Anyone know anything about the philosophy of music? Or HTML? I feel
about half-way there.

http://www.ivesonaudio.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

The 6CH6 amp page looks nearly OK to me, the other amp needs writing
up, and I need help with the philosophy, or "performance" page. The
essential thesis is that music is an interactive pursuit, and so the
listener must play an active part in the performance. Somehow the
reproductionists and creationists must both be right, and the
continuing debate between the two is part of the process of music.

Placing this in the context of established thought is hard, I find.

BTW, I think I have decided to replace the input and concertina
stages of the 6CH6 amp with a direct coupled pair of LTP, using a SS
current source under the second LTP. An ECC88 and ECC82 gives me
enough gain for global nfb. What's good for dropping 100V or so at
around 10mA?

cheers, Ian

nice site (for start - in any case better than my page(s) , hehe.........
for dropping-ya mean on dropping 100 V of Ub?
in that case , plain 3W 10K resistor + 47uF will do fine .
I'll try to avoid any form of active stab for that stage


--
.................................................. ........................
Choky
Prodanovic Aleksandar
YU

"don't use force, "don't use force,
use a larger hammer" use a larger tube
- Choky and IST"
- ZM
.................................................. ...........................
"Ian Iveson" wrote in message
k...
Anyone know anything about the philosophy of music? Or HTML? I feel
about half-way there.

http://www.ivesonaudio.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

The 6CH6 amp page looks nearly OK to me, the other amp needs writing
up, and I need help with the philosophy, or "performance" page. The
essential thesis is that music is an interactive pursuit, and so the
listener must play an active part in the performance. Somehow the
reproductionists and creationists must both be right, and the
continuing debate between the two is part of the process of music.

Placing this in the context of established thought is hard, I find.

BTW, I think I have decided to replace the input and concertina
stages of the 6CH6 amp with a direct coupled pair of LTP, using a SS
current source under the second LTP. An ECC88 and ECC82 gives me
enough gain for global nfb. What's good for dropping 100V or so at
around 10mA?

cheers, Ian

"Choky" wrote

nice site (for start - in any case better than my page(s) ,
hehe.........
for dropping-ya mean on dropping 100 V of Ub?
in that case , plain 3W 10K resistor + 47uF will do fine .
I'll try to avoid any form of active stab for that stage

Perhaps lifting would be a better way of putting it. For the second
LTP I want an ss current source that lifts the cathodes about 100V
at about 10mA. Obvious choice would be a pentode but no space or
socket.

Circuit would be something like

http://www.ivesonaudio.pwp.blueyonde...cfb6cH6FB1.GIF

where the triangle is the same output stage as shown in my web
pages.

cheers, Ian

"Ian Iveson" wrote in message
k...
Anyone know anything about the philosophy of music? Or HTML? I feel
about half-way there.

I know my share of HTML. I typed my website in Notepad, anyway.

I can do a bit of philosophizing but for the most part, to me it is old men
arguing in a manner which to the ordinary layman is trancedental thought but
to one in the know, it is just what it is - arguing, a far cry from the true
persuit of knowledge which the sciences bring to someone who seeks it.

Tim

--
"I've got more trophies than Wayne Gretsky and the Pope combined!"
- Homer Simpson
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

Ian Iveson wrote:
Anyone know anything about the philosophy of music? Or HTML? I feel
about half-way there.

http://www.ivesonaudio.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

The 6CH6 amp page looks nearly OK to me, the other amp needs writing
up, and I need help with the philosophy, or "performance" page. The
essential thesis is that music is an interactive pursuit, and so the
listener must play an active part in the performance. Somehow the
reproductionists and creationists must both be right, and the
continuing debate between the two is part of the process of music.

Placing this in the context of established thought is hard, I find.

BTW, I think I have decided to replace the input and concertina
stages of the 6CH6 amp with a direct coupled pair of LTP, using a SS
current source under the second LTP. An ECC88 and ECC82 gives me
enough gain for global nfb. What's good for dropping 100V or so at
around 10mA?

cheers, Ian

I don't understand what you mean by "philosophy" here, but I like the
V-4 amp. When it clips does it make a (*smirk*) triangle wave?

Karl

"Ian Iveson" a écrit dans le message de
news: ...
Anyone know anything about the philosophy of music? Or HTML? I feel
about half-way there.

http://www.ivesonaudio.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

The 6CH6 amp page looks nearly OK to me, the other amp needs writing
up, and I need help with the philosophy, or "performance" page. The
essential thesis is that music is an interactive pursuit, and so the
listener must play an active part in the performance. Somehow the
reproductionists and creationists must both be right, and the
continuing debate between the two is part of the process of music.

