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#1
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Best overall CD Player
I am entirely new to this newsgroup so please make allowances in that
because I need your advice rather quickly I have not had time to read through and familiarise myself with any rules or indeed your style of questions allowed. As you will see below, I am currently being allow to audition a Quad 99 CD Player and have to give it back tomorrow so hence the hurry. I am a professional musician and an enthusiast, having just converted my double garage into an IT/Music Listening Room. I then decided my old Rotel 685BX CD Player needs replacing. Up to recently I did not feel the need until several of my friends bought a Naim CDX2 CD Player and I having heard it I wanted one straight away. I was simply knocked out by the presence and clarity of the sound it helped to produce, (or did it), and indeed I can only describe the silence between the notes as a "black hole". Since then someone else has said I should get an Audio Research, (or was it Musical Fidelity), and then I found a Quad 99 CD Player in my local Hi Fi shop which does not do a lot of high end stuff except for Quad. I then looked at the reviews for the Quad 99 and they all seemed to say that it was the best CD Player some of them had heard, (or words to that effect). They came across as very knowledgeable and sincere in their views in that, though they did express some minor faults with the unit and had tried most other CD players, they had not expected the Quad to offer any challenge to them but were astounded at what they heard. Those that had tried several of the big names said that this player was half as good again, some praise indeed. Now I know each individual has his or her preference for a particular sound so reviews are only a guide etc., but still there is usually a consensus of opinion that can be very useful when choosing a system. One of my Naim owner friends said when he heard that the Quad 99 was only £1000 that you more or less got what you paid for and that in simply could not be as good as his £2500 Naim CDX2, so where do you go from here. I have now got a Quad 99 CD player on a brief trial and I have accepted the advice not to use the built in pre-amp which is not good but to channel it directly to a power amp. I have therefore fed it into my old Musical Fidelity MVT and thence to my Meridan M3's Active Speakers and I am currently evaluating the result. I have had some astonishing comments in another Newsgroup that the CD Player does not affect the sound, I simply cannot believe that as I heard the Naim with my own ears and it was wonderful. I have had others say spend the money on CD's and also to look to the DAC part of it which is the part that makes the difference and I am afraid that is beyond my technical expertise to decide. One person said go for a Marantz Professional player that has other facilities not available on the so called hi end players but I have never rated Marantz an one of the big boys in hi end audio, correct me. I am now more confused than ever and yet I want to install a really superior system in my dedicated listening room that is worthy of a classical music lover, I would appreciate any advice given with gratitude. I would greatly appreciate a little guidance from some other Audiophiles out there with my choice of CD Player. -- Derrick Fawsitt |
#2
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"Derrick Fawsitt" wrote in message
... snip I am now more confused than ever and yet I want to install a really superior system in my dedicated listening room that is worthy of a classical music lover, I would appreciate any advice given with gratitude. My advice is simple. Play it the way you normally would (I assume through the preamp). If you like it as much as you did the Naim, buy it. If not, look for a used Naim. You have to live with it, and you are the ultimate judge. Nobody else can (or should) decide for you. Discount your friend's advice: sometimes you do and sometimes you don't get what you pay for. |
#3
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"Derrick Fawsitt" wrote in message
... I am a professional musician and an enthusiast, having just converted my double garage into an IT/Music Listening Room. I then decided my old Rotel 685BX CD Player needs replacing. Up to recently I did not feel the need until several of my friends bought a Naim CDX2 CD Player and I having heard it I wanted one straight away. I was simply knocked out by the presence and clarity of the sound it helped to produce, (or did it), and indeed I can only describe the silence between the notes as a "black hole". Just to clarify matters, how do you "listen" to a CD player? Do you mean that you listened to your friend's system, containing a Naim CDX2, and it sounded wonderful? Or did they bring it to your house and you swapped it with the Rotel? I'm asking these questions because the difference in sound quality between CD players is generally so slight that it's a major effort to hear it at all. If you were "knocked out" by someone else's system, chances are something other than the CD player was responsible. Norm Strong |
