If I am not mistaken, Fender Deluxe Reverb amplifiers from the mid 60's on
up, run the plates in
excess of 420v, and are designed that way. If you look at tube spec sheets,
6V6GT's are designed for 315 plate volts max. or thereabouts.

I am confused.

Hi RATs!

Everybody has lots of rules and specifications.

Pick the ones you like.

Relax, the depth of knowledge of the human race would not smudge your
windshield

Plate Voltage by itself is meaningless. The trick is knowing the
voltage/current/load of the circuit.

It ain't fair, get over it

Happy Ears!
Al


Alan J. Marcy
Phoenix, AZ

PWC/mystic/Earhead

arizona cowboy wrote:

If I am not mistaken, Fender Deluxe Reverb amplifiers from the mid 60's on
up, run the plates in
excess of 420v, and are designed that way. If you look at tube spec sheets,
6V6GT's are designed for 315 plate volts max. or thereabouts.

I am confused.

You may find the screen voltage is at around 250v,
and the plate voltage is high, and this allows a wide
plate voltage swing on a higher than ususal load value,
thus getting more power.
The idle current is probably only 18 mA,
so the plate dissipation is only 7.5 watts,
allowing class AB action without toasting the tubes.

One needs to look at the whole picture to understand
how they done it back then.

Patrick Turner.

"arizona cowboy"

If I am not mistaken, Fender Deluxe Reverb amplifiers from the mid 60's on
up, run the plates in excess of 420v, and are designed that way. If you
look at tube spec sheets,
6V6GT's are designed for 315 plate volts max. or thereabouts.


** Those amps used a 420 volt B+ supply with 415 on the plates and 410
on the screens while the control grids sat at -35 volts. Output is about 20
watts rms sine.

See :
http://www1.korksoft.com/~schem/fend...a763_schem.pdf

The absolute maximum positive plate voltage for a 6V6 is given as 1200
volts in my GE data book - do not confuse plate supply with plate voltage.
The "secret" of those old Fenders is the load impedance presented to the
tubes is higher than usual.




............. Phil

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


arizona cowboy wrote:

If I am not mistaken, Fender Deluxe Reverb amplifiers from the mid 60's
on
up, run the plates in
excess of 420v, and are designed that way. If you look at tube spec
sheets,
6V6GT's are designed for 315 plate volts max. or thereabouts.

I am confused.


You may find the screen voltage is at around 250v,


** Wrong - Pat Turner has never seen inside a guitar amp in his
miserable life.



............ Phil

(TubeGarden) wrote in message ...
Hi RATs!

Everybody has lots of rules and specifications.

Pick the ones you like.

Relax, the depth of knowledge of the human race would not smudge your
windshield

Plate Voltage by itself is meaningless. The trick is knowing the
voltage/current/load of the circuit.

It ain't fair, get over it

Happy Ears!
Al


Alan J. Marcy
Phoenix, AZ

PWC/mystic/Earhead



My friend has a Bell 6060 stereo amp,one pair of the EL34's were
dead,so he found some 6V6's and put them in! The plates were a dull
red,but it had loads of bass punch! He connected it to my spakers,and
turned it up..My god,I thought the cones of my woofers were gonna fly
across the room..Never seen them move like that! the 6V6's were in
there for a while,and worked nicely,despite being red-hot. I gave him
an older quad of EL34's for the amp..and I got to keep the near-death
pair of Mullards. Maybe I should E-bay them ;-)
I think the B+ in this amp is 435V. So 6V6's will hold up to it,but I
suggest trying to keep the plates from glowing ;-)

"Phil Allison" wrote in message
u...

"arizona cowboy"

If I am not mistaken, Fender Deluxe Reverb amplifiers from the mid 60's
on
up, run the plates in excess of 420v, and are designed that way. If you
look at tube spec sheets,
6V6GT's are designed for 315 plate volts max. or thereabouts.


** Those amps used a 420 volt B+ supply with 415 on the plates and
410
on the screens while the control grids sat at -35 volts. Output is about
20
watts rms sine.

See :
http://www1.korksoft.com/~schem/fend...a763_schem.pdf

The absolute maximum positive plate voltage for a 6V6 is given as
1200
volts in my GE data book - do not confuse plate supply with plate voltage.
The "secret" of those old Fenders is the load impedance presented to the
tubes is higher than usual.




............ Phil



Well, no, Phil - there's no secret. It's common knowledge that fend.
Deluxes & other fend. 6v6 amps are toob-eaters & 6v6's are runnin' outside
the spec sheeeet. Dat be why you have to hand-pick NOS (sometimes a Mazda
might work) toobs for the best-sounding princes and deluxes, or watch one
plate glow. Toobs are best *mismatched* to ensure equal idle current (DCR
of 1/2 of the OT primary is significantly dif. from the other - deal.) The
load impedance presented to those amps is all over the place, B+ varies by
+-20%, and SG voltage is determined by the toob more thsn by design (470Ohm
SGR don't dictate no voltage drop I know of -Toob dependant.)
I *love* experts.
-dim
Prop builder.

"Shiva"
"Phil Allison"

The "secret" of those old Fenders is the load impedance presented to the
tubes is higher than usual.

............ Phil


Well, no, Phil - there's no secret.


** So you have wanked yourself blind and did not see commas around the
word.


It's common knowledge that fend.
Deluxes & other fend. 6v6 amps are toob-eaters & 6v6's are runnin'
outside
the spec sheeeet.


** Common knowledge is mostly common bull****.


Dat be why you have to hand-pick NOS (sometimes a Mazda
might work) toobs for the best-sounding princes and deluxes, or watch one
plate glow.


** Only one ???


Toobs are best *mismatched* to ensure equal idle current (DCR
of 1/2 of the OT primary is significantly dif. from the other - deal.)


** Now you have proven you are utterly insane.


The
load impedance presented to those amps is all over the place,


** Same as any amp that drives a loudspeaker.



B+ varies by
+-20%, and SG voltage is determined by the toob more thsn by design
(470Ohm
SGR don't dictate no voltage drop I know of -Toob dependant.)

I *love* experts.


** You would not know one if he bit you on your ass - ****head.




............ Phil

"arizona cowboy" cacheoverflowATyahoo.com wrote in message
...
If I am not mistaken, Fender Deluxe Reverb amplifiers from the mid
60's on up, run the plates in excess of 420v, and are designed that
way. If you look at tube spec sheets, 6V6GT's are designed for 315
plate volts max. or thereabouts. I am confused.

Meh. I run Frankenhouse at 400V or so, uh 300V screens? I forget.
No red plate as the tubes are biased well under at 30 or 40mA.
Schematic: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/I...ankenhouse.gif
Needs a screen regulator, some serious sag near max. power output!

Tim

--
"That's for the courts to decide." - Homer Simpson
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

"Phil Allison" wrote in message
u...
The "secret" of those old Fenders

** So you have wanked yourself blind and did not see commas around the
word.

What commas? Huh?

*Slaps forehead* OHHHH, did you mean the QUOTATION MARKS!?
LMAO @ Phil.

** Common knowledge is mostly common bull****.

And that explains you.

Until next time, Phil;

Tim

P.S. Here's some commas for you to study.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,

--
"That's for the courts to decide." - Homer Simpson
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

"Tim Williams"

"Phil Allison"


The "secret" of those old Fenders

** So you have wanked yourself blind and did not see commas around
the
word.

What commas? Huh?

** Yeah commas - not Commies !


** Common knowledge is mostly common bull****.

And that explains you.


** Tim the Turd still wishes he was up Pat Turner's bum.



......... Phil

Confusion not unreasonable... my take is Leo F got away with it cuz in the
hey day of USA 6V6 production they simply were making a much more robust
tube than was specified for. As NOS supplies began to dwindle, an actual
era ensued for converting Deluxes to 6L6's because of the frustration in
finding 6V6's that would hold up. About 3 years ago the Sovtek factory came
out with the 6V6EH for Electro Harmonix - halelujah! it's really a great
tube and I for one report very positive results running them in Deluxes aka
the 6V6 eater and in many other amps as well. They also sound pretty damn
good - maybe not as good as an RCA or a GE but pretty close and - with a SRP
of $15? .....like I said halelujah!

It is also worth mentioning that many a plate voltage rating can be
"cheated" to a certain extent depending on how the tube is othwerwise
operated - but the Deluxe would be asking a lot from this tube under all
such "other" conditions. (the Eg2 is right at plate potential and the pD
wants to be at or close to max in order to achieve sufficiently biased
output stage conditions).

More confusion: for that matter, Leo got away with exceeding filter cap
ratings too! It is common to see numerous 60's Fender Amps with B+ exceeding
the first filter caps rating when you put em on standby - bias filters as
well. Even not on standby - they are exceeded sometimes! I even spoke to an
engineer at Mallory once about 20 years ago - I asked whether the DCV rating
of their electrolytics was a conservative one and took into account ripple
currents & etc and he said ....NO.....that the ratings are for DC voltage
and do not magicly include AC ripple current riding along & other heating
factors. ie: a 450v cap with 450 volts on it is a disaster waiting to
happen. Of course every text book in my library backs this up (especially
concerning the first filter in any power supply) yet I open at least one old
Fender a week like this - and it has been like that - working for 30 years!

I guess they just don't make stuff like they used to.


"arizona cowboy" cacheoverflowATyahoo.com wrote in message
...
If I am not mistaken, Fender Deluxe Reverb amplifiers from the mid 60's on
up, run the plates in
excess of 420v, and are designed that way. If you look at tube spec
sheets,
6V6GT's are designed for 315 plate volts max. or thereabouts.

I am confused.

Phil A once again demonstrates to all his comprehensive use of the English
Language. JLS

Phil Allison wrote:

"Tim Williams"

"Phil Allison"

The "secret" of those old Fenders

** So you have wanked yourself blind and did not see commas around
the
word.

What commas? Huh?

** Yeah commas - not Commies !

** Common knowledge is mostly common bull****.

And that explains you.

** Tim the Turd still wishes he was up Pat Turner's bum.

........ Phil

"John Stewart"

** Tim the Turd still wishes he was up Pat Turner's bum.

Phil A once again demonstrates to all his comprehensive use of the English
Language.


** Its the use of powerful imagery that is the thing as far as I am
concerned.

The suggestion that Pat Turner gives cute names like "Tim" to his
constipated dropping and then encourages them to post little piles of crap
on RAT is a philosophical metaphor for a much bigger issue of course.





.......... Phil

I even spoke to an
engineer at Mallory once about 20 years ago - I asked whether the DCV
rating
of their electrolytics was a conservative one and took into account
ripple
currents & etc and he said ....


What the **** do they know!

Vin




wrote in message
...
Confusion not unreasonable... my take is Leo F got away with it cuz in the
hey day of USA 6V6 production they simply were making a much more robust
tube than was specified for. As NOS supplies began to dwindle, an actual
era ensued for converting Deluxes to 6L6's because of the frustration in
finding 6V6's that would hold up. About 3 years ago the Sovtek factory
came
out with the 6V6EH for Electro Harmonix - halelujah! it's really a great
tube and I for one report very positive results running them in Deluxes
aka
the 6V6 eater and in many other amps as well. They also sound pretty damn
good - maybe not as good as an RCA or a GE but pretty close and - with a
SRP
of $15? .....like I said halelujah!

It is also worth mentioning that many a plate voltage rating can be
"cheated" to a certain extent depending on how the tube is othwerwise
operated - but the Deluxe would be asking a lot from this tube under all
such "other" conditions. (the Eg2 is right at plate potential and the pD
wants to be at or close to max in order to achieve sufficiently biased
output stage conditions).

More confusion: for that matter, Leo got away with exceeding filter cap
ratings too! It is common to see numerous 60's Fender Amps with B+
exceeding
the first filter caps rating when you put em on standby - bias filters as
well. Even not on standby - they are exceeded sometimes! I even spoke to
an
engineer at Mallory once about 20 years ago - I asked whether the DCV
rating
of their electrolytics was a conservative one and took into account
ripple
currents & etc and he said ....NO.....that the ratings are for DC voltage
and do not magicly include AC ripple current riding along & other heating
factors. ie: a 450v cap with 450 volts on it is a disaster waiting to
happen. Of course every text book in my library backs this up (especially
concerning the first filter in any power supply) yet I open at least one
old
Fender a week like this - and it has been like that - working for 30
years!

I guess they just don't make stuff like they used to.


"arizona cowboy" cacheoverflowATyahoo.com wrote in message
...
If I am not mistaken, Fender Deluxe Reverb amplifiers from the mid 60's
on
up, run the plates in
excess of 420v, and are designed that way. If you look at tube spec
sheets,
6V6GT's are designed for 315 plate volts max. or thereabouts.

I am confused.