Howdy. Looking at MiniDisc and flash based recorders.

Do all MD recorders have mic-preamps on their audio inputs?

I realize some units don't have *any* kind of audio inputs so I'm limiting
this question to portable units that have inputs.

Any concerns I should have about the quality of different MD recorders for
mic recording? (specifically thinking of the analog section - I understand
the data is stored in the same format)

I was considering flash based recorders such as the Creative Nomad Jukebox 3
but all the ones I've looked at don't have mic-pre-amps ... and the idea of
buying another "gizmo" starts to increase the cost of these flash based
recorders beyond my means.

I've looked at the Neuros and Marantz units - waaaaay out of my league.

Thanks,
Chris

C.J.Patten wrote:
Howdy. Looking at MiniDisc and flash based recorders.

Do all MD recorders have mic-preamps on their audio inputs?

I realize some units don't have *any* kind of audio inputs so I'm limiting
this question to portable units that have inputs.

Any concerns I should have about the quality of different MD recorders for
mic recording? (specifically thinking of the analog section - I understand
the data is stored in the same format)

I was considering flash based recorders such as the Creative Nomad Jukebox 3
but all the ones I've looked at don't have mic-pre-amps ... and the idea of
buying another "gizmo" starts to increase the cost of these flash based
recorders beyond my means.

I've looked at the Neuros and Marantz units - waaaaay out of my league.

Thanks,
Chris




you want to be sure you can manually set record level
many consumer MD recorders use auto level setting which makes loud music
quiet and quiet music loud
it really kills the dynamics of the recording
George

OK. I figured they'd all have the ability to disable AGC - I'll be sure to
ask!
Thanks,
Chris


"George Gleason" wrote in message
...
C.J.Patten wrote:
Howdy. Looking at MiniDisc and flash based recorders.

Do all MD recorders have mic-preamps on their audio inputs?

I realize some units don't have *any* kind of audio inputs so I'm
limiting
this question to portable units that have inputs.

Any concerns I should have about the quality of different MD recorders
for
mic recording? (specifically thinking of the analog section - I
understand
the data is stored in the same format)

I was considering flash based recorders such as the Creative Nomad
Jukebox 3
but all the ones I've looked at don't have mic-pre-amps ... and the idea
of
buying another "gizmo" starts to increase the cost of these flash based
recorders beyond my means.

I've looked at the Neuros and Marantz units - waaaaay out of my league.

Thanks,
Chris




you want to be sure you can manually set record level
many consumer MD recorders use auto level setting which makes loud music
quiet and quiet music loud
it really kills the dynamics of the recording
George

"C.J.Patten" wrote in message
...
Howdy. Looking at MiniDisc and flash based recorders.

Do all MD recorders have mic-preamps on their audio inputs?

I realize some units don't have *any* kind of audio inputs so I'm limiting
this question to portable units that have inputs.

Any concerns I should have about the quality of different MD recorders for
mic recording? (specifically thinking of the analog section - I understand
the data is stored in the same format)

I was considering flash based recorders such as the Creative Nomad Jukebox
3
but all the ones I've looked at don't have mic-pre-amps ... and the idea
of
buying another "gizmo" starts to increase the cost of these flash based
recorders beyond my means.

I've looked at the Neuros and Marantz units - waaaaay out of my league.

Thanks,
Chris



All minijack mic inputs suck. Even when they're not getting overloaded by
any relatively high input (record level doesn't prevent it either), they
still typically do more harm than good. If you're stealthing there's not
much choice, and good quality solutions start at around $500, but if you
have the space a Nomad Jukebox 3 and a Behringer MXB1002 is very tough to
beat for even 3x the price. At loud shows a self-powered mic can typically
be plugged straight into the line input and the results are comparable a
basic mixer preamp.

"C.J.Patten" wrote in message
...
Howdy. Looking at MiniDisc and flash based recorders.

Do all MD recorders have mic-preamps on their audio inputs?

I realize some units don't have *any* kind of audio inputs so I'm limiting
this question to portable units that have inputs.