#4
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I can understand your confusion after reading the replies on the
classical music recordings group. At the present time I have a Marantz CD 63SE and a CD 67SE (which I alternate every month) going into a MSB Link D/A converter. I also have stored away Sony and Nakamichi CD players. I have also listened to the Marantz players from their analog outputs. I cannot hear ANY difference in the sound with any of these setups. The Marantz units have better features (remotes etc) but no better sound. The Nakamichi sounds the same as the others but has a very poor remote control as far as selection of tracks is concerned. The Sony and Nakamichi units don't have digital outputs which is why I am not using them. If you are intent on spending money, spend it where it counts - speakers or room treatment. A sub woofer can also make a big improvement. ---MIKE--- In the White Mountains of New Hampshire (44=B0 15' N - Elevation 1580') |
#6
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In message , Harry Lavo
writes "Derrick Fawsitt" wrote in message ... snip I am now more confused than ever and yet I want to install a really superior system in my dedicated listening room that is worthy of a classical music lover, I would appreciate any advice given with gratitude. My advice is simple. Play it the way you normally would (I assume through the preamp). If you like it as much as you did the Naim, buy it. If not, look for a used Naim. You have to live with it, and you are the ultimate judge. Nobody else can (or should) decide for you. Discount your friend's advice: sometimes you do and sometimes you don't get what you pay for. Thank you Harry, I have had my eyes opened here already and its just my first time to post. I am so active with live music and other things that I have never bothered to upgrade my system. There are others out there who are only fractionally as interested in music as I am who would leave me standing with their audio systems. I have now at this stage of my life built this dedicated listening room and I so much want to "get it right" from the start, possibly with the help of some new friends here, thank you again. -- Derrick Fawsitt |
#7
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Derrick Fawsitt wrote:
I am entirely new to this newsgroup so please make allowances in that because I need your advice rather quickly I have not had time to read through and familiarise myself with any rules or indeed your style of questions allowed. As you will see below, I am currently being allow to audition a Quad 99 CD Player and have to give it back tomorrow so hence the hurry. I am a professional musician and an enthusiast, having just converted my double garage into an IT/Music Listening Room. I then decided my old Rotel 685BX CD Player needs replacing. Up to recently I did not feel the need until several of my friends bought a Naim CDX2 CD Player and I having heard it I wanted one straight away. I was simply knocked out by the presence and clarity of the sound it helped to produce, (or did it), and indeed I can only describe the silence between the notes as a "black hole". I have had some astonishing comments in another Newsgroup that the CD Player does not affect the sound, I simply cannot believe that as I heard the Naim with my own ears and it was wonderful. Did you hear the name in a different room, on a different system, than your current one? If so, how do you know the ifferences you heard were due to the CD player? And too , you say you have just set up a new room for your own listening. I would suggest before throwing money at a new CD player, that you determine it's not *room effects* that are influencing your decision. The best way to do this is to borrow one of your friends' CD players and set up a blind comparison. |
#8
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On 22 May 2005 19:33:51 GMT, Derrick Fawsitt
wrote: Finally, I would like an opinion of any of your posters to this NG who own or have heard the Quad 99, (in a system), as to their opinion of it. The Quad is a fine CD player, as are most others these days. You are seriously unlikely to achieve better sound with *any* other player, no matter how exotic in appearance, name badge or price. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#9
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I think Derrick has made up his mind to get a new (expensive) CD player.
