be more pathetic and disgusting?

Your mistake Middius, and the mistake of Phillips is thinking that all this
gratuitous reveling in death and sex has no impact on your own image around
here.

Your mistake is that your failure to leave even though you're almost
universally reviled defines your image around here. it defines your mental
illness, in fact.

Ain't that the truth.

Hmm..... On reconsideration, it strikes me that Krooger's little
tantrum there sounds distinctly like something a kid caught
red-handed with a dirty magazine would say. I think Mr. **** is
saying he's going to show us, and show us good. "You think you'll be
happy if I die? You think so? Well, watch this!"

What's it going to be, Arnii? An encounter with a bus speeding down
your little street? Charging into the police station with your
pistol in your hand? Or maybe the long-delayed exploration of the
bottom of Lake Superior?

Whatever you choose, I have to agree that you're right about one
thing -- we may not be as deliriously happy as we all think we'll be.

Arny said:

Marc Phillips" wrote in message



Your mistake is that your failure to leave even though you're almost
universally reviled defines your image around here.

Except that you are delusional, Phillips. OK, so you and Middius revile me.
Who are you in the cosmic scheme of things? You are two nobodies. You have
zero credibility.

That's right. We're just two strangers who live in your computer. We can't
hurt you. We can't hurt you.


it defines your mental illness, in fact.

Yet another example of your lies and delusions, Phillips. If you haven't
noticed, this group is nearly dead while the other audio groups have grown.
My advice to people to post about audio in those other groups has been acted
on by many people, leaving RAO a backwater.

I actively participate in three other audio groups. You're right, they're much
more pleasant than RAO. That's because you don't post there.


You can continue to trash this place as long as you like, Phillips - no skin
off my nose.

Is that because you're hopelessly addicted to the attention you get here, even
though most of it is overwhelmingly negative?

LOL!

Boon

Arny said:

Hurts you more than it hurts me,

Jesus Christ, you just don't get it. I am not going to argue point by point
with someone who is mentally ill. That is not the same thing, however, as
telling anyone who thinks you are helpful, or knowledgeable, or "hard to beat
in a debate," that you are really a child pornographer. So if you don't want
to continue existing in an environment where the majority of people think
you're a sick, disgusting pervert, you should probably leave the group.

Boon