Hey all,

I have the following gear:

Keyboards/Rackmounts: Roland XV-88, Fantom XR, XV-5050, XV-3080
Softwa Cakewalk Sonar 4
Midi Interface: Edirol UM-880
Mixer: Samson MDR 1064

My problem is that, when recording, the output from the keyboards is too
quiet. When I pump up the gain on the mixer, it blows it out (the red lights
light, and the sound ends up clipped). But, the sound is simply too quiet
for this to make any sense to me.

What I'm thinking is that I simply have the wrong mixer. That I need a good
line mixer, but I may need some pre-amps.

As for what I record, it is really all over the map. I've been doing a lot
of broadway stuff lately (having recently completed Seussical). But, for
various area schools, I've been doing orchestrations of pieces ranging from
Reggae to Hebrew, and from the Beatles to Gilbert and Sullivan.

Can anyone recommend either:

a- A good line mixer with good pre-amps. It would need to either accommodate
10 mono channels (allowing 2 for mics), or have 5 good stereo inputs and
some mic inputs. But, I need the pre-amps on all the inputs, not just the
mics.

or

b- A good line mixer with the afore-mentioned inputs but no pre-amps, and a
good rack-mount pre-amp that takes the inputs that I need.

Less equipment is better for me as I don't have a whole bunch of room. But,
I understand that in many cases, you want separate amps because the sound of
integrated amps is usually much worse than stand-alone versions.

Since I made a bad decision on the mixer I bought, I'd rather not make
another one. Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Marc

"The Nomad" wrote in message
m...
Hey all,

I have the following gear:

Keyboards/Rackmounts: Roland XV-88, Fantom XR, XV-5050, XV-3080
Softwa Cakewalk Sonar 4
Midi Interface: Edirol UM-880
Mixer: Samson MDR 1064

My problem is that, when recording, the output from the keyboards is too
quiet. When I pump up the gain on the mixer, it blows it out (the red
lights
light, and the sound ends up clipped). But, the sound is simply too quiet
for this to make any sense to me.

Which red lights? On the channel strips, or the output VU meters? Or
someplace else?

What I'm thinking is that I simply have the wrong mixer. That I need a
good
line mixer, but I may need some pre-amps.

I suspect your mixer is fine; somewhere, things are set in such a way that
the gain structure is messed up, so getting enough signal into your
soundcard (what kind, by the way?) makes the mixer clip. I'm fairly sure
there is a combination of settings that will get clean results into the
computer.

So, these questions:

When you're recording and it's clipping, where are the master faders on the
mixer set? (In dB if that's how they're calibrated, on a 1-10 scale
otherwise.)

Where are the channel faders set? (ditto)

Where are the trim controls on the channels set?

If there are group/sub masters, where are they set?

Since I made a bad decision on the mixer I bought, I'd rather not make
another one. Thanks for any advice you can offer.

I doubt that you really made a bad decision choosing the mixer, but rather
some bad settings on its controls. We may be about to save you some money.

Peace,
Paul

In article writes:

Keyboards/Rackmounts: Roland XV-88, Fantom XR, XV-5050, XV-3080
Softwa Cakewalk Sonar 4
Midi Interface: Edirol UM-880
Mixer: Samson MDR 1064

My problem is that, when recording, the output from the keyboards is too
quiet. When I pump up the gain on the mixer, it blows it out (the red lights
light, and the sound ends up clipped). But, the sound is simply too quiet
for this to make any sense to me.

You're probably adjusting the mixer incorrectly. You need to adjust
the GAIN (the pot at the top of the channel strip) so that the
keyboards don't clip, then adjust the LEVEL (the pot at the bottom)
for the balance that you want in the mix.

What makes it "loud" is the combination of the setting of the master
(MAIN) level and the gain of whatever you're listening to. The meters
give you an indication of the overall level, and you shouldn't let
that get too far above the 0 mark on those meters.

What I'm thinking is that I simply have the wrong mixer. That I need a good
line mixer, but I may need some pre-amps.

Your mixer isn't the greatest, but your problem is how you have it
adjusted, not what it is or isn't.

Can anyone recommend either:

a- A good line mixer with good pre-amps. It would need to either accommodate
10 mono channels (allowing 2 for mics), or have 5 good stereo inputs and
some mic inputs. But, I need the pre-amps on all the inputs, not just the
mics.

Well, first off, a "line" mixer doesn't have preamps. You want a mixer
that has both mic inputs (preamps) and line inputs, and that's what
you have.

Want a better one? Try a Mackie Onyx. The 1220 would probably do you -
four mic inputs, two of which can also be used as mono line inputs,
and four stereo line level inputs. The next size up, the 1620, would
give you more room to expand.

b- A good line mixer with the afore-mentioned inputs but no pre-amps, and a
good rack-mount pre-amp that takes the inputs that I need.

If you're a Samson user now, you really can't afford this approach.

Less equipment is better for me as I don't have a whole bunch of room. But,
I understand that in many cases, you want separate amps because the sound of
integrated amps is usually much worse than stand-alone versions.

If you're talking mic preamps, that's true for some mixers, but it
doesn't take too much to get over the hump and get a mixer with usable
preamps.

Since I made a bad decision on the mixer I bought, I'd rather not make
another one. Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Get someone who understands gain structure to help you set up what you
have now. Once you have it working properly you'll be in a better
position to judge whether you really need a new mixer, or just some
tutoring. It's really better to have someone with you rather than try
to explain it in detail in a message. One method to get you started,
but it's not quite optimum, is this:

Connect a CD player to a pair of line inputs on your mixer, and
connect whatever power amplifier and speakers you're using to the
mixer main outputs. Set the MAIN Level control all the way down, set
the LEVEL controls on the CD player channels to their middle position,
then raise the MAIN level control until the meters read 0 on peaks.
How loud are your speakers (don't blow them trying to get there - if
it starts to get too loud, turn down the gain on your power
amplifier). You want to set the gain on your power amplifier so that
when the mixer's meters read around 0, it's about as loud as you want
to hear the music. Then shut off the CD player.

Now, connect up your synths, set all the LEVEL controls on those
channels to their mid position, and start bringing up the GAIN
controls on the synth channels until you have a decent mix and the
meters are reaching close to 0 on peaks. That should solve your
problem.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Sorry - I forgot to mention the sound card.

Soundcard: Digital Audio Labs CardDeluxe