He is going to be very disappointed when he finds out it doesn't sound any different (maybe louder but not different) than the one he already has. I have tried many players since my Sony CDP 101 trying to "correct" what the recording and mastering engineers have screwed up. ---MIKE--- In the White Mountains of New Hampshire (44=B0 15' N - Elevation 1580') |
#10
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"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message
... Derrick Fawsitt wrote: I am entirely new to this newsgroup so please make allowances in that because I need your advice rather quickly I have not had time to read through and familiarise myself with any rules or indeed your style of questions allowed. As you will see below, I am currently being allow to audition a Quad 99 CD Player and have to give it back tomorrow so hence the hurry. One must be able to find the "Best" overall CD Player at BestBuy.com. Years ago I distinctly recall that the proprietor of a prominent high end audio shop on the East Side of Manhattan refused auditions of CD players. I wonder why? Anyone here have any guess? |
#11
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In message , ---MIKE---
writes I think Derrick has made up his mind to get a new (expensive) CD player. He is going to be very disappointed when he finds out it doesn't sound any different (maybe louder but not different) than the one he already has. I have tried many players since my Sony CDP 101 trying to "correct" what the recording and mastering engineers have screwed up. ---MIKE--- In the White Mountains of New Hampshire (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580') Mike. No I have had sense, musical values come first with me so I think I have made a sensible decision so here goes. My old Rotel 685, surely you will accept it has by this time not only been superseded by a new generation of players but it would also have had a lot of wear and tear in the last Twenty years or so. Having accepted that, and I trust you will grant me that one, I decided not to buy a Naim CDS 2 (offered me second-hand and mint condition for £2000), but to go for a new Quad99 CP 1 for, (wait for it), £800. It has made a big difference, (believe it or not), to my "sound", (yes it has), and I am now quite satisfied and so is my Bank Manager, (my wife). Hopefully I can now look all my kind friends who helped me here in this NG, straight in the face, at least I hope so. I now hope that someone won't tell me the Quad is "rubbish" because I notice for all the so called good reviews it has got on the net, I only noticed today that What Hi Fi magazine recommends the Cyrus CD8x, you can't win can you? Have a nice day. -- Derrick Fawsitt |
#12
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Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On 22 May 2005 19:33:51 GMT, Derrick Fawsitt wrote: Finally, I would like an opinion of any of your posters to this NG who own or have heard the Quad 99, (in a system), as to their opinion of it. The Quad is a fine CD player, as are most others these days. You are seriously unlikely to achieve better sound with *any* other player, no matter how exotic in appearance, name badge or price. Nonsense. There is considerable variation in the quality of the analog stages, to say nothing of the filtration schemes, digital conversion, tracking, etc. ANYONE can hear the difference between a $100 player and a $3000 player. |
#13
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Derrick Fawsitt wrote:
NG, straight in the face, at least I hope so. I now hope that someone won't tell me the Quad is "rubbish" because I notice for all the so called good reviews it has got on the net, I only noticed today that What Hi Fi magazine recommends the Cyrus CD8x, you can't win can you? Sure you can. All you have to do is ignore all those silly reviews! bob ____________ "Further carefully-conducted blind tests will be necessary if these conclusions are felt to be in error." --Stanley P. Lip****z |
#14
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#15
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The differences of cd players can be heard much better on good
equipment, I think alot of people think they sound alike due to cheap equipment. The above poster is right with the above stated qualification. It's not snake oil, it's obvious. |
#16
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#17
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"Nonsense. There is considerable variation in the quality of the analog
stages, to say nothing of the filtration schemes, digital conversion," Leaving aside the definition of"quality", the real question is do any differences in such as you mention rise above the threshold of audibility on it's effect on the signal, not thearetically but in confirmed listening alone? Can you point us to a body of examples where listening alone reveals these differences in a repeatable controlled context? |
#18
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#19
