First let me apologize for going back to a topic that's been hit many times
here, but I just can't seem to find a lot of opinions about these mics from
people who've actually used more than one brand, so I return to well of
knowledge with hat in hand...

Basically I'm looking at a pair of clean, neutral sounding small diaphragm
mics for $1000 or less for a pair. Yes I know the Neumann's are more than
that, but they seem to come up used in that range regularly. So between the
NT4, the KM184, the AT4051, and the Peluso, who has been able to compare any
two of these directly?

These will be general purpose mics, but will be used most frequently as drum
overheads. My current mics are MC012's, which work well, but I'm looking for
a little more clarity from the cymbals. I've tried the SM81's but they just
didn't have the highs that I like.

Thanks in advance,
Sean

Sean Conolly wrote:

I'm looking at a pair of clean, neutral sounding small diaphragm
mics for $1000 or less for a pair.

You should also look at a pair of Josephson Series Fours.

With a bit more effort, you might also want to investigate a modified
pair of C460B's ($500-600 for the pair plus $350 for the mods.)

"Kurt Albershardt" wrote in message
...
Sean Conolly wrote:

I'm looking at a pair of clean, neutral sounding small diaphragm
mics for $1000 or less for a pair.

You should also look at a pair of Josephson Series Fours.

I have, but I've read several times that they have they're own (good) sound
but aren't so nuetral. My (dwindling) budget is going to limit me to one
good preamp and one pair of good mics, and I'm looking for something very
clean and clear. Now if I've misunderstood what people say about the
Josephsons, please let me know!

Sean

i've owned pairs of AT4041s, NT5s, C391b's, KM184s, gefell M300s,
AT4051s, Schoeps CMC64s, DPA 4011s, and AKG C480/ck61's, among others.
the DPA are, IMHO, the best of the bunch, with the AKG c481s a close
second, followed by the schoeps, then the AT4051s, then the M300s, and
then the C391b's. i was not fond of the km184s, NT5s, or AT4041s, all
of which are just too bright for me. i do mostly chamber music and
small ensembles. flat and neutral mics are the way to go. the AKG
c481s are often my "go to" mic for all types of acoustic work, and you
can sometimes find them for less than $1000 per pair - the 481s seem to
be the favorite mic of the "taper" crowd, often paired with a sonosax
or grace V3. the "yard sale" at the taper section website is a great
place to find good used SDs.

wrote:
i've owned pairs of AT4041s, NT5s, C391b's, KM184s, gefell M300s,
AT4051s, Schoeps CMC64s, DPA 4011s, and AKG C480/ck61's, among
others.
the DPA are, IMHO, the best of the bunch, with the AKG c481s a close
second, followed by the schoeps, then the AT4051s, then the M300s,
and
then the C391b's. i was not fond of the km184s, NT5s, or AT4041s,
all
of which are just too bright for me. i do mostly chamber music and
small ensembles. flat and neutral mics are the way to go. the AKG
c481s are often my "go to" mic for all types of acoustic work, and
you
can sometimes find them for less than $1000 per pair - the 481s seem
to
be the favorite mic of the "taper" crowd, often paired with a sonosax
or grace V3. the "yard sale" at the taper section website is a great
place to find good used SDs.


Would you be good enough to post a link to the taper section?

Thanks

I've got several pairs:

Schoeps M222/41
Josephson Series Six Cardiods
KM84 with kk83 and kk85 capsules
AKG C460's with JIm Williams mod
Gefell M300

The Schoeps are out of your budget, and Josephson no longer seems to be
making the Series Six stuf (at least in the same mix and match way they
used to). While the modified C460's sound great, if you ever have to
sell them you won't be able to recoup your investment. I would
recommend saving a bit more and buying a pair of the original KM84's.
They sound great, you can still get service, and if you ever have to
sell them you may even make money.

Sean Conolly wrote:

Basically I'm looking at a pair of clean, neutral sounding small diaphragm
mics for $1000 or less for a pair. Yes I know the Neumann's are more than
that, but they seem to come up used in that range regularly. So between the
NT4, the KM184, the AT4051, and the Peluso, who has been able to compare any
two of these directly?

I'd tend to pick the AT4053 (the hypercardioid version of the 4051) or
the Josephson Series Four over the others you list. The KM184 is a little
brighter, though, if you like that. The Josephson doesn't have an omni
capsule as an option, unlike the KM184 and AT4051.

These will be general purpose mics, but will be used most frequently as drum
overheads. My current mics are MC012's, which work well, but I'm looking for
a little more clarity from the cymbals. I've tried the SM81's but they just
didn't have the highs that I like.

The SM81 top end is kind of brittle, although I may have a fix for that at
some point. Give a listen to the KM184, the 4053, and the Josephson... you
should be able to get them all for a week on evaluation.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Sean Conolly wrote:
You should also look at a pair of Josephson Series Fours.

I have, but I've read several times that they have they're own (good) sound
but aren't so nuetral. My (dwindling) budget is going to limit me to one
good preamp and one pair of good mics, and I'm looking for something very
clean and clear. Now if I've misunderstood what people say about the
Josephsons, please let me know!

I would say they are more neutral than the others you list. They are certainly
worth listening to, anyway.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Haolemon wrote:
The Schoeps are out of your budget, and Josephson no longer seems to be
making the Series Six stuf (at least in the same mix and match way they
used to).

They are still making the Series Six stuff, but they aren't pushing it at
all because they are (as usual) backordered by a year or two on the things.
Note that they aren't much cheaper than the Schoeps.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Sean Conolly" wrote in message . ..
First let me apologize for going back to a topic that's been hit many times
here, but I just can't seem to find a lot of opinions about these mics from
people who've actually used more than one brand, so I return to well of
knowledge with hat in hand...

Basically I'm looking at a pair of clean, neutral sounding small diaphragm
mics for $1000 or less for a pair. Yes I know the Neumann's are more than
that, but they seem to come up used in that range regularly. So between the
NT4, the KM184, the AT4051, and the Peluso, who has been able to compare any
two of these directly?

These will be general purpose mics, but will be used most frequently as drum
overheads. My current mics are MC012's, which work well, but I'm looking for
a little more clarity from the cymbals. I've tried the SM81's but they just
didn't have the highs that I like.

Thanks in advance,
Sean


You would probably find more uses for the 184s... but the ATs are some
of my favorites for drum overheads. The 012s that I have used in the past
all seem to have a very smeared sounding top end and weren't really all
that usable for overheads. Given your budget, I'd say the ATs were tops
for the application you're looking at. If you do a lot of acoustic stuff, guitars
and the like, you might want to go the extra dollars for the 184s.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

Put the words "tapers" and "section" together, add a ".com" and you're
there. You'll need to sign up.

wrote:

The AKG c481s are often my "go to" mic for all types of acoustic work, and
you can sometimes find them for less than $1000 per pair

If you're in Europe and if you dare to shop on the net, you can get them
for ¤311+¤155=¤466 each at Thomann. Including 25% swedish VAT (from a
German store). That is ¤745 (ca960USD) for the pair excluding tax. I
did. I like them so far. I also got a pair of omni capsules for them.

See:
http://www.thomann.de/iw_smb_suche.h...HE&iwid=5&SUCH
BEGRIFF=uls&x=12&y=12

Lars


--
lars farm // http://www.farm.se
lars is also a mail-account on the server farm.se
aim: