Just got a used CRT projector and I know nothing about these.
got it for free with a nice motorzed screen but problem is that the image is
not right.

It is much wider at the top than at the bottom and none of the adjustments
control this.

Is there a common cause for this or a place I can start looking for the
problem?

Would appreciate any help anyone can provide.
Even reference to a website with a primer on video circuits.

Doug

doug wrote:

Just got a used CRT projector and I know nothing about these.
got it for free with a nice motorzed screen but problem is that the image is
not right.

It is much wider at the top than at the bottom and none of the adjustments
control this.

Is there a common cause for this or a place I can start looking for the
problem?

Would appreciate any help anyone can provide.
Even reference to a website with a primer on video circuits.

Doug

#1 - Is it positioned as per manufacturer's directions?

#2 - Contact the manufacturer and obtain installation instructions. These things
are tricky to set up well at the best of times, and doing is "blind" is even
worse.

I have it set up as per manufacturer
I install these things as part of my living
I just dont repair them. Usually if it doesnt align I take it down and take
it to a repair shop.
so I have the colorgenerator and pattern gen to align the 3 guns properly
and all that.
just dont know much about the repair of the circuit.
I am assuming that it the problem is pretty early in this unit because all 3
guns show the same pattern.
it is a Knoll projector it that helps
these are baisically Zenith units.

Doug


"Max Holubitsky" wrote in message
...


doug wrote:

Just got a used CRT projector and I know nothing about these.
got it for free with a nice motorzed screen but problem is that the
image is
not right.

It is much wider at the top than at the bottom and none of the
adjustments
control this.

Is there a common cause for this or a place I can start looking for the
problem?

Would appreciate any help anyone can provide.
Even reference to a website with a primer on video circuits.

Doug

#1 - Is it positioned as per manufacturer's directions?

#2 - Contact the manufacturer and obtain installation instructions. These
things
are tricky to set up well at the best of times, and doing is "blind" is
even
worse.

Hi Doug,

It sounded like a keystoning issue to me, which is why I said to check how it's
placed... beyond that, I really don't think I'm qualified to help. The extent of
my experience with 3 gun projectors is trying to tune up an HDTV Runco which
someone messed with in every possible way - 3 hours later it was displaying what
resembled an OK picture, but it was nowhere near its potential and still needed
to be set up properly by a tech. If I ever buy a projector for myself it'll be
a DLP for sure. Maybe try asking questions in the home theatre newsgroup, or
look for a home theatre forum online to find some people with relevant
experience.

good luck
Max

doug wrote:

I have it set up as per manufacturer
I install these things as part of my living
I just dont repair them. Usually if it doesnt align I take it down and take
it to a repair shop.
so I have the colorgenerator and pattern gen to align the 3 guns properly
and all that.
just dont know much about the repair of the circuit.
I am assuming that it the problem is pretty early in this unit because all 3
guns show the same pattern.
it is a Knoll projector it that helps
these are baisically Zenith units.

Doug

"Max Holubitsky" wrote in message
...


doug wrote:

Just got a used CRT projector and I know nothing about these.
got it for free with a nice motorzed screen but problem is that the
image is
not right.

It is much wider at the top than at the bottom and none of the
adjustments
control this.

Is there a common cause for this or a place I can start looking for the
problem?

Would appreciate any help anyone can provide.
Even reference to a website with a primer on video circuits.

Doug

#1 - Is it positioned as per manufacturer's directions?

#2 - Contact the manufacturer and obtain installation instructions. These
things
are tricky to set up well at the best of times, and doing is "blind" is
even
worse.

"doug" said:

Just got a used CRT projector and I know nothing about these.
got it for free with a nice motorzed screen but problem is that the image is
not right.

What brand is it?

It is much wider at the top than at the bottom and none of the adjustments
control this.

I have some experience with setting up Electrohome (CA), Barco (BE)
and Sony CRT projectors, and all of them had adjustment panels to
correct for trapezoid, focus and color convergence distortion.
Also, there must be some switches somewhere to generate test patterns
to adjust the image.
The Electrohome projectors were easier to install than the Barcos or
Sonys in my recollection.

Is there a common cause for this or a place I can start looking for the
problem?

