On the contrary, should you wish to order any tranny with very low
wire resistance, it will cost you USD $569,000, in cash, in advance.

O come on. You can make a zero resistance transformer out of any garden-variety
piece of crap. All you have to do is reduce the temperature to -456 degrees.

Sorry for pointing that out. Maybe cryo-dipping transformers will be the new
rage.

"Troglodite" wrote in message
...
On the contrary, should you wish to order any tranny with very low
wire resistance, it will cost you USD $569,000, in cash, in advance.

O come on. You can make a zero resistance transformer out of any
garden-variety
piece of crap. All you have to do is reduce the temperature to -456
degrees.

;-)
I'd really like to see a transformer wound with hi-temp superconductor
(which will only need LN to keep it cool). Should be able to get a
very high output in a small space. I don't know, what does steel do
(magnetically) when it's as cold? Is there such a thing as a magnetic
superconductor?

Tim

--
"That's for the courts to decide." - Homer Simpson
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

Troglodite wrote:

On the contrary, should you wish to order any tranny with very low
wire resistance, it will cost you USD $569,000, in cash, in advance.

O come on. You can make a zero resistance transformer out of any garden-variety
piece of crap. All you have to do is reduce the temperature to -456 degrees.

Sorry for pointing that out. Maybe cryo-dipping transformers will be the new
rage.

Darn, now you spoiled my plot to get well paid for supplying
a nice big super cooled tranny.

Bloody hell, now the super cool contractors will get the work and I won't.

I heard super cool trannies are required to make Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the
Jupiter
sound listenable.

Patrick Turner.

"Tim Williams" wrote:

: "Troglodite" wrote in message
: ...
: On the contrary, should you wish to order any tranny with very low
: wire resistance, it will cost you USD $569,000, in cash, in advance.
:
: O come on. You can make a zero resistance transformer out of
: any garden-variety piece of crap. All you have to do is reduce
: the temperature to -456 degrees.
:
: ;-)
: I'd really like to see a transformer wound with hi-temp superconductor
: (which will only need LN to keep it cool). Should be able to get a
: very high output in a small space. I don't know, what does steel do
: (magnetically) when it's as cold? Is there such a thing as a magnetic
: superconductor?
:
: Tim

Plenty of hi-temp superconducting wire manufacturing already
happening, and the price is coming down all the time ... LN temp is
already feasible ... trouble is you're looking at high currents ...
suspect you won't need a core ... you will need special lead-in wires,
which American Superconductor could supply ... maybe this is the sort
of technology you need for a Nick Sheldon type multi-kilowatt amp
OPT;-)

There's work going on right there in Wisconsin - and in NZ - and ~
http://www.asc.wisc.edu/
http://www.irl.cri.nz/mat-tech-group...ils/index.html
http://superconductors.org/Links.htm (lots of manufacturers links)

Google on "superconducting wire", "

RdM wrote:

: Google on "superconducting wire", "

I hate it when I accidenally press Ctrl-N (Send Now) in Agent, when I
meant to press Ctrl-V, especially on a silly draft/note ... oh well!
I was going to add - include "price, cost, transformers" in succesion,
and the number of hits comes down quite a lot ... very educational!

My newsgroup (and internet) access has been sporadic of late, so I
have quite a lot of catching-up to do ... my apologies to those with
un-answered follow-ups, replies, emails ... I'm juggling survival and
health issues, having been out of work for some time now, and haven't
been able to focus on some of the current issues as much as I'd like!

RdM

"RdM" wrote in message
...
: RdM wrote:
:
: : Google on "superconducting wire", "
:
: I hate it when I accidenally press Ctrl-N (Send Now) in Agent, when I
: meant to press Ctrl-V, especially on a silly draft/note ... oh well!
: I was going to add - include "price, cost, transformers" in succesion,
: and the number of hits comes down quite a lot ... very educational!
:
: My newsgroup (and internet) access has been sporadic of late, so I
: have quite a lot of catching-up to do ... my apologies to those with
: un-answered follow-ups, replies, emails ... I'm juggling survival and
: health issues, having been out of work for some time now, and haven't
: been able to focus on some of the current issues as much as I'd like!
:
: RdM

Well, all strength to you, take it easy !
do a Ctrl-Alt-Del on your life and
see where you want to start up from
Cheers,
Rudy

"Ruud Broens" wrote:

: "RdM" wrote
- -
: : My newsgroup (and internet) access has been sporadic of late, so I
: : have quite a lot of catching-up to do ... my apologies to those with
: : un-answered follow-ups, replies, emails ... I'm juggling survival and
: : health issues, having been out of work for some time now, and haven't
: : been able to focus on some of the current issues as much as I'd like!
: :
: : RdM
:
: Well, all strength to you, take it easy !
: do a Ctrl-Alt-Del on your life and
: see where you want to start up from
: Cheers,
: Rudy

Hey, thanks for the kind thoughts! :=})

Yes, I've been wondering about this ...
[This application is not responding ... ] 8=?

Or, the BSOD [Blue Screen Of Death] messages ...
and "If the problem persists, contact the vendor" ,,,
[especially ironic when it's a M$ sub-app causing it:-
but perhaps when extrapolated to a human life,
we may remember the old joke that runs something like
"Unhappy with your Life? - Send it back to the Maker!"]

Can we revise without a cold re-boot?
Warm re-boots are certainly nicer ...
Nice, note, also being a 'nix term.

Ross

(Troglodite) wrote:

: On the contrary, should you wish to order any tranny with very low
: wire resistance, it will cost you USD $569,000, in cash, in advance.
:
: O come on. You can make a zero resistance transformer out of any garden-variety
: piece of crap. All you have to do is reduce the temperature to -456 degrees.
:
: Sorry for pointing that out. Maybe cryo-dipping transformers will be the new
: rage.

From http://tinyurl.com/ttth
--
Closer to home--and to reality--there are a number of present-day trends
that can logically be extended to the future. Superconductors will become
practical and their use will be widespread. The Economist magazine
(www.economist.com) reports the world's first practical superconducting
power cables are being installed. Detroit Edison will replace nine copper
cables with three superconducting cables over a 400 m run.

The advance that led to this application was a reduction in the required
operating temperature of superconducting cables from 23º K to 77º K. This
means cooling can be accomplished with inexpensive, abundant, and safe
liquid nitrogen. Manufacturers have increased the manufacturable length of
superconductor cables many times over during the past few years, and have
reduced the price considerably.

Superconducting cable once cost around $1,500 per kiloamp per meter (kA-m),
the standard industry measure of conducting capacity. American
Superconductor now sells wire for $200/kA-m, and expects to reduce the cost
to about $50/kA-m. Reaching $25 per kA-m, the current cost of copper cable,
will take a little longer.

The main reason for installing superconducting power lines is not to reduce
transmission losses. These losses amount to only about 7% and those savings
are offset by the energy required to cool the cables. The real advantage is
that the lack of resistance means that a given thickness of superconducting
cable can carry between two and 10 times as much power as the same
thickness of copper. This could provide a relatively cheap way to meet
rising demand for power in many applications.

Globalization looks to have a positive effect on wire and cable users,
moving industry towards one regulatory agency for construction and test
requirements. This should intensify competition and reduce prices.

Other inescapable and related trends in environmentalism and personal
safety will also affect wire and cable producers and consumers. "All
thermoplastic materials used for industrial, machinery, and building wire
will be halogen-free, low-smoke, and flame-retardant," suggests Gavilanes.
"All wire and cable products that use copper will have to be replaced with
oxygen free metals, superconductors, or fiber."
--

Patrick Turner wrote:

: Troglodite wrote:
:
: On the contrary, should you wish to order any tranny with very low
: wire resistance, it will cost you USD $569,000, in cash, in advance.
:
: O come on. You can make a zero resistance transformer out of any garden-variety
: piece of crap. All you have to do is reduce the temperature to -456 degrees.
:
: Sorry for pointing that out. Maybe cryo-dipping transformers will be the new
: rage.
:
: Darn, now you spoiled my plot to get well paid for supplying
: a nice big super cooled tranny.

Price of 0.8 mm diameter wire
NbTi: $0.6 per meter
Nb3Sn: $5 per meter
BSCCO: $20 per meter

"RdM" wrote in message
...
"Ruud Broens" wrote:

: "RdM" wrote
- -
: : My newsgroup (and internet) access has been sporadic of late, so I
: : have quite a lot of catching-up to do ... my apologies to those with
: : un-answered follow-ups, replies, emails ... I'm juggling survival and
: : health issues, having been out of work for some time now, and haven't
: : been able to focus on some of the current issues as much as I'd like!
: :
: : RdM
:
: Well, all strength to you, take it easy !
: do a Ctrl-Alt-Del on your life and
: see where you want to start up from
: Cheers,
: Rudy

Hey, thanks for the kind thoughts! :=})

Yes, I've been wondering about this ...
[This application is not responding ... ] 8=?

Or, the BSOD [Blue Screen Of Death] messages ...
and "If the problem persists, contact the vendor" ,,,
[especially ironic when it's a M$ sub-app causing it:-
but perhaps when extrapolated to a human life,
we may remember the old joke that runs something like
"Unhappy with your Life? - Send it back to the Maker!"]

Can we revise without a cold re-boot?
Warm re-boots are certainly nicer ...
Nice, note, also being a 'nix term.

Ross

Well, a warm reboot's been comin' in and out of fashion for a while now,
crestin' in the late 60's / early 70's - ECT. Back then it was done with a
full memory dump. Hey, progress - now it's done a bit more gracefully,
re-initializin' a few services, with new refined watchdog procs takin' care
of the loose ends & zombie chillun'.
Both have their detractors, so there's choice #3: (pardon win lingo)
"Safe mode". Most services & drivers are simply prevented from initializin'
by a steady influx of (not so modern) psychopharma. The drawback to choice
#3 is the tendency of many boxen resortin' to the *real* reset button.
Can't say i'd be interested in choices 1, 2, or 3, though i *really* can
relate to one problem early multi-user /multi-taskin' OS's were plagued
with: *THRASHING*.
Thrashin's a real amusing situation. Without goin' into techy details, a
system looks dead to the users - no "jobs" are being done, sysadmin lookin'
frazzled. But. The box is alive and well, but is spending all of it's time
prioritizing & re-prioritizin' tasks (jobs, procs, threads, whatevers), with
absolutely no time to actually *work* on any of the visible tasks. The
common cure was, basically, pullin' the plug...
Sound familiar to anyone?
-dim (restorin' a seburg juke (and you thought guitah' amps were simple!))

RdM wrote:

(Troglodite) wrote:

: On the contrary, should you wish to order any tranny with very low
: wire resistance, it will cost you USD $569,000, in cash, in advance.
:
: O come on. You can make a zero resistance transformer out of any garden-variety
: piece of crap. All you have to do is reduce the temperature to -456 degrees.
:
: Sorry for pointing that out. Maybe cryo-dipping transformers will be the new
: rage.

From http://tinyurl.com/ttth
--
Closer to home--and to reality--there are a number of present-day trends
that can logically be extended to the future. Superconductors will become
practical and their use will be widespread. The Economist magazine
(www.economist.com) reports the world's first practical superconducting
power cables are being installed. Detroit Edison will replace nine copper
cables with three superconducting cables over a 400 m run.

The advance that led to this application was a reduction in the required
operating temperature of superconducting cables from 23º K to 77º K. This
means cooling can be accomplished with inexpensive, abundant, and safe
liquid nitrogen. Manufacturers have increased the manufacturable length of
superconductor cables many times over during the past few years, and have
reduced the price considerably.

Superconducting cable once cost around $1,500 per kiloamp per meter (kA-m),
the standard industry measure of conducting capacity. American
Superconductor now sells wire for $200/kA-m, and expects to reduce the cost
to about $50/kA-m. Reaching $25 per kA-m, the current cost of copper cable,
will take a little longer.

The main reason for installing superconducting power lines is not to reduce
transmission losses. These losses amount to only about 7% and those savings
are offset by the energy required to cool the cables. The real advantage is
that the lack of resistance means that a given thickness of superconducting
cable can carry between two and 10 times as much power as the same
thickness of copper. This could provide a relatively cheap way to meet
rising demand for power in many applications.

Globalization looks to have a positive effect on wire and cable users,
moving industry towards one regulatory agency for construction and test
requirements. This should intensify competition and reduce prices.

Other inescapable and related trends in environmentalism and personal
safety will also affect wire and cable producers and consumers. "All
thermoplastic materials used for industrial, machinery, and building wire
will be halogen-free, low-smoke, and flame-retardant," suggests Gavilanes.
"All wire and cable products that use copper will have to be replaced with
oxygen free metals, superconductors, or fiber."

I think the world is in dire straights.

I know this is a statement which is typical of an old grumpy man,
not a young and optimistic one.

But let me say that if we had completely lossless energy transfer,
and if we had completely free and utterly abundant electricity,
and we had it all right now, world wide,
then men and women would then be able to focus on all the other things
that are wantable, and worth a struggle, and propelled by greed and marketting,
or by the desire to alleviate suffering, and extend lives indefinately.
All this stuff is not free or abundant,
and the resources of the natural environment including
its atmosphere, forests, minerals, and landscapes would be pillaged and raped even
far faster than they are now, which can only hasten our extinction, which is certain
to happen.
Who wants a world of 60 billions, with just one national park left
which is the size of a tennis court? Will everyone need to
be genetically modified, quite drastically, along with the species we depend upon,
and exploit mercilessly, to survive the changes we bring just because we chase after
dreams?

Patrick Turner.

"Shiva" wrote:

: "RdM" wrote in message
: ...
: "Ruud Broens" wrote:
:
: : "RdM" wrote
: - -
: : : My newsgroup (and internet) access has been sporadic of late, so I
: : : have quite a lot of catching-up to do ... my apologies to those with
: : : un-answered follow-ups, replies, emails ... I'm juggling survival and
: : : health issues, having been out of work for some time now, and haven't
: : : been able to focus on some of the current issues as much as I'd like!
: : :
: : : RdM
: :
: : Well, all strength to you, take it easy !
: : do a Ctrl-Alt-Del on your life and
: : see where you want to start up from
: : Cheers,
: : Rudy
:
: Hey, thanks for the kind thoughts! :=})
:
: Yes, I've been wondering about this ...
: [This application is not responding ... ] 8=?
:
: Or, the BSOD [Blue Screen Of Death] messages ...
: and "If the problem persists, contact the vendor" ,,,
: [especially ironic when it's a M$ sub-app causing it:-
: but perhaps when extrapolated to a human life,
: we may remember the old joke that runs something like
: "Unhappy with your Life? - Send it back to the Maker!"]
:
: Can we revise without a cold re-boot?
: Warm re-boots are certainly nicer ...
: Nice, note, also being a 'nix term.
:
: Ross
:
: Well, a warm reboot's been comin' in and out of fashion for a while now,
: crestin' in the late 60's / early 70's - ECT. Back then it was done with a
: full memory dump. Hey, progress - now it's done a bit more gracefully,
: re-initializin' a few services, with new refined watchdog procs takin' care
: of the loose ends & zombie chillun'.
: Both have their detractors, so there's choice #3: (pardon win lingo)
: "Safe mode". Most services & drivers are simply prevented from initializin'
: by a steady influx of (not so modern) psychopharma. The drawback to choice
: #3 is the tendency of many boxen resortin' to the *real* reset button.
: Can't say i'd be interested in choices 1, 2, or 3, though i *really* can
: relate to one problem early multi-user /multi-taskin' OS's were plagued
: with: *THRASHING*.
: Thrashin's a real amusing situation. Without goin' into techy details, a
: system looks dead to the users - no "jobs" are being done, sysadmin lookin'
: frazzled. But. The box is alive and well, but is spending all of it's time
: prioritizing & re-prioritizin' tasks (jobs, procs, threads, whatevers), with
: absolutely no time to actually *work* on any of the visible tasks. The
: common cure was, basically, pullin' the plug...
: Sound familiar to anyone?
: -dim (restorin' a seburg juke (and you thought guitah' amps were simple!))

LILOL! Thanks Dim!

Patrick Turner wrote:
: RdM wrote:
- -
: From http://tinyurl.com/ttth
: --
: Closer to home--and to reality--there are a number of present-day trends
: that can logically be extended to the future.
- -

: I think the world is in dire straights.

I think you are right. It could be even worse than we can imagine.

: I know this is a statement which is typical of an old grumpy man,
: not a young and optimistic one.

It is a viewpoint able to be pervceived by young and old alike :=})

: But let me say that if we had completely lossless energy transfer,
: and if we had completely free and utterly abundant electricity,
: and we had it all right now, world wide,

STOP RIGHT THERE!

: then men and women would then be able to focus on all the other things
: that are wantable, and worth a struggle, and propelled by greed and marketting,
: or by the desire to alleviate suffering, and extend lives indefinately.

THAT'S RIGHT!!
WE CAN'T POSSIBLY ALLOW THAT!

LET'S KEEP IT QUIET AND WEAPONISE THE TECHNOLOGY...
THEN WE WILL TAKE OVER THE WORLD AND MAKE IT OURS IN OUR IMAGE.
WE WILL CREATE AND SUPERVISE THE COLLECTIVE ... IT IS ALREADY HAPPENING!

THIS MESSAGE WILL SELF-DESTRUCT IN Z SECONDS.

: All this stuff is not free or abundant,
: and the resources of the natural environment including
: its atmosphere, forests, minerals, and landscapes would be pillaged and raped even
: far faster than they are now, which can only hasten our extinction, which is certain
: to happen.
: Who wants a world of 60 billions, with just one national park left
: which is the size of a tennis court? Will everyone need to
: be genetically modified, quite drastically, along with the species we depend upon,
: and exploit mercilessly, to survive the changes we bring just because we chase after
: dreams?
:
: Patrick Turner.

It's a question of love vs power.
The will to knowledge as love vs the will to knowledge as power.

Ross Matheson
- -
"Perseverance furthers"
I Ching

RdM wrote:

Patrick Turner wrote:
: RdM wrote:
- -
: From http://tinyurl.com/ttth
: --
: Closer to home--and to reality--there are a number of present-day trends
: that can logically be extended to the future.
- -

: I think the world is in dire straights.

I think you are right. It could be even worse than we can imagine.

: I know this is a statement which is typical of an old grumpy man,
: not a young and optimistic one.

It is a viewpoint able to be pervceived by young and old alike :=})

: But let me say that if we had completely lossless energy transfer,
: and if we had completely free and utterly abundant electricity,
: and we had it all right now, world wide,

STOP RIGHT THERE!

: then men and women would then be able to focus on all the other things
: that are wantable, and worth a struggle, and propelled by greed and marketting,
: or by the desire to alleviate suffering, and extend lives indefinately.

THAT'S RIGHT!!
WE CAN'T POSSIBLY ALLOW THAT!

LET'S KEEP IT QUIET AND WEAPONISE THE TECHNOLOGY...
THEN WE WILL TAKE OVER THE WORLD AND MAKE IT OURS IN OUR IMAGE.
WE WILL CREATE AND SUPERVISE THE COLLECTIVE ... IT IS ALREADY HAPPENING!

THIS MESSAGE WILL SELF-DESTRUCT IN Z SECONDS.

: All this stuff is not free or abundant,
: and the resources of the natural environment including
: its atmosphere, forests, minerals, and landscapes would be pillaged and raped even
: far faster than they are now, which can only hasten our extinction, which is certain
: to happen.
: Who wants a world of 60 billions, with just one national park left
: which is the size of a tennis court? Will everyone need to
: be genetically modified, quite drastically, along with the species we depend upon,
: and exploit mercilessly, to survive the changes we bring just because we chase after
: dreams?
:
: Patrick Turner.

It's a question of love vs power.
The will to knowledge as love vs the will to knowledge as power.

Ross Matheson
- -
"Perseverance feathers"
I Ching Bird

There is a lot more power than love in the world
power is quite different to love, which is merely
some kind of naive notion people percieve; it isn't tangible,
and often just don't exist, even though its supposed to.
We continually fool ourselves over love issues, since they are based on idealistic
hypothetical dreams and schemes which are 'castles in the air'.
And if anything, love propels the use of power,
and it will propel us right off the planet.

Power ain't free, I keep getting power bills.
Love ain't free either.
And what's the least said sentence in english language?
" Just lie down here luvvy, it won't cost yer anyfink".

Patrick Turner.