Today we hear Mr Stewpid Oinkerton's
expected and predictable condemnation of one man's effort to
present some explanations and salient background information about 300B
based SET
amplifiers, their origins in history and the Western Electric saga, and
developments over time,
and their use with mainly horn speakers.

Today I spent an afternoon fitting a new cartridge to a customer's
TT and adjusting his whole system and replacing a 20 year old input tube

in an ARC SP11 preamp.

A range of music was played through the Altec speakers from around 1960,

which have a cellular horn with metal flare and crossed over
to the bass 15" in large reflex boxes, and sensitivity is well over
95 dB/W/M
The preamp feeds an SS opamp based active X-over
and that feeds two pairs of amps in a bi-amped arrangement.
There are McIntosh 70 watt monos powering the the bass,
and 300B SET amps powering the very sensitive horns from 500 Hz and
above.
The power going to the HF horns and the bass speakers was less than
about 0.1 watts to each driver at any time during the afternoon.

The 300B amps were originally bought on E-bay from ValveMark in Perth,
WA,
and they suffered damage in transit, and i was called in to rewire them
entirely
since the wiring quality was terrible, and chokes and caps had sprung
loose
under the chassis.
There were many improvements to be made.
Luckily, whoever had wound the OPTs had done an excellent job.
I ended up with 8 watts at 1% mainly 2H with 6 db of global FB.
These 300B amps sounded fine on my system of 89 dB/W/M.
There was not any great amount of artificial warming of the sound.
No obvious euphony, just detailed music with the fidelity well
preserved.

But used with the Altec horns, 0.1 watts is about 0.9 vrms,
or about 18 dB lower voltage level than 8 watts,
so thd would be about 26 dB lower tahn on my system since thd rise is
lower for the fist few volts of output,
so I reckon thd was less than 0.05% all afternoon, and only present
above 500 Hz.
The SP11 preamp has high NFB, so its thd with its complicated SET
circuitry
between the phono input and line stage output would aslo have been
utterly
negligible.
The McIntosh amps with their high level of NFB
would have produce thd so low it'd have been hard to measure.

Oinkerton goes on to talk about Baxandall cancellation tests
which PA drew our attention to, by way of giving us a link
to Douglas Self's site where Dougie Boy gets stuck into the
alleged muddled thinking of the subjectevists.
I much admire DB for his rather good talk on SS designs,
and no doubt the Baxandall tests tell us something.
But they would tell us nothing that would compel us to retire our
tube amps, especially when used as my customer does
in his system.

I'm sure readers don't need to be reminded of the
anti tube conclusions reached by the anti subjectevists.
So when Oinkerton squeals the same mantra about
SET amps being hogwash, he makes himself look
more like a huge porker of a fool each passing minute.

Here we have a renowned tube hating troll carelesly
condemning somebody trying to present an 'in depth'
article on SE amplifiers as a charlatan and BS artist.
Oinkerton fails to respect the fact that we all have some intelligence,
and we know the difference between outright facts and opinion,
story telling and hard info, theoretical outcomes and practical
outcomes.

My experinces today show quite clearly that SET amps using
300B triodes are a valid way to amplify music signals,
and that Oinkerton's unjustified condemnation, insult, and
ill considered and disrespectful presence here in this group
could only lead us all to view the man as a dull ****wit,
the opposite of what we should be able to expect from homo sapiens.

As the afternoon of mine wore on my customer's system became a little
better mannered
after getting the gain settings optimised as best i could, somewhat
difficult because they were all set so low on the power amps.

Some further rationalisation could and should be done to eliminate
some of the excess gain used and the innaccuracies of the
cross over and speaker response.
Like all the horn based systems I have ever heard, this one sounded a
little honky,
but its not because of the amps.
So maybe I will measure the system with pink noise and my mic and volt
meter
and suggest ways to improve the sound. Unfortunately the very
enthusiastic
owner is dangerous with a soldering iron.....
But I also suggested he buy a very thick and possible rug of about 12' x
10' to
lay on his bare timber floor, and do some wall treatments, since no
matter
what amps he uses, the room of about 20' x 16' is bleedin awful for
hi-fi..

At 5pm I visited a second customer who'd offered to clean a few of my
records
with isoprophyl alcohol diluted with distilled water and BugTussel
enzyme liquid and a gadget
for vacuuming records.
I brought 3 records, and after a clean they sounded vastly better, and
the
replay on a system using dynamic Vienna Acoustic Motzarts of 89 dB/W/M
powered
with SEUL 25 watt power was a real pleasure.
The Handel work of Acis and Galatea recorded in about 1960 had no
perceivable noise.
Guess what was used to capture Joan Sutherland's magical voice?
Tube amps.

I would have to say the "normal" Vienna Acoustics hung the music in
space
without one being aware of amps or speakers far better thann
the Altec speakers managed.

I can only invite Oinkerton to leave the group, he says nothing of
interest,
nothing is new, he relates no informative experiences, he won't build
his illconcieved
SS simple amp presented only on paper to us, and he uses every
opportunity to
rub our faces in dirt, and de-legitimize our existance.

Patrick Turner.

Arny Krueger and a couple of others are thermiophobes as well.