As Max already pointed out, it's probably best to follow the
manufacturer's guidelines in setting up.
When the projector is placed in a lower position than the screen, the
image will usually be distorted in the way you describe.
Sometimes, these projectors were mounted on the ceiling with
corresponding corrections for the image.
There should be an alignment panel somewhere.
NB.: all of this goes for 3-beam projectors, I have no experience with
single CRT projectors other than monochrome types.

Would appreciate any help anyone can provide.
Even reference to a website with a primer on video circuits.

I'm not aware of a site with setup instructions for projectors, but
you could try a Google search for one or more of the brands I
mentioned above.

Good luck!

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

"doug" wrote in message
news:ilgLb.26285$X%5.23678@pd7tw2no...

It is much wider at the top than at the bottom and none of the adjustments
control this.

Yes, they do. This is called "keystone", and EVERY CRT projector has this
adjustment, usually a global adjustment plus individual overall and one-side
key adjustments for each color. You just haven't found it.

What is the make and model is the machine? Are you using any outboard
processsing (line doubler)?

Honestly, setting up a CRT projector correctly is not something to take
lightly (no pun intended). It is imperative that you have a factory
installation/setup manual (sometimes part of the owner's manual, frequently
not) because the vast majority of adjustments interact with each other to a
large degree . . . so if you start twiddling around, you can easily get
hopelessly out of whack (especially because what a control does changes
depending on floor mount, ceiling mount, etc, frequently making control
labelling wrong.) Also, the life of the machine may be affected if it's
operated with certain parameters mis-adjusted.

If this machine's worth anything to you at all, get a manual and at least
read it thoroughly and make you understand what's going on before you adjust
ANYTHING.

Hope this helps,

Kirk Patton

"doug" wrote:

: I have it set up as per manufacturer
: I install these things as part of my living
: I just dont repair them. Usually if it doesnt align I take it down and take
: it to a repair shop.

Every time there is a new relationship between the screen and projector ie
throw distance, screen size, new mounting position, etc, the setup/alignment
of the projector has to be redone with the appropriate controls for that,
while it is in place, no? It shouldn't need taking away to converge, surely?
Having a pattern generator would be handy to feed it in setup though.

The Philips (best IMO) or Nokia test pattern generator software at
http://www.benchmarkhq.ru/english.html?/be_monitor.html is useful if you
have a PC or notebook with TV/video-out, and is what I'll be using on mine
(below). This is of course useful for PC SVGA monitors too. (Windows OS)

: so I have the colorgenerator and pattern gen to align the 3 guns properly
: and all that.
: just dont know much about the repair of the circuit.
: I am assuming that it the problem is pretty early in this unit because all 3
: guns show the same pattern.

This should be obvious to an installer, but likely they are plug&play now!
grin (I've only had this really old analog-only, no menus, CRT projector)

The trapezoid pattern is present to correct for the angle that the lenses in
the projector are mounted at WRT to the screen, ie keystoning in reverse -
the end result being a square picture. Obviously you can't mount the lenses
pointing dead square at the centre of the screeen because it would block the
view for the viewers, so the CRT projectors have this built in. You may find
it is switcheable internally (maybe several plugs to swap) between "floor
mount" and "ceiling mount" and even additionally between rear projection and
front projection for both modes. The projector itself will usually be
level, but the CRTs and lenses are mounted at a precise angle within it.
If it is set to be ceiling mounted it may be meant to be mounted upsidedown.

You say the image is wider at the top - on the screen or on the lenses?
If at the top on the screen, while pointing straight at the centre, you can
see the PJ is meant to be mounted above;- longer throw to the bottom, etc.

: it is a Knoll projector it that helps
: these are baisically Zenith units.

I would be interested to know which OEM Zenith model this is, especially if
it is a PV800P. Does it have US Precision Lens Delta II-DOC lenses?
Is it a large square case? Do you know the Zenith equivalent model no.?

I have an OEM GE version of a Zenith PV800P I am trying to restore, myself.
The throw distance is 10' for an 8' dia pic. Composite video in only. 1988.

You may find the CRT Projectors forum at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/
worth a search on your model, or Zenith equivalent, also the archives there.

Really, you *need* the setup/service manual. If you know what model and what
it crosses to as an OEM then you may find it archived somewhere on the net.
Or for sale at least. After a year of searching, a manual for mine has now
turned up - now I just need to raise the US funds to buy the damn thing!

