The biggest problem with using Linux is that the support structure is
terrible. Most distribution's if purchased, not copied, come with basic
install support at basic video resolution and little, if any,
applications support.
For applications support you are dependent upon the Linux community at
large and there in lies the problem.
If you feel like being called an idiot, harassed for top posting, or
going into groups where people purposely put code at the beginning of
their messages that will screw up Outlook, then maybe Linux is for you.

Take a look at any Linux support group and you will see all of these in
addition to the numerous posts calling everyone and his father a troll
simply because the person posted a message asking for help with a
problem he is having with Linux.
There is a guy in alt.os.linux.suse (houghi) who goes ape **** whenever
a person top posts. There is another, mjt, who is a nasty person and
considering his signature is nothing but an advertiesment for his
outdated books, should be nicer.
Then we have comp.os.linux.advocacy, where many of the people working
the Linux support desks hang out.
JESUS CHRIST, that has to be the cesspit of the internet.
These people are embedding virus's in their messages to confound and
infect Windows users.
It's almost like some kind of a cult or something. Get out the Koolaid!
Add to that the fact they lie about everything negative to Linux and
the entire affair is more than enough reason to NOT use Linux.

I looked at Linux a couple of months ago and based upon what I saw
going on in the newsgroups I decided against moving my companies 5
servers to Linux.
I am not able to pay the extortion rates that Redhat/Suse charge for
full support, and the same can be said for Microsoft, but at least with
Windows I have had excellent results with MS support online and the
Windows community who as a rule tend to be very helpful and MUCH LESS
condescending than the elite Linux community.

So I say, take a good look under the rug and see where you will be
going for Linux support and decide for yourself.
I and several of my colleagues did and Linux was not even considered
after seeing the way the community behaves.
Peter Lee

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Peter Lee wrote:

[Snip - Yet more Flatfish crap]

Your posting host, 69.79.208.200, is a trojaned machine acting as an
open HTTP POST and Socks v4 proxy. Most likely you're trying to hide
your true identity this way. Being such a coward automatically
invalidates whatever it was that you wrote.

[Typical Flatfish cross-posts trimmed in Followup-To]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFCmiQcd1ZThqotgfgRAqauAKCLvgmwRo8ItSy7eoqmGi NzzRwV4wCfZR0N
XtSCEu+TOjPOLhKZaVNHilA=
=TZvW
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
PeKaJe

Answers are a perilous grip on the universe. They can appear sensible
yet explain nothing. -- The Zensunni Whip

On Sun, 29 May 2005 12:55:33 -0700, Peter Lee wrote:

The biggest problem with using Linux is that the support structure is
terrible. Most distribution's if purchased, not copied, come with basic
install support at basic video resolution and little, if any,
applications support.
For applications support you are dependent upon the Linux community at
large and there in lies the problem.

What problem? You usually don't get a hell of a lot of support for MS
applications.

If you feel like being called an idiot, harassed for top posting, or
going into groups where people purposely put code at the beginning of
their messages that will screw up Outlook, then maybe Linux is for you.

I think you'd better back up and take a breather there for a second, son.
Outside of COLA, I've not experienced much of what you purport.


Take a look at any Linux support group and you will see all of these in
addition to the numerous posts calling everyone and his father a troll
simply because the person posted a message asking for help with a
problem he is having with Linux.
There is a guy in alt.os.linux.suse (houghi) who goes ape **** whenever
a person top posts. There is another, mjt, who is a nasty person and
considering his signature is nothing but an advertiesment for his
outdated books, should be nicer.
Then we have comp.os.linux.advocacy, where many of the people working
the Linux support desks hang out.
JESUS CHRIST, that has to be the cesspit of the internet.
These people are embedding virus's in their messages to confound and
infect Windows users.
It's almost like some kind of a cult or something. Get out the Koolaid!
Add to that the fact they lie about everything negative to Linux and
the entire affair is more than enough reason to NOT use Linux.

Simple solution - you don't like it, you don't have to go there. An
advocacy group is not the first place I'd look for help, anyway.


I looked at Linux a couple of months ago and based upon what I saw
going on in the newsgroups I decided against moving my companies 5
servers to Linux.
I am not able to pay the extortion rates that Redhat/Suse charge for
full support, and the same can be said for Microsoft, but at least with
Windows I have had excellent results with MS support online and the
Windows community who as a rule tend to be very helpful and MUCH LESS
condescending than the elite Linux community.

So I say, take a good look under the rug and see where you will be
going for Linux support and decide for yourself.
I and several of my colleagues did and Linux was not even considered
after seeing the way the community behaves.
Peter Lee


If you put out the money for a boxed set of a major Linux distribution
(about $65, more or less) you should be quite pleased with the manuals you
get (where are the MS manuals?), as well as the support. I have always had
good experiences with them. For one thing, Linux software seldom breaks,
so you don't need to repair things - that is one major consideration
which, alone, will save you a lot of time, hassle, and money.

This is a very odd post to rec.audio.pro. It is also factually
incorrect concerning costs and supports for servers (assuming normal
servers looking after web, mail, print, backup, etc... and not user
programs) but this is hardly the appropriate forum for debate. Given
that very few people on this mail group will be using linux why the
protest? I probably should have ignored it but why was it posted?

On Sunday 29 May 2005 13:55, Peter Lee
s.com) wrote:

The biggest problem

How are things going, Flatfish?

"andy" wrote ...
This is a very odd post to rec.audio.pro. It is also factually
incorrect concerning costs and supports for servers (assuming normal
servers looking after web, mail, print, backup, etc... and not user
programs) but this is hardly the appropriate forum for debate. Given
that very few people on this mail group will be using linux why the
protest? I probably should have ignored it but why was it posted?

It seems to be an offshoot from the "Linux and audio pro"
thread. Dunno why Mr. Lee started a new thread?

Peter Lee wrote:


You haven't migrated to GNU/Linux and know nothing about it,
choosing instead to use false identities to promote windopes
posting off topic to comp.os.linux.advocacy.

Peter Lee wrote:

The biggest problem with using Linux is that the support structure is
terrible.

Yeah, right, IBM has terrible support. Yeah, right.

"Peter Lee" writes:

The biggest problem with using Linux is that the support structure is
terrible. Most distribution's if purchased, not copied, come with basic
install support at basic video resolution and little, if any,
applications support.
For applications support you are dependent upon the Linux community at
large and there in lies the problem.
If you feel like being called an idiot, harassed for top posting, or
going into groups where people purposely put code at the beginning of
their messages that will screw up Outlook, then maybe Linux is for you.

Most messages are actually helpful. Some are not. Ignore those. It is
nothing personal. The people do not know you at all.


Take a look at any Linux support group and you will see all of these in
addition to the numerous posts calling everyone and his father a troll
simply because the person posted a message asking for help with a
problem he is having with Linux.

Well, no. People are almost never called trolls when they post questions.
they are called trolls when they begin to lambaste linux or the community
because of the problems they are having.


There is a guy in alt.os.linux.suse (houghi) who goes ape **** whenever
a person top posts. There is another, mjt, who is a nasty person and
considering his signature is nothing but an advertiesment for his
outdated books, should be nicer.
Then we have comp.os.linux.advocacy, where many of the people working
the Linux support desks hang out.

Huh? Advocacy is not support. If you want support, why are you posting in
advocacy? You do know what advocacy means?


JESUS CHRIST, that has to be the cesspit of the internet.
These people are embedding virus's in their messages to confound and
infect Windows users.

Huh? A one line three word insert is a virus? Infect? It just makes your
windows app falldown. It does not damage to either you or your computer. It
leaves nothing in your computer. Sheesh.


It's almost like some kind of a cult or something. Get out the Koolaid!
Add to that the fact they lie about everything negative to Linux and
the entire affair is more than enough reason to NOT use Linux.

Now, this is becoming a troll.


I looked at Linux a couple of months ago and based upon what I saw
going on in the newsgroups I decided against moving my companies 5
servers to Linux.

??? Linux.advocacy is not neccessary to run your business. YOu need never
look there. If you would really base a company decision on what some people
post in some newsgroup you need never read, then your decision making
process is weird.


I am not able to pay the extortion rates that Redhat/Suse charge for
full support, and the same can be said for Microsoft, but at least with
Windows I have had excellent results with MS support online and the
Windows community who as a rule tend to be very helpful and MUCH LESS
condescending than the elite Linux community.

I have seen assholes in both groups.


So I say, take a good look under the rug and see where you will be
going for Linux support and decide for yourself.
I and several of my colleagues did and Linux was not even considered
after seeing the way the community behaves.

Again, weird decision making process.

For the record, InfoWorld gave the Linux community an award for "Best
Support in the industry". That was back in 1998, and the situation has
improved since then.

One could look at a Linux distribution as a single product, but a more
accurate point of view is that a Linux distribution is thousands of
products shipped and distributed on a single DVD or package of CD-ROMS.

Look at the hundreds of patches and security fixes that get the system
upgraded. Linux distributors are very good at getting these updates to
their customers, those who don't tend to lose customers, or don't see
much revenue.

There are many of those products shipped with Linux distributions that
are also available in commercial versions. Often the commercial
versions include additional support, more features, and special "paying
customers only" plug-ins and tools.

One very simple but dramatic example is Eclipse. Eclipse is included
on most Linux distributions and pretty darn good all by itself. If you
want to put up some cash, you can get WebSphere 5.x or WebSphere 6.x
and get Eclipse with a fully functional J2EE and a number of other
great tools and features. For some bigger bucks you can add WMQ,
Workflow (Orchestrator) and other features.

"Peter Lee" wrote in news:1117396533.813406.109150
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

So I say, take a good look under the rug and see where you will be
going for Linux support and decide for yourself.
I and several of my colleagues did and Linux was not even considered
after seeing the way the community behaves.
Peter Lee

Peter,

You did indeed crosspost to:
comp.os.linux.advocacy
alt.os.linu
comp.os.linux.mis
rec.audio.pro

This means that you are not really looking for genuine and sincere help
but are more or less just sounding off. The people that can help you will
not respond favorably to someone like this, who would?

2nd, you get what you pay for is what they say. Linux is free, download
the OS for free, install it, install all of the programs, all free,
except for any commercial ones that you purchase and install. Since this
is for free, nobody is getting paid for their time so they are not
sitting around, waiting to help you. Yes, you have to ask for help and do
some work if this is what you do.

Windows is a commercial product, you pay plenty for it, you pay through
the nose for everything you get. Just look at how much it costs to
purchase a Windows web server, anywhere from $999 to $3,999. Wow! And
that is only for Windows Server 2003. Yep, paying that much for something
entitles you to support. Call them up and they will help you, "for free".
Mac OS is also a commercial product, same rules apply. So take your pick,
either get what you need for free and then learn how to use it, ask for
help, put up with whatever you have to go through to get the help you
need, or just pay for it and get your "free support". The choice is
yours, nobody is making you do it.

I am not calling you any names or anything and am treating you civilly
just like I would anyone else, even though the tone of your post and the
newsgroups that you cross-posted to indicate otherwise. Good luck Peter.

--
~Ohmster
ohmster at newsguy dot com

"andy" wrote in message
ups.com...
This is a very odd post to rec.audio.pro. It is also factually
incorrect concerning costs and supports for servers (assuming normal
servers looking after web, mail, print, backup, etc... and not user
programs) but this is hardly the appropriate forum for debate. Given
that very few people on this mail group will be using linux why the
protest? I probably should have ignored it but why was it posted?


Apologies to rec.audio.pro

It would appear that the individual who began the thread in your forum is
suffering from some sort of psychological abnormality and/or has a vendetta
against Linux or certain people who support it. It seems that this person
has been posting similar anti-linux messages with, as you have noted,
certain liberties being taken in regards to the truthfulness of his
messages, which naturally incite a number of people in each group to
respond.

Some of those people take considerable umbrage at his liberties with facts
and their responses may include a bit of outrage at his oft-repeated antics.
His inclusion of at least one non-linux group in each cross-posting would
seem to be a premeditated attempt to expose non-linux groups to the
controversy that inevitably arises.

It is, unfortunately, not possible to censor his diatribes from those groups
who have no interest.

We regret the disturbance to your group.

Hopefully, the majority of those who respond to his posts will be
considerate of those unrelated groups and not include them in follow-ups. It
is evident that even non-linux users are able to discern the truth of his
material, and responses in those groups are unnecessary. His own behavior is
sufficient to characterize his aberration.

Peter Lee poked his little head through the XP firewall and said:

The biggest problem with using Linux is that the support structure is
terrible. Most distribution's if purchased, not copied, come with basic
install support at basic video resolution and little, if any,
applications support.

Does anybody even read this ****?

Hooooooo


haaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh

andy poked his little head through the XP firewall and said:

This is a very odd post to rec.audio.pro. It is also factually
incorrect concerning costs and supports for servers (assuming normal
servers looking after web, mail, print, backup, etc... and not user
programs) but this is hardly the appropriate forum for debate. Given
that very few people on this mail group will be using linux why the
protest? I probably should have ignored it but why was it posted?

Troll by a particulary obsessed and dogged individual. This individual
apparently likes audio apps, and likes using them as a fulcrum to spew
idiocy to our newsgroup, to yours, and to others such as
alt.locksmithing.

--
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

On Sun, 29 May 2005 13:32:43 -0700, andy wrote:

This is a very odd post to rec.audio.pro. It is also factually
incorrect concerning costs and supports for servers (assuming normal
servers looking after web, mail, print, backup, etc... and not user
programs) but this is hardly the appropriate forum for debate. Given
that very few people on this mail group will be using linux why the
protest? I probably should have ignored it but why was it posted?

To troll. It's a common tactic of the stupid idiots who love to disrupt
COLA to cross-post their rubbish to some unrelated group and cause the
maximum annoyance possible.

--
Kier

On 2005-05-29, Peter Lee wrote:
The biggest problem with using Linux is that the support structure is
terrible. Most distribution's if purchased, not copied, come with basic
install support at basic video resolution and little, if any,
applications support.

So?

The nifty thing about Linux is that you can download and
evaluate it for free. You can even download single CD distributions
that won't even require you to install anything.

You can see if all of your hardware is supported and see if
the basic apps are up to your requirements.

So there's really no reason to listen to the prattling of either
side of this particular argument. You can just try it out for yourself
if you're so inclined.

[deletia]

Can't do that with Windows. Can't do that with MacOS either.

--
The best OS in the world is ultimately useless |||
if it is controlled by a Tramiel, Jobs or Gates. / | \

Peter Lee wrote:

The biggest problem with using Linux

*plonk*

Linønut wrote:

Peter Lee (flatfish) wrote:

The biggest problem with using Linux is that the support structure is
terrible. Most distribution's if purchased, not copied, come with basic
install support at basic video resolution and little, if any,
applications support.

Does anybody even read this ****?

Read Flatfish, posting the same pathetic troll for the upteenth time
from a new google account? I think not.

On Sun, 29 May 2005 21:05:05 -0500, Linønutlinønut wrote:

Peter Lee poked his little head through the XP firewall and said:

The biggest problem with using Linux is that the support structure is
terrible. Most distribution's if purchased, not copied, come with basic
install support at basic video resolution and little, if any,
applications support.

Does anybody even read this ****?

Not me. As soon as I see that it's posted through Google to a list of
groups that includes *audio* and *windows*, I know who's doing it. I
ignore the original and go straight to the replies. Sometimes I ignore
the thread altogether.

I have to believe that anyone taking the time to compose serious replies
to this moron is relatively new to COLA. Either that or they're
impressively dedicated to neutralizing the FUD he spreads. I don't have
that kind of dedication, myself.

On Sun, 29 May 2005 12:55:33 -0700, Peter Lee wrote:

The biggest problem with using Linux is that the support structure is
terrible.

Well... then I guess you won't be getting any questions you ask answered
here.

*plonk*

--
Life is short, but wide. -KV

Peter Lee wrote:
The biggest problem with Linux is that

it doesn't go wrong often enough for technical staff to make a decent living
from providing user support.

--
Mike

andy wrote:
This is a very odd post to rec.audio.pro. It is also factually
incorrect concerning costs and supports for servers (assuming normal
servers looking after web, mail, print, backup, etc... and not user
programs) but this is hardly the appropriate forum for debate. Given
that very few people on this mail group will be using linux why the
protest? I probably should have ignored it but why was it posted?


cross-posting removed.

Hi Andy,
It was posted by a troll, in order to get you to respond. Check the
headers for weirdly non-associated groups in the cross postings - such
as linux groups crossed with drugs, abortion, flowers, locksmithing etc.
groups. Their trick is to cause a cross-flow - it may be some odd sexual
thing - I don't know. But one thing is for certain; Plonk them and don't
respond.

Michael

--
RLU #352695
35.14N-101.50W
GPG-1024D/01774F35