For some time now it's been obvious I neeeded a substantial upgrade to
the dismal tweeter and midrange of my LaScalas. But, I have been loath
to give up the unparalleled bass of Klipsch speakers.

The word has been out for a couple of months that I was after a pair
of rebuildable K-horns. Some time ago I got a call from a guy who said
he was driving along and saw what looked like a pair of old Klipsch
speakers outside along with a refrigerator on trash day in a local
yupscale neighborhood. I went out to check at the address he quoted,
and sure enough...there were a pair of Klipschhorns out there for
pickup.

Turns out they were the property, or ex-property, of a local opthalmic
surgeon who had a direct lightning hit. His Soundcraftsmen amplifier
took a direct hit and in its death throes took out the crossover, bass,
and one mid and treble driver each. He turned it in to insurance which
replaced them-and his huge flat screen-and told him to destroy the dead
units. He had already sledged the Soundcraftsmen but chose to just put
out the speakers for carryoff.

I could have them, he said, if I removed the serial numbers and ID
sticker, thus rendering them "destroyed" to the insurance company.


I did. The offending data was obliterated with a sander.

I have now completed my rebuild, using the JBL 2123J midrange cone
drivers and a Beyma horn tweeter, due to the higher price and sexually
provocative shape of the more popular JBL tweeter. (I was afraid my
living room would start smelling as if Margaret were visiting at some
point in the month...)

I have played the modified speakers for several listeners, including
at least three confirmed audio sizequeens who are only impressed by the
largest, fattest, hardest pricetags spewing gobs and gobs of snob
appeal to the moaning,sweating tweak cognoscenti and magazine
reviewers. The results are unanimous-they are absolutely convinced that
the midrange and treble are far more listenable than the stock
Klipsches, and that the finished speakers driven by small homemade
push-pull tube amps (no DHT's either) are, if no serious competition to
the Wilson Audio and similar jobs with the Holmesian pricetags, a
superior package to many if not most commercial stock modern speakers
in anything approaching the price range of what I have in these
speakers. Even spotting the fact I have small amplifiers and ones
probably not that great as compared to the Stereophile-appproved units
in their estimation.

One local pricequeen has agreed to bring over his preferred DAC,
preamp and power amps to see if they would sound better enough that he
too might want to build up a set of these speakers. Since he has Pass
amplifiers and I like Nelson's writing and those of his commercial
products I have so far heard I'm going to help him bring his stuff
over.

I will keep this group appraised of what we hear.

wrote:
For some time now it's been obvious I neeeded a
substantial upgrade to
the dismal tweeter and midrange of my LaScalas. But, I
have been loath
to give up the unparalleled bass of Klipsch speakers.

"Unparalleled bass" from Kilipsch LaScalas?

LOL!

The word has been out for a couple of months that I was
after a pair
of rebuildable K-horns. Some time ago I got a call from a
guy who said
he was driving along and saw what looked like a pair of
old Klipsch
speakers outside along with a refrigerator on trash day in
a local
yupscale neighborhood. I went out to check at the address
he quoted,
and sure enough...there were a pair of Klipschhorns out
there for
pickup.

Finally, a pair of speakers in Cal's price range.

I have played the modified speakers for several
listeners, including
at least three confirmed audio sizequeens who are only
impressed by
the largest, fattest, hardest pricetags spewing gobs and
gobs of snob
appeal to the moaning,sweating tweak cognoscenti and
magazine
reviewers. The results are unanimous-they are absolutely
convinced
that the midrange and treble are far more listenable than
the stock
Klipsches,

If one sets the bar low enough, even outdated fugitives from
garbage pickup day will suffice.

and that the finished speakers driven by small homemade
push-pull tube amps (no DHT's either) are, if no serious
competition
to the Wilson Audio and similar jobs with the Holmesian
pricetags, a
superior package to many if not most commercial stock
modern speakers
in anything approaching the price range of what I have in
these
speakers.

Since high efficiency with modest bass is desired, perhaps
some fairly good modern SR speakers would be in order.

Even spotting the fact I have small amplifiers and ones
probably not that great as compared to the
Stereophile-appproved units
in their estimation.

Sticking with tubes at any price in sound quality leads to
desperate moves.

One local pricequeen has agreed to bring over his
preferred DAC,
preamp and power amps to see if they would sound better
enough that he
too might want to build up a set of these speakers.

Which garbage day will offer him the required raw materials?

Since he has Pass
amplifiers and I like Nelson's writing and those of his
commercial
products I have so far heard I'm going to help him bring
his stuff
over.

Yup that's how to judge audio gear - buy from the guy who
writes the best PR...

It never fails that Kroomel gets it upside-down, left for right and
white for black. Perhaps darkroom work and not audio is his real forte.

The inexpensive SR speakers like PV, Behringer, Mackie, are using the
same technology as Klipsch, but using cheaper materials and cruder less
sensitive drivers for higher power handling.

My LaScalas ARE SR speakers. The only difference between the home and
pro ones is the finish. However, the K-horn has another 15 Hz usable
bass over the LaScalas, at the expense of requiring specific placement
in specific rooms.

While modern subwoofers go lower than the K-horn, they don't go as
high, putting the crossover at a place where it is audible and not
providing the natural low-midbass nothing but large horns can.

And I do not prefer tube amps "at any price". I do prefer them in my
price range though. If you get off your ass and build one of Nelson
Pass' excellent designs from his website or from magazine articles you
will find them-andd a few other solid state amps-competitive in sonic
quality with tube amps. Not QSC's or Peaveys.

Cal said:

While modern subwoofers go lower than the K-horn, they don't go as
high, putting the crossover at a place where it is audible and not
providing the natural low-midbass nothing but large horns can.

They're not supposed to go that high. One reason is that with a 12-15"
driver, an xover of 400HZ induces beaming.

SPECIFICATIONS Of LaScala Speakers:

FREQUENCY RESPONSE:53Hz-17kHz=B1 3dB
SENSITIVITY: 104dB @ 1watt/1meter
POWER HANDLING: 100 watts maximum continuous (400 watts peak)
MAX ACOUSTIC OUTPUT: 121dB SPL
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms
ENCLOSURE TYPE: Fully horn-loaded
DRIVE COMPONENTS: Three-way fully horn loaded system using one 1"
(2.5cm) phenolic diaphragm compression driver and one 2" (5.08cm)
phenolic diaphragm compression driver with an exponential horn and one
15" (38.1cm) fiber-composite cone woofer with an exponential folded
horn.
TWEETER: K-77-F 1" (2.54cm) Phenolic diaphragm compression driver
HF CROSSOVER: 4500Hz
MIDRANGE: K-55-X 2" (5.08cm) Phenolic diaphragm compression driver
MID FREQUENCY HORN: Exponential Horn
MF CROSSOVER: 400Hz
WOOFER: K-33-E 15" (38.1cm) Fiber-composite cone / folded horn-loaded
DIMENSIONS: 35.5" (90.17cm) x 23.75" (60.33cm) x 24.5" (62.23cm)
WEIGHT: 123 lbs. (55.84kg)
ENCLOSURE MATERIAL: Birch Plywood FINISHES: Unfinished Birch, Birch
Lacquer, Black Lacquer
YEARS BUILT: 1963 -

And I do not prefer tube amps "at any price". I do prefer them in my
price range though.

The only possible way tube amps in the lower price ranges can sound
decent, is with the ear splitters like LaScala's, which are
104db@1w/1M. If you used better more accurate loudseakers, you could
drive them with better, more accurate, and more powerful amps, which
would easily play loud enough to match what I assume are the levels you
probably employ.

If you get off your ass and build one of Nelson
Pass' excellent designs from his website or from magazine articles you
will find them-andd a few other solid state amps-competitive in sonic
quality with tube amps. Not QSC's or Peaveys.

That would depend on which amps you are referring to.

They are still inferior to any decently built SS amp.

The QSX amp that Arny uses is a model no longer made by them and does
not use a fan.

Peavey build their amps in the same way as any other consumer amp, sans
heat sinks.
They can hold their own against any other SS amp and blow the doors off
most tube gear.

Below are the specs for a $400.00 Peavey amp.
What specs do you think show it lacking in sound quality?


Technical Description

Stereo Mode: 4 Ohms: 500 Watts RMS x 2
Stereo Mode: 8 Ohms: 300 Watts RMS x 2
Bridge Mode-Mono: 8 Ohms: 1000 Watts RMS

Inputs: XLR, 1/4 in. and barrier strip

Total Harmonic Distortion: Less than 0.03% 20 Hz to 20 K, 10 dB below
rated power in stereo mode both channels driven

Frequency Response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz

Damping Factor: greater than 300

Hum and Noise: 100 dB

wrote:
Cal said:

While modern subwoofers go lower than the K-horn, they
don't go as
high, putting the crossover at a place where it is
audible and not
providing the natural low-midbass nothing but large horns
can.

They're not supposed to go that high. One reason is that
with a
12-15" driver, an xover of 400HZ induces beaming.

Hmm, that prediction of beaming would appear to contingent
on the following:

(1) A definition of what constitutes beaming. How narrow of
a dispersion pattern constitutes a beam? Is it it 20
degrees, 30, 40, 60, 80?