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 17:34:47 GMT, Patrick Turner
wrote:

Today we hear Mr Stewpid Oinkerton's
expected and predictable condemnation of one man's effort to
present some explanations and salient background information about 300B
based SET
amplifiers, their origins in history and the Western Electric saga, and
developments over time,
and their use with mainly horn speakers.

A typical Turner lie, I did no such thing.

I *did* point out that KISS is a crippled crock of ****, doesn't
actually exist in the metal and glass, and is about as far from
'ultrafidelity' as it's possible to get.

I don't notice you addressing any of those points.


Today I spent an afternoon fitting a new cartridge to a customer's
TT and adjusting his whole system and replacing a 20 year old input tube

in an ARC SP11 preamp.

A range of music was played through the Altec speakers from around 1960,
which have a cellular horn with metal flare and crossed over
to the bass 15" in large reflex boxes, and sensitivity is well over 95 dB/W/M
The preamp feeds an SS opamp based active X-over
and that feeds two pairs of amps in a bi-amped arrangement.

I'll avoid the obvious comment here...............

There are McIntosh 70 watt monos powering the the bass,
and 300B SET amps powering the very sensitive horns from 500 Hz and above.
The power going to the HF horns and the bass speakers was less than
about 0.1 watts to each driver at any time during the afternoon.

The 300B amps were originally bought on E-bay from ValveMark in Perth,
WA,
and they suffered damage in transit, and i was called in to rewire them
entirely
since the wiring quality was terrible, and chokes and caps had sprung
loose
under the chassis.
There were many improvements to be made.
Luckily, whoever had wound the OPTs had done an excellent job.
I ended up with 8 watts at 1% mainly 2H with 6 db of global FB.
These 300B amps sounded fine on my system of 89 dB/W/M.
There was not any great amount of artificial warming of the sound.
No obvious euphony, just detailed music with the fidelity well
preserved.

But used with the Altec horns, 0.1 watts is about 0.9 vrms,
or about 18 dB lower voltage level than 8 watts,
so thd would be about 26 dB lower tahn on my system since thd rise is
lower for the fist few volts of output,
so I reckon thd was less than 0.05% all afternoon, and only present
above 500 Hz.
The SP11 preamp has high NFB, so its thd with its complicated SET
circuitry
between the phono input and line stage output would aslo have been
utterly
negligible.
The McIntosh amps with their high level of NFB
would have produce thd so low it'd have been hard to measure.

Hmmmmmm. So, the 300B SET - used only in the highly linear portion of
its output range - somehow magically restores all the horrible damage
caused by SS opamps in the X-over and high NFB in the preamp? Not to
mention the push-pull high-NFB amps used up to 500Hz. Do you *ever*
engage both brain cells before you type?

Oinkerton goes on to talk about Baxandall cancellation tests
which PA drew our attention to, by way of giving us a link
to Douglas Self's site where Dougie Boy gets stuck into the
alleged muddled thinking of the subjectevists.
I much admire DB for his rather good talk on SS designs,
and no doubt the Baxandall tests tell us something.
But they would tell us nothing that would compel us to retire our
tube amps, especially when used as my customer does
in his system.

Indeed, up to a bit under a watt, and ignoring hum, the Baxandall test
wouldn't be a problem to a well-designed 300B SET with decent iron. Of
course, that abortion called KISS might well be another matter - if it
ever achieves existence.

I'm sure readers don't need to be reminded of the
anti tube conclusions reached by the anti subjectevists.
So when Oinkerton squeals the same mantra about
SET amps being hogwash, he makes himself look
more like a huge porker of a fool each passing minute.

Here we have a renowned tube hating troll

Another typical Turner lie. Note that I'm not the one using childish
names in lieu of a substantive argument.

carelesly
condemning somebody trying to present an 'in depth'
article on SE amplifiers as a charlatan and BS artist.

Hardly. What I am doing is pointing out that KISS is a joke, and so is
its 'creator'.

Far from being an 'ultrafidelity' product, it is in fact a
particularly *poor* 300B SET, using driver tubes from Jute's parts bin
rather than ones he knows to be superior, and wilfully using
sub-optimum WE tubes as some kind of attempt to imbue this abortion
with an historical link to the legendary WE movie theater amps of the
'20s and '30s.

The unbelievably verbose 'design' process is also hilarious, as it
simply uses a 'fudge factor' applied to a rudimentary calculation in
order to reach the standard value of drive current that is known to be
appropriate for the 300B.

Oinkerton fails to respect the fact that we all have some intelligence,
and we know the difference between outright facts and opinion,
story telling and hard info, theoretical outcomes and practical
outcomes.

So why are you attacking *me*, and not that puffed-up blowhard Jute?

My experinces today show quite clearly that SET amps using
300B triodes are a valid way to amplify music signals,

Never denied - provided you hardly ever go above 1 watt output. But a
hugely expensive operation, and rather perverse when you could get
even better results from a cheap SS amp like the Linsley Hood.

and that Oinkerton's unjustified condemnation, insult, and
ill considered and disrespectful presence here in this group
could only lead us all to view the man as a dull ****wit,
the opposite of what we should be able to expect from homo sapiens.

Nah, that would better apply to bitter sad losers like you and the
poisonous Jute.

Like all the horn based systems I have ever heard, this one sounded a
little honky,
but its not because of the amps.

Chicken and egg. If you choose a flea-power amp like a 300B SET, then
you need horns.

So maybe I will measure the system with pink noise and my mic and volt
meter
and suggest ways to improve the sound. Unfortunately the very
enthusiastic
owner is dangerous with a soldering iron.....
But I also suggested he buy a very thick and possible rug of about 12' x
10' to
lay on his bare timber floor, and do some wall treatments, since no
matter
what amps he uses, the room of about 20' x 16' is bleedin awful for
hi-fi..

Funny how people will argue black is white over idiocies like zero NFB
and single-ended operation, but totally ignore the bleedin' obvious
flaws in the rest of their systems!

I can only invite Oinkerton to leave the group, he says nothing of
interest,

Seems to get a lot of response...................

nothing is new, he relates no informative experiences, he won't build
his illconcieved
SS simple amp presented only on paper to us,

I leave that to those more interested in the possibilities of
single-ended operation and zero global NFB. I note that, in your
typical dishonest way, you say nothing about KISS being vapourware,
not even yet a complete paper design, let alone real.

and he uses every
opportunity to
rub our faces in dirt, and de-legitimize our existance.

It's not my fault if, when I hold up a mirror, your face is revealed
as dirty, and your sad lonely existence has no legitimacy.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

wrote in message
oups.com...
Arny Krueger and a couple of others are thermiophobes as well.


That's fine. They are entitled to their opinions.
But what are they doing on RAT?
They have no interest in vacuum tube audio and
nothing to contribute to this group.

SP's presence here has a marked negative effect:
He persistently heckles in interesting threads, which
adversely affects the SNR and keeps away interesting
people, who would have something of substance to
bring to the discussion.

One can see exactly the same result on UKRA.
Many have unsubscribed due to his presence.
I know this to be a fact, as I correspond now and
again by e-mail with some of these people, and know
several others, including two people at the BBC,
who have said openly that they would not even consider
subscribing to a group where SP has a presence.

SP is no doubt well informed in matters SS, but
this anti tube crusade which he follows with such passion
has made him into a very twisted, unpleasant person.

RAT is suffering greatly as a result.
Fortunately there are closed groups to which he
is denied access.

Iain.

"Iain M Churches" said:

Arny Krueger and a couple of others are thermiophobes as well.

That's fine. They are entitled to their opinions.
But what are they doing on RAT?
They have no interest in vacuum tube audio and
nothing to contribute to this group.

SP's presence here has a marked negative effect:
He persistently heckles in interesting threads, which
adversely affects the SNR and keeps away interesting
people, who would have something of substance to
bring to the discussion.


There is a very simple solution, which I learned from our beloved Lord
Valve:

"No likee, no clickee!"

I tried to engage Stewart in designing a tube amp according to his
perception of what would be a decent tube amp.
He declined to do so, stating that it has been done to death by
companies like ARC and CJ.

I have no problem with his opinions, I read them and move on.

YMMV.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:59:21 +0300, "Iain M Churches"
wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...
Arny Krueger and a couple of others are thermiophobes as well.

That's fine. They are entitled to their opinions.
But what are they doing on RAT?
They have no interest in vacuum tube audio and
nothing to contribute to this group.

Untrue on both counts, but then tubies are of necessity divorced from
reality.................

SP's presence here has a marked negative effect:
He persistently heckles in interesting threads, which
adversely affects the SNR and keeps away interesting
people, who would have something of substance to
bring to the discussion.

Actually, I'm trying to *improve* the SNR by pointing out just *why*
Jute's KISS has revealed itself as a hopeless crock of ****.

One can see exactly the same result on UKRA.
Many have unsubscribed due to his presence.
I know this to be a fact, as I correspond now and
again by e-mail with some of these people, and know
several others, including two people at the BBC,
who have said openly that they would not even consider
subscribing to a group where SP has a presence.

Bull****. You have lied about this kind of thing on several occasions,
re University and military background checks. Why would this pile of
bull**** smell any different?

SP is no doubt well informed in matters SS, but
this anti tube crusade which he follows with such passion
has made him into a very twisted, unpleasant person.

Clearly, you don't understand plain English. I have nothing against
*well designed* tube amps, of which I agree that your classic Radford
is certainly one, but there is an unbelievable amount of bull**** out
there in tubieland, especially regarding SET amps, and Andre Jute is
one of the loosest arseholes - once one has plowed through the usual
500 lines of turgid purple prose to get to the meat.

RAT is suffering greatly as a result.
Fortunately there are closed groups to which he
is denied access.

It's noticeable that those without a rational argument prefer mutual
admiration societies. The somewhat crude US term 'circle jerk' does
seem appropriate in such cases.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

In article , "Iain M Churches"
wrote:

SP is no doubt well informed in matters SS, but
this anti tube crusade which he follows with such passion
has made him into a very twisted, unpleasant person.

It remains to be proven that SP is as well informed in matters SS as you assume.

SP's problem is not just with tubes, he basically just likes to stir up
trouble, witness his statements that negative feedback doesn't reduce hum
due to power supply ripple, or even distortion for that matter.


Regards,

John Byrns


Surf my web pages at, http://users.rcn.com/jbyrns/

In article , Sander deWaal
wrote:

I tried to engage Stewart in designing a tube amp according to his
perception of what would be a decent tube amp.
He declined to do so, stating that it has been done to death by
companies like ARC and CJ.

The same can equally well be said about SS amplifiers, which have also
been done to death.


Regards,

John Byrns


Surf my web pages at, http://users.rcn.com/jbyrns/

"John Byrns" wrote in message
...
In article , "Iain M Churches"
wrote:

SP is no doubt well informed in matters SS, but
this anti tube crusade which he follows with such passion
has made him into a very twisted, unpleasant person.

It remains to be proven that SP is as well informed in matters SS as you
assume.

I get the impression that he is quite well informed in matters
SS. It is clear that he knows little of valve/tube amplifiers. Today
in a post within this thread, he writes:

"I have nothing against
*well designed* tube amps, of which I agree that your classic Radford
is certainly one,

Erm. I recall a post in which he called the Radford (quote) " a
load of old retro crap". As the amplifier was built for studio and
broadcast, and not sold through retail outlets, there is very little
chance that he could ever have heard, let alone owned one.
So how could he form such an authoritative opinion?

SP's problem is not just with tubes, he basically just likes to stir up
trouble, witness his statements that negative feedback doesn't reduce hum
due to power supply ripple, or even distortion for that matter.


Yes. I think your appraisal of the situation is correct. His is present on
RAT purely to stir. A crocodile in a swimming pool comes to mind:-)


Iain

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:23:38 -0500, (John Byrns) wrote:

In article , "Iain M Churches"
wrote:

SP is no doubt well informed in matters SS, but
this anti tube crusade which he follows with such passion
has made him into a very twisted, unpleasant person.

It remains to be proven that SP is as well informed in matters SS as you assume.

SP's problem is not just with tubes, he basically just likes to stir up
trouble, witness his statements that negative feedback doesn't reduce hum
due to power supply ripple, or even distortion for that matter.

Interesting that your argument is so weak, that you now find the need
to tell lies.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:54:40 +0300, "Iain M Churches"
wrote:


"John Byrns" wrote in message
...
In article , "Iain M Churches"
wrote:

SP is no doubt well informed in matters SS, but
this anti tube crusade which he follows with such passion
has made him into a very twisted, unpleasant person.

It remains to be proven that SP is as well informed in matters SS as you
assume.

I get the impression that he is quite well informed in matters
SS. It is clear that he knows little of valve/tube amplifiers.

I know enough to know that I don't want to waste money one one, that's
true. Remember also that I'm old enough to have been an audiophile
when valves were all we had. As noted previously, my first 'hi-fi' amp
was a single-ended valve jobbie.

Today
in a post within this thread, he writes:

"I have nothing against
*well designed* tube amps, of which I agree that your classic Radford
is certainly one,

Erm. I recall a post in which he called the Radford (quote) " a
load of old retro crap".

More typical lies from the Churches of the poison mind.

As the amplifier was built for studio and
broadcast, and not sold through retail outlets, there is very little
chance that he could ever have heard, let alone owned one.
So how could he form such an authoritative opinion?

SP's problem is not just with tubes, he basically just likes to stir up
trouble, witness his statements that negative feedback doesn't reduce hum
due to power supply ripple, or even distortion for that matter.

Yes. I think your appraisal of the situation is correct. His is present on
RAT purely to stir. A crocodile in a swimming pool comes to mind:-)

More like fish in a barrel............................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:25:31 -0500, (John Byrns) wrote:

In article , Sander deWaal
wrote:

I tried to engage Stewart in designing a tube amp according to his
perception of what would be a decent tube amp.
He declined to do so, stating that it has been done to death by
companies like ARC and CJ.

The same can equally well be said about SS amplifiers, which have also
been done to death.

Indeed they have - all that now remains is reducing the cost while
maintaining the ability to drive tough speaker loads.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...

I tried to engage Stewart in designing a tube amp according to his
perception of what would be a decent tube amp.
He declined to do so, stating that it has been done to death by
companies like ARC and CJ.

Don't expect him to actually *build* anything. He is not a builder
but an armchair critic of what others build. (and that doesn't cost
him any money either) Remember he's a canny Scot:-)

Iain

You mean cheapening. That's where I sincerely hope you fail-no
offense. We don't need more cheap loud bad amplifiers.

On 24 Apr 2005 17:13:36 -0700, wrote:

You mean cheapening.

Semantics. I mean reducing cost without compromising sound quality.
It's called engineering.

That's where I sincerely hope you fail-no
offense. We don't need more cheap loud bad amplifiers.

As ever, you misunderstand. We already have lots of great-sounding
amplifiers, so all we can to to improve them is lower their cost.

However, a slight correction to my original statement. We have 'done
to death' the design of class A and class AB amplifiers, but the
future of audio is in class D, and these still have some way to go.
SOTA is probably the 1kW B&O modules used in the brilliant Lab 5
active speakers.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...

Actually, I'm trying to *improve* the SNR by pointing out just *why*
Jute's KISS has revealed itself as a hopeless crock of ****.

Like many others, Andre makes positive, interesting and very readable
contributions to RAT. It is clear that he takes a great deal of
time and effort with his posts.

"an unbelievably comprehensive web site containing vital gems of
wisdom"
- - Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

Do you have similar reviews of your website or published material?

Iain

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...

Bull****. You have lied about this kind of thing on several occasions,
re University and military background checks. Why would this pile of
bull**** smell any different?

Those who work in human resources (personnel) in large corporations
in the UK can check your CV in a matter of hours.

I have a pic of a tired looking man, approaching
60 dressed in black. He is balding and has a large nose, probably
caused by excessive consumption of alcohol. Do you really look
like that, or am I confusing you with WC Fields?

As regards military backgrounds, a postal operative in a bank
has zero chance of being able to check the service details of any
officer either serving with or recently retired from the British Army.
Restricted information particularly of Part III of the Army Lists from
1951 onwards became even more so at the start of
"The Troubles" in 1969. For a man of your age, you do seem to
be rather naive:-)

It's noticeable that those without a rational argument prefer mutual
admiration societies. The somewhat crude US term 'circle jerk' does
seem appropriate in such cases.

As you are denied access to these groups, you cannot possibly know
of their membership or the subjects discussed. Thank God for small
mercies:-)

Cordially,

Iain

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 22:29:23 +0300, "Iain M Churches"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .

Bull****. You have lied about this kind of thing on several occasions,
re University and military background checks. Why would this pile of
bull**** smell any different?

Those who work in human resources (personnel) in large corporations
in the UK can check your CV in a matter of hours.

No, they can't. You have the weordest ideas about this kind of thing,
Churches. OTOH, you can try to hire me via Spring.com if you like, and
they'll send you one - after informing me.

I have a pic of a tired looking man, approaching
60 dressed in black. He is balding and has a large nose, probably
caused by excessive consumption of alcohol. Do you really look
like that, or am I confusing you with WC Fields?

Approaching 60 and impeccably dressed most often in black, certainly.
However, also dynamic with a full head of brush-cut hair, average size
nose, 6'3", 185 lbs and exercising regularly. I still fence, but my
Judo teaching days are over. Think a younger and taller Paul
Newman.....

Well, it was worth a try! :-)

As regards military backgrounds, a postal operative in a bank
has zero chance of being able to check the service details of any
officer either serving with or recently retired from the British Army.
Restricted information particularly of Part III of the Army Lists from
1951 onwards became even more so at the start of
"The Troubles" in 1969. For a man of your age, you do seem to
be rather naive:-)

I'm actually a systems architect for Group Technology in the world's
fifth biggest financial services group. But more importantly, someone
who still holds a high security clearance from both US and UK
governments, due to working on NATO contracts with Hughes Aircraft
Company and Marconi Space and Defence (among other things, I designed
a significant part of the bombsight for the Harrier - the 'glass eye'
in the nose) shouldn't have much trouble requesting verification of a
*claimed* military background, especially if those claims emanate from
a UK citizen now living in a remote country which borders Russia. The
expression 'setting the dogs on you' springs to mind.

It's noticeable that those without a rational argument prefer mutual
admiration societies. The somewhat crude US term 'circle jerk' does
seem appropriate in such cases.

As you are denied access to these groups, you cannot possibly know
of their membership or the subjects discussed. Thank God for small
mercies:-)

One need only know that they *are* closed groups, to be aware of the
content and the personalities involved.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 22:19:20 +0300, "Iain M Churches"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .

Actually, I'm trying to *improve* the SNR by pointing out just *why*
Jute's KISS has revealed itself as a hopeless crock of ****.

Like many others, Andre makes positive, interesting and very readable
contributions to RAT. It is clear that he takes a great deal of
time and effort with his posts.

He takes a great deal of time and effort to write 500 lines of turgid
prose with about 5 lines of 'engineering' content - and that meagre
content is either wrong, or common knowledge..............

I note that you make no effort to address the fact that KISS is indeed
a hopeless crock of ****.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Stewart Pinkerton wrote a lotta BS about himself:-

Approaching 60 and impeccably dressed most often in black, certainly.
However, also dynamic with a full head of brush-cut hair, average size
nose, 6'3", 185 lbs and exercising regularly. I still fence, but my
Judo teaching days are over. Think a younger and taller Paul
Newman.....

Such a well dressed tube hater, oinkeramus, egofukkintistical
and electronicalesque BS artiste hasn't been seen for years.

Patrick Turner.

in article , Patrick Turner at
wrote on 4/29/05 5:05 AM:



Stewart Pinkerton wrote a lotta BS about himself:-

Approaching 60 and impeccably dressed most often in black, certainly.
However, also dynamic with a full head of brush-cut hair, average size
nose, 6'3", 185 lbs and exercising regularly. I still fence, but my
Judo teaching days are over. Think a younger and taller Paul
Newman.....

Such a well dressed tube hater, oinkeramus, egofukkintistical
and electronicalesque BS artiste hasn't been seen for years.

Patrick Turner.


Short memory?

How about our Andre Malraux, once described as "autonomous in relation to
facts."

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:05:30 GMT, Patrick Turner
wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote a lotta BS about himself:-

Approaching 60 and impeccably dressed most often in black, certainly.
However, also dynamic with a full head of brush-cut hair, average size
nose, 6'3", 185 lbs and exercising regularly. I still fence, but my
Judo teaching days are over. Think a younger and taller Paul
Newman.....

Such a well dressed tube hater, oinkeramus, egofukkintistical
and electronicalesque BS artiste hasn't been seen for years.

Dear me, our resident wearer of baggy shorts and cork-draped Akubras
seems a little touchy today. Did the Fosters truck not deliver?
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

From: Stewart Pinkerton

I note that you make no effort to address the fact that KISS is indeed
a hopeless crock of ****.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering


That being said, why don't you find another litter box to play in?


Jon

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:34:57 -0400, Jon Yaeger
wrote:

From: Stewart Pinkerton

I note that you make no effort to address the fact that KISS is indeed
a hopeless crock of ****.

That being said, why don't you find another litter box to play in?

Are you saying that Jute should be allowed free rein to spew his
bull****, without being debunked? If you merely wish a mutual
admiration society, perhaps you shoulf try one of the closed groups
that Churches prefers, rather than an open forum like RAT.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:34:57 -0400, Jon Yaeger
wrote:

From: Stewart Pinkerton

I note that you make no effort to address the fact that KISS is indeed
a hopeless crock of ****.

That being said, why don't you find another litter box to play in?

Are you saying that Jute should be allowed free rein to spew his
bull****, without being debunked? If you merely wish a mutual
admiration society, perhaps you shoulf try one of the closed groups
that Churches prefers, rather than an open forum like RAT.

Why don't you shut the **** up, since you debunk the use of tubes at every
opportunity
without any justafiable reason.

Patrick Turner.


--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:36:01 GMT, Patrick Turner
wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:34:57 -0400, Jon Yaeger
wrote:

From: Stewart Pinkerton

I note that you make no effort to address the fact that KISS is indeed
a hopeless crock of ****.

That being said, why don't you find another litter box to play in?

Are you saying that Jute should be allowed free rein to spew his
bull****, without being debunked? If you merely wish a mutual
admiration society, perhaps you shoulf try one of the closed groups
that Churches prefers, rather than an open forum like RAT.

Why don't you shut the **** up, since you debunk the use of tubes at every
opportunity
without any justafiable reason.

Why don't *you* just shut the **** up, or at least use less than 300
lines to make a dozen lines of technical content. BTW, my debunking of
tubes is entirely justified by their (lack of) performance.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

From: Stewart Pinkerton
Organization: BT Openworld
Newsgroups: rec.audio.tubes
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 07:34:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Yaeger prefers circle jerks to rational debate

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:34:57 -0400, Jon Yaeger
wrote:

From: Stewart Pinkerton

I note that you make no effort to address the fact that KISS is indeed
a hopeless crock of ****.

That being said, why don't you find another litter box to play in?

Are you saying that Jute should be allowed free rein to spew his
bull****, without being debunked? If you merely wish a mutual
admiration society, perhaps you shoulf try one of the closed groups
that Churches prefers, rather than an open forum like RAT.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

*****

No, I'm not saying that at all. You are.

As far as "rational" debate is concerned . . . what is more rational than my
proposal that you, who: 1) obvious disdains tubes; 2) have nothing of
value to contribute on that particular topic, and 3) seem to get your
jollies goading people who do enjoy tubecraft, simply seek asylum elsewhere?
I mean, what the hell are you doing here except trolling?

As far as circle jerks are concerned, your compulsive onanism is spew enough
for everyone.

Jon

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 12:31:56 -0400, Jon Yaeger
wrote:

I mean, what the hell are you doing here except trolling?

Exposing the bull****. I've nothing against tubes done well, aside
from their sheer expense and pointlessness in hi-fi terms, but Jute is
a psycho with nothing at all to offer but rehashes of other people's
designs. Mind you, in valve technology, it would be difficult to avoid
that particular charge................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Stewpid Oinkerton squealed :-

........ I've nothing against tubes done well, aside
from their sheer expense and pointlessness in hi-fi terms, but Jute is
a psycho with nothing at all to offer but rehashes of other people's
designs. Mind you, in valve technology, it would be difficult to avoid
that particular charge................

But problem is that you are blind to your Stewpidity.

Nothing against tubes, except they are expensive and pointless, and
illegitimate.
No matter what you say your'e slipping arse over head on your own spew.
Then you judge anyone else's attempts as design as being unoriginal,
and something they should feel ashamed about.

By your standards, there is nothing new in motor car design or house
design.

One thing is for sure, there isn't anything of worthwhile design that you
have to offer.

You are a complete moron, and a total ****wit.

Anyone who has had anything to do with you here has come to regret it.

Why do you persist when everyone thinks you don't belong here and when you
are
totally unwanted?

Have a horrible day.

Patrick Turner.

On Sun, 01 May 2005 03:04:01 GMT, Patrick Turner
wrote:

Stewpid Oinkerton squealed :-

As ever, such schoolyard name-calling is a sign of a weak argument.

........ I've nothing against tubes done well, aside
from their sheer expense and pointlessness in hi-fi terms, but Jute is
a psycho with nothing at all to offer but rehashes of other people's
designs. Mind you, in valve technology, it would be difficult to avoid
that particular charge................

But problem is that you are blind to your Stewpidity.

Nothing against tubes, except they are expensive and pointless, and
illegitimate.

Yup - same with horse-drawn carriages. I have nothing against them, I
admire the workmanship, but they don't compete well on cost or
performance terms with automobiles.

No matter what you say your'e slipping arse over head on your own spew.
Then you judge anyone else's attempts as design as being unoriginal,
and something they should feel ashamed about.

It's unlikely that Jute will ever feel ashamed about anything.

By your standards, there is nothing new in motor car design or house
design.

Sure there is, new materials and constructional techniques are being
developed all the time in both industries. No doubt, you are thinking
of the continuing use of internal combustion, even older than valve
technology. There's one essential difference - I.C. engines are being
continually improved in efficiency, and no one raves about engines
that were designed in the 1920s.....................

One thing is for sure, there isn't anything of worthwhile design that you
have to offer.

That's a matter of opinion, you're entitled to yours.

You are a complete moron, and a total ****wit.

Argued with your usual wit and brilliance...........

Anyone who has had anything to do with you here has come to regret it.

Only arseholes like you, Churches and especially Jute. Henry is of
course just having a hissy fit because I exposed his backstabbing,
otherwise he's a fine fellow.

Why do you persist when everyone thinks you don't belong here and when you
are totally unwanted?

Knowing that an arrogant clown like you wants me out of here, makes it
obvious that I should stay. Besides, exposing the utter hilarity of
Jute's 'design' work is something of a solemn duty.

Have a horrible day.

It's May Day Bank Holiday weekend, the weather is great, the barbie is
sizzling, and we're all having a great time! Dive back into a case of
Foster's, you sad, bitter old loser.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Stewpid Oinkerton, the know nothing would be designer agreed
with my summation of his attitude with tubes
which was "Nothing against tubes, except they are expensive and pointless,
and illegitimate"

He replies with :-

Yup - same with horse-drawn carriages. I have nothing against them, I
admire the workmanship, but they don't compete well on cost or
performance terms with automobiles.

You see folks, he has ZERO interest in tube technology,
and is a true TROLL.

Pigs are actually rather bright creatures compared to Oinkerton,
but I have to donate this name to him because he is akin to the pork
salesman who insists he have access to use the mosque or synagogue
as a place to sell pork.

He goes on at length to complain about me, because I dare to say he has no
place here
and while his anti personal tirades continue, and while he has ZERO to
contribute to the technical discussions,
I can only recommend that nobody reply to him ever, when he tricks us into
thinking
he has something to offer.
But not a single living soul could depend on Oinko for the slightest assistance
with any problems
associated with building a tube amp, or designing anything with tubes
that sounds superb.

No doubt he will soon end up as the most killfiled individual
here at r.a.t, and finish up soon without any audience to listen
the drivel he perpetuates, and I wish him well while he spends all his time
talking to himself.

Patrick Turner.

in article , Patrick Turner at
wrote on 5/1/05 11:16 AM:



Stewpid Oinkerton, the know nothing would be designer agreed
with my summation of his attitude with tubes
which was "Nothing against tubes, except they are expensive and pointless,
and illegitimate"

He replies with :-

Yup - same with horse-drawn carriages. I have nothing against them, I
admire the workmanship, but they don't compete well on cost or
performance terms with automobiles.

You see folks, he has ZERO interest in tube technology,
and is a true TROLL.

Pigs are actually rather bright creatures compared to Oinkerton,
but I have to donate this name to him because he is akin to the pork
salesman who insists he have access to use the mosque or synagogue
as a place to sell pork.

He goes on at length to complain about me, because I dare to say he has no
place here
and while his anti personal tirades continue, and while he has ZERO to
contribute to the technical discussions,
I can only recommend that nobody reply to him ever, when he tricks us into
thinking
he has something to offer.
But not a single living soul could depend on Oinko for the slightest
assistance
with any problems
associated with building a tube amp, or designing anything with tubes
that sounds superb.

No doubt he will soon end up as the most killfiled individual
here at r.a.t, and finish up soon without any audience to listen
the drivel he perpetuates, and I wish him well while he spends all his time
talking to himself.

Patrick Turner.


Patrick,

It's absolutely crazy that you haven't killfiled Pinky yet.

I've got my PC set up so the normal OS I boot into has Pinkie, the Good News
man, Brian McCarty, the Chinese Spammer, etc. all blocked.

If I want to see what I've been "missing" I occasionally boot into an OS
that has no one blocked. It's rare that I've missed anything of value.

But enough complaining, already!

J

Jon Yaeger wrote:

in article , Patrick Turner at
wrote on 5/1/05 11:16 AM:



Stewpid Oinkerton, the know nothing would be designer agreed
with my summation of his attitude with tubes
which was "Nothing against tubes, except they are expensive and pointless,
and illegitimate"

He replies with :-

Yup - same with horse-drawn carriages. I have nothing against them, I
admire the workmanship, but they don't compete well on cost or
performance terms with automobiles.

You see folks, he has ZERO interest in tube technology,
and is a true TROLL.

Pigs are actually rather bright creatures compared to Oinkerton,
but I have to donate this name to him because he is akin to the pork
salesman who insists he have access to use the mosque or synagogue
as a place to sell pork.

He goes on at length to complain about me, because I dare to say he has no
place here
and while his anti personal tirades continue, and while he has ZERO to
contribute to the technical discussions,
I can only recommend that nobody reply to him ever, when he tricks us into
thinking
he has something to offer.
But not a single living soul could depend on Oinko for the slightest
assistance
with any problems
associated with building a tube amp, or designing anything with tubes
that sounds superb.

No doubt he will soon end up as the most killfiled individual
here at r.a.t, and finish up soon without any audience to listen
the drivel he perpetuates, and I wish him well while he spends all his time
talking to himself.

Patrick Turner.

Patrick,

It's absolutely crazy that you haven't killfiled Pinky yet.

I don't have a killfile function afaik in netscape 4.7.

Newbies need to know the perils of engaging in postings with Oinkerton.


I've got my PC set up so the normal OS I boot into has Pinkie, the Good News
man, Brian McCarty, the Chinese Spammer, etc. all blocked.

If I want to see what I've been "missing" I occasionally boot into an OS
that has no one blocked. It's rare that I've missed anything of value.

But enough complaining, already!

Anything I write to Oinky about, or anything about or concerning Oinky
will always be derogatory unless he sustains a radical change in his attitude
and shows some genuine respect to us all, and the to the craft in which we are
engaged.

Until then, to avoid ruination of your day, those who know what a complete jerk
Oinky
is, no need to read my posts refering to him.

Patrick Turner.



J

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...

No doubt he will soon end up as the most killfiled individual
here at r.a.t, and finish up soon without any audience to listen
the drivel he perpetuates, and I wish him well while he spends all his
time
talking to himself.

Patrick Turner.


There seem to be a spate of Oinkie jokes in e-mail
circulation. I find it paradoxical that a man who works
so hard to make himself so unpopular should be
so popular:-)))

Iain

Patrick,

It's absolutely crazy that you haven't killfiled Pinky yet.

I don't have a killfile function afaik in netscape 4.7.

Newbies need to know the perils of engaging in postings with Oinkerton

*** Oh no! This is the same "reasoning" that Robert Morein uses to "warn"
newbies on rec.audio.marketplace. He and Brian McCarty have destroyed that
newsgroup.

*** Newbies don't need to be warned! Anyone with an IQ over 60 can see
what is going on. Please focus on something else!





Anything I write to Oinky about, or anything about or concerning Oinky
will always be derogatory unless he sustains a radical change in his attitude
and shows some genuine respect to us all, and the to the craft in which we are
engaged.

Until then, to avoid ruination of your day, those who know what a complete
jerk
Oinky
is, no need to read my posts refering to him.

Patrick Turner.



J

On Sun, 01 May 2005 15:16:03 GMT, Patrick Turner
wrote:

Stewpid Oinkerton, the know nothing would be designer agreed
with my summation of his attitude with tubes
which was "Nothing against tubes, except they are expensive and pointless,
and illegitimate"

He replies with :-

Yup - same with horse-drawn carriages. I have nothing against them, I
admire the workmanship, but they don't compete well on cost or
performance terms with automobiles.

You see folks, he has ZERO interest in tube technology,
and is a true TROLL.

I have interest in it, I'm just not dumb enough to use it, when
better, safer and much cheaper alternatives exist.

Pigs are actually rather bright creatures compared to Oinkerton,
but I have to donate this name to him because he is akin to the pork
salesman who insists he have access to use the mosque or synagogue
as a place to sell pork.

You can't even have an original thought in this regard, can you? That
moronic analogy was spewed up by RAT's resident psycopath Jute, of
whom you are merely a sad and bitter reflection.

No doubt he will soon end up as the most killfiled individual
here at r.a.t, and finish up soon without any audience to listen
the drivel he perpetuates, and I wish him well while he spends all his time
talking to himself.

So why are *you* replying, you sad old dumphukke?
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Mon, 2 May 2005 09:20:51 +0300, "Iain M Churches"
wrote:


"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...

No doubt he will soon end up as the most killfiled individual
here at r.a.t, and finish up soon without any audience to listen
the drivel he perpetuates, and I wish him well while he spends all his
time
talking to himself.

Patrick Turner.


There seem to be a spate of Oinkie jokes in e-mail
circulation. I find it paradoxical that a man who works
so hard to make himself so unpopular should be
so popular:-)))

I find it paradoxical that you have nothing better to do than make up
endless lies. OTOH, you do live in Finland....................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Mon, 02 May 2005 11:53:21 +0200, François Yves Le Gal
wrote:

On Mon, 2 May 2005 09:08:45 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:

I'm just not dumb enough to use it, when
better, safer and much cheaper alternatives exist.

But you're dumb enough to brag about your driving way above speed limits
using a fancy car fitted with a combustion engine, while there are better,
safer and much cheaper means of transportation.

But none so convenient.

You're a troll. Go away.

You're a frog. Hop it.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Knowing that an arrogant clown like you wants me out of here, makes it
obvious that I should stay. Besides, exposing the utter hilarity of
Jute's 'design' work is something of a solemn duty.

You needn't trouble yourself, mate.

Run along now, Stewey. Voy a vi tu yoma lauta . . .

"Jon Yaeger" wrote in message
...

Knowing that an arrogant clown like you wants me out of here, makes it
obvious that I should stay. Besides, exposing the utter hilarity of
Jute's 'design' work is something of a solemn duty.

You needn't trouble yourself, mate.

Run along now, Stewey. Voy a vi tu yoma lauta . . .

Wonderful phonetical Finnish Jon:-)) Where did you
learn that? You might be interested to know that
in these parts Pinkie is knows fondly as
"Apinanperse". Do you know what that means?

Cordially,

Iain