If I have two drivers, one of which is 8 ohm, the other being 4 ohm,
and I wire them in parallel, then put 100 watts through them, how many
watts will go through each driver?
I assume it is not merely 33, 67, respectively.

--Bryan

wrote:
If I have two drivers, one of which is 8 ohm, the other being 4 ohm,
and I wire them in parallel, then put 100 watts through them, how many
watts will go through each driver?
I assume it is not merely 33, 67, respectively.

Why not? At an output level where the total is 100W the 4 ohm will get
67 and the 8 ohm will get 33. (roughly - the quoted impedances are only
nominal)

Beware that the amplifier is seeing a load of 2.7 ohms when you do that!

--
Anahata
-+- http://www.treewind.co.uk
Home: 01638 720444 Mob: 07976 263827

wrote:

If I have two drivers, one of which is 8 ohm, the other being 4 ohm,
and I wire them in parallel, then put 100 watts through them, how many
watts will go through each driver?
I assume it is not merely 33, 67, respectively.

Um, oh gosh! Let's see, the total R (Rt) presented to the amp is easy,
since:

1/Rt = 1/R1 + 1/R2, or Rt = R1R2/(R1 + R2), or Rt = 8*4/(8+4) = 2.67 Ohms

But the 100W rating of the amp is into a specified load, maybe 8 Ohms,
maybe 4 Ohms, maybe less, dunno w/o looking at it's specs! You can *get*
more P out of any amp, believe me I know! The power rating on amplifiers
is into a specific load at a specific THD rating. Overdrive the amp and
it'll do it, but it will produce a signal of a lot more THD! Also driving
a lower impedance load will cause the amp to put out more than the rated
power, always.

Are you trying not to overdrive the speaker drivers, to avoid blowing the
cones? Contact me if it's a real concern. After all Bryan, I *am* a EE by
degree! ;-)

John_Kuthe...

Yes, it would be 33 Watts for the 8 ohm driver and 67 Watts for the 4
ohm driver. Here's a proof (using resistances instead of impedances):

The 100 Watts is going to see the 8 ohm and 4 ohm resistor as one
resistive load. The equation for total resistance for two resistors in
parallel is 1/Rt=1/Ra + 1/Rb. Therefore the total resistance of these
two resistors is 8/3 ohms (or 2.67 ohms). Notice it's less than either
resistor separately.

So through P=IV and ohms law of V=IR, you can get P=(Isquared)R.
Therefore, you can find the total current. 100 Watts = (Isquared)(2.67)
I come up with current total of 6.12 amps. Here I'm treating the two
loads as one.

We can then go back and find the total voltage across each resistor with
P=IV. 100 watts = (6.12 amps) V. Total volatge therefore equals 16.34
volts. And of course the resistors have the same voltage across them
since they are in parallel.

Since P=IV, you also can state with ohms law that P=(Vsquared)/R.
Therefore the power across the 8 ohms resistor is P=(16.34squared)/8
which equals 33. And the power across the 4 ohm resistor is
P=(16.34squared)/4 which is 67.

You could also go back and prove the same relationship by finding the
current through each resistor individually.

This proof is overly long, but I wanted to walk you through it. There
are other ways of arriving at the same answer, of course. Drivers are
of course theoretically inductive loads instead of resistive loads, but
in this theorectical case the calculations are the same.

In the real world, of course, speakers have both a resistive and
reactive component which gets you into power factors at specific
frequencies, but I don't think it's worth getting into that here. Just
know that each speaker will affect the frequency response of the other
because a complex impedance varies throughout the frequency range. I'm
guessing this is a trivial difference, but someone can correct me here
if I'm wrong. Anyway, people mostly match their speakers for this very
reason.

WARNING: The real issue here (as you may see) is that you are putting
an effective 2.67 load across your amp. Most amps are only rated for a
4 ohm load or higher. So while your drivers may be fine and be high
enough wattage, your amp may melt down becuase you are drawing too much
current from it.

Cheers,
Trevor de Clercq

wrote:
If I have two drivers, one of which is 8 ohm, the other being 4 ohm,
and I wire them in parallel, then put 100 watts through them, how many
watts will go through each driver?
I assume it is not merely 33, 67, respectively.

--Bryan

John Kuthe wrote:
wrote:


If I have two drivers, one of which is 8 ohm, the other being 4 ohm,
and I wire them in parallel, then put 100 watts through them, how many
watts will go through each driver?
I assume it is not merely 33, 67, respectively.