WAHOU !!
So beautifull !
So instructing plate curves !


Placing this in the context of established thought is hard, I find.

BTW, I think I have decided to replace the input and concertina
stages of the 6CH6 amp with a direct coupled pair of LTP, using a SS
current source under the second LTP. An ECC88 and ECC82 gives me
enough gain for global nfb. What's good for dropping 100V or so at
around 10mA?

MJE340, TIP50 ?

Yves.

cheers, Ian

Ian Iveson wrote:

Anyone know anything about the philosophy of music? Or HTML? I feel
about half-way there.

http://www.ivesonaudio.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

The 6CH6 amp page looks nearly OK to me, the other amp needs writing
up, and I need help with the philosophy, or "performance" page. The
essential thesis is that music is an interactive pursuit, and so the
listener must play an active part in the performance. Somehow the
reproductionists and creationists must both be right, and the
continuing debate between the two is part of the process of music.

Placing this in the context of established thought is hard, I find.

BTW, I think I have decided to replace the input and concertina
stages of the 6CH6 amp with a direct coupled pair of LTP, using a SS
current source under the second LTP. An ECC88 and ECC82 gives me
enough gain for global nfb. What's good for dropping 100V or so at
around 10mA?

cheers, Ian

Here is a concertina circuit that works very well. By using both
sections
of a 12AU7 paralleled as the concertina this circuit easily drives a
pair of
6L6GC's in ultralinear right up to grid current. The pot in the cathode
can
be adjusted so that even order harmonics are all but eliminated. A DC
NFB connexion from the 12AU7 cathode to the input pentode screen
stabilizes the operating points of both tubes so that while aging they
are
maintained close to optimum conditions.

I built two of these amps around 1960 & used them continuously for
more than 15 years. They are still here & I run them in the lab now
& then for experimental use.

The schema is posted a ABSE. Please excuse the hand drawing,
circa 1960 when I was not as sophisticated!! I've included as well
a note which I had posted with this same circuit some time ago.

Having recommended this circuit I have to admit that all of my more
recent work with PP amps have used a two stage diff amp as a driver.
I also always use a negative supply for the CCS since these days
that kind of thing is easy to do.

Someone suggested a cap across the 2nd stage cathode resistor.
Needless to say, that would defeat the differential function at that
point.

Cheers, John Stewart

"Yves" wrote

WAHOU !!
So beautifull !
So instructing plate curves !

Thanks Yves!

Some day I should do the same set of curves for a PP pair.

MJE340, TIP50 ?

Ah, I have a few MJE340. Also have some mosfets from when I was
tinkering with a mu stage and didn't manage to blow them up as
usual. So little experience or theory of SS I don't know where to go
so I usually just copy stuff. Suppose I should learn...

cheers, Ian

"kseely" wrote
I don't understand what you mean by "philosophy" here, but I like
the
V-4 amp. When it clips does it make a (*smirk*) triangle wave?

Questions like "what is music?" and, if music is a social process,
what is the role of a domestic audio system within that process?
What, to put it simply, are my amplifiers for?

I wonder if I can introduce the word "orthogonal" to the vocabulary
of audiofoolishness. Something to do with fields, perhaps.

Clipping is messy actually because of the combination of class A and
concertina. That's one reason why I want to change to a LTP.

cheers, Ian

"John Stewart" wrote

(below)

Thanks John! I had planned on doubling up the concertina and using
a ECC83/mosfet mu stage for the input (don't want to tangle with
small pentodes). That would avoid the extra 100V needed to jack up
the second LTP. All in all I like the cascaded LTP better though,
and I happen to have a suitable mains transformer.

I have no spare pins on the umbilical cord for a -ve supply. Is it
better to direct-couple the driver stage to the output stage, rather
than the input to the driver? With parallel output valves it is a
lot simpler to couple with caps.

What do you use as a current source for the second LTP?

cheers, Ian

"Ian Iveson" a écrit dans le message de
news: ...
"Yves" wrote

WAHOU !!
So beautifull !
So instructing plate curves !

Thanks Yves!

Some day I should do the same set of curves for a PP pair.

MJE340, TIP50 ?

Ah, I have a few MJE340. Also have some mosfets from when I was
tinkering with a mu stage and didn't manage to blow them up as
usual. So little experience or theory of SS I don't know where to go
so I usually just copy stuff. Suppose I should learn...

cheers, Ian

Hi Ian

My notes at:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/yves.monmagnon/SSCCS.GIF

Cheers, Yves.