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#21
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On 26 May 2005 23:55:35 GMT, wrote:
The differences of cd players can be heard much better on good equipment, I think alot of people think they sound alike due to cheap equipment. The above poster is right with the above stated qualification. It's not snake oil, it's obvious. We see this kind of argument mostly from vinylphiles, and while it's intuitively attractive, it doesn't hold water. Check out my system he http://www.lurcher.org/ukra/ Most folks would agree that this is a high quality system, arguably state of the art. As I've previously noted, my cheap Pioneer DV-575A 'universal' player sounds identical to a genuinely 'state of the art' Meridian 588 dedicated CD player at twenty times the price. This comparison exceeds the $300 to $3,000 comment at both ends......... -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#22
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"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
... On 26 May 2005 23:55:35 GMT, wrote: The differences of cd players can be heard much better on good equipment, I think alot of people think they sound alike due to cheap equipment. The above poster is right with the above stated qualification. It's not snake oil, it's obvious. We see this kind of argument mostly from vinylphiles, and while it's intuitively attractive, it doesn't hold water. Check out my system he http://www.lurcher.org/ukra/ Most folks would agree that this is a high quality system, arguably state of the art. As I've previously noted, my cheap Pioneer DV-575A 'universal' player sounds identical to a genuinely 'state of the art' Meridian 588 dedicated CD player at twenty times the price. This comparison exceeds the $300 to $3,000 comment at both ends......... You know Stewart, you've made that claim several times here. Did you DBT it? I don't recall you posting any test results here. I have the DV-578 (the U.S. version) and I agree that it is an exceptional machine for the price. But on SACD and CD I believe I hear clear and consistent differences between it and my two Sony's. So I'm interested....did you DBT it, and if sol, what were the results? |
#23
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On 28 May 2005 15:11:18 GMT, "Harry Lavo" wrote:
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message ... On 26 May 2005 23:55:35 GMT, wrote: The differences of cd players can be heard much better on good equipment, I think alot of people think they sound alike due to cheap equipment. The above poster is right with the above stated qualification. It's not snake oil, it's obvious. We see this kind of argument mostly from vinylphiles, and while it's intuitively attractive, it doesn't hold water. Check out my system he http://www.lurcher.org/ukra/ Most folks would agree that this is a high quality system, arguably state of the art. As I've previously noted, my cheap Pioneer DV-575A 'universal' player sounds identical to a genuinely 'state of the art' Meridian 588 dedicated CD player at twenty times the price. This comparison exceeds the $300 to $3,000 comment at both ends......... You know Stewart, you've made that claim several times here. Did you DBT it? Yes, with three friends. None of us scored better than 13 out of 20, the average was 10.75. The 'worst' score of 9 was put up by the guy who owns the Meridian - he was less than happy! :-) I don't recall you posting any test results here. I have the DV-578 (the U.S. version) and I agree that it is an exceptional machine for the price. But on SACD and CD I believe I hear clear and consistent differences between it and my two Sony's. So I'm interested....did you DBT it, and if sol, what were the results? Four listeners including myself, scored 9, 10, 11 and 13 correct identifications out of 20 level-matched double-blind ABX trials. Switching and refreshments supplied by my long-suffering wife over a session which lasted about four hours in total. Ancillary equipment was my usual Krell/Apogee system, as linked above. This isn't an unusual situation, as I have four CD players scattered around the house, and the only one which is reliably identifiable is an old Denon DCD-825. This has held true for half a dozen very expensive 'audiophile' players which have been brought in, usually for comparison with my trusty Sony CDP-715E. The cheaper Pioneer has now replaced this as the 'mass market' standard machine for these tests, and it should be no surprise to anyone conversant with the technology, that it sounds the same as any other well-engineered player. To be fair, the *video* isn't quite as good as its big brother the DV-868Ai, but that's a whole other matter. One final point - if you were using your sighted 'monadic testing' method for comparison, I'm not surprised that you could 'hear' differences. Using that method, you'd 'hear' differences even if nothing was switched............... -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#24