Um, oh gosh! Let's see, the total R (Rt) presented to the amp is easy,
since:

1/Rt = 1/R1 + 1/R2, or Rt = R1R2/(R1 + R2), or Rt = 8*4/(8+4) = 2.67 Ohms

But the 100W rating of the amp is into a specified load, maybe 8 Ohms,
maybe 4 Ohms, maybe less, dunno w/o looking at it's specs! You can *get*
more P out of any amp, believe me I know! The power rating on amplifiers
is into a specific load at a specific THD rating. Overdrive the amp and
it'll do it, but it will produce a signal of a lot more THD! Also driving
a lower impedance load will cause the amp to put out more than the rated
power, always.


One might add that the amplifier may not be designed to work into the
2.7-ohm load, so using it that way for very long (more power = much less
time) could overheat it and cause it to fail.

anahata wrote:
wrote:
If I have two drivers, one of which is 8 ohm,
the other being 4 ohm,
and I wire them in parallel,
then put 100 watts through them, how many
watts will go through each driver?
I assume it is not merely 33, 67, respectively.

Why not? At an output level where the total is
100W the 4 ohm will get 67 and the 8 ohm will get 33.
(roughly - the quoted impedances are only nominal)

Beware that the amplifier is seeing a load of
2.7 ohms when you do that!

Thank you. The power amp is rated for 8, 4 or 2 ohm operation, but I
am aware that only 2.7 ohms means don't turn the volume knob up past
about 5 or 6.

--
Anahata

--Bryan

In article .com writes:

If I have two drivers, one of which is 8 ohm, the other being 4 ohm,
and I wire them in parallel, then put 100 watts through them, how many
watts will go through each driver?
I assume it is not merely 33, 67, respectively.

Sure it is. That's how Ohm's Law works.

But you may not actually be able to put 100 watts into them, if you're
basing that on the fact that you have a "100 W" amplifier. The
parallel combination of the two speakers is 2.7 ohms. Many amplifiers
can't put out their full rated power into an impedance that low. Some
can. Some can put out more than their nominal 4-8 ohm rated power.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Pan paniscus wrote:
anahata wrote:

wrote:

If I have two drivers, one of which is 8 ohm,
the other being 4 ohm,
and I wire them in parallel,
then put 100 watts through them, how many
watts will go through each driver?
I assume it is not merely 33, 67, respectively.

Why not? At an output level where the total is
100W the 4 ohm will get 67 and the 8 ohm will get 33.
(roughly - the quoted impedances are only nominal)

Beware that the amplifier is seeing a load of
2.7 ohms when you do that!


Thank you. The power amp is rated for 8, 4 or 2 ohm operation, but I
am aware that only 2.7 ohms means don't turn the volume knob up past
about 5 or 6.


the "volume" knob only affects input sensitivity
it has no effect on the amp output or load
the output section of your amp has no idea what position the "volume "
control is in
You can still drive the amp deep into overload even witht he "volume"
knob at 1, with a sufficently strong input

But you may not actually be able to put 100 watts into them, if you're
basing that on the fact that you have a "100 W" amplifier.The
parallel combination of the two speakers is 2.7 ohms. Many amplifiers
can't put out their full rated power into an impedance that low. Some
can. Some can put out more than their nominal 4-8 ohm rated power.

Krells do. The bigger ones keep doubling their output with each halving of the
load impedance, down to 1 ohm. (At least, that's what the specs state.)

Thanks. I think I'll play it safe and just go with the smaller 8 ohm
mains. Much more idiot proof.

--Bryan

Mike Rivers wrote:


Sure it is. That's how Ohm's Law works.

Since we are talking about AC here, doesn't the applied frequency also
effect these numbers some, and the balance between differently rated
speakers?

Even if you go ahead, ignore all threaded advice, and parallel the two
different ohms speakers, and the 100W amplifier survives, I reckon the
four-ohm one will drown out the eight-ohm one by its very loudness!
Are you by any chance hiding from us curious that you have 2 pairs of each
type (stereo)?
Jim
"Joe Sensor" wrote in message
...
Mike Rivers wrote:


Sure it is. That's how Ohm's Law works.

Since we are talking about AC here, doesn't the applied frequency also
effect these numbers some, and the balance between differently rated
speakers?

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:18:31 -0500, Trevor de Clercq
wrote:

Yes, it would be 33 Watts for the 8 ohm driver and 67 Watts for the 4
ohm driver. Here's a proof (using resistances instead of impedances):

...

This proof is overly long, but I wanted to walk you through it. There
are other ways of arriving at the same answer, of course. Drivers are
of course theoretically inductive loads instead of resistive loads, but
in this theorectical case the calculations are the same.