(2) A driver that operates free of cone break-up, and in an
enclosure that is free of diffraction effects.

(3) A system composed of just one driver.

Here's info about the directivity of a moderate-priced
speaker system based on a 15" driver:

http://www.electrovoice.com/Electrovoice3/files.nsf/Pages/Zx5-60/$file/Zx5-60_EDS.pdf

Please examine page 2, the plot of "Beamwidth".

A speaker that was free of cone break up and in an enclosure
with no diffraction effects would have a beamwidth that was
a smooth slope downwards. Instead, we find a beamwidth that
has a strong inflection point in the 150-450 Hz range, and a
very broad plateau above about 1 KHz. The plateau is no
doubt due to the midrange/tweeter which is designed to have
constant beamwidth. The inflection point could be due to
well-controlled cone breakup, or perhaps some diffraction
effects in the enclosure.

BTW, I have some experience direct with this speaker, and it
sounds pretty much like it measures. Some would say that it
is refined enough for use in a better home audio system,
admittedly a home audio system with rather exceptional
dynamic range.

"Enclosure material: Polypropylene Structural Foam."



Get out of town!

LaScalas are "ear splitters" only when driven by ****ty high power
solid state amps. I have better amplifiers both tube and solid state
available, and in fact have hooked some up with excellent results. I
used my old cheesy tube amps (essentially Williamsons, with salvaged
Kinsman organ transformers) to prove a point and to see what they could
do. I have also used the NYAL Moscode amplifiers, which I consider some
of the best, and some Haflers, with good results. But the modded
K-horns are superior with any amp.

wrote:
Below are the specs for a $400.00 Peavey amp.
What specs do you think show it lacking in sound quality?

If specs equals sound quality Arny Krueger is King. But it isnt and he
isn't either.

wrote
wrote:




Below are the specs for a $400.00 Peavey amp.
What specs do you think show it lacking in sound quality?

If specs equals sound quality Arny Krueger is King. But it isnt
and he isn't either.


Specs is all they have to scorch and dishearten the heart
of those in pursuit of higher fidelity in the High-End industry.

OOPS, sorry I thought it was CVal who made both these statements.

Doesn't really matter since both statements are bull****.

Cal said:

If specs equals sound quality Arny Krueger is King. But it isnt
and he isn't either.

Honest specifications do indeed equal sound quality, and it's that fact
that has the tweako element so ****ing ****ed off at things like ABX.


Specs is all they have to scorch and dishearten the heart
of those in pursuit of higher fidelity in the High-End industry.

IOW truth hurts the high end, got it.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Cal said:

If specs equals sound quality Arny Krueger is King. But it isnt
and he isn't either.

Honest specifications do indeed equal sound quality, and it's that fact
that has the tweako element so ****ing ****ed off at things like ABX.



Duh, NYOB,
I recently declared you more literate than Mikey, and I still stand by
that,
but it doesn't mean that you have any more brain power than he has.
In fact, you are even more stupid than Mikey.

What are you opinions regarding the use of eminent domain for
highway construction?



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

wrote:

"Enclosure material: Polypropylene Structural Foam."

Get out of town!

Welcome to the 21st century.

Sackman shows he's not been paying attention:

Honest specifications do indeed equal sound quality, and it's that fact
that has the tweako element so ****ing ****ed off at things like ABX.

Nice non-argument.

Duh, NYOB,
I recently declared you more literate than Mikey, and I still stand by
that,
but it doesn't mean that you have any more brain power than he has.
In fact, you are even more stupid than Mikey.

How do I get to be different than myself?

What are you opinions regarding the use of eminent domain for
highway construction?


You mean government theft?

wrote in message
ups.com...
Sackman shows he's not been paying attention:

Honest specifications do indeed equal sound quality, and it's that
fact
that has the tweako element so ****ing ****ed off at things like ABX.

Nice non-argument.

Duh, NYOB,
I recently declared you more literate than Mikey, and I still stand by
that,
but it doesn't mean that you have any more brain power than he has.
In fact, you are even more stupid than Mikey.

How do I get to be different than myself?

What are you opinions regarding the use of eminent domain for
highway construction?


You mean government theft?


Duh... NYOB
That's the Mikey we all know and love!



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

That's the land grabbing smart ass we all know.

wrote in message
ups.com...
That's the land grabbing smart ass we all know.


Remember that the next time you drive to Radio Shack.



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Clyde siad:

the land grabbing smart ass we all know.


Remember that the next time you drive to Radio Shack.

Radio Shack has nothing I want. :-)