If you're going down this route, you need to make sure that you can change
the mic-preamp gain, on the fly, without putting the recorder into Pause.
My earlier Panasonic MD can not do this, but my Sony NH900 is fine, and the
gain can also be controlled via the remote control - back illuminated if
necessary. However, all Sony Hi-MD units, as far as I know, default to AGC
recording, so getting into manual recording mode can be a pain. (Not the
sort of button pressing that you might want to do in a stealth situation...)
I personally can't comment on the sound quality of the electret mic / NH900
pre-amp combo that I use, except that I have been congratulated on the
clarity of some of my (PCM mode) recordings taken on the NH900.
So far, I haven't exposed my system to rock concerts, but I have recorded
journeys on the London Underground, and the system seemed to cope with the
high peak sound levels.
--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm

"Zigakly" writes:

"C.J.Patten" wrote in message
...
Howdy. Looking at MiniDisc and flash based recorders.

Do all MD recorders have mic-preamps on their audio inputs?

I realize some units don't have *any* kind of audio inputs so I'm limiting
this question to portable units that have inputs.

Any concerns I should have about the quality of different MD recorders for
mic recording? (specifically thinking of the analog section - I understand
the data is stored in the same format)

I was considering flash based recorders such as the Creative Nomad Jukebox
3
but all the ones I've looked at don't have mic-pre-amps ... and the idea
of
buying another "gizmo" starts to increase the cost of these flash based
recorders beyond my means.

I've looked at the Neuros and Marantz units - waaaaay out of my league.

Thanks,
Chris



All minijack mic inputs suck. Even when they're not getting overloaded by
any relatively high input (record level doesn't prevent it either), they
still typically do more harm than good. If you're stealthing there's not
much choice, and good quality solutions start at around $500, but if you
have the space a Nomad Jukebox 3 and a Behringer MXB1002 is very tough to
beat for even 3x the price. At loud shows a self-powered mic can typically
be plugged straight into the line input and the results are comparable a
basic mixer preamp.

Can you say the specific problems with the mic premaps? Are they too noisy?
Do they distort somehow? Do they overload (not sure what this means)? I seem
to get OK results using a Sony HiMD model 800 setting "mic gain" to low, and
setting "rec level" to manual. I'm running AT853 and Sennheiser MKE2. I'm
taping moderately loud rock/folk music (from the audience). I am *not* using
plug in power. Instead I have a separate (self-made) power module that powers
the mics ("three wire" powering, running the FET as a source follower).

One thing I have noticed is that there appears to be some kind of
"compression" effect going on, but I can't identify it exactly. The mic and
line in on loud signals and they somehow sound a bit different. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Richard

"C.J.Patten" wrote ...
Howdy. Looking at MiniDisc and flash based recorders.

Do all MD recorders have mic-preamps on their audio inputs?

I realize some units don't have *any* kind of audio inputs so I'm limiting
this question to portable units that have inputs.

Any concerns I should have about the quality of different MD recorders for
mic recording? (specifically thinking of the analog section - I understand
the data is stored in the same format)

I was considering flash based recorders such as the Creative Nomad Jukebox
3
but all the ones I've looked at don't have mic-pre-amps ... and the idea
of
buying another "gizmo" starts to increase the cost of these flash based
recorders beyond my means.

Highly recommended: http://www.minidisc.org/uploader_table.html
* "Minidisc.org is devoted primarily to Minidisc equipment and
* accessories. However, a considerable number of visitors are
* under the misconception that Minidisc equipment can be used
* for recording live audio material and subsequently uploading
* this audio easily onto a computer. This is unfortunately not the case;...

And then just the cost of media for a flash card recorder would
exceed the cost of my whole 1-week trip to Spain next month.
(To say nothing of the cost of the machine itself!)

That was enough for me to go back to my HHB DAT recorder

Looked at the Beringer... nice unit (especially at that price) but it's not
a practical option.

I don't "stealth" .. but I do "run and gun"... so "stealth" type gear is
what I'm stuck with.

"All mini-jack mic inputs suck" is a pretty sweeping statement. Can you
provide some sources to back that up?

Looking at this from the opposite direction: are there small, powered stereo
mics that would work well with a line input? Here's a link to a mic I've
used with an MD recorder with excellent results at a rock/jazz gig:
http://tinyurl.com/8tg4f

The Edirol looks like a gorgeous alternative to the MD's - I don't think I
can shell out the greenbacks for it - but it's got 1/8" mic/line ins.
Comments?

C.







"Zigakly" wrote in message
...


All minijack mic inputs suck. Even when they're not getting overloaded by
any relatively high input (record level doesn't prevent it either), they
still typically do more harm than good. If you're stealthing there's not
much choice, and good quality solutions start at around $500, but if you
have the space a Nomad Jukebox 3 and a Behringer MXB1002 is very tough to
beat for even 3x the price. At loud shows a self-powered mic can
typically
be plugged straight into the line input and the results are comparable a
basic mixer preamp.

Malcolm Stewart wrote:

If you're going down this route, you need to make sure that you can change
the mic-preamp gain, on the fly,

All the current generation of Hi-MD recorders allow this.
They forget the setting and that you are in manual, though,
if you stop recording other than by pausing.

If Sony ever relinquishes their "right" to erase my
recordings from the media after I've uploaded them to my
computer I will buy one and fully test the pre-amps.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

"C.J.Patten" wrote:

Howdy. Looking at MiniDisc and flash based recorders.

Do all MD recorders have mic-preamps on their audio inputs?

Usually a mic in and a 'line' in.


I realize some units don't have *any* kind of audio inputs so I'm limiting
this question to portable units that have inputs.

Any concerns I should have about the quality of different MD recorders for
mic recording? (specifically thinking of the analog section - I understand
the data is stored in the same format)

MD recorders are consumer items that aren't optimised to professional standards
like 'proper' recording gear of old.

The mic amp will be noisy compared to a pro spec and probably has pretty poor
distortion figures too. Note the other posts regarding bypassing the automatic
gain control too.

The mini-jack connection is an inherently unreliable design, being especially
prone to crackling if the connector is moved. It's also not designed to work
with balanced mics.

Graham

"George Gleason" wrote in message
...
C.J.Patten wrote:
Howdy. Looking at MiniDisc and flash based recorders.

Do all MD recorders have mic-preamps on their audio inputs?

Thanks,
Chris

you want to be sure you can manually set record level
many consumer MD recorders use auto level setting which makes loud music
quiet and quiet music loud
it really kills the dynamics of the recording
George

I assume you're speaking of the decks and not portable units. My portable
MD recorder (MZN-505...around 4 years old I think) has adjustable input
volume as do all the others I've ever had my hands on. I think the auto
level was the default on it, but mine doesn't default back to that once you
change it like the newer ones apparently do from the other responses.

Also....Todd H. over on alt.guitar.bass put together a nice site with
information on recording with a Creative Nomad Jukebox. You can find it
he http://www.toddh.net/music/njb/ Good source of info. There's also a
nice thread on the subject he http://tinyurl.com/ammb7 .

Brent

Pooh Bear wrote:

The mic amp will be noisy compared to a pro spec and probably has pretty poor
distortion figures too.

No measurement has yet been reported regarding this.


Bop
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

wrote

One thing I have noticed is that there appears to be some kind of
"compression" effect going on, but I can't identify it exactly. The mic
and
line in on loud signals and they somehow sound a bit different. Any
ideas?

I may have an answer but I need you to restate the nature of your problem.

Julian

"C.J.Patten" wrote:

Looked at the Beringer... nice unit (especially at that price) but it's not
a practical option.

I don't "stealth" .. but I do "run and gun"... so "stealth" type gear is
what I'm stuck with.

"All mini-jack mic inputs suck" is a pretty sweeping statement. Can you
provide some sources to back that up?

Try 'wiggling' one and listen to the crackles and audio break up !


Looking at this from the opposite direction: are there small, powered stereo
mics that would work well with a line input? Here's a link to a mic I've
used with an MD recorder with excellent results at a rock/jazz gig:
http://tinyurl.com/8tg4f

The Edirol looks like a gorgeous alternative to the MD's - I don't think I
can shell out the greenbacks for it - but it's got 1/8" mic/line ins.
Comments?

It's not 1/8" ;-)

It's 3.5 mm.


Graham

Bob Cain wrote:

Pooh Bear wrote:

The mic amp will be noisy compared to a pro spec and probably has pretty poor
distortion figures too.

No measurement has yet been reported regarding this.

I doubt anyone bothered.

Making a good mic amp is tricky enough. Making one that'll run off a single AA
cell is a non-starter.

Graham

Pooh Bear wrote:
Bob Cain wrote:


Pooh Bear wrote:


The mic amp will be noisy compared to a pro spec and probably has pretty poor
distortion figures too.

No measurement has yet been reported regarding this.


I doubt anyone bothered.

Making a good mic amp is tricky enough. Making one that'll run off a single AA
cell is a non-starter.

However, Sound Devices does a credible job with two AA cells.

wrote in message ...
"Zigakly" writes:

"C.J.Patten" wrote in message
...
Howdy. Looking at MiniDisc and flash based recorders.

Do all MD recorders have mic-preamps on their audio inputs?

I realize some units don't have *any* kind of audio inputs so I'm
limiting
this question to portable units that have inputs.

Any concerns I should have about the quality of different MD recorders
for
mic recording? (specifically thinking of the analog section - I
understand
the data is stored in the same format)

I was considering flash based recorders such as the Creative Nomad
Jukebox
3
but all the ones I've looked at don't have mic-pre-amps ... and the
idea
of
buying another "gizmo" starts to increase the cost of these flash
based
recorders beyond my means.

I've looked at the Neuros and Marantz units - waaaaay out of my
league.

Thanks,
Chris



All minijack mic inputs suck. Even when they're not getting overloaded
by
any relatively high input (record level doesn't prevent it either), they
still typically do more harm than good. If you're stealthing there's
not
much choice, and good quality solutions start at around $500, but if you
have the space a Nomad Jukebox 3 and a Behringer MXB1002 is very tough
to
beat for even 3x the price. At loud shows a self-powered mic can
typically
be plugged straight into the line input and the results are comparable a
basic mixer preamp.

Can you say the specific problems with the mic premaps? Are they too
noisy?
Do they distort somehow? Do they overload (not sure what this means)? I
seem
to get OK results using a Sony HiMD model 800 setting "mic gain" to low,
and
setting "rec level" to manual. I'm running AT853 and Sennheiser MKE2.
I'm
taping moderately loud rock/folk music (from the audience). I am *not*
using
plug in power. Instead I have a separate (self-made) power module that
powers
the mics ("three wire" powering, running the FET as a source follower).

One thing I have noticed is that there appears to be some kind of
"compression" effect going on, but I can't identify it exactly. The mic
and
line in on loud signals and they somehow sound a bit different. Any
ideas?

Thanks,
Richard

The mic preamps are really crappy quality, and they're positioned before the
rec level, designed for dictation. Some recorders have a -20 dB pad, but
with a powered mic that often isn't enough for a loud show, so you have to
use an outboard attenuator, like an inline headphone volume control used
backwards. I've heard recordings done with electret mics like the AT853's
and guitar stomp boxes as preamps, and it was a definite improvement over
the internal mic pre's.

In your case it seems that you're not overloading the preamps, so the signal
is probably not high enough for the line inputs. I would use an MXB1002 or
step up to a Core-Sound Mic2496 and run optical into the HiMD.

"C.J.Patten" wrote in message
...
Looked at the Beringer... nice unit (especially at that price) but it's
not
a practical option.

I don't "stealth" .. but I do "run and gun"... so "stealth" type gear is
what I'm stuck with.

That's going to cost you. The Core-Sound Mic2496 and Nomad Jukebox 3 run
about $650 total and are a little big if you're getting patted down, but
otherwise a perky combo.

"All mini-jack mic inputs suck" is a pretty sweeping statement. Can you
provide some sources to back that up?

Just common sense, good mic preamps deserve good input jacks, and where size
is a concern the preamps are generally comprimised for the sake of
compactness.

Looking at this from the opposite direction: are there small, powered
stereo
mics that would work well with a line input? Here's a link to a mic I've
used with an MD recorder with excellent results at a rock/jazz gig:
http://tinyurl.com/8tg4f

Oh, nearly forgot... Church Audio makes a handy $55 preamp unit that
apparently works well.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=57722062 82
For future reference, here's Church Audio's eBay storefront:
http://stores.ebay.ca/CHURCH-AUDIO

The Edirol looks like a gorgeous alternative to the MD's - I don't think I
can shell out the greenbacks for it - but it's got 1/8" mic/line ins.
Comments?

I imagine Edirol breaks that rule, but I would also expect the preamps would
still fall short of the MXB1002 for the sake of physical size and power
supply minimizing. The MXB1002 pre's are mickey-mouse by pro standards, but
even pre's of that caliber take up space and draw considerable power.

"Zigakly" wrote in message
...

wrote in message ...
"Zigakly" writes:

"C.J.Patten" wrote in message
...
Howdy. Looking at MiniDisc and flash based recorders.

Do all MD recorders have mic-preamps on their audio inputs?

I realize some units don't have *any* kind of audio inputs so I'm
limiting
this question to portable units that have inputs.

Any concerns I should have about the quality of different MD
recorders
for
mic recording? (specifically thinking of the analog section - I
understand
the data is stored in the same format)

I was considering flash based recorders such as the Creative Nomad
Jukebox
3
but all the ones I've looked at don't have mic-pre-amps ... and the
idea
of
buying another "gizmo" starts to increase the cost of these flash
based
recorders beyond my means.

I've looked at the Neuros and Marantz units - waaaaay out of my
league.

Thanks,
Chris



All minijack mic inputs suck. Even when they're not getting
overloaded
by
any relatively high input (record level doesn't prevent it either),
they
still typically do more harm than good. If you're stealthing there's
not
much choice, and good quality solutions start at around $500, but if
you
have the space a Nomad Jukebox 3 and a Behringer MXB1002 is very tough
to
beat for even 3x the price. At loud shows a self-powered mic can
typically
be plugged straight into the line input and the results are comparable
a
basic mixer preamp.

Can you say the specific problems with the mic premaps? Are they too
noisy?
Do they distort somehow? Do they overload (not sure what this means)?
I
seem
to get OK results using a Sony HiMD model 800 setting "mic gain" to low,
and
setting "rec level" to manual. I'm running AT853 and Sennheiser MKE2.
I'm
taping moderately loud rock/folk music (from the audience). I am *not*
using
plug in power. Instead I have a separate (self-made) power module that
powers
the mics ("three wire" powering, running the FET as a source follower).

One thing I have noticed is that there appears to be some kind of
"compression" effect going on, but I can't identify it exactly. The mic
and
line in on loud signals and they somehow sound a bit different. Any
ideas?

Thanks,
Richard

The mic preamps are really crappy quality, and they're positioned before
the
rec level, designed for dictation. Some recorders have a -20 dB pad, but
with a powered mic that often isn't enough for a loud show, so you have to
use an outboard attenuator, like an inline headphone volume control used
backwards. I've heard recordings done with electret mics like the AT853's
and guitar stomp boxes as preamps, and it was a definite improvement over
the internal mic pre's.

In your case it seems that you're not overloading the preamps, so the
signal
is probably not high enough for the line inputs. I would use an MXB1002
or
step up to a Core-Sound Mic2496 and run optical into the HiMD.

Nearly forgot - Church Audio makes a decent minijack preamp for $55:
http://stores.ebay.ca/CHURCH-AUDIO

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...
Bob Cain wrote:

Making a good mic amp is tricky enough. Making one that'll run off a
single AA
cell is a non-starter.

Graham

Surely the MD raises the voltage from the 1.5AA cell to something offering
greater headroom.

--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm

"Zigakly" wrote in message
...

"C.J.Patten" wrote in message
...
Looked at the Beringer... nice unit (especially at that price) but it's
not
a practical option.

I don't "stealth" .. but I do "run and gun"... so "stealth" type gear is
what I'm stuck with.

That's going to cost you. The Core-Sound Mic2496 and Nomad Jukebox 3 run
about $650 total and are a little big if you're getting patted down, but
otherwise a perky combo.

You're killing me. What part of "I don't stealth" are you not getting?

If I understand what CJ does correctly: These bands hire him to videotape
them at gigs and then they can sell the videos at other gigs. They are
valid, legal, out-in-the-open tapings.

It's just, like me, CJ doesn't have the resources nor the man-power to lug
100 pounds of recording equipment to these things. He got to stay versatile
and ready to case the band around.

Not stealth - just compact and versatile. If it were the size of a lunchbox
I'd be fine - as long as I could sling it over my shoulder and chase the
bride and groom.

Tom P.

Pooh Bear wrote:
Bob Cain wrote:


Pooh Bear wrote:


The mic amp will be noisy compared to a pro spec and probably has pretty poor
distortion figures too.

No measurement has yet been reported regarding this.


I doubt anyone bothered.

Making a good mic amp is tricky enough. Making one that'll run off a single AA
cell is a non-starter.

Could this be called "contempt prior to investigation?" :-)


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Bob Cain wrote:

Pooh Bear wrote:
Bob Cain wrote:


Pooh Bear wrote:


The mic amp will be noisy compared to a pro spec and probably has pretty poor
distortion figures too.

No measurement has yet been reported regarding this.


I doubt anyone bothered.

Making a good mic amp is tricky enough. Making one that'll run off a single AA
cell is a non-starter.

Could this be called "contempt prior to investigation?" :-)

More like familiarity with the compromises of consumer designs.

Graham

Malcolm Stewart wrote:
Surely the MD raises the voltage from the 1.5AA cell to something offering
greater headroom.

You think? I don't!, However that said I've never tried to measure it

Perhaps I will when things settle down a bit


--
John F Davis, in Delightful Detroit. WA8YXM(at)arrl(dot)net
"Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business"
Diabetic? http://community.compuserve.com/diabetes

"John in Detroit" wrote in message
news
Malcolm Stewart wrote:
Surely the MD raises the voltage from the 1.5AA cell to something
offering
greater headroom.

You think? I don't!, However that said I've never tried to measure it

Perhaps I will when things settle down a bit


So far, I've measured the "plug-in power" volts at the mic input, and it's
2.31V on my NH900 when running off a nominal 1.2V NiMH cell. What I don't
know is what the general power supply rails are within the NH900.

--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm

"LETS FACE IT, WE CAN PUT A MAN ON THE MOON WHY CAN'T WE JUST MAKE A PREAMP
THAT WORKS WITH EVERYTHING ? WE HAVE"

LOL! (that's from the Church link you sent.

I like that.

I'll keep that one in mind if I go digital recorder (lacking a mic-pre).

Thanks for the links and comments.

C.


"Zigakly" wrote in message
...

Oh, nearly forgot... Church Audio makes a handy $55 preamp unit that
apparently works well.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=57722062 82
For future reference, here's Church Audio's eBay storefront:
http://stores.ebay.ca/CHURCH-AUDIO

The Edirol looks like a gorgeous alternative to the MD's - I don't think
I
can shell out the greenbacks for it - but it's got 1/8" mic/line ins.
Comments?

I imagine Edirol breaks that rule, but I would also expect the preamps
would
still fall short of the MXB1002 for the sake of physical size and power
supply minimizing. The MXB1002 pre's are mickey-mouse by pro standards,
but
even pre's of that caliber take up space and draw considerable power.

Bingo. Tom got it.

In addition to the music gigs, in my other job, I wear a pilot's hat and
size plays a role there too.

If I can stuff all of my audio, video and notebook gear in my overnight bag,
it means I have more *opportunities* to use it that I wouldn't with bulkier
gear. Good example: stock footage of airport traffic.

I'm liking the Church audio mic-pre... inexpensive and portable.

Chris



"Henry Padilla" wrote in message
m...

You're killing me. What part of "I don't stealth" are you not getting?

If I understand what CJ does correctly: These bands hire him to videotape
them at gigs and then they can sell the videos at other gigs. They are
valid, legal, out-in-the-open tapings.

It's just, like me, CJ doesn't have the resources nor the man-power to lug
100 pounds of recording equipment to these things. He got to stay
versatile and ready to case the band around.

Not stealth - just compact and versatile. If it were the size of a
lunchbox I'd be fine - as long as I could sling it over my shoulder and
chase the bride and groom.

Tom P.

I don't "stealth" .. but I do "run and gun"... so "stealth" type gear
is
what I'm stuck with.

That's going to cost you. The Core-Sound Mic2496 and Nomad Jukebox 3
run
about $650 total and are a little big if you're getting patted down, but
otherwise a perky combo.

You're killing me. What part of "I don't stealth" are you not getting?

You're killing yourself. He said he wants stealth-type gear. If he's not
getting patted down, then the marginal bulk of what I suggested doesn't
matter.

If I understand what CJ does correctly: These bands hire him to videotape
them at gigs and then they can sell the videos at other gigs. They are
valid, legal, out-in-the-open tapings.

It's just, like me, CJ doesn't have the resources nor the man-power to lug
100 pounds of recording equipment to these things. He got to stay
versatile
and ready to case the band around.

Not stealth - just compact and versatile. If it were the size of a
lunchbox
I'd be fine - as long as I could sling it over my shoulder and chase the
bride and groom.

Tom P.

I have done exactly the same work as well, not much video, but a ****load of
audio, not to be sold, but work tapes, production demos, promotional demos,
and some were even formally released. One of my production demos-to-be
ended up selling over 10k copies with no radio support.

Video is a bitch because pro-sumer grade DV cams can't sync to outboard
audio gear, so you end up having to sync it in post every 15 minutes or so.
It's too much hassle for me since there's too much that can go wrong and
make it all a waste of time. Case in point, I learned to do FOH sound
myself because I was tired of other techs ****ing up my recordings. With
the NJB3 I can generally have a 2-hour show transfered, tweaked,
track-indexed, and burned to CD all in under one hour. Video takes another
6 hours minimum, and I'm not gonna learn to drive the lamps, though it would
certainly help...

If you don't need full portable (battery power) then give a DBX 386 a day in
court, under $300 used. It's got dual-servo Class A preamps, a good tube
circuit (not a starved plate token circuit), and a good A/D converter with
soft-clipping digital peak limiter, all in a 1RU chassis, not as clean as an
RNP, but not far behind. You've got to go through a coax-optical converter,
but the cheap "grey box" ones test fine with me, and the whole rig could be
put in a tidy custom case that fits in a backpack, just plug in mics and AC,
hit record.

Thanks, you saved me the trouble of measuring it.

However....... 2.31 is still a long way from 9v when it comes to rock
bands and the like

Malcolm Stewart wrote:
"John in Detroit" wrote in message
news
Malcolm Stewart wrote:

Surely the MD raises the voltage from the 1.5AA cell to something

offering

greater headroom.

You think? I don't!, However that said I've never tried to measure it

Perhaps I will when things settle down a bit



So far, I've measured the "plug-in power" volts at the mic input, and it's
2.31V on my NH900 when running off a nominal 1.2V NiMH cell. What I don't
know is what the general power supply rails are within the NH900.


--
John F Davis, in Delightful Detroit. WA8YXM(at)arrl(dot)net
"Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business"
Diabetic? http://community.compuserve.com/diabetes

In article writes:

"LETS FACE IT, WE CAN PUT A MAN ON THE MOON WHY CAN'T WE JUST MAKE A PREAMP
THAT WORKS WITH EVERYTHING ? WE HAVE"

I'm not sure I'd want a Government funded mic preamp that was
purchased from the lowest bidder. I've written gov't specifications
before. g


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

John in Detroit wrote:
Thanks, you saved me the trouble of measuring it.

However....... 2.31 is still a long way from 9v when it comes to rock
bands and the like

But again, John, that 9V won't do you a bit of good if the
peak to peak clip limit of the MD pre input is 2.31V or
less. I think the PIP is always greater on these devices
than the PtoP rails of the pre.

With a mic like the DS70P, for example, which can be powered
by PIP, no battery box will increase max SPL handling. In
general, the maximum voltage that need be used in a battery
box is a bit above the rails of the device input. Having
said that, however, going to larger voltages can potentially
keep the capsule in a more linear region for those rails and
give less distortion for the same output. That is far from
guaranteed.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Bob Cain wrote:

Having said that, however, going to larger voltages
can potentially keep the capsule in a more linear region for those rails
and give less distortion for the same output. That is far from guaranteed.


My point exactly... Bob, My point exactly


--
John F Davis, in Delightful Detroit. WA8YXM(at)arrl(dot)net
"Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business"
Diabetic? http://community.compuserve.com/diabetes

Pooh Bear wrote:

The mic amp will be noisy compared to a pro spec and probably has
pretty poor distortion figures too.

"Bob Cain" wrote:

No measurement has yet been reported regarding this.


I've never tasted pee to confirm it tastes bad either, but I think it's
safe to say that *some* things can probably be assumed without testing.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

Lorin David Schultz wrote:

I've never tasted pee to confirm it tastes bad either, but I think it's
safe to say that *some* things can probably be assumed without testing.

Yeah, just like the inferiority of Chinese mics.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Bob Cain wrote:
Lorin David Schultz wrote:

I've never tasted pee to confirm it tastes bad either, but I think it's
safe to say that *some* things can probably be assumed without testing.

Yeah, just like the inferiority of Chinese mics.

Well, if you believe the stuff in the e-mail spam, there are a lot of
people who like to drink pee. But I don't know anyone that has done a
comparison between the Chinese capsules and the original designs that
liked the Chinese ones better.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."