In the real world, of course, speakers have both a resistive and
reactive component which gets you into power factors at specific
frequencies, but I don't think it's worth getting into that here. Just
know that
each speaker will affect the frequency response of the other
^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^ ^^^^^
because a complex impedance varies throughout the frequency range. I'm
guessing this is a trivial difference, but someone can correct me here
if I'm wrong. Anyway, people mostly match their speakers for this very
reason.

Just to point out a mistake in an otherwise excellent post (someone
will come along and point out that correcting others' posts is the
purpose of Usenet...), two important assumptions are that 1. the
speakers are in parallel, as you said earlier, and 2. the amplifier
has such a high damping factor (or equivalently, low output impedance)
that it doesn't matter what the load is on it (within its rating,
which the OP later said goes down to 2 ohms), so that whatever
changing impedance one speaker has in relation to frequency, it won't
affect the voltage to the other speaker, thus its acoustic output
won't be affected by the other speaker.
The rest of this post shows you know what you're talking about, so
I can only guess you either forgot the word "not" in the above, or you
somehow got mentally turned around and were thinking the speakers were
wired in series.


WARNING: The real issue here (as you may see) is that you are putting
an effective 2.67 load across your amp. Most amps are only rated for a
4 ohm load or higher. So while your drivers may be fine and be high
enough wattage, your amp may melt down becuase you are drawing too much
current from it.

Cheers,
Trevor de Clercq

wrote:
If I have two drivers, one of which is 8 ohm, the other being 4 ohm,
and I wire them in parallel, then put 100 watts through them, how many
watts will go through each driver?
I assume it is not merely 33, 67, respectively.

--Bryan

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

Jim Gregory wrote:

Even if you go ahead, ignore all threaded advice, and parallel the two
different ohms speakers, and the 100W amplifier survives, I reckon the
four-ohm one will drown out the eight-ohm one by its very loudness!

Assuming equal efficiency, the difference between the two is 3 dB.

Good assumption, however.............
The total load for an 8 and 4 ohm driver in parrallel is actually 2.67
Ohms...............
So, Your amp may be putting out more than 100watts with that load.

Greg Dwinell
Orange Sound



wrote in message
oups.com...
If I have two drivers, one of which is 8 ohm, the other being 4 ohm,
and I wire them in parallel, then put 100 watts through them, how many
watts will go through each driver?
I assume it is not merely 33, 67, respectively.

--Bryan

In article writes:

Since we are talking about AC here, doesn't the applied frequency also
effect these numbers some, and the balance between differently rated
speakers?

Yes, but you have to work with nominal numbers if you want to ever get
the job done. No 8 ohm speaker is really 8 ohms except maybe at a
couple of frequencies, and it can change with the cabinet design (how
that affects the resonance and damping of the speaker).

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

wrote in message
oups.com...
If I have two drivers, one of which is 8 ohm, the other being 4 ohm,
and I wire them in parallel, then put 100 watts through them, how many
watts will go through each driver?
I assume it is not merely 33, 67, respectively.

Never assume. It is indeed "merely 33, 67 respectively." Since the
voltage across both dirvers is the same, the power dissipated will be
inversely proportional to the resistance. Since the total power is 100
watts, 1/3 will go to the 8 ohm driver and 2/3 to the 4 ohm driver.

Norm Strong

wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
If I have two drivers, one of which is 8 ohm, the other being 4
ohm,
and I wire them in parallel, then put 100 watts through them, how
many
watts will go through each driver?
I assume it is not merely 33, 67, respectively.

Never assume. It is indeed "merely 33, 67 respectively." Since the

voltage across both dirvers is the same, the power dissipated will be

inversely proportional to the resistance. Since the total power is
100
watts, 1/3 will go to the 8 ohm driver and 2/3 to the 4 ohm driver.

Thanks for your help, but I got lucky today and now own four B-52
cabinets with an 18 and horn, so it'll be four nice safe ohms per side.
Super deal. At Guitar Center's Presidents Day sale I got all 4 for
under $900! Together with the QSC RMX-2450 we should be nice and loud

Norm Strong

--Bryan

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:08:29 -0800, Pan paniscus wrote:

Thanks for your help, but I got lucky today and now own four B-52
cabinets with an 18 and horn, so it'll be four nice safe ohms per side.
Super deal. At Guitar Center's Presidents Day sale I got all 4 for
under $900! Together with the QSC RMX-2450 we should be nice and loud

Mother****er! I had the day off. I woulda sold you that **** cheap. I
actually brought back my PA this weekend from Ohio. Been using a RMX2450
for a coupla years on a pair of EV Eliminator (15in 2 ways). Does real
well, but a second set of highpacks would help out.

Congrats on your system though.

- dsb


--
"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural
deficiency in moral fibre, and that I an therefore excused from saving
Universes." -- Ford Prefect

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:52:14 -0800, Pan paniscus wrote:

Thanks. I think I'll play it safe and just go with the smaller 8 ohm
mains. Much more idiot proof.

They'll always build the better idiot.

- dsb


--
"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural
deficiency in moral fibre, and that I an therefore excused from saving
Universes." -- Ford Prefect

DuchovnySexBomb wrote:
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:08:29 -0800, Pan paniscus wrote:

Thanks for your help, but I got lucky today and now own four B-52
cabinets with an 18 and horn, so it'll be four nice safe ohms per
side.
Super deal. At Guitar Center's Presidents Day sale I got all 4
for
under $900! Together with the QSC RMX-2450 we should be nice and
loud

Mother****er! I had the day off. I woulda sold you that **** cheap.

Not cheaper than that. Jeez, the list on those cabinets is $999 each,
or are you saying you have power amp(s) you want to sell cheap?

I actually brought back my PA this weekend from Ohio. Been using a
RMX2450
for a coupla years on a pair of EV Eliminator (15in 2 ways). Does
real
well, but a second set of highpacks would help out.

Congrats on your system though.

Thanks. It's nice not to have to depend on venues for my vocals. With
this, every single syllable is clear. One thing I was thinking kind of
sucked about all this money we spent is that some of my mates are
wanting to do more bar shows to recoup the money. 21+ ones. Then I
had an epiphany. Rather than feeling slimy about this, I should
embrace it. Hey, if we are going to get paid a hundred dollars or more
to get songs like "Coathanger Days" and "Ronald Reagan Rot in Hell"
heard by whomever, great, even with the fact that I have to breathe
that **** (cigarette smoke) for over an hour.

- dsb

--Bryan

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:42:52 -0800, Pan paniscus wrote:

Not cheaper than that. Jeez, the list on those cabinets is $999 each,
or are you saying you have power amp(s) you want to sell cheap?

Nah, I just got my **** back out of storage so I'm not quite ready to part
with it yet. I just woulda given you the fattest discount possible on the
amp - those 4 cabs under 900 bucks was probably right at or (most
likely) below our cost. Which GC did you go to?


Thanks. It's nice not to have to depend on venues for my vocals. With
this, every single syllable is clear. One thing I was thinking kind of
sucked about all this money we spent is that some of my mates are
wanting to do more bar shows to recoup the money. 21+ ones. Then I had
an epiphany. Rather than feeling slimy about this, I should embrace it.
Hey, if we are going to get paid a hundred dollars or more to get songs
like "Coathanger Days" and "Ronald Reagan Rot in Hell" heard by
whomever, great, even with the fact that I have to breathe that ****
(cigarette smoke) for over an hour.

That was pretty much our motivating factor to getting a PA as well. The
Cincy area music scene was pretty fickle, and if you were unfortunate
enough to be in Oxford you had better be playing acoustic jam **** if you
even wanted to get a show, much less make any money at it. We had to
organize everything ourselves if we wanted to play locally, otherwise we
were driving 2-4 hours to play out.

Lugging around all that **** is a bitch though.

Don't feel too bad about bar shows... there's nothing wrong with making
some money off of music, especially if there's some irony to it. The few
dollars we've ever made after gas and beer went directly into maintaining
our gear... strings, cables and 9-volts are cheap, but they're not free.

Besides, you could always invest in Michael Jackson style masks to help
with the smoke inhalation.

- dsb


--
"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural
deficiency in moral fibre, and that I an therefore excused from saving
Universes." -- Ford Prefect

Ben,

I guess I was just not assuming that the amp was for all practical
purposes an ideal voltage source. My post was written before we knew
that the amp was rated for operation down to two ohms. As I said, it
would be a trivial difference, but perhaps it is so trivial I shouldn't
even have bothered mentioning it. Without knowing the output impedance
of the amp, though, it's tough to say 100%. Of course most modern amps
are designed such that their output impedance is low enough where it's
not a factor. But you are right, I should have left that part of my
post out. Why unnecessarily overcomplicate the issue? Sometimes I
overthink problems....

Cheers,
Trevor de Clercq

Ben Bradley wrote:
On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:18:31 -0500, Trevor de Clercq
wrote:


Yes, it would be 33 Watts for the 8 ohm driver and 67 Watts for the 4
ohm driver. Here's a proof (using resistances instead of impedances):


...


This proof is overly long, but I wanted to walk you through it. There
are other ways of arriving at the same answer, of course. Drivers are
of course theoretically inductive loads instead of resistive loads, but
in this theorectical case the calculations are the same.

In the real world, of course, speakers have both a resistive and
reactive component which gets you into power factors at specific
frequencies, but I don't think it's worth getting into that here. Just
know that
each speaker will affect the frequency response of the other

^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ ^^ ^^^ ^^^^^

because a complex impedance varies throughout the frequency range. I'm
guessing this is a trivial difference, but someone can correct me here
if I'm wrong. Anyway, people mostly match their speakers for this very
reason.


Just to point out a mistake in an otherwise excellent post (someone
will come along and point out that correcting others' posts is the
purpose of Usenet...), two important assumptions are that 1. the
speakers are in parallel, as you said earlier, and 2. the amplifier
has such a high damping factor (or equivalently, low output impedance)
that it doesn't matter what the load is on it (within its rating,
which the OP later said goes down to 2 ohms), so that whatever
changing impedance one speaker has in relation to frequency, it won't
affect the voltage to the other speaker, thus its acoustic output
won't be affected by the other speaker.
The rest of this post shows you know what you're talking about, so
I can only guess you either forgot the word "not" in the above, or you
somehow got mentally turned around and were thinking the speakers were
wired in series.



WARNING: The real issue here (as you may see) is that you are putting
an effective 2.67 load across your amp. Most amps are only rated for a
4 ohm load or higher. So while your drivers may be fine and be high
enough wattage, your amp may melt down becuase you are drawing too much
current from it.

Cheers,
Trevor de Clercq

wrote:

If I have two drivers, one of which is 8 ohm, the other being 4 ohm,
and I wire them in parallel, then put 100 watts through them, how many
watts will go through each driver?
I assume it is not merely 33, 67, respectively.

--Bryan


-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

DuchovnySexBomb wrote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:42:52 -0800, Pan paniscus wrote:

Not cheaper than that. Jeez, the list on those cabinets is $999
each,
or are you saying you have power amp(s) you want to sell cheap?

Nah, I just got my **** back out of storage so I'm not quite ready to
part
with it yet. I just woulda given you the fattest discount possible on
the
amp - those 4 cabs under 900 bucks was probably right at or (most
likely) below our cost. Which GC did you go to?

Crestwood, Missouri. The suburb where I lived from grade school
through high school, and for better or worse produced a lot of StL's
early punk rock.

Thanks. It's nice not to have to depend on venues for my vocals.
With
this, every single syllable is clear. One thing I was thinking
kind of
sucked about all this money we spent is that some of my mates are
wanting to do more bar shows to recoup the money. 21+ ones. Then
I had
an epiphany. Rather than feeling slimy about this, I should
embrace it.
Hey, if we are going to get paid a hundred dollars or more to get
songs
like "Coathanger Days" and "Ronald Reagan Rot in Hell" heard by
whomever, great, even with the fact that I have to breathe that
****
(cigarette smoke) for over an hour.

That was pretty much our motivating factor to getting a PA as well.
The
Cincy area music scene was pretty fickle, and if you were unfortunate
enough to be in Oxford you had better be playing acoustic jam **** if
you
even wanted to get a show, much less make any money at it. We had to
organize everything ourselves if we wanted to play locally, otherwise
we
were driving 2-4 hours to play out.

I have a real problem with the sound at most places. You can almost
NEVER hear the vocals. If I have to bring sound reinforcement
dedicated to vocals, I will. There is also that "play anywhere that
has an AC outlet" thing.

Lugging around all that **** is a bitch though.

Yeah, a bitch because I have to listen to all my bandmates bitch about
too many pieces of equipment. We have this old Fender PA-135
http://www.harmony-central.com/Guita...PA_135-01.html and
the guys bitch about bringing it, even though the horn sounds great
through it, and I don't want the horn exclusively through the PA
because then it competes with my--and everyone else's for that
matter--vocals.

Don't feel too bad about bar shows... there's nothing wrong with
making
some money off of music, especially if there's some irony to it. The
few
dollars we've ever made after gas and beer went directly into
maintaining
our gear... strings, cables and 9-volts are cheap, but they're not
free.

I have no problem making money, but I just don't like the age
restrictions. When I was (I guess) 20, me and Shira got in to see the
Ramones in an unconventional and illegal fashion. That shouldn't have
had to be. Besides, 18-20 YOs are busy getting their balls shot off
over in Iraq right now, but they aren't old enough to get in to see us?

Besides, you could always invest in Michael Jackson style masks to
help
with the smoke inhalation.

You know, I might bitch, but I'm OK with dealing with it if I have to
if I'm being paid. I'm not going to breathe the **** if I'm not, and I
certainly can't think of a single band I'd be willing to breathe it to
see. If I'm going to make an exception, it's very likely to involve
strippers. THere's a nice venue here called The Lemp Neighborhood Arts
Center
http://www.lemp-arts.org/
They don't ever pay local bands, and pay out of town bands only
seldomly, usually just giving them a place to crash and maybe food, but
the place is smoke and alcohol free, and Mark, the guy who runs it is
just an all around great citizen. It's small, and there's no stage or
any other boundary between bands and audiences. He lets anyone from
the Lemp Neighborhood in for free (donations welcome) and charges a
flat $5 for everyone else. Lots of volunteers involved. We're talking
to him about playing there. I'd like to do a show similar to our first
one, with us as the only live act, but spinning lots of pre-eighties
stuff, especially the '75-'80 punk that I've heard more than one of the
young punkrockers refer to as "The Real Stuff."
Funny, but to them that's *The Oldies*. This IS your daddy's punk
rock.

The bar scene for "punk" here is such that we could esaily play every
week if we wanted http://stlpunk.com/shows.asp There are quite a few
places (21+) who let the bands keep the entire door. They just want
thirsty customers inside, and since there are so many other bars that
also have bands, the supply of decent bands outstrips the demand. A
seller's market.

St Louis had gotten a reputation as a city to avoid, but right now I
don't think that's deserved anymore.

- dsb

--Bryan

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:13:03 -0800, Pan paniscus wrote:

I have a real problem with the sound at most places. You can almost
NEVER hear the vocals. If I have to bring sound reinforcement
dedicated to vocals, I will. There is also that "play anywhere that
has an AC outlet" thing.

You can never really count on sound in any place - its why touring bands
take their own sound crews with them whenever they can afford them. I've
always made it a point to go schmooze with the sound guy for a bit before
a show. Its a pretty ****ty job running sound, especially in smaller
clubs, so it doesn't hurt to not be a dick. They're less likely to ****
with your sound if you are at least decent to 'em.

The good part is that you can play anywhere when you've got your own PA,
but organizing shows can be the biggest bitch. Getting bands to show up,
and then getting people to show up takes a lot of work.


Yeah, a bitch because I have to listen to all my bandmates bitch about
too many pieces of equipment. We have this old Fender PA-135
http://www.harmony-central.com/Guita...PA_135-01.html and
the guys bitch about bringing it, even though the horn sounds great
through it, and I don't want the horn exclusively through the PA
because then it competes with my--and everyone else's for that
matter--vocals.

Always seems like with each piece of gear you get, you find that you need
2-3 more to go with it. I ended up moving all of my guitar gear into a
rack after my stomp box collection was getting out of hand. At least you
get people to help you carry and set up ****. My old singer never helped
carry anything because 1) he was always with his bitch girlfriend and 2)
he "didn't want to **** anything up" because he never bothered to learn
how to use it and 3) "it's not my stuff anyways". He didn't last much
longer.


I have no problem making money, but I just don't like the age
restrictions. When I was (I guess) 20, me and Shira got in to see the
Ramones in an unconventional and illegal fashion. That shouldn't have
had to be. Besides, 18-20 YOs are busy getting their balls shot off
over in Iraq right now, but they aren't old enough to get in to see us?

I'm kinda torn on the idea of 21+ shows. One one hand I see them as a
necessary evil, but it completely sucks that a huge portion of music fans
can't get in to see the bands they want to see. But to completely avoid
all 21+ shows immediately shuts out a ****load of potential places to play.


You know, I might bitch, but I'm OK with dealing with it if I have to
if I'm being paid. I'm not going to breathe the **** if I'm not, and I
certainly can't think of a single band I'd be willing to breathe it to
see. If I'm going to make an exception, it's very likely to involve
strippers.

Eh, I wouldn't care so much about the smoke if these places were better
ventilated. We're all already ****ed from second hand smoke anyways.

Why pay for strippers when you can get chicks to do it for free?


THere's a nice venue here called The Lemp Neighborhood Arts
Center
http://www.lemp-arts.org/
They don't ever pay local bands, and pay out of town bands only
seldomly, usually just giving them a place to crash and maybe food, but
the place is smoke and alcohol free, and Mark, the guy who runs it is
just an all around great citizen. It's small, and there's no stage or
any other boundary between bands and audiences. He lets anyone from
the Lemp Neighborhood in for free (donations welcome) and charges a
flat $5 for everyone else. Lots of volunteers involved. We're talking
to him about playing there. I'd like to do a show similar to our first
one, with us as the only live act, but spinning lots of pre-eighties
stuff, especially the '75-'80 punk that I've heard more than one of the
young punkrockers refer to as "The Real Stuff."
Funny, but to them that's *The Oldies*. This IS your daddy's punk
rock.

I like to try to at least cover some gas money and maybe get some food for
bands that come from out of town. We made a couple of 10+ hour trips to
play and were never offered a place to stay, food or even gas money. Kinda
leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

Sounds like a pretty good party idea with the older punk stuff.


The bar scene for "punk" here is such that we could esaily play every
week if we wanted http://stlpunk.com/shows.asp There are quite a few
places (21+) who let the bands keep the entire door. They just want
thirsty customers inside, and since there are so many other bars that
also have bands, the supply of decent bands outstrips the demand. A
seller's market.

St Louis had gotten a reputation as a city to avoid, but right now I
don't think that's deserved anymore.

Take that **** and run with it. Not everywhere has a scene like that. I'd
love to be able to book shows every weekend from here until eternity,
especially if they're paying gigs. You can always make a non-paying gig,
now that you have your own PA.

- dsb


--
"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural
deficiency in moral fibre, and that I an therefore excused from saving
Universes." -- Ford Prefect

DuchovnySexBomb wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:13:03 -0800, Pan paniscus wrote:

I have a real problem with the sound at most places. You can
almost
NEVER hear the vocals. If I have to bring sound reinforcement
dedicated to vocals, I will. There is also that "play anywhere
that
has an AC outlet" thing.

You can never really count on sound in any place - its why touring
bands
take their own sound crews with them whenever they can afford them.
I've
always made it a point to go schmooze with the sound guy for a bit
before
a show. Its a pretty ****ty job running sound, especially in smaller
clubs, so it doesn't hurt to not be a dick. They're less likely to
****
with your sound if you are at least decent to 'em.

The good part is that you can play anywhere when you've got your own
PA,
but organizing shows can be the biggest bitch. Getting bands to show
up,
and then getting people to show up takes a lot of work.


Yeah, a bitch because I have to listen to all my bandmates bitch
about
too many pieces of equipment. We have this old Fender PA-135
http://www.harmony-central.com/Guita...PA_135-01.html
and
the guys bitch about bringing it, even though the horn sounds great
through it, and I don't want the horn exclusively through the PA
because then it competes with my--and everyone else's for that
matter--vocals.

Always seems like with each piece of gear you get, you find that you
need
2-3 more to go with it. I ended up moving all of my guitar gear into
a
rack after my stomp box collection was getting out of hand. At least
you
get people to help you carry and set up ****. My old singer never
helped
carry anything because 1) he was always with his bitch girlfriend and
2)
he "didn't want to **** anything up" because he never bothered to
learn
how to use it and 3) "it's not my stuff anyways". He didn't last much
longer.


I have no problem making money, but I just don't like the age
restrictions. When I was (I guess) 20, me and Shira got in to see
the
Ramones in an unconventional and illegal fashion. That shouldn't
have
had to be. Besides, 18-20 YOs are busy getting their balls shot
off
over in Iraq right now, but they aren't old enough to get in to see
us?

I'm kinda torn on the idea of 21+ shows. One one hand I see them as a
necessary evil, but it completely sucks that a huge portion of music
fans
can't get in to see the bands they want to see. But to completely
avoid
all 21+ shows immediately shuts out a ****load of potential places to
play.


You know, I might bitch, but I'm OK with dealing with it if I have
to
if I'm being paid. I'm not going to breathe the **** if I'm not,
and I
certainly can't think of a single band I'd be willing to breathe it
to
see. If I'm going to make an exception, it's very likely to
involve
strippers.

Eh, I wouldn't care so much about the smoke if these places were
better
ventilated. We're all already ****ed from second hand smoke anyways.

Why pay for strippers when you can get chicks to do it for free?


Come on. You know it's not the same. Partly it's the variety, partly,
if you are selective about the clubs you go to, it's that there are
some real hotties out there dancing for those $2 bills. Besides, wives
and girlfriends--at least non-psycho ones--don't really care what you
do at strip clubs because it's obviously not this potentially personal
thing, whereas even with strangers who are initially both on the same
page about no strings, **** sometimes happens.

It's been over a year since I've been to a strip club--I'm picky, and
would probably insist on driving 2 hours to Columbia, MO--and with the
money we all recently spent, I think it'll be a while longer.

I like to try to at least cover some gas money and maybe get some
food for bands that come from out of town. We made a couple of 10+
hour trips to play and were never offered a place to stay, food or
even gas money. Kinda leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

This goes out to you and to the rest of the NG, that wouldn't happen
with any show we'd be involved with, unless of course the band was
smelly, already vomitting, or had done something else that meant they
clearly weren't a good candidate for inviting home.

- dsb

--Bryan

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:57:02 -0800, Pan paniscus wrote:

Come on. You know it's not the same. Partly it's the variety, partly,
if you are selective about the clubs you go to, it's that there are
some real hotties out there dancing for those $2 bills. Besides, wives
and girlfriends--at least non-psycho ones--don't really care what you
do at strip clubs because it's obviously not this potentially personal
thing, whereas even with strangers who are initially both on the same
page about no strings, **** sometimes happens.

It's been over a year since I've been to a strip club--I'm picky, and
would probably insist on driving 2 hours to Columbia, MO--and with the
money we all recently spent, I think it'll be a while longer.

Variety is the spice of life, so ya got me there. But I'd certainly rather
have a girlfriend or wife that enjoys putting on a private show rather
than buying overpriced beers that'll help me throw money at women that
I'll won't end up going home with.


I like to try to at least cover some gas money and maybe get some
food for bands that come from out of town. We made a couple of 10+
hour trips to play and were never offered a place to stay, food or
even gas money. Kinda leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

This goes out to you and to the rest of the NG, that wouldn't happen
with any show we'd be involved with, unless of course the band was
smelly, already vomitting, or had done something else that meant they
clearly weren't a good candidate for inviting home.

Just make sure you've got some extra cash before hand then. I've had to
run to the bank to cover some bands before.

- dsb


--
"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural
deficiency in moral fibre, and that I an therefore excused from saving
Universes." -- Ford Prefect

DuchovnySexBomb wrote:
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:57:02 -0800, Pan paniscus wrote:

Come on. You know it's not the same. Partly it's the variety,
partly,
if you are selective about the clubs you go to, it's that there are
some real hotties out there dancing for those $2 bills. Besides,
wives
and girlfriends--at least non-psycho ones--don't really care what
you
do at strip clubs because it's obviously not this potentially
personal
thing, whereas even with strangers who are initially both on the
same
page about no strings, **** sometimes happens.

It's been over a year since I've been to a strip club--I'm picky,
and
would probably insist on driving 2 hours to Columbia, MO--and with
the
money we all recently spent, I think it'll be a while longer.

Variety is the spice of life, so ya got me there. But I'd certainly
rather
have a girlfriend or wife that enjoys putting on a private show
rather
than buying overpriced beers that'll help me throw money at women
that
I'll won't end up going home with.

Those private shows don't do much for me since there's really no
mystery there if you've been with a girl for any time. A lot of guys
buy tickets to sporting events. Heck, what does an NBA ticket cost
these days? Decent seats at an NFL game, if you can get 'em? I just
can't think of any sight more pleasing than women's bodies. I haven't
bought a ticket to a sporting event, not even a Cardinals game, in
years.

I like to try to at least cover some gas money and maybe get some
food for bands that come from out of town. We made a couple of 10+
hour trips to play and were never offered a place to stay, food or
even gas money. Kinda leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

This goes out to you and to the rest of the NG, that wouldn't
happen
with any show we'd be involved with, unless of course the band was
smelly, already vomitting, or had done something else that meant
they
clearly weren't a good candidate for inviting home.

Just make sure you've got some extra cash before hand then. I've
had to run to the bank to cover some bands before.

Oh, I'm not saying I'd give them gas--or any other--money unless we
were the ones who booked them, but a place to crash and some food is
just common courtesy from the local band(s) on the bill. You know, if
you are decent to people, there's a good chance that what comes
around... There is only one band from out of town that's done a show
with us, but you can bet they'd not only return the favor if we played
with them in Nashville, but would (I'm sure) be happy to vouch for our
hospitality if we were trying to get a band we wanted to come here.
Doing somebody wrong, considering the tiny amounts of money, etc. at
stake is just playing ****ty odds.

- dsb

--Bryan

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:07:06 -0800, Pan paniscus wrote:

Those private shows don't do much for me since there's really no
mystery there if you've been with a girl for any time. A lot of guys
buy tickets to sporting events. Heck, what does an NBA ticket cost
these days? Decent seats at an NFL game, if you can get 'em? I just
can't think of any sight more pleasing than women's bodies. I haven't
bought a ticket to a sporting event, not even a Cardinals game, in
years.

Ever think of selling tickets to your next private show?

- dsb


--
"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural
deficiency in moral fibre, and that I an therefore excused from saving
Universes." -- Ford Prefect

DuchovnySexBomb wrote:
On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:07:06 -0800, Pan paniscus wrote:

Those private shows don't do much for me since there's really no
mystery there if you've been with a girl for any time. A lot of
guys
buy tickets to sporting events. Heck, what does an NBA ticket cost
these days? Decent seats at an NFL game, if you can get 'em? I
just
can't think of any sight more pleasing than women's bodies. I
haven't
bought a ticket to a sporting event, not even a Cardinals game, in
years.

Ever think of selling tickets to your next private show?

No.

- dsb

--Bryan