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"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
... On 28 May 2005 15:11:18 GMT, "Harry Lavo" wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message ... On 26 May 2005 23:55:35 GMT, wrote: The differences of cd players can be heard much better on good equipment, I think alot of people think they sound alike due to cheap equipment. The above poster is right with the above stated qualification. It's not snake oil, it's obvious. We see this kind of argument mostly from vinylphiles, and while it's intuitively attractive, it doesn't hold water. Check out my system he http://www.lurcher.org/ukra/ Most folks would agree that this is a high quality system, arguably state of the art. As I've previously noted, my cheap Pioneer DV-575A 'universal' player sounds identical to a genuinely 'state of the art' Meridian 588 dedicated CD player at twenty times the price. This comparison exceeds the $300 to $3,000 comment at both ends......... You know Stewart, you've made that claim several times here. Did you DBT it? Yes, with three friends. None of us scored better than 13 out of 20, the average was 10.75. The 'worst' score of 9 was put up by the guy who owns the Meridian - he was less than happy! :-) I don't recall you posting any test results here. I have the DV-578 (the U.S. version) and I agree that it is an exceptional machine for the price. But on SACD and CD I believe I hear clear and consistent differences between it and my two Sony's. So I'm interested....did you DBT it, and if sol, what were the results? Four listeners including myself, scored 9, 10, 11 and 13 correct identifications out of 20 level-matched double-blind ABX trials. Switching and refreshments supplied by my long-suffering wife over a session which lasted about four hours in total. Ancillary equipment was my usual Krell/Apogee system, as linked above. Thank you for posting the results. Did you figure what the probabilities were for 43 correct out of 80 trials? Not significant but what where they? Let's see, four hours = 240 minutes. So if you guys worked non-stop somebody did a trial every 3 minutes. Does that sound about right? What source material did you use, and was the switching done via a user controlled switchbox? How did you sync the machines? How/who recorded the info? Was there feedback between listens? Were all listeners practicing audiophiles or did they have any other "training"? This isn't an unusual situation, as I have four CD players scattered around the house, and the only one which is reliably identifiable is an old Denon DCD-825. This has held true for half a dozen very expensive 'audiophile' players which have been brought in, usually for comparison with my trusty Sony CDP-715E. The cheaper Pioneer has now replaced this as the 'mass market' standard machine for these tests, and it should be no surprise to anyone conversant with the technology, that it sounds the same as any other well-engineered player. To be fair, the *video* isn't quite as good as its big brother the DV-868Ai, but that's a whole other matter. One final point - if you were using your sighted 'monadic testing' method for comparison, I'm not surprised that you could 'hear' differences. Using that method, you'd 'hear' differences even if nothing was switched............... Monadic and sighted are two different things, Stewart. I didn't "test" at all Stewart. I simply listened and compared at various times and with various sources. Consider it for the anecdote that it was intended to be. I use all three for different purposes, so there is hardly a reason to test...it wouldn't change a thing. |
#25
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On 1 Jun 2005 00:31:31 GMT, "Harry Lavo" wrote:
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message ... On 28 May 2005 15:11:18 GMT, "Harry Lavo" wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message ... On 26 May 2005 23:55:35 GMT, wrote: The differences of cd players can be heard much better on good equipment, I think alot of people think they sound alike due to cheap equipment. The above poster is right with the above stated qualification. It's not snake oil, it's obvious. We see this kind of argument mostly from vinylphiles, and while it's intuitively attractive, it doesn't hold water. Check out my system he http://www.lurcher.org/ukra/ Most folks would agree that this is a high quality system, arguably state of the art. As I've previously noted, my cheap Pioneer DV-575A 'universal' player sounds identical to a genuinely 'state of the art' Meridian 588 dedicated CD player at twenty times the price. This comparison exceeds the $300 to $3,000 comment at both ends......... You know Stewart, you've made that claim several times here. Did you DBT it? Yes, with three friends. None of us scored better than 13 out of 20, the average was 10.75. The 'worst' score of 9 was put up by the guy who owns the Meridian - he was less than happy! :-) I don't recall you posting any test results here. I have the DV-578 (the U.S. version) and I agree that it is an exceptional machine for the price. But on SACD and CD I believe I hear clear and consistent differences between it and my two Sony's. So I'm interested....did you DBT it, and if sol, what were the results? Four listeners including myself, scored 9, 10, 11 and 13 correct identifications out of 20 level-matched double-blind ABX trials. Switching and refreshments supplied by my long-suffering wife over a session which lasted about four hours in total. Ancillary equipment was my usual Krell/Apogee system, as linked above. Thank you for posting the results. Did you figure what the probabilities were for 43 correct out of 80 trials? Not significant but what where they? Somehow, I knew you'd try that one. That is *not* how statistics works. You don't get to cherry-pick runs within a trial, and you don't get to add up individual scores. Let's see, four hours = 240 minutes. So if you guys worked non-stop somebody did a trial every 3 minutes. Does that sound about right? No, it was a 'panel' system, everyone listening at once. Whenever anyone wanted to refer back to 'A' or 'B', they called for a change and my wife did the switching. We know each other pretty well, so this didn't cause problems. What source material did you use, and was the switching done via a user controlled switchbox? A wide range of music, previously agreed by all parties and condensed onto a three pairs of CD-Rs. Switching was done via a three-channel box fitted with attenuators to match levels. How did you sync the machines? With care! :-) It is a problem with quick-switch CD comparisons, but I include 'tick tracks' on the CD_Rs to simplify this. I've never known two players to drift apart audibly over ten minutes or so. Certainly, the results suggest that this wasn't a problem. How/who recorded the info? My wife proctored the test. We recorded individual scores, she had the master sheet. Was there feedback between listens? No. There was general chat, but scores were not compared until the end of the trial. Were all listeners practicing audiophiles or did they have any other "training"? All experienced audiophiles, ages ranged from mid-30s to 57. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#26
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What is all yours opinion about upgrading cd-players or using a DAC?
I am looking for a good sacd-player: Any ideas? I live in Denmark and during my research for a new cd-player, I have come around a little danish company making both amplifiers and cd-players with a lot of acclaim. http://www.densen.dk/ |
#27
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friendly wrote:
What is all yours opinion about upgrading cd-players or using a DAC? I am looking for a good sacd-player: Any ideas? I live in Denmark and during my research for a new cd-player, I have come around a little danish company making both amplifiers and cd-players with a lot of acclaim. http://www.densen.dk/ Stereophile tested some amp (B100) some time ago and distortion was found to be 0.3% depite claims of 0,01%. then I found the following in their description: The fact is that feedback -no matter what degree- alters the signal and the result is: -dynamics will be compressed, -micro details compensated away, -details smeared, -soundstage altered, -speed slowed down, -transparency smeared and so on. Naturally you will not have these problems with a zero-feedback design. However the basic design must be extremely much better than feedback designs, otherwise the amplifier will not be stable. We are one of the few companies in the world (the only one ?) capable of doing this and the result of this is simply stunning, the combination of a MUCH better basic design and the zero-feedback technology results in: Extreme dynamics, detaillevel, amount of microdetails, perfect soundstage, transfer speed, transparency, and wide open sound Here the logic escapes me. How can a zero feedback design be unstable? Either the claims are unsubstancial and feedback is used, or it doesn't make sense. The whole thing seems to be Quackery IMHO. -- ciao Ban Bordighera, Italy |
#28
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"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
... On 1 Jun 2005 00:31:31 GMT, "Harry Lavo" wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message ... On 28 May 2005 15:11:18 GMT, "Harry Lavo" wrote: "Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message ... On 26 May 2005 23:55:35 GMT, wrote: The differences of cd players can be heard much better on good equipment, I think alot of people think they sound alike due to cheap equipment. The above poster is right with the above stated qualification. It's not snake oil, it's obvious. We see this kind of argument mostly from vinylphiles, and while it's intuitively attractive, it doesn't hold water. Check out my system he http://www.lurcher.org/ukra/ Most folks would agree that this is a high quality system, arguably state of the art. As I've previously noted, my cheap Pioneer DV-575A 'universal' player sounds identical to a genuinely 'state of the art' Meridian 588 dedicated CD player at twenty times the price. This comparison exceeds the $300 to $3,000 comment at both ends......... You know Stewart, you've made that claim several times here. Did you DBT it? Yes, with three friends. None of us scored better than 13 out of 20, the average was 10.75. The 'worst' score of 9 was put up by the guy who owns the Meridian - he was less than happy! :-) I don't recall you posting any test results here. I have the DV-578 (the U.S. version) and I agree that it is an exceptional machine for the price. But on SACD and CD I believe I hear clear and consistent differences between it and my two Sony's. So I'm interested....did you DBT it, and if sol, what were the results? Four listeners including myself, scored 9, 10, 11 and 13 correct identifications out of 20 level-matched double-blind ABX trials. Switching and refreshments supplied by my long-suffering wife over a session which lasted about four hours in total. Ancillary equipment was my usual Krell/Apogee system, as linked above. Thank you for posting the results. Did you figure what the probabilities were for 43 correct out of 80 trials? Not significant but what where they? Somehow, I knew you'd try that one. That is *not* how statistics works. You don't get to cherry-pick runs within a trial, and you don't get to add up individual scores. You most certainly can. You may not want to. And I'd rather do monadic among 80 people. But a trial is a trial if you think your "universe" of four people is representative. And you must, or you wouldn't be using their "nulls" as examples. Let's see, four hours = 240 minutes. So if you guys worked non-stop somebody did a trial every 3 minutes. Does that sound about right? No, it was a 'panel' system, everyone listening at once. Whenever anyone wanted to refer back to 'A' or 'B', they called for a change and my wife did the switching. We know each other pretty well, so this didn't cause problems. So let's see, you violated Arny and Nousanine's "rules" twice...you didn't prevent group interaction or observation, and you didn't have individual control of the switching. I rest my case with regard to "amateurism" vs. "professionalism". What source material did you use, and was the switching done via a user controlled switchbox? A wide range of music, previously agreed by all parties and condensed onto a three pairs of CD-Rs. Switching was done via a three-channel box fitted with attenuators to match levels. What kinds of music?. To test what aspects of reproduction? I assumed you used music. But then maybe I should've assumed white noise? I'm sure others here besides me would like to know the specifics so they could match the choices up against their knowledge of the pieces/performances as test vehicles. How did you sync the machines? With care! :-) It is a problem with quick-switch CD comparisons, but I include 'tick tracks' on the CD_Rs to simplify this. I've never known two players to drift apart audibly over ten minutes or so. Certainly, the results suggest that this wasn't a problem. How can the results justify the means? How/who recorded the info? My wife proctored the test. We recorded individual scores, she had the master sheet. How did the box let her know whether X was A or B? Was there feedback between listens? No. There was general chat, but scores were not compared until the end of the trial. An Arny/Nousaine "no-no". Were all listeners practicing audiophiles or did they have any other "training"? All experienced audiophiles, ages ranged from mid-30s to 57. -- Thank you for your response. I look forward to a more detailed description of your test passages. |
#29
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On 3 Jun 2005 00:16:03 GMT, "Ban" wrote:
friendly wrote: What is all yours opinion about upgrading cd-players or using a DAC? I am looking for a good sacd-player: Any ideas? I live in Denmark and during my research for a new cd-player, I have come around a little danish company making both amplifiers and cd-players with a lot of acclaim. http://www.densen.dk/ Stereophile tested some amp (B100) some time ago and distortion was found to be 0.3% depite claims of 0,01%. then I found the following in their description: The fact is that feedback -no matter what degree- alters the signal and the result is: -dynamics will be compressed, -micro details compensated away, -details smeared, -soundstage altered, -speed slowed down, -transparency smeared and so on. Naturally you will not have these problems with a zero-feedback design. However the basic design must be extremely much better than feedback designs, otherwise the amplifier will not be stable. We are one of the few companies in the world (the only one ?) capable of doing this and the result of this is simply stunning, the combination of a MUCH better basic design and the zero-feedback technology results in: Extreme dynamics, detaillevel, amount of microdetails, perfect soundstage, transfer speed, transparency, and wide open sound Here the logic escapes me. How can a zero feedback design be unstable? Either the claims are unsubstancial and feedback is used, or it doesn't make sense. The whole thing seems to be Quackery IMHO. It is indeed quackery, as these technical claims are utter nonsense. If Densen did in fact have the technical expertise they claim, then they wouldn't say that kind of thing. QED............ -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#30
