As you know I have never believed very much in 5.1 audio, beileving
that one, two, or three channels were the right number. However 5.1 is
here like it or not. While a rack of McIntosh Industrial, Manley, or
Fairchild tube monoblocs would be attractive to look at, it really
isn't a practical idea. In fact the only practical power solution as I
see it for 5.1 is the active speaker, having its own active crossover
and multiple amps, and a professional input-AES/EBU digital or +4, 600
ohm balanced in.

Other than the Genelecs, what is out there, besides crappy Behringer
and Mackie prosumo products?

Take a look at the new NHT XDS system which is on its way very soon.

Kal

On 17 Feb 2005 19:00:26 -0800, wrote:

As you know I have never believed very much in 5.1 audio, beileving
that one, two, or three channels were the right number. However 5.1 is
here like it or not. While a rack of McIntosh Industrial, Manley, or
Fairchild tube monoblocs would be attractive to look at, it really
isn't a practical idea. In fact the only practical power solution as I
see it for 5.1 is the active speaker, having its own active crossover
and multiple amps, and a professional input-AES/EBU digital or +4, 600
ohm balanced in.

Other than the Genelecs, what is out there, besides crappy Behringer
and Mackie prosumo products?

As you know I have never believed very much in 5.1 audio, beileving
that one, two, or three channels were the right number.

Why would you belive this? Have you ever heard a 5.1 system set up
properly?

However 5.1 is
here like it or not. While a rack of McIntosh Industrial, Manley, or
Fairchild tube monoblocs would be attractive to look at, it really
isn't a practical idea.

Not evern one or two of them are practical in the view of most people,
they have tubes you know. As a great philosopher once said, "Toobs are
for Boobs.

In fact the only practical power solution as I
see it for 5.1 is the active speaker, having its own active crossover
and multiple amps, and a professional input-AES/EBU digital or +4, 600
ohm balanced in.


Other than the Genelecs, what is out there, besides crappy Behringer
and Mackie prosumo products?


Why do you feel they are crappy, have you heard them?
Perhaps your ears were damaged listening to those horn speakers. :-)

The KRK Expose speakers I mentioned are $1859.00 per pair, self
amplified, with 120 watts for the tweeter and 160 watts for the midbass.

As you know I have never believed very much in 5.1 audio, beileving
that one, two, or three channels were the right number.

It is very nice for not a lot more money. Of course, you
should always buy a setup meant for stereo music first.
This means full-range speakers in front that don't need
a subwoofer at all, for one(of course, this means a bigger
amplifier as well, but solutions exist liek Outlaw Audio
and at the higher end, Bryston makes a superb multi-channel
amplifier that really is like 5-7 monoblocks in a chassis
No corners cut, twenty year warranty, even on used ones.

In fact the only practical power solution as I
see it for 5.1 is the active speaker, having its own active crossover
and multiple amps, and a professional input-AES/EBU digital or +4, 600
ohm balanced in.

Passive works fine if you get the right speakers and enough
power to drive them.

wrote in message
ups.com

As you know I have never believed very much in 5.1 audio, believing
that one, two, or three channels were the right number.

I've long preferred 2 channels (personal listening) or 3 channels
(listening with others or in a larger room). That translates into earphones,
headphones or near-field monitors for personal/critical listening, and 3
channels for listening with others.

However 5.1 is here like it or not.

A lot of prerecorded material is available for this style of listening.

While a rack of McIntosh Industrial, Manley, or
Fairchild tube monoblocs would be attractive to look at, it really
isn't a practical idea.

It's outdated crap, anyhow. Bottles! Yecch!

In fact the only practical power solution as I
see it for 5.1 is the active speaker, having its own active crossover
and multiple amps, and a professional input-AES/EBU digital or +4, 600
ohm balanced in.

Iconoclasm, anybody?

Other than the Genelecs, what is out there, besides crappy Behringer and
Mackie prosumo products?

Those are really pretty good speakers, but they aren't the measure of the
marketplace. Golden Ear Bigotry (as taught by Grand Dragon of the Klan Of
The Golden Ear, John Atkinson), anybody?

Other providers of active speakers include JBL Pro, NHT Pro, KRK, Blue Sky,
Edirol, Tannoy... Paradigm had some, but they seem to have kinda gone away.
Probably didn't sell because of the well-known Golden Ear bias against
active speakers. After all, it can't be good audio if the speakers and the
amps come from separate vendors. This ignores the extreme synergy that can
be obtained when you deliver a highly-integrated speaker/amp/crossover
package.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message


Correction:

Paradigm had some, but they seem to have
kinda gone away. Probably didn't sell because of the well-known
Golden Ear bias against active speakers. After all, it can't be good
audio unless the speakers and the amps come from separate vendors. This
ignores the extreme synergy that can be obtained when you deliver a
highly-integrated speaker/amp/crossover package.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

Those are really pretty good speakers, but they aren't the measure of the
marketplace. Golden Ear Bigotry (as taught by Grand Dragon of the Klan Of
The Golden Ear, John Atkinson), anybody?


