Kroomel is irrelevant in the long run and should he live as long as
Arthur Asher Miller, he will know that his whole career was a lot of
hot air. If he is such an engineer why doesn't he design and build
something that people really want instead of his ABX and PC audio
cheapening and debasing that just makes the sound crappier and more
commoditized. Sid Smith was a dick, but his designs are still studied,
just as those of other quality audio designers are. Kroo's ABX boxes
will be looked at as as nonsolutions to nonproblems with nonsupport
from noncustomers and noninterest from unenthusiasts.

"If they don't want to come, you can't stop them", said Yogi Berra. No
one is coming to Arny Krueger's party. Ed Dell is doing better but such
unabashed tweako- culto-gullibo forums as 'Vacuum Tube Valley'
flourish.

Kroomelvision is like the surly, self-obsessed Miller. The approach to
audio that builds on the classics is like Marilyn Monroe, perfect of
line, charming even in its foibles, pleasing to accompany one. A
glowing set of thoriated filaments, an intricately wound output
transformer, big speakers with light drivers and efficient use of
power-who couldn't look on in wonder, like Marilyn on the subway grate?


Of course, Marilyn wouldn't have stood a chance in ABX testing.
Britney Spears is more fit, so she must be a better performer than
Monroe in her prime-look at that famous Sam Shaw photo, Marilyn's
shoulder overhang covers the top of her dress straps. And she was only
27. What a hog.

Put Kroo, Aczel, Rich, all of 'em on one side and Pass, Manley,
Rozenblit, the tweakodesigners, on the other. One is Miller, the other
Monroe. See who will be remembered in years to come.

My money is on the tweaks. Even when they're wrong, they're more right
than the Objectivoids.

wrote:
Kroomel is irrelevant in the long run and should he live as long as
Arthur Asher Miller, he will know that his whole career was a lot of
hot air. If he is such an engineer why doesn't he design and build
something that people really want instead of his ABX and PC audio
cheapening and debasing that just makes the sound crappier and more
commoditized. Sid Smith was a dick, but his designs are still
studied,
just as those of other quality audio designers are. Kroo's ABX boxes
will be looked at as as nonsolutions to nonproblems with nonsupport
from noncustomers and noninterest from unenthusiasts.

"If they don't want to come, you can't stop them", said Yogi Berra.
No
one is coming to Arny Krueger's party. Ed Dell is doing better but
such
unabashed tweako- culto-gullibo forums as 'Vacuum Tube Valley'
flourish.

Kroomelvision is like the surly, self-obsessed Miller. The approach
to
audio that builds on the classics is like Marilyn Monroe, perfect of
line, charming even in its foibles, pleasing to accompany one. A
glowing set of thoriated filaments, an intricately wound output
transformer, big speakers with light drivers and efficient use of
power-who couldn't look on in wonder, like Marilyn on the subway
grate?


Of course, Marilyn wouldn't have stood a chance in ABX testing.
Britney Spears is more fit, so she must be a better performer than
Monroe in her prime-look at that famous Sam Shaw photo, Marilyn's
shoulder overhang covers the top of her dress straps. And she was
only
27. What a hog.

Put Kroo, Aczel, Rich, all of 'em on one side and Pass, Manley,
Rozenblit, the tweakodesigners, on the other. One is Miller, the
other
Monroe. See who will be remembered in years to come.

My money is on the tweaks. Even when they're wrong, they're more
right
than the Objectivoids.



Said of Marilyn Monroe:

"She's a vacuum with nipples" - Otto Preminger

and

"She has breasts of granite and a mind like a Gruyere cheese" - Billy
Wilder



With a little rewording, these could apply to the tweakodesigners. ;-)

Have you seen the swimming pool scene from the unfinished "Something's
Got to Give"?

Watch it.

Until then....

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...s=dvd&n=507846

# Starring: Marilyn Monroe, See more
# Encoding: Region 1 (U.S. and Canada only. This DVD will probably NOT
be viewable in other countries. Read more about DVD formats.)
# Format: Color, Widescreen, Box set
# Audio Encoding: Dolby Digital 5.1
# Rated: Unrated
# Studio: Twentieth Century Fox Home Video
# DVD Release Date: April 20, 2004
# DVD Features:

* Available Audio Tracks: English (Dolby Digital 5.1)
* Contains Bus Stop, How to Marry a Millionaire, There's No
Business Like Show Business, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, & The Seven Year
Itch
* Exclusive documentary "Marilyn Monroe: The Final Days"
* Forty minutes of exclusive, never-before-seen footage from
Marilyn's never-completed final film, "Something's Got to Give."

# ASIN: B000059GEK
# Other Formats: VHS
# Average Customer Review: 5 out of 5 stars Based on 35 reviews.

In The Final Days, producer-director Patty Ivins chronicles Monroe's
final, aborted feature film, Something's Got to Give, which was
ultimately shut down after the star was dismissed from the production.
Beyond Monroe's fragile emotional and physical health, this
well-crafted profile examines the financial crisis facing her studio as
well as the mounting frustration of meticulous director George Cukor
and his cast, including costar Dean Martin, as Monroe's absences drove
the shoot over budget. The documentary concludes with a 40-minute
reconstruction of footage completed for the feature, which would
subsequently be reshot as a vehicle for Doris Day and James Garner,
Move Over, Darling.

Richie Malesweski writes:

.. these could apply to the tweakodesigners. ;-)


What applies to you, Richie?

"He's an old hippie."

"He had a lot of ideas, but he never really made a success of himself."

"He has a good heart, but a poor work ethic."

"He's ****ed off."

"He's got a bad website."

How's biz, btw, Richie?

"He's afraid to stand up for his actions."

Richie said:
"I hesitate to put personal info out on the internet.."

Really. You wouldn't want some of your **** coming back on you.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Kroomel is irrelevant in the long run and should he live as long as
Arthur Asher Miller, he will know that his whole career was a lot of
hot air.
If he is such an engineer why doesn't he design and build
something that people really want instead of his ABX and PC audio
cheapening and debasing that just makes the sound crappier and more
commoditized.

Why is it you don't understand that for most of audio, the ability to
amplifiy, and playback an audio signal has been perfected? Amplifiers
have
been able to take whatever signal they are fed and reproduce it with
gain
and without audible distortion for decades. CD players are also
capable of
reproducing whatever has been encoded on them and recontruct it with
zero
audible distortion.

Why are you so eager to shoot the messenger, especially when he's only

telling you the truth?



Sid Smith was a dick, but his designs are still studied,
just as those of other quality audio designers are. Kroo's ABX boxes
will be looked at as as nonsolutions to nonproblems with nonsupport
from noncustomers and noninterest from unenthusiasts.


That must be why there are still companies like QSC that manufacture
them,
because there's no market for them.

Or why Harman uses DBT's to develop their products under their various
labels, because they have nonsolutions and non problems.

Why not look into some truth about audio instead of just repeating what
the
high end fools keep trying to brianwash the public with in order to
serve
the advertisers.

Do you suppose they don't review pro amps in SP becuase they are
inferior or
because they stomp the crap out of all the tweako stuff for 1/10th the
price?

If you could buy an amp that was sonicly indentical to a Krell or
whatever
ultra megabuck amp you choose except for the fact that it cost
$37,000.00
for 450 stereo watts of Krell power as opposed to $2399 for 2200 stereo

watts of QSC power if you bridgethem for mono.

Or you could save a little less money and go with a name you know
better
like Crown and get the K2 model, no fan, bridged mono will give you
1600
watts.

"If they don't want to come, you can't stop them", said Yogi Berra.
No
one is coming to Arny Krueger's party. Ed Dell is doing better but
such
unabashed tweako- culto-gullibo forums as 'Vacuum Tube Valley'
flourish.

Kroomelvision is like the surly, self-obsessed Miller. The approach
to
audio that builds on the classics is like Marilyn Monroe, perfect of
line, charming even in its foibles, pleasing to accompany one. A
glowing set of thoriated filaments, an intricately wound output
transformer, big speakers with light drivers and efficient use of
power-who couldn't look on in wonder, like Marilyn on the subway
grate?

So you like pudgy broads who take drugs.

Of course, Marilyn wouldn't have stood a chance in ABX testing.
Britney Spears is more fit, so she must be a better performer than
Monroe in her prime-look at that famous Sam Shaw photo, Marilyn's
shoulder overhang covers the top of her dress straps. And she was
only
27. What a hog.

I'd rather hear Marilyn sing, I'd rather see Britney naked.

I like my audio to be clean and distortion free with lots of reserve
power.

I think when I my current amp dies, I'll be going for a pro amp,
possibly a
4 channel one so I can power my main speakers and my subwoofer with one
amp,
or maybe just go all out with 2 PL 232 tha deliver 725 wpc at 8 ohms,
for
$1500.00 each.


Put Kroo, Aczel, Rich, all of 'em on one side and Pass, Manley,
Rozenblit, the tweakodesigners, on the other. One is Miller, the
other
Monroe. See who will be remembered in years to come.

More like the truth tellers vs. the marketing departments.

My money is on the tweaks. Even when they're wrong, they're more
right
than the Objectivoids.

Wrong again, but we've come to expect that from you.

Do you suppose so any studios use pro amps because they don't want
clean
power to power their speakers?

Do a search for QSC and notice how many recording studios have them.

The bigger studios can get any amp they want and yet they almost never
pick
the mega buck audiofool hyped stuff. They buy stuff that works for a
long
time and puts out clean power in spades. The most exotic amps you're
likely
to see in a recording studio are Brystons or maybe Haflers, still not
able
to pump it out like the QSC or Crowns.

If it's so perfected he should go work on some problem that isn't.

High end audio is like a Patek Phillippe or Rolex watch that has a
mechanical movement. Electronic watches that are just as accurate are
available much cheaper so is Rolex a fraud?

The Hafler is an inexpensive, and unexotic amplifier which has been a
workhorse for mid-budget operations and a DIY upgrader's favorite for
years. It works well like (most) all the stuff David Hafler did. But he
was never a high end vendor, he was never a Marantz/Smith/Sequerra or a
McIntosh/Gow or what have you. His products were good value reliable
mid-price products and that's good.

The Bryston is a well built semi-high-end unit that is attractive and
sounds very good. I recently auditioned one and it was a good sounding
amp with no big issues, but a George Kaye MOSCODE unit -which if I
remember began as an evolutionary mod to a Hafler!-definitely sounded
slightly better.

A lot of recording studios have QSCs, but then some have Carvins and
Peaveys too. If all amps sound the same, then I highly recommend the
Peavey CS-400 for low cost and ruggedness. So I guess Crown, QSC and
Bryston are ripoff artists for charging more than our friend, Hartley
Peavey. And Carmine and Vinnie in Escondido.

"Mike McKelvy" said:

Or you could save a little less money and go with a name you know
better
like Crown and get the K2 model, no fan, bridged mono will give you
1600
watts.


Maybe it's just me, but what use does a 1600 watts amplifier have in a
normal living room with moderately sensitive speakers?

Or 450 watts, for that matter?

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
news
"Mike McKelvy" said:

Or you could save a little less money and go with a name you know
better
like Crown and get the K2 model, no fan, bridged mono will give you
1600
watts.


Maybe it's just me, but what use does a 1600 watts amplifier have in a
normal living room with moderately sensitive speakers?

I thought we were talking high performance audio, in which case neither
"normal living room" nor "moderately sensitive speakers" are givens.

Or 450 watts, for that matter?

Same argument, only 5 dB less.

"Arny Krueger" said:

Or you could save a little less money and go with a name you know
better
like Crown and get the K2 model, no fan, bridged mono will give you
1600
watts.

Maybe it's just me, but what use does a 1600 watts amplifier have in a
normal living room with moderately sensitive speakers?

I thought we were talking high performance audio, in which case neither
"normal living room" nor "moderately sensitive speakers" are givens.



Is it a given that high performance audio is about 80 dB/w/m speakers
and rooms the size of a dance hall?

Cmon Arny, my current living room is roughly 11 by 5 meters. my
Maggies have resp. 84 and 86 dB/w/m efficiency and I'm quite happy
with the SPL derived from a mere 20 Veff amplifier.
That equals to 50 watts in 8 and 100 watts in 4 ohms.
Can't get the damn thing to clip!

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Sander deWaal wrote:

Cmon Arny, my current living room is roughly 11 by 5 meters. my
Maggies have resp. 84 and 86 dB/w/m efficiency and I'm quite happy
with the SPL derived from a mere 20 Veff amplifier.
That equals to 50 watts in 8 and 100 watts in 4 ohms.
Can't get the damn thing to clip!

You must listen at fairly low levels. Nothing wrong with
that, actually.

Howard Ferstler

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" said:

Or you could save a little less money and go with a name you know
better
like Crown and get the K2 model, no fan, bridged mono will give you
1600
watts.

Maybe it's just me, but what use does a 1600 watts amplifier have
in a normal living room with moderately sensitive speakers?

I thought we were talking high performance audio, in which case
neither "normal living room" nor "moderately sensitive speakers" are
givens.

Is it a given that high performance audio is about 80 dB/w/m speakers
and rooms the size of a dance hall?

Is that what it takes to absorb 1600 wpc?

Cmon Arny, my current living room is roughly 11 by 5 meters. my
Maggies have resp. 84 and 86 dB/w/m efficiency and I'm quite happy
with the SPL derived from a mere 20 Veff amplifier.

Is there a formal defintion of "quite happy" in terms of of SPL levels?

That equals to 50 watts in 8 and 100 watts in 4 ohms.

I've had no problem at all taking out the standard tweeter fuses in a pair
of Maggies in an approx 8 x 4 meter room, using a 100 wpc power amp. In
fact, I've got to discipline myself to NOT do it.

My own personal main speakers have similar efficiency ratings, and they get
only get what I consider to be moderately loud with a 125 wpc amp.

Consider a subwoofer composed of 95 dB/w speakers that are capable of
achieving 118 dB at 20 Hz at 8 meters. Back-of-envelope calculations say it
will take 23 dB above 1 watt to do 118 dB at 1 meter, and 9 more dB to get
that SPL 8 meters out from the speaker in a free field. That's 33 dB above
one watt, AKA approximately 2000 watts. The listening room might be a tad
smaller than yours.

To review, I'm talking about driving 95 dB/W speakers which on the lower
edge of high efficiency, and developing 118 dB at 20 Hz which is only about
50 dB above the threshold of hearing at that frequency. Total power required
is about 2 KW.

BTW this is not an imaginary configuration, is it similar to several that I
have heard in operation. Suffice it to say, they provide good, solid bass.
;-)

wrote in message
oups.com...
If it's so perfected he should go work on some problem that isn't.

High end audio is like a Patek Phillippe or Rolex watch that has a
mechanical movement. Electronic watches that are just as accurate are
available much cheaper so is Rolex a fraud?

The Hafler is an inexpensive, and unexotic amplifier which has been a
workhorse for mid-budget operations and a DIY upgrader's favorite for
years. It works well like (most) all the stuff David Hafler did. But he
was never a high end vendor, he was never a Marantz/Smith/Sequerra or a
McIntosh/Gow or what have you. His products were good value reliable
mid-price products and that's good.

There are several different types of Haflers. You shouldn't characterize
them in one statement. And how can you call one of the first MOSFET output
amps in the world unexotic? It carved new territory!

The original DH series was one of the first MOSFET designs, and suffers from
the so-called MOSFET mist.
The XL-series incorporates a distortion adjustment, the "Excellinear
circuit". Those amps have their adherents.
The Transnova circuit has no relationship to the other two, and was
developed by Jim Strickland when he was the owner/CEO of Acoustat. The
original Transnova amps were built on stainless steel chassis, which,
although this has no effect on sound quality, gives hint of what he aspired
to.

I find the XL series to be an excellent match for most hard-dome systems,
while the Transnova amps do very well with soft domes. System matching is
important, but the result can be extraordinary.

IMHO, the Acoustat design is one of the unrecognized jewels of modern audio;
unrecognized because of a marketing and packaging failure, not because of
the performance.

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 18:43:37 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

Cmon Arny, my current living room is roughly 11 by 5 meters. my
Maggies have resp. 84 and 86 dB/w/m efficiency and I'm quite happy
with the SPL derived from a mere 20 Veff amplifier.

Is there a formal defintion of "quite happy" in terms of of SPL levels?

Yes. It's the opposite of "quite unhappy".

In other words, if it does the job without causing complaint, then the
SPL levels are appropriate.

Seems pretty simple really.