Try (and there may be others - just search the Zenith equiv model number!)
http://www.servicemanuals.net
http://beamer.xs4all.nl The FAQ there might be a useful download too.
This may be the same thing updated (scroll down to Guy Kuo's long post)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=728595#post728595
That one is likely too complex and geared for more sophisticated models than
an old Zenith (the CRT's / lenses on mine are not mechanically adjustable,
for instance, but they rather displace the R&B images laterally on the CRTs
instead - so if you went to adjust them to center without knowing that you'd
f*** it up totally) but may be useful later fo focusing issues etc possibly.

You may also find some basic setup FAQ's in other places that may help.
For a useful technical discussion download the CRTPAPER.PDF at
http://www.3mprecisionoptics.com/technical.cfm

The advice not to touch *anything* until you have the manual is spot-on!
(no pun intended:-)
HTH
Ross

: Doug
:
:
: "Max Holubitsky" wrote in message
: ...
:
:
: doug wrote:
:
: Just got a used CRT projector and I know nothing about these.
: got it for free with a nice motorzed screen but problem is that the
: image is
: not right.
:
: It is much wider at the top than at the bottom and none of the
: adjustments
: control this.
:
: Is there a common cause for this or a place I can start looking for the
: problem?
:
: Would appreciate any help anyone can provide.
: Even reference to a website with a primer on video circuits.
:
: Doug
:
: #1 - Is it positioned as per manufacturer's directions?
:
: #2 - Contact the manufacturer and obtain installation instructions. These
: things
: are tricky to set up well at the best of times, and doing is "blind" is
: even
: worse.

"Ross Matheson" wrote in message
...
"doug" wrote:

: I have it set up as per manufacturer
: I install these things as part of my living
: I just dont repair them. Usually if it doesnt align I take it down and
take
: it to a repair shop.

Every time there is a new relationship between the screen and projector ie
throw distance, screen size, new mounting position, etc, the
setup/alignment
of the projector has to be redone with the appropriate controls for that,
while it is in place, no? It shouldn't need taking away to converge,
surely?
Having a pattern generator would be handy to feed it in setup though.


What I meant was that if the normal convergance procedure doesnt align it
properly then it goes to the shop.I have a proper Video Generator and wont
need the software below.




The Philips (best IMO) or Nokia test pattern generator software at
http://www.benchmarkhq.ru/english.html?/be_monitor.html is useful if you
have a PC or notebook with TV/video-out, and is what I'll be using on mine
(below). This is of course useful for PC SVGA monitors too. (Windows OS)

: so I have the colorgenerator and pattern gen to align the 3 guns
properly
: and all that.
: just dont know much about the repair of the circuit.
: I am assuming that it the problem is pretty early in this unit because
all 3
: guns show the same pattern.

This should be obvious to an installer, but likely they are plug&play now!
grin (I've only had this really old analog-only, no menus, CRT
projector)

The trapezoid pattern is present to correct for the angle that the lenses
in
the projector are mounted at WRT to the screen, ie keystoning in reverse -
the end result being a square picture. Obviously you can't mount the
lenses
pointing dead square at the centre of the screeen because it would block
the
view for the viewers, so the CRT projectors have this built in. You may
find
it is switcheable internally (maybe several plugs to swap) between "floor
mount" and "ceiling mount" and even additionally between rear projection
and
front projection for both modes. The projector itself will usually be
level, but the CRTs and lenses are mounted at a precise angle within it.
If it is set to be ceiling mounted it may be meant to be mounted
upsidedown.

You say the image is wider at the top - on the screen or on the lenses?
If at the top on the screen, while pointing straight at the centre, you
can
see the PJ is meant to be mounted above;- longer throw to the bottom, etc.

: it is a Knoll projector it that helps
: these are baisically Zenith units.

I would be interested to know which OEM Zenith model this is, especially
if
it is a PV800P. Does it have US Precision Lens Delta II-DOC lenses?
Is it a large square case? Do you know the Zenith equivalent model no.?

I have an OEM GE version of a Zenith PV800P I am trying to restore,
myself.
The throw distance is 10' for an 8' dia pic. Composite video in only.
1988.

You may find the CRT Projectors forum at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/
worth a search on your model, or Zenith equivalent, also the archives
there.

Really, you *need* the setup/service manual. If you know what model and
what
it crosses to as an OEM then you may find it archived somewhere on the
net.
Or for sale at least. After a year of searching, a manual for mine has now
turned up - now I just need to raise the US funds to buy the damn thing!

Try (and there may be others - just search the Zenith equiv model number!)


Zenith is really bad for finding any kind of info on their products.
anything.
these guns are the same ones that are used in the video cubes for video wall
display.
And this Zenith does not have a KEYSTONE adjustment
I believe they used to shim the projector angle
this is a quite old projector and I got it for free from a Bar that decided
to go with a pair of projection TV's instead
so what would a Keystone adjustment look like?
is this what I need or is it possible that something in the input circuit
board has gone out of spec.
I really dont know how this stuff works inside.
but I have a free projector and screen and would love to try to get it
happening again .

http://www.servicemanuals.net
http://beamer.xs4all.nl The FAQ there might be a useful download too.
This may be the same thing updated (scroll down to Guy Kuo's long post)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=728595#post728595
That one is likely too complex and geared for more sophisticated models
than
an old Zenith (the CRT's / lenses on mine are not mechanically adjustable,
for instance, but they rather displace the R&B images laterally on the
CRTs
instead - so if you went to adjust them to center without knowing that
you'd
f*** it up totally) but may be useful later fo focusing issues etc
possibly.


These guns have some mechanical adjustment to allow for wider screens or
longer/shorter throw.


You may also find some basic setup FAQ's in other places that may help.
For a useful technical discussion download the CRTPAPER.PDF at
http://www.3mprecisionoptics.com/technical.cfm

The advice not to touch *anything* until you have the manual is spot-on!
(no pun intended:-)
HTH
Ross

: Doug
:
:
: "Max Holubitsky" wrote in message
: ...
:
:
: doug wrote:
:
: Just got a used CRT projector and I know nothing about these.
: got it for free with a nice motorzed screen but problem is that the
: image is
: not right.
:
: It is much wider at the top than at the bottom and none of the
: adjustments
: control this.
:
: Is there a common cause for this or a place I can start looking for
the
: problem?
:
: Would appreciate any help anyone can provide.
: Even reference to a website with a primer on video circuits.
:
: Doug
:
: #1 - Is it positioned as per manufacturer's directions?
:
: #2 - Contact the manufacturer and obtain installation instructions.
These
: things
: are tricky to set up well at the best of times, and doing is "blind"
is
: even
: worse.


This gun takes about 3 hours to set up and it is the same for any old 3 gun
CRT projector.
this one unfortuneately has all the controls on the top so you have to stand
on a ladder and feel around to make the adjustments.

"doug" wrote:

: "Ross Matheson" wrote
: : I have it set up as per manufacturer
: : I install these things as part of my living
: : I just dont repair them. Usually if it doesnt align I take it down and
: : take it to a repair shop.
[snip]
: What I meant was that if the normal convergance procedure doesnt align it
: properly then it goes to the shop.I have a proper Video Generator
[snip]

OK Doug I was a bit hasty in my initial reply. Still, *which* Zenith??

: : it is a Knoll projector it that helps
: : these are baisically Zenith units.
:
: I would be interested to know which OEM Zenith model this is,

[snip]

: Zenith is really bad for finding any kind of info on their products.
: anything.

True, as I have heard; BUT - there ARE some full service manuals available
on the net - IF you can work out the equivalent Zenith model it WILL help!

You say you set it up "as per manufacturer". Knoll. So you *do* have data.
What model? Sometimes OEM model's numbers correlate to badged models.
DO you know what the Zenith model equivalent is??? Some Zeniths were also
equivalent to Runco, Panasonics, etc. You need that information!

: these guns are the same ones that are used in the video cubes for video wall
: display.

Yeah, yeah, but what is the MODEL NO?

: And this Zenith does not have a KEYSTONE adjustment
: I believe they used to shim the projector angle
: this is a quite old projector and I got it for free from a Bar that decided
: to go with a pair of projection TV's instead
: so what would a Keystone adjustment look like?

It will be a potentiometer. If you had the service manual it would say.

In my PV800P the keystone adjustment for all three simultaneously is a pot
R23 on the 9-259-01board, for instance. However keystone effect is also
tied right in with vertical linearity, R18, since the same magnification
effect due to a longer throw path is involved. You *really* need the model
number of that Zenith and then attempt to get the full service manual!

Another aspect is that if the B+ is down it will affect the keystone
correction. As you can see this is a can of worms without the service
manual so you can measure voltages and go through the step-by-step
procedure in the right order, ideally. You may need to replace
electrolytics, perhaps - at least that might be familiar ground;-)

: is this what I need or is it possible that something in the input circuit
: board has gone out of spec.

Maybe it is possible to set up at the right distance and the right screen
size and converge it as is - or maybe it needs a full service check first.

Yes, voltages may have drifted, causing excessive keystone correction.
Quite possible. The B+ in mine was low and it was very trapezoidal.
However, I don't even have the lenses on mine right now; it's not set up.

: I really dont know how this stuff works inside.

MUCH better not to mess with it by guesswork then, especially without a
manual. Tweak the screen voltage and you could burn the CRTs out.
Start twiddlling with keystoning and vertical stretch and lens shimming
and it could all be for nought if the B+ is down and needs adjusting - but
you don't know that it should be 143 volts, for instance ... Rubik's Cube?

: but I have a free projector and screen and would love to try to get it
: happening again .

Understandable. I've gone as far as to import 3 lenses from the US because
my (quite cheap) one was missing them! Now I just need the *rest* of the
service manual, since the part I have is only the first 30 pages and there
are 4-5 other parts ... and mine stops about 4 pages into the detailed
setup procedures after the intro and block-by-block circuit description!

: http://www.servicemanuals.net
: http://beamer.xs4all.nl

Try this place too - it has some Zeniths and cross-references listed
http://www.freebrd.com/manuals.html

Also this has commentary on some early models - maybe yours is there.
There's a Knoll mentioned in it and early Zeniths but no equivalent IIRC.
Curt Palmes CRT primer. Only a few hundred KB.
http://www.monroe.net/~alyle/PalmeCRt.pdf

: These guns have some mechanical adjustment to allow for wider screens or
: longer/shorter throw.

!Terminology! The *guns* are the cathode/heater/grid assemblys in the
necks of the CRTs. The *lenses* have mechanical focus adjustment. Also,
there may be some adjustment of the lens *relative* to the CRT face itself
("lens flapping" or Scheimpflug adjustment) if the outer CRT's are angled.

Some of these old Zenith had fairly constrained throw distances due to the
geometry involved. Mine for instance will only go from 10'-13'. Won't
converge closer than 10' without shimming the outer lenses and farting
around with adjustments in a non-usual manner AFAIK. No scheimpflug.
Greater than 13' and it is impossible to register the RGB lines properly.
So I've read. I won't start a full setup until I have the complete manual.

: This gun takes about 3 hours to set up and it is the same for any old 3
: gun CRT projector.

Depending on the range of electronic and mechanical adjustments ...

: this one unfortuneately has all the controls on the top so you have to stand
: on a ladder and feel around to make the adjustments.

With the cabinet top off? IE, you *are* talking about internal controls?
[Sounds like a great recipe for electric shock, too - lots of fun! ;=})]

Mine has most of the controls on a board accessible from the top.
But the keystone correction control is not on that board - as above.
The centre board where most of my controls are is 9-180-01.
The 9-259-01 board is at the rear. These are typical Zenith part nos.
Get the idea? You *need* the appropriate model service manual.

[IF yours turns out to be a PV800, great! Snap! But somehow I suspect not,
since you mention the lens adjustments. You are probably lucky though,
since that was about their earliest. See if you can locate your model no.]

:

But since you have been given it, surely it is no longer in the bar, etc,
and you are trying to set it up at home? Have you measured the original
setup "throw" distance and tried to duplicate that? If it was OK there...

If it were me I would be checking it over and setting it up on a bench
with a screen at floor level corresponding to the relative distances it
will have when it is finally raised to ceiling height. Far easier work ...

But *first*, I would get the *service manual* with *full* measurement and
set-up procedures - ie a full service set-up, not just a basic install.

However, if you are *not* experienced as a technician then perhaps you
should find someone who is - they will *still* need the manual though.

The amount of time you could waste going round in circles might be better
spent earning money to pay a tech who knows those old models ...

OTOH, if you get the manual you *may* be able to suss out the info OK.
There is quite a lot of explanatory info in the part I have. Find one.

If you can't identify the Zenith model directly then perhaps make a list
of the Zenith part numbers of all the boards - that should identify it.
I say *all* because some were shared amongst different models AFAIK.
Perhaps also take a few pics of the guts and the outer case.

I advise you to register (free) at http://www.avsforum.com and ask about
your model - or for help identifying it - in the CRT Projector forum.
You could post the pics and some board numbers if not the model no.

Chances are someone familiar with it and/or its setup/service can help.
Some of them are service and setup people, others enthusiasts.
They seem to be a friendly bunch. I just went back after 9 months, and
found a source of parts and spare CRT's for mine, so I'm pretty happy!

I suspect that some of the folk at sci.electronic.repair may know, too.
You could try posting there, and see if you can get any info.
Yet again;- post the model number and as much detail as possible.

Good luck,

RdM
E&OE. All IMO :-)

" OK Doug I was a bit hasty in my initial reply. Still, *which* Zenith??


I am not able to find a crossreference to this model.
there is no model number that I can find yet on the case of the projector.
It is quite old and it has a couple of the panels lost.
inside it is all Zenith parts though.
Almost exactly like the Video Wall stuff.

: Zenith is really bad for finding any kind of info on their products.
: anything.

True, as I have heard; BUT - there ARE some full service manuals available
on the net - IF you can work out the equivalent Zenith model it WILL help!

You say you set it up "as per manufacturer". Knoll. So you *do* have data.

All I have is basic mounting data.
1.2x screen width is distance from screen on these.and it should be level
with top of screen.
That is also how it was mounted for years where it came from.

Thanks for all the time you have put in so far.I have been searching for
said manual for some time now and have come up blank.
I was only asking in here cause some may know the basics.
I have already learned a lot from reading on websites you have suggested and
from others that were related to those
Thanks again.
I will be consulting the repair facility that I go to usually for some
advice.
I didnt want to do that originally because there is a bit of a lanquage
barrier there.
they dont really speak english there and i dont speak Cantonese.
maybe they can find a manual though
hopefully one in english.

Doug

"doug" wrote:

: I am not able to find a crossreference to this model.
: there is no model number that I can find yet on the case of the projector.

Does it have only composite video in or svhs as well?
Provision for a wired remote? A "rangefinder" button?

: It is quite old and it has a couple of the panels lost.

I presume you mean "outer case" panels rather than pcb boards!
Is it a square/oblong, flat panelled case or a rounded, curved one?
Are the tubes/lenses all mounted flat & parallel on one panel or do the
outer two converge (adjustable?) inwards. Do they all tilt down (or up)?

: inside it is all Zenith parts though.

Zenith pcb's have part numbers. Writing these down might be useful.
That list could allow you to identify the Zenith model, and get a manual.

: Almost exactly like the Video Wall stuff.

Means nothing to me.

: All I have is basic mounting data.
: 1.2x screen width is distance from screen on these.and it should be level
: with top of screen.

Fairly typical. Is there a mfg/model name/number on the lens (cover off)?

: That is also how it was mounted for years where it came from.

And you have acquired the same size screen and set at same distance?

: Thanks for all the time you have put in so far.I have been searching for
: said manual for some time now and have come up blank.

No problem. It took me over a year to locate one (incomplete) for mine.

: I was only asking in here cause some may know the basics.

Unfortunately internal controls like keystone and vertical stretch etc
will vary from model to model and manufacturer, hence the need to ID.

: I have already learned a lot from reading on websites you have suggested and
: from others that were related to those
: Thanks again.

You're welcome. If it was the same Zenith as mine I could help more.

I have already mentioned two Zenith PCB numbers - the board at the back
and in the middle, with controls, of mine. Do they correspond, at all?
If so, I have some basic procedures for setting the keystone&vertical
stretch, which might work if those board numbers are the same ... maybe.

: I will be consulting the repair facility that I go to usually for some
: advice.
: I didnt want to do that originally because there is a bit of a lanquage
: barrier there.
: they dont really speak english there and i dont speak Cantonese.
: maybe they can find a manual though
: hopefully one in english.

Oh I expect the manual if you could find it would be in English - but how
are they going to find it, unless with great luck they already had one?

My thought was that you might save their time (and your money!) if you
were able to do that particular piece of ID "homework", via the internet.

A thought might be to disassemble the outer covers completely, note and
list all the PCB Zenith numbers, the CRT numbers, the lens name/numbers,
and post that list on the avsforum crt projector discussion, asking if
anybody knows what rebadged Zenith model that Knoll was.