Now you are equating JA with a KKK leader!
Are you going to do that in the debate, in
JA's face, in front of an audience?



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

wrote:
In fact the only practical power solution as I
see it for 5.1 is the active speaker, having its own active crossover
and multiple amps, and a professional input-AES/EBU digital or +4, 600
ohm balanced in.

Other than the Genelecs, what is out there, besides crappy Behringer
and Mackie prosumo products?

Meridian Audio:
http://www.meridian-audio.com/welcome.htm
http://www.meridian-audio.com/m_bro_spk.htm

They are expensive.

--
http://www.mat.uc.pt/~rps/

..pt is Portugal| `Whom the gods love die young'-Menander (342-292 BC)
Europe | Villeneuve 50-82, Toivonen 56-86, Senna 60-94

On 18 Feb 2005 14:43:40 -0000, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:

wrote:
In fact the only practical power solution as I
see it for 5.1 is the active speaker, having its own active crossover
and multiple amps, and a professional input-AES/EBU digital or +4, 600
ohm balanced in.

Other than the Genelecs, what is out there, besides crappy Behringer
and Mackie prosumo products?

Meridian Audio:
http://www.meridian-audio.com/welcome.htm
http://www.meridian-audio.com/m_bro_spk.htm

I've heard that Paradigm's Active/40s sound good, but I haven't heard
them.

Also, although I haven't heard the recent iterations of their
products, I WAS impressed when I heard NHT's powered speaker from
about 4 years ago (maybe the A4?), when Chris Byrne auditioned them
for me at the Nashville NAAM show. Even in the open floor area, they
had a great sound.

Here's their current line:

http://www.nhtpro.com/2004/products/...=1&SubjectID=1

Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro wrote:

wrote:

In fact the only practical power solution as I
see it for 5.1 is the active speaker, having its own active crossover
and multiple amps, and a professional input-AES/EBU digital or +4, 600
ohm balanced in.


Other than the Genelecs, what is out there, besides crappy Behringer
and Mackie prosumo products?


Meridian Audio:
http://www.meridian-audio.com/welcome.htm
http://www.meridian-audio.com/m_bro_spk.htm

They are expensive.

JBL Pro, Tannoy, and many others also exist. I do find it odd,
though, since you could easily buy a superb amplifier to
drive them and save a lot of money as well.

http://www.earthshakingmusic.com/krk...-SkipRecords=0

The above will take you to a description of the KRK Expose E8T powered
speaker. This puppy has 120 watt amp on the tweeter and 160 watts for
the woofer using Focal/JRM drivers. You could do a lot worse.

"Clyde Slick" wrote

Those are really pretty good speakers, but they aren't
the measure of the marketplace. Golden Ear Bigotry
(as taught by Grand Dragon of the Klan Of The Golden
Ear, John Atkinson), anybody?


Now you are equating JA with a KKK leader!
Are you going to do that in the debate, in
JA's face, in front of an audience?

How do you think Arny got the expense paid trip in the
first place... by adhering to the norms of polite social
intercourse ?

How about some Dynaudio pro speakers?

wrote in message
ups.com...
As you know I have never believed very much in 5.1 audio, beileving
that one, two, or three channels were the right number. However 5.1 is
here like it or not. While a rack of McIntosh Industrial, Manley, or
Fairchild tube monoblocs would be attractive to look at, it really
isn't a practical idea. In fact the only practical power solution as I
see it for 5.1 is the active speaker, having its own active crossover
and multiple amps, and a professional input-AES/EBU digital or +4, 600
ohm balanced in.

I find your comments surprising. The idea that active speakers become more
practical as the number of channels grows seems to me counterintuitive.
Every active speaker has to have its own power supply, not to mention wall
outlet. Whereas large numbers of passive speakers can be driven from
multiple amplifiers sharing the same power supply and only a single power
outlet.

It's true that there are advantages in tailoring the amplifier design
specifically to the speaker, but these advantages are there regardless of
the number of channels.

Norm Strong

Dynaudio's Air 6 would do the trick dontcha think?

Best price I've seen is 1595.00 per pair.

Dynaudio's Air 6 would do the trick dontcha think?