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 18:43:37 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

My own personal main speakers have similar efficiency ratings, and they get
only get what I consider to be moderately loud with a 125 wpc amp.

Is there any formal definition of "moderately loud"?

Hope you catch my drift here. I think you just answered your previous
question.

Howard Ferstler said:

Cmon Arny, my current living room is roughly 11 by 5 meters. my
Maggies have resp. 84 and 86 dB/w/m efficiency and I'm quite happy
with the SPL derived from a mere 20 Veff amplifier.
That equals to 50 watts in 8 and 100 watts in 4 ohms.
Can't get the damn thing to clip!

You must listen at fairly low levels. Nothing wrong with
that, actually.


It hovers around 82...85 dB (unweighed) at the listening position.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

dave weil wrote:

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 18:43:37 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

My own personal main speakers have similar efficiency ratings, and they get
only get what I consider to be moderately loud with a 125 wpc amp.

Is there any formal definition of "moderately loud"?

Hope you catch my drift here. I think you just answered your previous
question.

I am not sure about Arny (who no doubt experiments with
high-power amps and high-power requirements much more than I
do), but it is a rare day indeed when the peak SPL levels
hit 100 dB with my music listening.

Most of the time, 90-dB peaks are the limit with all of my
musical listening, and with a lot of the baroque stuff I
listen to peaks in the neighborhood of what Sander gets with
his package are the norm.

Basically, this means that for music the somewhat more than
1,800-watt, surround-sound total I have available from my
main system (and even the seven channels plus subwoofer 920
watts I have from my middle system) is overkill in the
extreme. My living room system, with about 700 watts on five
channels, plus subwoofer, is probably powerful enough for
just about any musical use, with room to spare, actually.

Admittedly, when watching DVD action movies the levels get
somewhat above that (making some of the extra power on hand
possibly justifiable), but many audio buffs listen to
classical music at much higher levels than what one
encounters at live performances. I suppose that rock, and
even some jazz (my mind goes back to a Stan Kenton concert I
attended years ago) gets a LOT louder.

Howard Ferstler

"Paul Dormer" wrote in message
news
"Howard Ferstler" emitted :

I am not sure about Arny (who no doubt experiments with
high-power amps and high-power requirements much more than I
do), but it is a rare day indeed when the peak SPL levels
hit 100 dB with my music listening.

According to reliable sources, the peak dynamic range in classic
percussion can max out to 118dB. What is your NC level, fool?

It's probably quite a bit better than a room with 2,000 people sitting,
fidgeting, breathing, farting, coughing, digesting; along with 100 people
standing, sitting, blowing, sawing, and beating on instruments.

"Paul Dormer" wrote in message

I asked Ho'ward :
According to reliable sources, the peak dynamic range in classic
percussion can max out to 118dB. What is your NC level, fool?

"Arny Krueger" snorted :
It's probably quite a bit better than a room with 2,000 people
sitting, fidgeting, breathing, farting, coughing, digesting; along
with 100 people standing, sitting, blowing, sawing, and beating on
instruments.

What is the meaning of this outburst?

What outburst? Dormer, are you having an attack of schoolmarm?

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

It's probably quite a bit better than a room with 2,000 people sitting,
fidgeting, breathing, farting, coughing, digesting; along with 100 people
standing, sitting, blowing, sawing, and beating on instruments.


did that make you really, really hot?



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"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

It's probably quite a bit better than a room with 2,000 people
sitting, fidgeting, breathing, farting, coughing, digesting; along
with 100 people standing, sitting, blowing, sawing, and beating on
instruments.

did that make you really, really hot?

No, I'm in it for the music.

Projecting your fantasies on me again, Art?

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

It's probably quite a bit better than a room with 2,000 people
sitting, fidgeting, breathing, farting, coughing, digesting; along
with 100 people standing, sitting, blowing, sawing, and beating on
instruments.

did that make you really, really hot?

No, I'm in it for the music.

Projecting your fantasies on me again, Art?



"100 people standing, sitting, blowing, sawing, and beating on
instruments." Gee Arny, that was quite a charitable description
of 'music'.



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"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

It's probably quite a bit better than a room with 2,000 people
sitting, fidgeting, breathing, farting, coughing, digesting; along
with 100 people standing, sitting, blowing, sawing, and beating on
instruments.

did that make you really, really hot?