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In message , Stewart Pinkerton
writes The whole thing seems to be Quackery IMHO. It is indeed quackery, as these technical claims are utter nonsense. If Densen did in fact have the technical expertise they claim, then they wouldn't say that kind of thing. QED............ Hi Folks. As the poster who started this thread in the first place, (seems like a long time ago), I have finally updated my system and gone for a Quad CDP2 99 CD Player, a Quad 909 amplifier and pre-amp together with a pair of B & W CDM7 (special edition) speakers and I am "knocked out" by the sound, in fact I envy no one. I now would not change the Quads for any money. However, I would like to know more about my speakers which were bought in the Channel Islands and are a special edition. I am tremendously impressed by them with simply stunning sound and they look good as well. Can anyone tell me their history, especially with reference to the special edition ones I have got. -- Derrick Fawsitt |
#31
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I spent many hours auditioning CD players because I believed my cheap
Kenwood from 7 years ago was probablable way out of date by now. I auditioned the Quad 99 CD along with an Arcam 192, 72, 92, Roksan Kandy and Roksan Caspian MkII, MuFi X-Ray II. The Quad sounded almost the same as the Roksans. The Arcam 192 did seem more detailed than its cheaper brothers and the MuFi sounded different to all of them. In the end I went for the Roksan Caspien. It cost 899 compared to my Kenwood which cost 170. When I got it home I found it sounded almost identical to the Kenwood, only marginally firmer and perhaps slightly less harsh but it really was such a small difference I could have been imagining it to make myself feel better after spending 899. I would fully expect a difference between a 170 7 year old CD and a brand new one at 899 even if the new one was not best of breed. However there was no real difference. The worst thing was it skipped alot of CDs that the Kenwood did not. In general I think all CD players sound the same. You get differences in sound from amps and speakers. When demoing a new CD player take your old one along to see what you are really getting for the money or take the new one home. Also take along some of your most scratched CDs that still play on your old CD player. If you buy CDs second hand then you will probably have some. The last thing you want to have to do is go buying CDs again after you get a new CD player. Finally never buy anything from a HiFi chain named after a collection of hardwood trees because they think nothing of their customers and will try to rip you off. |
#32
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On 12 Jun 2005 16:24:51 GMT, "Earthstick"
wrote: Finally never buy anything from a HiFi chain named after a collection of hardwood trees because they think nothing of their customers and will try to rip you off. That wasn't helpful, because each of those seven oaks would in fact be a softwood tree.......................... :-) -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
#33
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
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Best overall CD Player
On 26 May 2005 23:53:11 GMT, Steven Sullivan wrote:
ANYONE can hear the difference between a $100 player and a $3000 player. True..but how many can prove the difference is real? I've always owned dedicated CD players. My latest is an Arcam CD73T, which replaced an NAD C320BEE. My integrated is an Arcam A65+, which replaced an NAD 7240PE receiver. For kicks, I did an A/B between the Arcam CD and the $80 Sony DVD I've used for years... but never hooked directly to the integrated (I'm *not* an A/V guy... my two-channel does all the heavy lifting). There was a clear difference. And I could recognize the Arcam CD. But it wasn't necesarily "better". Dare I say... any difference may in fact be engineered. I love the A65+... but I'm starting to believe much of the Audiophile scene is held-over beliefs/behaviors from a time when hi-fi really meant spending serious bucks for quality sound. Now we have "quad 24bit ring DACS" and $200 "interconnects" and other such fluff for those that still need to spend money to believe they are hearing improvements in sound quality. Hmmm... have I been hosed on the Arcam? And don't ask about my "interconnects"... I spent $100 on a .5m pair of Kimber Heros... and can't tell a difference there, either. JW -- |
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