Best price I've seen is 1595.00 per pair.
OOPS! make that per speaker.

dave weil a écrit :

I've heard that Paradigm's Active/40s sound good, but I haven't heard
them.

Once again you are speaking of something that you don't know.
Google is free access, you know. ;-)

Arny Krueger wrote:

snipped


Golden Ear Bigotry (as taught by Grand Dragon of the Klan Of
The Golden Ear, John Atkinson), anybody?




That's quite an image you conjured up there, Arny. I have visions of
Atkinson in a wizard's hat (think Mickey Mouse in "Fantasia"), holding
forth before the grateful masses.

wrote in message
oups.com
Arny Krueger wrote:


Golden Ear Bigotry (as taught by Grand Dragon of the Klan Of
The Golden Ear, John Atkinson), anybody?

That's quite an image you conjured up there, Arny.

The pointy shoes seem to fit.

I have visions of Atkinson in a wizard's hat (think Mickey Mouse in
"Fantasia"), holding
forth before the grateful masses.

See it live at HE 2005!

wrote in message
ups.com...
As you know I have never believed very much in 5.1 audio, beileving
that one, two, or three channels were the right number. However 5.1 is
here like it or not. While a rack of McIntosh Industrial, Manley, or
Fairchild tube monoblocs would be attractive to look at, it really
isn't a practical idea. In fact the only practical power solution as I
see it for 5.1 is the active speaker, having its own active crossover
and multiple amps, and a professional input-AES/EBU digital or +4, 600
ohm balanced in.

Other than the Genelecs, what is out there, besides crappy Behringer
and Mackie prosumo products?

http://www.hafler.com

A highly respected company, the chief engineer of which is Jim Strickland,
creator of the Acoustat electrostat speakers and Transnova amplifiers.

The founder was David Hafler (dec), who invented the Ultralinear tube
circuit.

Now that you've trashed perfectly fine sounding pro speakers and been
made aware of several others, what do you have to say for yourself.
OOPS would be a good start.

"Mike McKelvy" wrote in message
oups.com
Now that you've trashed perfectly fine sounding pro speakers and been
made aware of several others, what do you have to say for yourself.
OOPS would be a good start.

Cal is like Atkinson - he never admits that he ever made a mistake.

wrote in message
ups.com...
As you know I have never believed very much in 5.1 audio, beileving
that one, two, or three channels were the right number. However 5.1 is
here like it or not. While a rack of McIntosh Industrial, Manley, or
Fairchild tube monoblocs would be attractive to look at, it really
isn't a practical idea. In fact the only practical power solution as I
see it for 5.1 is the active speaker, having its own active crossover
and multiple amps, and a professional input-AES/EBU digital or +4, 600
ohm balanced in.

Other than the Genelecs, what is out there, besides crappy Behringer
and Mackie prosumo products?

You are an idiot.

Cheers,

Margaret

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:16:37 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

dave weil a écrit :

I've heard that Paradigm's Active/40s sound good, but I haven't heard
them.

Once again you are speaking of something that you don't know.
Google is free access, you know. ;-)

Actually, I know that I've heard that they are good, directly from
someone who has heard them, so I thought I'd pass it along.

Sorry if it bothered you.

dave weil a écrit :
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:16:37 +0100, Lionel
wrote:


dave weil a écrit :


I've heard that Paradigm's Active/40s sound good, but I haven't heard
them.

Once again you are speaking of something that you don't know.
Google is free access, you know. ;-)


Actually, I know that I've heard that they are good, directly from
someone who has heard them, so I thought I'd pass it along.

Yeah the friend of the friend of your best friend...
This always provide interesting opinions.

This is the way that Middius use to tastes the wine. Note
that he is a real wine connoisseur... via proxies !

:-D

Sorry if it bothered you.

Don't be sorry, but worry... Seems that you bothered
everybody since nobody but me answers you anymore. :-(

dave weil a écrit :
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:16:37 +0100, Lionel
wrote:


dave weil a écrit :


I've heard that Paradigm's Active/40s sound good, but I haven't heard
them.

Once again you are speaking of something that you don't know.
Google is free access, you know. ;-)


Actually, I know that I've heard that they are good, directly from
someone who has heard them, so I thought I'd pass it along.

Yeah the friend of the friend of your best friend...
....This always provides interesting opinions.

This is the way that Middius uses to taste the wines. Note
that he is a real wine connoisseur... via proxies !


Sorry if it bothered you.

Don't be sorry, but worry... Seems that you bothered
everybody since nobody but me answers you anymore. :-(

"Lionel" wrote in message

dave weil a écrit :

I've heard that Paradigm's Active/40s sound good, but I haven't heard
them.

Nousaine has a collection of Active 20s and 40s that I've listened to for
hours and hours. He uses them over his house-devouring monster subwoofer.
Yes, they sound GOOD! I don't know if Atkinson can even understand what this
system is about.

IME, if its made by Paradigm, its probabaly pretty good. I have an old pair
of Phantoms that still sound very good. I should listen to them more often!

Once again you are speaking of something that you don't know.

Yes, I laugh about Weil's comments about NHTPro A4s. Search google, there
is no such thing. There are such things as NHTPro M00, which have 4"
woofers. Dave should know which NHT Pro speakers I have. Hint: they don't
have mere 4" woofers. ;-)

Google is free access, you know. ;-)

Ironic how vocal George and Art are about my alleged class envy when we see
them giving a pass to Weil. Weil bought his pass with them by giving them
the RAO anti-audio online figurative fellatio that they crave.

Arny Krueger a écrit :

Yes, I laugh about Weil's comments about NHTPro A4s. Search google, there
is no such thing. There are such things as NHTPro M00, which have 4"
woofers. Dave should know which NHT Pro speakers I have. Hint: they don't
have mere 4" woofers. ;-)

Just an other Weil's pathetic attempt to come back in the
circus...

Dave is this kind of guy who always knows somebody who knows
a man who has the answer to the question.
He belongs to the famous intellectual and cultural third
circle... "Has been" who have never been. :-(

"Lionel" wrote in message


Arny Krueger a écrit :

Yes, I laugh about Weil's comments about NHTPro A4s. Search google,
there is no such thing. There are such things as the NHTPro M00, which
have 4" woofers. Dave should know which NHT Pro speakers I have.
Hint: they don't have mere 4" woofers. ;-)

Just an other Weil's pathetic attempt to come back in the
circus...

Dave never came back when I showed that he was posting delusionally when he
claimed that he had responded to only about 1% of my posts here. The real
number was more like 40%. If it wasn't for Ferstler and I, Dave would have
no online audio life at all. He'd be stuck in that rose garden forum he
likes so well.

Dave is this kind of guy who always knows somebody who knows
a man who has the answer to the question.

Well sorta. it turns out that the key guy in his life who *knows the answer*
is George Middius. ;-)

He belongs to the famous intellectual and cultural third
circle... "Has been" who have never been. :-(

Right, but he does pompous waiter in a mid-priced dive so well.

"Powell" wrote in message

"Clyde Slick" wrote

Those are really pretty good speakers, but they aren't
the measure of the marketplace. Golden Ear Bigotry
(as taught by Grand Dragon of the Klan Of The Golden
Ear, John Atkinson), anybody?

Now you are equating JA with a KKK leader!

Well, I couldn't do the FAS schtick again, could I? However if you remember
that one, you've got the measure of how long it took Atkinson to finall get
what I was saying way back then. We're talking years here, folks.

Are you going to do that in the debate, in
JA's face, in front of an audience?

Only if he asks for it.

How do you think Arny got the expense paid trip in the
first place... by adhering to the norms of polite social
intercourse ?

You know, after seemingly thousands of false starts, Powell finally made a
post that shows some sign of actual insight!

Good job, Powell! Now see if you can do it again, little man.

Arny Krueger a écrit :

He belongs to the famous intellectual and cultural third
circle... "Has been" who have never been. :-(


Right, but he does pompous waiter in a mid-priced dive so well.

The most difficult for the client is to keep Dave shut up
during the service. :-D

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 09:37:20 +0100, Lionel
wrote:

dave weil a écrit :
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:16:37 +0100, Lionel
wrote:


dave weil a écrit :


I've heard that Paradigm's Active/40s sound good, but I haven't heard
them.

Once again you are speaking of something that you don't know.
Google is free access, you know. ;-)


Actually, I know that I've heard that they are good, directly from
someone who has heard them, so I thought I'd pass it along.

Yeah the friend of the friend of your best friend...
This always provide interesting opinions.

Not always.

This is the way that Middius use to tastes the wine. Note
that he is a real wine connoisseur... via proxies !

Liar.

Don't be sorry, but worry... Seems that you bothered
everybody since nobody but me answers you anymore. :-(

At least I weighed in. I didn't post it to get an answer - I posted to
give information that someone might want to check up on. Of course,
you're not interested in audio here anyway.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 05:47:46 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Lionel" wrote in message

dave weil a écrit :

I've heard that Paradigm's Active/40s sound good, but I haven't heard
them.

Nousaine has a collection of Active 20s and 40s that I've listened to for
hours and hours. He uses them over his house-devouring monster subwoofer.
Yes, they sound GOOD! I don't know if Atkinson can even understand what this
system is about.

Well, there's confirmation that my friend might have been correct.

I love the fact that Lionel acts as Arnold's conduit to address
anything that I say but yet pretends not to "answer me anymore".

IME, if its made by Paradigm, its probabaly pretty good. I have an old pair
of Phantoms that still sound very good. I should listen to them more often!

Hmmmm, maybe I shouldn't have mentioned them so that the OP couldn't
check them out. Then Lionel would have been really happy.

Once again you are speaking of something that you don't know.

Yes, I laugh about Weil's comments about NHTPro A4s. Search google, there
is no such thing. There are such things as NHTPro M00, which have 4"
woofers. Dave should know which NHT Pro speakers I have. Hint: they don't
have mere 4" woofers. ;-)

After using Google to check, turns out it was the A-20. I DID put a
question mark there because I couldn't remember the name of the
speaker that I auditioned 4 years ago. Of course, the A-20 doesn't
have a 4-inch speaker.

No, I don't know which NHT speakers you own, Arnold. I don't think
that they're powered speakers though.

Google is free access, you know. ;-)

Ironic how vocal George and Art are about my alleged class envy when we see
them giving a pass to Weil. Weil bought his pass with them by giving them
the RAO anti-audio online figurative fellatio that they crave.

Oral sex fixation noted.

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 06:40:26 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Lionel" wrote in message


Arny Krueger a écrit :

Yes, I laugh about Weil's comments about NHTPro A4s. Search google,
there is no such thing. There are such things as the NHTPro M00, which
have 4" woofers. Dave should know which NHT Pro speakers I have.
Hint: they don't have mere 4" woofers. ;-)

Just an other Weil's pathetic attempt to come back in the
circus...

Dave never came back when I showed that he was posting delusionally when he
claimed that he had responded to only about 1% of my posts here. The real
number was more like 40%. If it wasn't for Ferstler and I, Dave would have
no online audio life at all. He'd be stuck in that rose garden forum he
likes so well.

Sure I did. I called you a liar. You are notorious about not knowing
how to use Google.

Also, this is curious logic coming from someone who claims not to
respond to my posts. I guess this means that I'm always right when you
ignore one of my comments about something you wrote.

Dave is this kind of guy who always knows somebody who knows
a man who has the answer to the question.

Well sorta. it turns out that the key guy in his life who *knows the answer*
is George Middius. ;-)

I don't know why you say that, since George wasn't the person to
mentioned the Paradigms to me.

He belongs to the famous intellectual and cultural third
circle... "Has been" who have never been. :-(

Right, but he does pompous waiter in a mid-priced dive so well.

At least I don't "work" in my underwear.

"Lionel" wrote in message
...
dave weil a écrit :
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:16:37 +0100, Lionel
wrote:


dave weil a écrit :


I've heard that Paradigm's Active/40s sound good, but I haven't heard
them.

Once again you are speaking of something that you don't know.
Google is free access, you know. ;-)


Actually, I know that I've heard that they are good, directly from
someone who has heard them, so I thought I'd pass it along.

Yeah the friend of the friend of your best friend...
...This always provides interesting opinions.

This is the way that Middius uses to taste the wines. Note that he is a
real wine connoisseur... via proxies !


Sorry if it bothered you.

Don't be sorry, but worry... Seems that you bothered everybody since
nobody but me answers you anymore. :-(


I know the sewers of Lyon stink, though
I haven't been there. Someone I know told me.



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

Ironic how vocal George and Art are about my alleged class envy when we
see them giving a pass to Weil. Weil bought his pass with them by giving
them the RAO anti-audio online figurative fellatio that they crave.


Dave appears to be very comfortable with his circumstances.



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Yes, I laugh about Weil's comments about NHTPro A4s. Search google,
there is no such thing. There are such things as the NHTPro M00, which
have 4" woofers. Dave should know which NHT Pro speakers I have.
Hint: they don't have mere 4" woofers. ;-)

Q: how much of a woofer is a 4 inch speaker? Didn't we call
them midranges a decade or two ago?

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
k.net

Yes, I laugh about Weil's comments about NHTPro A4s. Search
google, there is no such thing. There are such things as the
NHTPro M00, which have 4" woofers.

Q: how much of a woofer is a 4 inch speaker?

Not a heck of a lot. The problem is that maximum possible Xmax tends to
scale down with the diameter of the driver. Since high Xmax is the way to
offset small cone area, its a double-whammy against bass.

Didn't we call them midranges a decade or two ago?

I remember when speakers with 4" tweeters weren't that uncommon.

Clyde Slick a écrit :


I haven't been there. Someone I know told me.

This is the story of your life, Sackman...

:-D