No, I'm in it for the music.

Projecting your fantasies on me again, Art?



"100 people standing, sitting, blowing, sawing, and beating on
instruments." Gee Arny, that was quite a charitable description
of 'music'.

You'd know it was quite factual if you ever went to live concerts, Art.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

It's probably quite a bit better than a room with 2,000 people
sitting, fidgeting, breathing, farting, coughing, digesting; along
with 100 people standing, sitting, blowing, sawing, and beating on
instruments.

did that make you really, really hot?

No, I'm in it for the music.

Projecting your fantasies on me again, Art?



"100 people standing, sitting, blowing, sawing, and beating on
instruments." Gee Arny, that was quite a charitable description
of 'music'.

You'd know it was quite factual if you ever went to live concerts, Art.


That is exactly your problem.
To you, music is nothing more than
the factual occurance of people
blowing through, beating upon and sawing
against instruments. You would have as
much fun listening to a house being built,
for all it matters to you.



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High end audio is like a Patek Phillippe or Rolex watch that has a
mechanical movement. Electronic watches that are just as accurate are
available much cheaper so is Rolex a fraud?

No, it's just like comparing a CD player to a turntable. They will
both reproduce music, but the Rolex does it less accurately for a lot
more money.

The Hafler is an inexpensive, and unexotic amplifier which has been a
workhorse for mid-budget operations and a DIY upgrader's favorite for
years. It works well like (most) all the stuff David Hafler did. But
he
was never a high end vendor, he was never a Marantz/Smith/Sequerra or
a
McIntosh/Gow or what have you. His products were good value reliable
mid-price products and that's good.

All they have to do is reproduce the signal with inaudible distortion.

If it does that it's as exotic as it needs to be, nothing else is
required.

You think the Bryston sounds better but I bet you never did a proper
dbt to find out.

A lot of recording studios have QSCs, but then some have Carvins and
Peaveys too. If all amps sound the same, then I highly recommend the
Peavey CS-400 for low cost and ruggedness. So I guess Crown, QSC and
Bryston are ripoff artists for charging more than our friend, Hartley
Peavey. And Carmine and Vinnie in Escondido

It's a free market, nobody has to buy the more expensive unit. Do they
all drive difficult loads with the same ease?

Sander deWaal Mar 1, 12:34 pm show options

Newsgroups: rec.audio.opinion
From: Sander deWaal - Find messages by this author

Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:34:43 +0100
Local: Tues, Mar 1 2005 12:34 pm
Subject: Kroomel, Like Arthur Miller, Is-Irrelevant-In The Long Run

Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse

"Mike McKelvy" said:



Or you could save a little less money and go with a name you know
better
like Crown and get the K2 model, no fan, bridged mono will give you
1600
watts.


Maybe it's just me, but what use does a 1600 watts amplifier have in a
normal living room with moderately sensitive speakers?

Or 450 watts, for that matter?


--

Didn't you see Cal's post stating that you need 3500 watts to avoid
ever clipping?

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

It's probably quite a bit better than a room with 2,000 people
sitting, fidgeting, breathing, farting, coughing, digesting;
along with 100 people standing, sitting, blowing, sawing, and
beating on instruments.

did that make you really, really hot?

No, I'm in it for the music.

Projecting your fantasies on me again, Art?



"100 people standing, sitting, blowing, sawing, and beating on
instruments." Gee Arny, that was quite a charitable description
of 'music'.

You'd know it was quite factual if you ever went to live concerts,
Art.

That is exactly your problem.


Yes, that's my problem - I spend too much time listening to live music.

To you, music is nothing more than
the factual occurance of people
blowing through, beating upon and sawing
against instruments.

You're completely delusional, Art. I love the whole experience of listening
to music, live or recorded. Not only do I go to performances, I rehearse
with musicians. Not only am I a music listener, but I'm a system builder, a
recording maker and at times even a music maker.

However, music can be like resturant food - not everybody can enjoy it if
they see how it is made. I don't check my brain at the door when I get
involved with music. I know what the component parts are and how they are
made and fitted together. IMO it's all good.

You would have as much fun listening to a house being built,
for all it matters to you.

