Andre Jute continues to be scorned by the cognescenti.....

And must be tired of running and trying to hide.....


Anonymous wrote:

Run, Rabbit, Run
was Magnequest transformer inductance

These excuses, in advance, are offered by Patrick Turner of Turner Audio, Canberra, for the
failure of his transformers in blind tests, if and when he ever winds any.

Its clear that the blind testing results of output transformers yeilds no sensible results.


Does anyone wonder why we bother with the fantasies of this nobody?

Does anyone bother with your fantasies???

Does not the majority of those at RAT and now also Aus.hi-fi
think that Andre Jute is wasting his time, again, and again, and again?

No one is likely to put
Turners transformers, if there were ever to be any, in a blind test of this magnitude - - - but he
has his excuses on the record for their failure!

I see you have run out of things to say which have meaning.

Andre Jute goes on to say I re-published the work of the late Bill May,
without permission, and infringed copyright.
I chose an extract to repost to allow discussion on the summary of inconclusive
conclusions about the measurement and listening tests.

But Andre Jute has reproduced the whole of Bill May's text, and I don't
see any permission from anyone for this.
Yet he calls me a thief. Yawn. Who gives a farnarkle?

Unfortunately, Andre Jute does not offer the audio world
any reliable method on which to base a choice of output transformer.

It would be ridiculous for any one maker to have to depend on having
his products tested in blind testing a la Bill May's efforts,
in order to be considered a credible alternative to the rest, because Bill's testings
are not able to produce a result where a number of people in a test of 13
different transformers didn't all agree on just one which was the best.
Regular testing of output transformers enmasse is not a common occurence.

I have successfully demonstrated my products at audiophile meetings,
and I sustain sales of products because people vote with their ears
after listening with a large range of other amp systems.
I do not spend any money on marketing, promotions.
The amps just sell themselves.

This is grotesque, unusual, bizarre, unbelievable. GUBU, an acronymic shorthand for Turner
and his non-existent transformers.

I have made it perfectly clear to everyone, on the world wide web, that I am an amplifier maker,
and I do not operate a business for the sole purpose of winding special transformers..
I wind all my own tranformers for my amps, and I see no reason why
the performance of these items does not equal or exceed the best produced in the world.
The craft and skill involved in winding great sounding, and great measuring
output transformers is not an insumountable challenge.
AFAIK, Andre Jute has not wound a single transformer, nor
constructed a single amplifier for sale to the public.
He is grossly inexperienced, yet thinks he is well qualified and has the right to
pour scorn on all I make, having never seen, owned, or listened
to anything I have made, and he has made no attempt to contact those who have.
I have no intention to lead him to those who have, because I know
they'd regard him as a boring old wind bag.

Andre, the more you denigrate my products, the more obvious it becomes
that they are quite competitive, and great value for the money.

I think I have almost said enough.

Should anyone want to purchase a set of hand made transformers,
they must realise they are not the cheapest, because I only build to order,
one at a time, and my costs are higher than mass produced items.
There would be a long lead time for delivery, since I
am engaged in audio amp contracts for the next 3 months at least.

Andre Jute is unable to make any meaningful recommendation to anyone
about where to shop for a good transformer. Andre cannot conclude anything
from Mr May's tests.
I have mentioned a host of reasons why the inconclusive tests
carried out by Mr May don't mean much, which Andre says are "excuses"
but he has no replies to the comments I made.


Patrick Turner.










Andre Jute

Patrick Turner )
Ross Matheson wrote:
refer http://tinyurl.com/vrsz
Thanks Ross for the search and find.
I also got a blank page when I went to the reference quoted by Jute.

In case anyone couldnt see the reference,
I copied the conclusions by Bill May, for all,
and place some comments below:-

- - - - -
extract from Bill May article reprinted without permission by Patrick Turner, a clear theft by Turner(1):
The chief facts to emerge from these tests are that with regard to
selecting output transformers for listening pleasure and fidelity:

data sheet measurements and reputation must be
supplemented by other means to predict listening pleasure

careful weighting of measurements on hand of experience goes
some way towards an initial rough selection

sighted listening tests are too subject to the effects of reputation
and hype to be used as a predictor of listening pleasure

blind listening tests prove that some reputations are earned

blind listening tests prove that a high reputation achieved by
hype is no guarantee of listening pleasure

blind listening tests prove that high price is no guarantee of
listening pleasure

blind listening tests prove that an industrial appearance, if kept
out of sight, is no bar to listening pleasure

blind listening tests prove that a modest price is no bar to
listening pleasure

success in blind listening tests is not always a guarantee of
fidelity in reproduction

blind listening tests should therefore always be used

but only in conjunction with careful interpretation of the
measurements

Incidentally, after examining our results the Japanese
manufacturer chose the mid-price Tango for sonic, marketing
and financial reasons.

The late Bill May spent forty years in high tension electricity
supply. A long-time tube hi-fi hobbyist, he was then technical
director of Real McCoy Audio, a design and prototyping shop.

Bill May quote ends.
- - - - - - - -
Here start excuses by Patrick Turner

Methinks if you conducted 10 blind tests, with ten
different people at each session, you might get 100 different
choices if finally, you asked those present to cast a secret ballot for which
one they would each buy.

It seems to me the unpredictablities involved would make it almost impossible to
earn oneself a reputation for good OPT sound at any listening tests.
One could make the very best measuring OPT, and fail to make any impression
that would lead to a sale with some folks, but then others might be impressed.
Then folks who hate tube amps might be repelled, or converted.
Any outcome from blind testing of OPTs seems a most unreliable way of
discerning which OPT is best.

One could also say that from all this, perhaps the OPT is just as important as any
one of other factors, say brand of output tubes, caps, resistors, chokes, rectifiers, cabling, terminals, solder, hook up wire, chassis materials, circuit topology, FB usage, driver tubes and
all the preamp details, and what day of the week it was,
and weather conditions, and the choices might be all different again with
varying peices of music used for the test,
or the levels at which it is played, and the order in which the amps are tested..

I can understand why some makers would try to bluff their way towards
sales, with slick marketting, for money soils the soul, and that no matter what is said at a website,
its no indication that their tranny is the best.

So why would someone take great pains to describe just one brand as plain crummy?

And obviously, with such a vague lot of conclusions about OPTs,
then the ordinary DIYer who knows what he is doing with wire and iron
could possibly build something which could be judged by someone, some time,
some where, as being somewhere between utterly wonderful, and plain awful.

I have never worried about these sort of tests, which raise as many questions as
they answer, I just get on with it.
I have never taken part in such tests as described, with so many entries
to judge.
I have taken part in tests when just one other maker challenged me in a sound off.
People could tell between only two contestants.

I think tube amps are like wines.
There is no "best wine". Not amoungst ordinary untrained people.
Maybe amougnst wine judges.
But amp maker can be well pleased if his vintage
produces smiles all round, and when the next fellow opens his bottle,
to refill the glases, more smiles.
Pity the fellow with the solid state amp, he needs luck that his tipple
is not judged as vinegar.

Patrick Turner.

- -- - - - - - - - - - -
(1) Turner deliberately ignores the wishes of the copyright owners that
out-of-context snippets should not be published. To republish someone
elses copyright material contrary to their wishes is outright theft. Here
is the copyright notice:

Copyright 1998 William May and Real McCoy Audio
This article may be reproduced free of charge for DIY and amateur
use as long as the entire article including the copyright notice and
this permision is rendered complete and unaltered.

Turner is also a commercial entity,
specifically excluded by the copyright owners.

Here, in restitution by me on Turners
behalf, is the full article:

Selecting an output transformer

by Bill May

Your average audiophile is lucky if he gets to hear two or three
output transformers before he makes his choice. It probably
takes him a lot of time and organization to hear that many.

So how does he make his choice? There are only three ways:
listening to enough transformers under controlled conditions to
make a choice, buying on measurements, and buying on
recommendation.

Listening to one or two or three isnt really enough. For the test to
be meaningful, the transformers must be installed in duplicate
amps, or at least in very similar amps. For the choice to be
meaningful, the transformers must be installed in an amp very
similar to what the user will build.

He can study manufacturers spec sheets. Some manufacturers
lie, or take their measurements in such a way that they are not
truly relevant to any real-life amplifier. Thats before the hype
even starts. Those who read the hype can easily be misled into
thinking there is a single figure of merit for a transformer. It can
be bandwidth, low bass extension, power handling. It isnt true.
Any transformer that will sound good has all its desirable
technical features in balance.

The hype includes the price and the reputation of the
transformer. That makes sighted tests suspect to any engineer.

He can ask for recommendations. The problem is that those who
recommend a particular transformer may have heard only that
transformer, or perhaps one other, and possibly not in suitable
amplifiers. Or the recommendation may be informed by nothing
more than spec sheets and hype.

In the end, only relevant, blind listening tests count.

This doesnt apply only to the average audiophile. Even
professionals can be taken in!

Here is an example of how measurements, hype and sighted
tests can produce different results These tests were conducted to
choose the output transformers to be used in an amplifier Real
McCoy Audio was designing for Japanese manufacture. The
manufacturer intended us to choose between the six most
expensive Japanese transformers. The cheapest Tango, the
Swedish Lundahl, American Magnequests and British Audio
Note UK transformers were added as statistical controls, and the
no-name potted Chinese and open-frame Russian ones as
placebos.

The electrical ratings are for weighted results of measurements
taken in circuits optimized to the transformers. In the sighted
tests knowledgeable listeners were permitted to see the
transformers and were told their relative prices, if they asked. I
have included a price scale, on which 1 is expensive and 5 is
cheap. In the blind tests no-one in contact with the listening
panel knew which amp was playing. The sighted tests were
conducted after the blind tests. Several of the tests were
repeated with a different listening group to confirm the result.

Table reads in 12 pt Courier.

RATING ELECTRICAL LISTENING TEST LISTENING TEST
- MEASUREMENT SIGHTED BLIND
1 Tango 1 Tango 1 Lundahl 3
2 Lundahl 3 Tango 2 Nature Snd 1
3 Tamura 1 Tamura 1 Tango 2
4 Nature Snd 1 Nature Snd 1 Tamura 1
5 Nature Snd 2 Magnequest 1 Tango 1
6 Tamura 2 Nature Snd 2 Nature Snd 2
7 Tango 2 Lundahl 3 Audio N UK 4
8 Magnequest 1 Tamura 2 Tamura 2
9 Audio N UK 4 Audio N UK 4 Russian 4
10 Magnequest 2 Magnequest 2 Magnequest 1
11 Tango 3 Tango 3 Tango 3
12 Chinese 5 Russian 4 Chinese 5
13 Russian 4 Chinese 5 Magnequest 2

The Measurements column holds no surprises. On
measurement, all of these except the Russian transformer are
good performers. Some audiophiles scoff at the idea that a set of
electrical measurements may predict the outcome of taste tests
with certainty. That is true. But if one lowers the expectation a
little, correctly weighted measurements will at least eliminate
components on which further time should not be wasted. That
proved the case here. Of the bottom five in the measurements
rating, only one transformer is not in the bottom five in the
blind listening tests.

The Blind Listening Tests in the last column hold several
surprises. A comparison with the Measurements table shows that
the best-measuring transformer does not always sound the best.
Price comparisons show that the most expensive transformer
does not always sound the best, even within the same brand. The
high rating of the Russian transformer shows that precision is not
as highly valued among the musically inclined as engineers
would prefer. The Russian transformer rose so far above its
measurements in the listening tests because its inaccuracies are
aurally pleasing in the "presence range". One of the listening
panel noted in his Comments block: "Who cares about accuracy
when you can have ecstacy."

The Sighted Listening column shows the effect of brand name,
hype, and possibly of appearance. Comparison with the Blind
Listening column shows that some reputations are earned and
some are not. The same comparison shows that an industrial
physical appearance can depress the sighted rating of a
transformer like the Lundahl which measures exceptionally well
and in the blind listening tests came first. Equally hype can
boost the sighted rating of a transformer, like both the Magnequests,
well beyond its rating in either measurements or on blind
listening. A comparison between blind and sighted ratings of the
Japanese transformers is interesting. It shows that even where
appearance is not a consideration, and the reputation is earned,
knowledge of relative price can distort the rating.

The chief facts to emerge from these tests are that with regard to
selecting output transformers for listening pleasure and fidelity:

data sheet measurements and reputation must be
supplemented by other means to predict listening pleasure

careful weighting of measurements on hand of experience goes
some way towards an initial rough selection

sighted listening tests are too subject to the effects of reputation
and hype to be used as a predictor of listening pleasure

blind listening tests prove that some reputations are earned

blind listening tests prove that a high reputation achieved by
hype is no guarantee of listening pleasure

blind listening tests prove that high price is no guarantee of
listening pleasure

blind listening tests prove that an industrial appearance, if kept
out of sight, is no bar to listening pleasure

blind listening tests prove that a modest price is no bar to
listening pleasure

success in blind listening tests is not always a guarantee of
fidelity in reproduction

blind listening tests should therefore always be used

but only in conjunction with careful interpretation of the
measurements

Incidentally, after examining our results the Japanese
manufacturer chose the mid-price Tango for sonic, marketing
and financial reasons.

The late Bill May spent forty years in high tension electricity
supply. A long-time tube hi-fi hobbyist, he was then technical
director of Real McCoy Audio, a design and prototyping shop.

Copyright 1998 William May and Real McCoy Audio
This article may be reproduced free of charge for DIY and amateur
use as long as the entire article including the copyright notice and
this permision is rendered complete and unaltered.

-=-
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