"Tim Williams" inscribes in
:

: I can do a bit of philosophizing but for the most part, to me it is old men
: arguing in a manner which to the ordinary layman is trancedental thought but
: to one in the know, it is just what it is - arguing, a far cry from the true
: persuit of knowledge which the sciences bring to someone who seeks it.
:
: Tim

Philosophising, I'd think, from philosophise. There are rules for "s" and "z"
Transcendental
Pursuit.

Actually, science tends to advance by argument, does it not?
--
RdM

[NB that two hypens and a space followed by a new line denotes a sig.]

"Ian Iveson" writes:

: Anyone know anything about the philosophy of music? Or HTML? I feel
: about half-way there.
:
: http://www.ivesonaudio.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

The 6CH6 green machine is a triumph!

: The 6CH6 amp page looks nearly OK to me, the other amp needs writing
: up, and I need help with the philosophy, or "performance" page. The
: essential thesis is that music is an interactive pursuit, and so the
: listener must play an active part in the performance. Somehow the
: reproductionists and creationists must both be right, and the
: continuing debate between the two is part of the process of music.
:
: Placing this in the context of established thought is hard, I find.

For some time now, perhaps ever since you broached this thought, I have had
in mind and been searching for an early small book, 80's, perhaps, perhaps
also Philips related, which had a speculative chapter on the future of music
reproduction, a la the usual technological future decades fantasies, because
they projected amplifier controls for all sorts of listener preferential
adjustments, colourations of all sorts, preshadowing, maybe even beyond, in
imagination, what DSP and other spatial and tonal arrangments came since.

Heh! Well, I'll still try and find it ...

snip unanswerable

: cheers, Ian

regards, Ross

: : Placing this in the context of established thought is hard, I find.
:
: For some time now, perhaps ever since you broached this thought, I have had
: in mind and been searching for an early small book, 80's, perhaps, perhaps
: also Philips related, which had a speculative chapter on the future of music
: reproduction, a la the usual technological future decades fantasies, because
: they projected amplifier controls for all sorts of listener preferential
: adjustments, colourations of all sorts, preshadowing, maybe even beyond, in
: imagination, what DSP and other spatial and tonal arrangments came since.
:
: Heh! Well, I'll still try and find it ...
:
: snip unanswerable
:
: : cheers, Ian
:
: regards, Ross

! I meant ' 60's ... not ' 80s !

I've wanted to quote it for ages ... I know I used to have it.

There is a place where both meet, surely ... perhaps we are all but in it?
--
RdM

"Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes and
weighs 30 tons, computers in the future by the year 2000, may have only
1,000 vacuum tubes and weigh only 1.5 tons"
Popular Mechanics, March 1949

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 10:16:21 +0000, Ian Iveson wrote:

Anyone know anything about the philosophy of music? Or HTML? I feel about
half-way there.

http://www.ivesonaudio.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

snip

Lovely! I really enjoyed your web page - even if you feel that it is
incomplete. That green meanie setup is excellent! The looks remind me of
steam engines & things like that... :-)

--
Mick
(no M$ software on here... :-) )
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Web: http://projectedsound.tk

"Tim Williams" wrote

I know my share of HTML. I typed my website in Notepad, anyway.

When you get old, you may find it more difficult to keep the whole
structure in your head clearly enough to make changes a few months
later. That's what makes my head hurt. It would have been much
easier to use a higher level language that documents its own
structure, but I can't be bothered to test for all combinations of
browser, screen resolution, etc.... My interest is in the content
really.

I can do a bit of philosophizing but for the most part, to me it
is old men
arguing in a manner which to the ordinary layman is trancedental
thought but
to one in the know, it is just what it is - arguing, a far cry
from the true
persuit of knowledge which the sciences bring to someone who seeks
it.

Oh innocent youth!

Thesis, antithesis, synthesis. Is that not how science progresses?
That's the dialectic at work.

"Transcendental" philosophy is an unhelpful category, I fear. It
begs the question of quite what it is transcending, and where it is
transcending to. Earth and heaven perhaps?

In order to accept science as you appear to, then surely for that
decision you stood, for at least an instant, above science as you
mean it. The judgement you made was philosophical, not scientific.
Also not transcendental...it probably felt like a practical kind of
decision.

Alternatively, you were simply mugged and have never woken up.

Can you explain in scientific terms how come Al and Stew are both
right? There is a thesis and antithesis. Can you apply your science
to the obvious opportunity for synthesis in this case, and stop the
argument?

Can you find a new place where everyone can be happy?

