The Crest Xr20 arrived a couple days ago and I couldn't be more
surprised. I was unable to see or demo one of these prior to buying, so
I was a bit uneasy what I was getting. Very nice. What a feel for such
a small console. Beautiful sounding, and great price. I had an Onyx
for about a week which I think sounded very good, but the feel of it
kept getting in my way. I didn't think 60mm faders would bug me much,
but I was clearly wrong. The Onyx faders were very stiff and sometimes
made a crinkled paper sound when sliding, I just hated them. thanks
for all the good advice on this mixer search, it was very helpful. I
have a Crest question concerning the Aux returns. There seem to be no
dedicated Aux returns for effects. I have been using the stereo
channels for returns as well as the group bus ins. Are the Aux inserts
available as simple returns, or are they inserts only (tip send/ring
return)
Is there a way to return so that I can keep all the channels free as
well as the group busses. Stereo cables perhaps? I love the console.

joe myers

wrote in message
oups.com...
The Crest Xr20 arrived a couple days ago and I couldn't be more
surprised. I was unable to see or demo one of these prior to buying, so
I was a bit uneasy what I was getting. Very nice. What a feel for such
a small console. Beautiful sounding, and great price. I had an Onyx
for about a week which I think sounded very good, but the feel of it
kept getting in my way. I didn't think 60mm faders would bug me much,
but I was clearly wrong. The Onyx faders were very stiff and sometimes
made a crinkled paper sound when sliding, I just hated them. thanks
for all the good advice on this mixer search, it was very helpful. I
have a Crest question concerning the Aux returns. There seem to be no
dedicated Aux returns for effects. I have been using the stereo
channels for returns as well as the group bus ins. Are the Aux inserts
available as simple returns, or are they inserts only (tip send/ring
return)
Is there a way to return so that I can keep all the channels free as
well as the group busses. Stereo cables perhaps? I love the console.

Just to be clear, you're trying to route the effects back into the L-R
mains, correct? The aux channels don't do that. Other than the group bus ins
your only other choice is the tape in which can be mixed into the mains.
Unlike many boards there are balanced TRS jacks in addition to the standard
RCA jacks for this.

Personally I like running the effects back through a channel so I can EQ the
effects. You'll also need to do it this way if you want to blend the effects
into the other aux mixes for a little reverb in the monitors for live work.

Sean

I usually use input channels for effects as well. Even in recording,
since I do solo acoustic material or small ensemble I am sure to have
enough inputs channels for processors. I was just curious in case I use
up all 16. I'll just use the group bus ins for effects then. the 1/4
tape in is a nice feature though. This console seems to cover about
everything I could ask for. Hybrid pop up mixer case on the way.
thanks

joe

wrote in message
oups.com...
I usually use input channels for effects as well. Even in recording,
since I do solo acoustic material or small ensemble I am sure to have
enough inputs channels for processors. I was just curious in case I use
up all 16. I'll just use the group bus ins for effects then. the 1/4
tape in is a nice feature though. This console seems to cover about
everything I could ask for. Hybrid pop up mixer case on the way.
thanks

I use mine for recording and live work, and it fits both needs beautifully.
About the only thing I want to change is the routing for the direct outs,
which are post EQ and post fader. There's a patch to make it pre fader, but
I want to make it pre insert so I can take a balanced signal to my MOTU and
keep the insert free. Maybe one of these days I'll open it up and see how
hard it would be to do.

Sean

So it's possible to pick off the signal from the insert for a pre-fader
direct out?
If so, couldn't one just take that signal and patch it directly to a
compressor to obtain a pre fader Mic Pre/Comp/Recorder chain out?

joe

wrote in message
oups.com...
So it's possible to pick off the signal from the insert for a pre-fader
direct out?
If so, couldn't one just take that signal and patch it directly to a
compressor to obtain a pre fader Mic Pre/Comp/Recorder chain out?

Yes, but I'm just anal about using balanced signals in the recording path,
probably needlessly so.

Sean

Well, it is a live console, so I wouldn't expect to run into aux returns
like I have on my Soundtracs Solo. Depends on how many auxes you need, or
more specifically, now many input channels you need. If I'm into a 16 input
situation, obviously there's no way to simply bring the device output back
into a channel, which is where my Soundcraft F1 comes into play. It allows
me to bring subs in from the stage, or returns from the aux, and bring
everything mixed into a stereo pair without really hurting my input
capacity. There's at least going to be one or two open mic channels on the
F1.

One neat little trick you might enjoy is using aux 1/2, which is stereo, and
run a DAT from that. Allows a pretty darned good two mix during a show and
you still have four mono aux sends available.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/
wrote in message
oups.com...
I usually use input channels for effects as well. Even in recording,
since I do solo acoustic material or small ensemble I am sure to have
enough inputs channels for processors. I was just curious in case I use
up all 16. I'll just use the group bus ins for effects then. the 1/4
tape in is a nice feature though. This console seems to cover about
everything I could ask for. Hybrid pop up mixer case on the way.
thanks

joe

About 64 solder points. One of the Crest techs was nice enough to respond
to my statement about the same thing, although I'd probably have a hell of a
time trying to find it in my email archives (welp, not in the 2003 or 2004
archives and I bought the unit in 2001, so that's a year and some change to
dig up). But you can send them an email and they'll give you the points. I
wouldn't suggest doing during the warranty period, though.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/
"Sean Conolly" wrote in message
. ..
wrote in message
oups.com...
I usually use input channels for effects as well. Even in recording,
since I do solo acoustic material or small ensemble I am sure to have
enough inputs channels for processors. I was just curious in case I use
up all 16. I'll just use the group bus ins for effects then. the 1/4
tape in is a nice feature though. This console seems to cover about
everything I could ask for. Hybrid pop up mixer case on the way.
thanks

I use mine for recording and live work, and it fits both needs
beautifully.
About the only thing I want to change is the routing for the direct outs,
which are post EQ and post fader. There's a patch to make it pre fader,
but
I want to make it pre insert so I can take a balanced signal to my MOTU
and
keep the insert free. Maybe one of these days I'll open it up and see how
hard it would be to do.

Sean

In article writes:

About the only thing I want to change is the routing for the direct outs,
which are post EQ and post fader. There's a patch to make it pre fader, but
I want to make it pre insert so I can take a balanced signal to my MOTU and
keep the insert free.

Funny, but it seems that most everyone who has anything negative to
say about the Mackie Onyx complains that the Recording (direct)
outputs are pre-everything and they can't record with EQ or a
compressor. This one even tops the criticism of the short faders.
Mackie needs more people like you on their side, even if you didn't
buy an Onyx.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article znr1113823570k@trad, Mike Rivers wrote:
In article writes:

About the only thing I want to change is the routing for the direct outs,
which are post EQ and post fader. There's a patch to make it pre fader, but
I want to make it pre insert so I can take a balanced signal to my MOTU and
keep the insert free.

Funny, but it seems that most everyone who has anything negative to
say about the Mackie Onyx complains that the Recording (direct)
outputs are pre-everything and they can't record with EQ or a
compressor. This one even tops the criticism of the short faders.
Mackie needs more people like you on their side, even if you didn't
buy an Onyx.

The way it's configured is excellent if your goal is to make a recording
on the side while using the console for PA work.

It's really irritating if you want to use it as a studio desk.

You can't have everything.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
The way it's configured is excellent if your goal is to make a recording
on the side while using the console for PA work.
It's really irritating if you want to use it as a studio desk.

Standard tradeoff between pre and post, right? If the equipment gives
you a switch, that's one more thing to fail or to be set incorrectly; if
it doesn't, the way it's configured is never the way you want it configured.

Theoretically a digital mixer could memorize your preferences for both
mode and let you switch between 'em at the push of a button. Of course,
the downside is that when a digital mixer goes weird it goes VERY weird...




You can't have everything.
--scott

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
In article znr1113823570k@trad, Mike Rivers wrote:
In article
writes:

About the only thing I want to change is the routing for the direct
outs,
which are post EQ and post fader. There's a patch to make it pre fader,
but
I want to make it pre insert so I can take a balanced signal to my MOTU
and
keep the insert free.

Funny, but it seems that most everyone who has anything negative to
say about the Mackie Onyx complains that the Recording (direct)
outputs are pre-everything and they can't record with EQ or a
compressor. This one even tops the criticism of the short faders.
Mackie needs more people like you on their side, even if you didn't
buy an Onyx.

The way it's configured is excellent if your goal is to make a recording
on the side while using the console for PA work.

Maybe, if you don't mind recording the EQ changes that are made on the fly.
When I record a live show the only recording aspect I have time to focus on
is the levels. EQ and compression are going to be tweaked as needed,
especially in a situation where the performers keep switching mics. I'd much
rather deal with the recorded tracks later. I think this is just a matter of
preference in how you like to work.

It's really irritating if you want to use it as a studio desk.

The only good use I found for it is if I want to retrack channels through
the boad. I can apply basic EQ and level changes quickly if I'm starting
with a rough recording (like a live show).

Sean

Sean Conolly wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

The way it's configured is excellent if your goal is to make a recording
on the side while using the console for PA work.

Maybe, if you don't mind recording the EQ changes that are made on the fly.
When I record a live show the only recording aspect I have time to focus on
is the levels. EQ and compression are going to be tweaked as needed,
especially in a situation where the performers keep switching mics. I'd much
rather deal with the recorded tracks later. I think this is just a matter of
preference in how you like to work.

Wait, I thought the firewire output was pre-fader, pre-EQ? I thought it
basically came off the insert point? Is that not the case? If it is post
EQ, that is really bad, yes.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I believe it's the Crest he's refering to?

jm

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Sean Conolly wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

The way it's configured is excellent if your goal is to make a
recording
on the side while using the console for PA work.

Maybe, if you don't mind recording the EQ changes that are made on the
fly.
When I record a live show the only recording aspect I have time to focus
on
is the levels. EQ and compression are going to be tweaked as needed,
especially in a situation where the performers keep switching mics. I'd
much
rather deal with the recorded tracks later. I think this is just a matter
of
preference in how you like to work.

Wait, I thought the firewire output was pre-fader, pre-EQ? I thought it
basically came off the insert point? Is that not the case? If it is post
EQ, that is really bad, yes.

Sorry, I was writing about the direct outs on the Crest, I should have been
more clear. Those are post EQ post fader.

Sean

Just saying post fader works. There is nothing out of line after post fader
in a channel strip so it automatically means it's post EQ. Niggling point,
I know.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http://blogs.salon.com/0004478/
"Sean Conolly" wrote in message
...
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Sean Conolly wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

The way it's configured is excellent if your goal is to make a
recording
on the side while using the console for PA work.

Maybe, if you don't mind recording the EQ changes that are made on the
fly.
When I record a live show the only recording aspect I have time to
focus
on
is the levels. EQ and compression are going to be tweaked as needed,
especially in a situation where the performers keep switching mics. I'd
much
rather deal with the recorded tracks later. I think this is just a
matter
of
preference in how you like to work.

Wait, I thought the firewire output was pre-fader, pre-EQ? I thought it
basically came off the insert point? Is that not the case? If it is
post
EQ, that is really bad, yes.

Sorry, I was writing about the direct outs on the Crest, I should have
been
more clear. Those are post EQ post fader.

Sean