I'd also even try the rec.antiques.radio+phono and/or
alt.binaries.schematics.electronic newsgroup (I haven't yet with mine but
should) as I have a suspicion there is at least one ex-Zenith tech in one
or other of those. Possibly also sci.electronics.repair. as well.

Also as I said take some pics of the guts. Persistance may pay off yet.

: Doug

Ross M.

Hey Ross,
I managed to get it!!
set up for now on the floor.
it still has some problems in the outer corners
but it looks great otherwise
I found the focusing magnet rings on the back of the guns.
takes some time to get any good at working them but once you do you can get
it real close just using those
also helpes to change the angle of the red and blue guns out a little
It really does need a good cleaning and testing though
proper service will do it good.
I will wait for that for while

If you really need a pattern Generator you will find that a large text
display works pretty good.
Like the program menu in a VCR....
my pattern Gen runs on batteries and they died mid last night
so I had to be creative.
damn it looks good even in pretty bright lite
I have windows in my living room that run along the right side of the room.
Blinds closed is good enough for watching TV.
so for now I have it good enough to watch
I will be taking the projector in for service once I am back to work again.

Thanks again for your help

Doug

Oh by the way Video Wall is when they have a stack of rear project video
cubes to make one screen.
you will see them on Jay Leno and just about all the award shows.
the CRT cubes are still the best.
can see em in direct sunlight
but you can imagine the time it takes to get them set up so they all look
the same as well as all line up
it can take a whole day to do a wall with a team of guys.
done right you can barely see the lines between the cubes.



"Ross Matheson" wrote in message
...
"doug" wrote:

: I am not able to find a crossreference to this model.
: there is no model number that I can find yet on the case of the
projector.

Does it have only composite video in or svhs as well?
Provision for a wired remote? A "rangefinder" button?

: It is quite old and it has a couple of the panels lost.

I presume you mean "outer case" panels rather than pcb boards!
Is it a square/oblong, flat panelled case or a rounded, curved one?
Are the tubes/lenses all mounted flat & parallel on one panel or do the
outer two converge (adjustable?) inwards. Do they all tilt down (or up)?

: inside it is all Zenith parts though.

Zenith pcb's have part numbers. Writing these down might be useful.
That list could allow you to identify the Zenith model, and get a manual.

: Almost exactly like the Video Wall stuff.

Means nothing to me.

: All I have is basic mounting data.
: 1.2x screen width is distance from screen on these.and it should be
level
: with top of screen.

Fairly typical. Is there a mfg/model name/number on the lens (cover off)?

: That is also how it was mounted for years where it came from.

And you have acquired the same size screen and set at same distance?

: Thanks for all the time you have put in so far.I have been searching for
: said manual for some time now and have come up blank.

No problem. It took me over a year to locate one (incomplete) for mine.

: I was only asking in here cause some may know the basics.

Unfortunately internal controls like keystone and vertical stretch etc
will vary from model to model and manufacturer, hence the need to ID.

: I have already learned a lot from reading on websites you have suggested
and
: from others that were related to those
: Thanks again.

You're welcome. If it was the same Zenith as mine I could help more.

I have already mentioned two Zenith PCB numbers - the board at the back
and in the middle, with controls, of mine. Do they correspond, at all?
If so, I have some basic procedures for setting the keystone&vertical
stretch, which might work if those board numbers are the same ... maybe.

: I will be consulting the repair facility that I go to usually for some
: advice.
: I didnt want to do that originally because there is a bit of a lanquage
: barrier there.
: they dont really speak english there and i dont speak Cantonese.
: maybe they can find a manual though
: hopefully one in english.

Oh I expect the manual if you could find it would be in English - but how
are they going to find it, unless with great luck they already had one?

My thought was that you might save their time (and your money!) if you
were able to do that particular piece of ID "homework", via the internet.

A thought might be to disassemble the outer covers completely, note and
list all the PCB Zenith numbers, the CRT numbers, the lens name/numbers,
and post that list on the avsforum crt projector discussion, asking if
anybody knows what rebadged Zenith model that Knoll was.

I'd also even try the rec.antiques.radio+phono and/or
alt.binaries.schematics.electronic newsgroup (I haven't yet with mine but
should) as I have a suspicion there is at least one ex-Zenith tech in one
or other of those. Possibly also sci.electronics.repair. as well.

Also as I said take some pics of the guts. Persistance may pay off yet.

: Doug

Ross M.