And can you explain, in scientific terms, what music is? Or why my
amplifiers are black, green and gold?

cheers, Ian

"RdM" wrote

"Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum
tubes and
weighs 30 tons, computers in the future by the year 2000, may
have only
1,000 vacuum tubes and weigh only 1.5 tons"
Popular Mechanics, March 1949

A prediction based on the assumption that integrated circuits would
be thermionic, presumably!

Engineers still love to extrapolate, but thankfully science these
days knows a bit about revolution.

cheers, Ian

Ian Iveson wrote:

"John Stewart" wrote

(below)

Thanks John! I had planned on doubling up the concertina and using
a ECC83/mosfet mu stage for the input (don't want to tangle with
small pentodes). That would avoid the extra 100V needed to jack up
the second LTP. All in all I like the cascaded LTP better though,
and I happen to have a suitable mains transformer.

I have no spare pins on the umbilical cord for a -ve supply. Is it
better to direct-couple the driver stage to the output stage, rather
than the input to the driver? With parallel output valves it is a
lot simpler to couple with caps.

What do you use as a current source for the second LTP?

cheers, Ian

Better (And easier) to direct couple the input & driver.
Direct coupling to a PP output stage is rather difficult but could be
done.
Needs some level shifting as you would see in a DC Op Amp.
Either that or the output cathodes need to be biased up.
Occasionally we see SE output stages direct coupled.

In my recent efforts with 2-stage diff amps, both current sources
are simple resistors. I made quite a few measurements of some
relatively exotic arrangements a while back & found that for audio
purposes they provided no significant advantage. You will find some
very neat diff amp circuits in professional measurement equipment.
Let me know if you would like to see an example of a circuit that
has very large common mode rejection.

Most of the distortion in a common audio amp occurs in the output
stage. However, in a PP amp it is important to provide a means of
adjusting the output of the driver to account for imbalance in the
output tubes & imperfect balance in the input stage. That is where
I normally use a pot to set one of the driver anodes while
adjusting for a 2nd harmonic distortion minimum.

In a PP vacuum tube amp there are several ways of arranging the tubes
& output transformer so that various degrees of DF & distortion levels
can be achieved. You have used one somewhat similar to the Quad.
Other examples would be the McIntosh, Circlotron & UL. And the
obvious ordinary PP hookup. In terms of performance vs cost the
best results I've experienced are with the Norman Crowhurst Twin
Coupled Amp which is a version of the McIntosh circuit but uses
two low cost output transformers. You can read about it in the
August issue of AudioXpress magazine.

Cheers, John Stewart

"RdM" wrote in message
...
Philosophising, I'd think, from philosophise. There are rules for "s" and
"z"

Bah, hesitated on it, thought the Z looked slightly more appropriate.

Transcendental

Oops, slipped one...

Pursuit.

D'oh!

:-[

Tim

--
"I've got more trophies than Wayne Gretsky and the Pope combined!"
- Homer Simpson
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

"Ian Iveson" wrote in message
k...
"Tim Williams" wrote
I know my share of HTML. I typed my website in Notepad, anyway.

When you get old, you may find it more difficult to keep the whole
structure in your head clearly enough to make changes a few months
later.

That's why I keep it organized, neatly capitalized and tabbed.

but I can't be bothered to test for all combinations of
browser, screen resolution, etc....

Meh. I don't use tables, and what pixel indents I use still function at the
lowest resolution nobody uses anymore (640x480). The code checks on
http://www.htmlhelp.com 's validator so I'm not worried about other browsers
(and Greggggggggggggggggggg hasn't bugged me about it, so it must be working
.

In order to accept science as you appear to, then surely for that
decision you stood, for at least an instant, above science as you
mean it.

Nah, I grew into science. It's the only persuit that makes sense.

The judgement you made was philosophical, not scientific.

Didn't say I abandoned philosophy altogether, I have my share of
philosophical thoughts and such... they're just better than the average
philosoph. :^)

Alternatively, you were simply mugged and have never woken up.

Some would argue that, but I'm too stubborn to even consider it "waking up".
Wishy-washy people like that have no absolute truths, seems like a lame
way to live...

Can you explain in scientific terms how come Al and Stew are both
right?

Absolutely.

It's called a killfile.

Can you find a new place where everyone can be happy?

Nope, too many people are losers and generally unhappy. The USA seems to be
a pretty happy place on the whole, (and other politics, which I am similarly
well versed on but not particularly fond of.)

And can you explain, in scientific terms, what music is?

Notes! Or not...but we don't call that music.

Or why my amplifiers are black, green and gold?

Because you have a black soul, green with envy of golden money... :^)

Tim

--
"I've got more trophies than Wayne Gretsky and the Pope combined!"
- Homer Simpson
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms