I think the replies to my previous post have missed the point entirely.
If that is due to a poorly-worded post, my apologies. Please let me
clarify.

First of all, I am not here to attack (or defend) Analysis Plus cables
or their marketing statements. I simply would like to know if anyone
has actually taken physical measurements of their cables and, if so,
where I can find those measurements. Second, Audioholics is NOT a
website that supports cable myths. They have, however, tested several
speaker cables using traditional, verifiable measurements. Since
inductance, capacitance and resistance are such measurements, that is
what they have used.

My background and training is not in EE so I cannot competently debate
every single aspect of the role these characteristics play in the
function of interconnects or speaker cables. However, just as I expect
manufacturers to be able to show valid evidence supporting their hype, I
also expect people claiming "measurements don't matter", "save money and
use whatever you want", or "only resistance matters" to be able to show
valid evidence supporting those statements.

Restated:

1. I am asking if anyone knows of a website or individual who has
measured the physical properties of Analysis Plus interconnects or
speaker cables. If you don't know, don't post.

2. I am not here defending A+ or their marketing statements. Whether
you agree or disagree with their claims and statements, I really don't
care. See #1.

3. If your opinion is capacitance, resistance and inductance have no
impact on cable performance, or only one these variables makes any
difference (such as resistance), I might care.....but only if you also
provide evidence supporting your assertion. Otherwise, follow the
instruction in #1 and #2.

4. If all you have is an opinion with nothing to back it up, see #1,
#2, and #3.

Scott wrote:
I think the replies to my previous post have missed the point
entirely.
If that is due to a poorly-worded post, my apologies. Please let
me
clarify.

First of all, I am not here to attack (or defend) Analysis Plus
cables
or their marketing statements. I simply would like to know if anyone

has actually taken physical measurements of their cables and, if so,
where I can find those measurements. Second, Audioholics is NOT a
website that supports cable myths. They have, however, tested
several
speaker cables using traditional, verifiable measurements. Since
inductance, capacitance and resistance are such measurements, that is

what they have used.

My background and training is not in EE so I cannot competently
debate
every single aspect of the role these characteristics play in the
function of interconnects or speaker cables. However, just as I
expect
manufacturers to be able to show valid evidence supporting their
hype, I
also expect people claiming "measurements don't matter", "save money
and
use whatever you want", or "only resistance matters" to be able to
show
valid evidence supporting those statements.

Restated:

1. I am asking if anyone knows of a website or individual who has
measured the physical properties of Analysis Plus interconnects or
speaker cables. If you don't know, don't post.

I am posting now precisely because you asked me not to. That'll teach
you.

You are unlikely to find such a site, because the people interested in
name-brand cables and the people who think measurements matter are very
nearly mutually exclusive. Indeed, the intersection of the two may not
extend much past you.

That said, why don't you e-mail the manufacturer and ask them? They
ought to know.

2. I am not here defending A+ or their marketing statements. Whether

you agree or disagree with their claims and statements, I really
don't
care. See #1.

3. If your opinion is capacitance, resistance and inductance have no
impact on cable performance, or only one these variables makes any
difference (such as resistance), I might care.....but only if you
also
provide evidence supporting your assertion. Otherwise, follow the
instruction in #1 and #2.

4. If all you have is an opinion with nothing to back it up, see #1,

#2, and #3.

Glad to be of help.

bob

Scott wrote:
I think the replies to my previous post have missed the point
entirely. If that is due to a poorly-worded post, my apologies. Please
let me clarify.

First of all, I am not here to attack (or defend) Analysis Plus cables
or their marketing statements. I simply would like to know if anyone
has actually taken physical measurements of their cables and, if so,
where I can find those measurements. Second, Audioholics is NOT a
website that supports cable myths. They have, however, tested several
speaker cables using traditional, verifiable measurements. Since
inductance, capacitance and resistance are such measurements, that is
what they have used.

My background and training is not in EE so I cannot competently debate
every single aspect of the role these characteristics play in the
function of interconnects or speaker cables. However, just as I
expect manufacturers to be able to show valid evidence supporting
their hype, I also expect people claiming "measurements don't
matter", "save money and use whatever you want", or "only resistance
matters" to be able to show valid evidence supporting those
statements.
Restated:

1. I am asking if anyone knows of a website or individual who has
measured the physical properties of Analysis Plus interconnects or
speaker cables. If you don't know, don't post.

2. I am not here defending A+ or their marketing statements. Whether
you agree or disagree with their claims and statements, I really don't
care. See #1.

3. If your opinion is capacitance, resistance and inductance have no
impact on cable performance, or only one these variables makes any
difference (such as resistance), I might care.....but only if you also
provide evidence supporting your assertion. Otherwise, follow the
instruction in #1 and #2.

4. If all you have is an opinion with nothing to back it up, see #1,
#2, and #3.


I gave you a very good address to buy a precise and low-priced meter, which
is able to perform the L and C measurements, the R is trivial and can be
done with a normal multimeter. You do not even refer to this advice, but
complain about people who do not share your viewpoint, even if you
admittingly do not understand much of EE. I am an experienced(25yrs+) audio
engineer, and I have made measurements myself, that is why I advised you to
do it with this meter.
We are not here to do the work for you. If you think the capacitance and
inductance matters, go get some samples of sufficient length, I would
suggest 10m each, and try them out. After you should measure the electric
properties and can compare with the "sound". I told you for me it sounded
identical, but maybe you posess "Golden Ears" and can easily hear
differences, that I couldn't identify.

And last I would also advice you to drop all funny enumeration #1, #2....
you just make a bad figure here in Usenet. We are educated people, no need
to do that, and we can help you with your problems.
--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy

On 15 Apr 2005 00:21:56 GMT, Scott wrote:

I think the replies to my previous post have missed the point entirely.
If that is due to a poorly-worded post, my apologies. Please let me
clarify.

First of all, I am not here to attack (or defend) Analysis Plus cables
or their marketing statements. I simply would like to know if anyone
has actually taken physical measurements of their cables and, if so,
where I can find those measurements. Second, Audioholics is NOT a
website that supports cable myths. They have, however, tested several
speaker cables using traditional, verifiable measurements. Since
inductance, capacitance and resistance are such measurements, that is
what they have used.

Indeed they have, and have you seen any suggestion that cables at the
extreme ends of those measurements affect the *sound* in any way?

My background and training is not in EE so I cannot competently debate
every single aspect of the role these characteristics play in the
function of interconnects or speaker cables. However, just as I expect
manufacturers to be able to show valid evidence supporting their hype, I
also expect people claiming "measurements don't matter", "save money and
use whatever you want", or "only resistance matters" to be able to show
valid evidence supporting those statements.

There is plenty of evidence that, given loop resistance of less than
0.1 ohms for speaker cable, and less than 1nF lumped capacitance for
interconnects, nothing else does matter in any normal audio system.
Since this also gels with what we know about electronics, anyone with
opposing views will have to come up with some solid evidence to back
those views.

0. If you have any *evidence* that these cables have any likelihood of
sounding different from any other nominally competent cable, bring it
on.

Restated:

1. I am asking if anyone knows of a website or individual who has
measured the physical properties of Analysis Plus interconnects or
speaker cables. If you don't know, don't post.

Not those particular cables, but OTOH we have plenty of measurements
of cables which are highly inductive and highly capacitive, e.g. Naim
NACA5 and Alpha-Core 'Goertz' MI. It is known that these 'extreme
outlier' cables make no audible difference in any reasonable domestic
audio system. Are you suggesting that we need to measure *every* cable
to know with a high degree of certainty that all nominally competent
cables sound the same?

2. I am not here defending A+ or their marketing statements. Whether
you agree or disagree with their claims and statements, I really don't
care. See #1.

I really don't care whether you care, I'm simply presenting the facts
of the matter. See #0.

3. If your opinion is capacitance, resistance and inductance have no
impact on cable performance, or only one these variables makes any
difference (such as resistance), I might care.....but only if you also
provide evidence supporting your assertion. Otherwise, follow the
instruction in #1 and #2.

Such is indeed my opinion, given basic competence as noted above, and
the evidence is that not one single person has *ever* been able to
demonstrate otherwise. There has existed for some six years now, a
pool of about $5,000 for anyone who can demonstrate 'cable sound' in a
level-matched double-blind test. Despite much handwaving and wild
asserting by the 'subjectivists', not one single person has even
*attempted* to collect that money. See #0.

4. If all you have is an opinion with nothing to back it up, see #1,
#2, and #3.

No, see #0..........

Perhaps the most important point in making a buying decision on sonic
grounds, is the certain knowledge that *if* a cable does in some
pathological way manage to sound different from standard 'zipcord' of
adequate gauge, then this *must* be a degradation, as it cannot
possibly be an improvement - even if the cable *is* made from solid
single-crystal unobtainium and costs $17,000 a foot.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering