If you want an antique heavy analog EVM, hold out for a chopper
stabilized HP or a Ballantine with thermocouple derived true RMS. The
Heaths were rough even by TV shop standards-the RCA/VIZ Senior
VoltOhmyst is a better box.

On 20 Feb 2005 14:31:51 -0800, wrote:

If you want an antique heavy analog EVM, hold out for a chopper
stabilized HP or a Ballantine with thermocouple derived true RMS.

At a much higher price, Brian. And who cares about 'true RMS' in
audio work, where test signals are pure sine waves? The Heathlkit
is calibrated in RMS for sine waves.

The
Heaths were rough even by TV shop standards-the RCA/VIZ Senior
VoltOhmyst is a better box.

Yet there are hordes of hobiests that collect and use Heathkits,
while no one seems to want the old RCA boxes. And, exactly how
are heath instruments 'rough'? Even in their heyday, the RCA stuff
didn't sell half as well as Heathkits.

Search ebay for 'voltohmyst' and you get 9 posts. Search for
Heathlkit and you get 916. Even if you narrow it down to 'heathkit
VTVM' you still get 15.

-- Ron

People collect Heathkits for nostalgia, a few Heath designs-the
grid-dip meter-are popular for use because they're the only common unit
of the type available. The VTVM was a very popular project in the old
days but for use a DMM with a fast reading bar graph is a far better
all around choice. If you really want a VTVM-and there are very few
times you really do, I say this as a big tube buff-the HP and
Ballantine and Fluke units are radically better built. Buy a cheap
FLUKE DMM first, a good Fluke DMM second, a Simpson 260 or Triplett
third and a lab grade VTVM or FET-VM fourth. The Voltohmysts are far
more rugged, accurate, and easy to use if you want a "service grade"
VTVM, indeed they are almost lab grade, their only issues are that the
plastic cover tends to crack with age. The movement in the RCA is far
better than the surplus scrounged stock cheapies Benton Harbor sourced.

On 20 Feb 2005 19:36:33 -0800, wrote:

People collect Heathkits for nostalgia

True. And there is a reason for that nostalgia, that the RCA stuff
does not enjoy.

... The VTVM was a very popular project in the old
days but for use a DMM with a fast reading bar graph is a far better
all around choice.

I diagree. I have a Triplett 2103 (4-3/4 digits, 0.5%, with fast bar
graph) and still use a VTVM (BTW, its a Heath IM-13). The issue
is not speed, but resolution.

If you really want a VTVM-and there are very few
times you really do, I say this as a big tube buff-the HP and
Ballantine and Fluke units are radically better built.

At a far higher price, that I for one, am not interested in. No one
likely to buy the IM-21 I offer for sale will be, either.

Buy a cheap FLUKE DMM first..

I have an old 8020B, that I bought oveer 20 years ago

... a good Fluke DMM second, a Simpson 260 or Triplett
third and a lab grade VTVM or FET-VM fourth.

Having ownd a Simpson 260 (several of which used to be the
work horses in my lab). Still prefered the Heath V-7A VTVM,
even then (just to clarify: most of the product line was in Audio).

Of course, you seem to have missed the point entirely. The IM-21
up for sale is an AC VTVM - specifically designed for audio work,
with a full scale reading of 10mV. General purpose VTVMs (1.5V
lowest scale) are useless for such work.

The Voltohmysts are far more rugged, accurate..

Again, I disagree, based on several of the RCA units I actually
used.

... VTVM, indeed they are almost lab grade, their only issues are that the
plastic cover tends to crack with age. The movement in the RCA is far
better than the surplus scrounged stock cheapies Benton Harbor sourced.

Heath used Weston, Ideal Precision, Bach-Simpson (in England) and
similar movements. IOW, top quality makes. Many thousands have
lasted to this day.

If you must badmouth products that people offer for sale, better
learn to do it right from your betters.. Yell ALERTS!!! Imply the
stuff is stolen!!! Claim that the seller has bad breath!!!. Mumbling
"surplus scrounged stock cheapies" is lame, to say the least.

Luckily, anyone likely to bid on my IM-21 will know exactly what
he/she is bididng on and will ignore your drivel.

Have a nice evening,

-- Ron

Ron wrote:
On 20 Feb 2005 19:36:33 -0800, wrote:

People collect Heathkits for nostalgia

True. And there is a reason for that nostalgia, that the RCA stuff
does not enjoy.

Yes, that's what they ordered catalogs of and dreamed of owning when
they were in junior high and their drunken, abusive fathers wouldn't
let them run a soldering iron in the house. Real equipment like GenRad
and HP was unobtanium.

At a far higher price, that I for one, am not interested in. No one
likely to buy the IM-21 I offer for sale will be, either.

Since there is no commercial demand for them most HP, GenRad,
Ballantine and other lab grade tube boxes are now $20 hamfest pieces.
Your Heath is a $10 hamfest piece.



If you must badmouth products that people offer for sale, better
learn to do it right from your betters.. Yell ALERTS!!! Imply the
stuff is stolen!!! Claim that the seller has bad breath!!!. Mumbling
"surplus scrounged stock cheapies" is lame, to say the least.

Luckily, anyone likely to bid on my IM-21 will know exactly what
he/she is bididng on and will ignore your drivel.

You posted your FA eBay blurb in rec.audio.opinion so I provided my
opinion as I will continue to do whenever ebay auctions are put in
r.a.o. My feeling is that you should EITHER sell on Usenet OR eBay but
not both, however, if you must fluff your eBay auctions on Usenet,
marketplace groups are appropriate.

On 21 Feb 2005 16:37:02 -0800, wrote:


Ron wrote:
On 20 Feb 2005 19:36:33 -0800, wrote:

People collect Heathkits for nostalgia

True. And there is a reason for that nostalgia, that the RCA stuff
does not enjoy.

Yes, that's what they ordered catalogs of and dreamed of owning when
they were in junior high and their drunken, abusive fathers wouldn't
let them run a soldering iron in the house. Real equipment like GenRad
and HP was unobtanium.

So, people that buy/collect Heathkits must have had an abusive
father?

At a far higher price, that I for one, am not interested in. No one
likely to buy the IM-21 I offer for sale will be, either.

Since there is no commercial demand for them most HP, GenRad,
Ballantine and other lab grade tube boxes are now $20 hamfest pieces.

BS. Take a look at ebay.

Your Heath is a $10 hamfest piece.

More BS. Take another look at ebay.

If you must badmouth products that people offer for sale, better
learn to do it right from your betters.. Yell ALERTS!!! Imply the
stuff is stolen!!! Claim that the seller has bad breath!!!. Mumbling
"surplus scrounged stock cheapies" is lame, to say the least.

Luckily, anyone likely to bid on my IM-21 will know exactly what
he/she is bididng on and will ignore your drivel.

You posted your FA eBay blurb in rec.audio.opinion so I provided my
opinion as I will continue to do whenever ebay auctions are put in
r.a.o. My feeling is that you should EITHER sell on Usenet OR eBay but
not both, however, if you must fluff your eBay auctions on Usenet,
marketplace groups are appropriate.

Just like Brian (or, maybe you *are* Brian?), you don't know the
difference between 'opinion' and 'badmouting'. How abusive was
*your* father?

No, not all people who collect Heathkits had an abusive father.
Mostly, it's the social phenomenon of inferiorism-why a rusted hulk of
a '32 Ford roadster is worth more than a nice driveable junior Packard
of the same vintage. They're only going to **** it up by putting a
seventies Camaro driveline and some grossly overpriced aftermarket ****
on it anyway.

Hamfests still have lots of HP lunchboxes at reasonable prices,
because the hamfest nation doesn't do eBay. And I've seen old HP boxes
for $25-50 recently, divide in half for ACV.