Art, could you write something that you obviously know less about? I know
you've been practicing up for this stupid post for several years! ;-)

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

It's probably quite a bit better than a room with 2,000 people
sitting, fidgeting, breathing, farting, coughing, digesting;
along with 100 people standing, sitting, blowing, sawing, and
beating on instruments.

did that make you really, really hot?

No, I'm in it for the music.

Projecting your fantasies on me again, Art?



"100 people standing, sitting, blowing, sawing, and beating on
instruments." Gee Arny, that was quite a charitable description
of 'music'.

You'd know it was quite factual if you ever went to live concerts,
Art.

That is exactly your problem.


Yes, that's my problem - I spend too much time listening to live music.

To you, music is nothing more than
the factual occurance of people
blowing through, beating upon and sawing
against instruments.

You're completely delusional, Art. I love the whole experience of
listening
to music, live or recorded. Not only do I go to performances, I rehearse
with musicians. Not only am I a music listener, but I'm a system builder,
a
recording maker and at times even a music maker.

However, music can be like resturant food - not everybody can enjoy it if
they see how it is made. I don't check my brain at the door when I get
involved with music. I know what the component parts are and how they are
made and fitted together. IMO it's all good.

You would have as much fun listening to a house being built,
for all it matters to you.

Art, could you write something that you obviously know less about? I know
you've been practicing up for this stupid post for several years! ;-)



I hope you are having fun in the music hall, with your favorite coughers,
farters, sawers and blowers.



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Arny Krueger wrote:
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

It's probably quite a bit better than a room with 2,000 people
sitting, fidgeting, breathing, farting, coughing, digesting;
along with 100 people standing, sitting, blowing, sawing, and
beating on instruments.

did that make you really, really hot?

No, I'm in it for the music.

Projecting your fantasies on me again, Art?



"100 people standing, sitting, blowing, sawing, and beating on
instruments." Gee Arny, that was quite a charitable description
of 'music'.

You'd know it was quite factual if you ever went to live concerts,
Art.

That is exactly your problem.


Yes, that's my problem - I spend too much time listening to live
music.


I guess you didn't really catch the jist of Art's point. The problem he
sees is that you see live music as nothing more than people standing,
sitting, blowing, sawing and beating on instruments.He didn't say that
listening to too much live music is a problem, whatever too much might
be. But.... do you really consider listening to the amount of live
music you listen to to be a "problem?" What live music have you been
listening to in such excess other than the music played at your church?




To you, music is nothing more than
the factual occurance of people
blowing through, beating upon and sawing
against instruments.

You're completely delusional, Art. I love the whole experience of
listening
to music, live or recorded. Not only do I go to performances, I
rehearse
with musicians.


Other than the ones at your church?



Not only am I a music listener, but I'm a system builder,


Kind of like anyone with a stereo that wasn't a rack job.



a
recording maker and at times even a music maker.


Music maker? You compose? You play? Do tell.




However, music can be like resturant food - not everybody can enjoy
it if
they see how it is made.


What resturants are you going to?


I don't check my brain at the door when I get
involved with music. I know what the component parts are and how they
are
made and fitted together. IMO it's all good.



What do you mean "its all good?" Technically you are claiming all music
is good. I quite disagree. Maybe you meant something else?





You would have as much fun listening to a house being built,
for all it matters to you.

Art, could you write something that you obviously know less about? I
know
you've been practicing up for this stupid post for several years! ;-)

I'm not sure you really should be getting after Art's knowledge of
music. He didn't mistake "Fold es Eg" for a band and then comment on
their style (chuckle).



Scott Wheeler

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

:
: However, music can be with music
: like resturant food - not everybody can enjoy it if
: they see how it is made. I don't check my brain at the door when I get
: involved . I know what the component parts are and how they are
: made and fitted together. IMO it's all good.
:
dunno what kinda food you're portraying here, Arny, but eh..
no thanks ;-),
Rudy

This was a McIntosh estimate, given a small room and the large
McIntosh speakers. The point was that a total lack of clipping is an
impossible and ridiculous goal, unless some form of compression or peak
limiting is used.

"Mike McKelvy" said:

Didn't you see Cal's post stating that you need 3500 watts to avoid
ever clipping?


Yup, wasn't that said with tongue-in-cheek?
Anyway, based on my own listening experience, 50 to 100 watts in my
current room is enough for me.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "