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#1
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The Audio Critic
Is now a web magazine.
www.theaudiocritic.com They have a great review of the Linkwitz Labs Orion speakers. Very favorable and a steal for the money. |
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#2
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"Michael McKelvy" wrote in message
nk.net Is now a web magazine. www.theaudiocritic.com They have a great review of the Linkwitz Labs Orion speakers. Very favorable and a steal for the money. They are also giving away this article, which is a classic: http://www.theaudiocritic.com/downloads/article_1.pdf 2. The Vacuum-Tube Lie This lie is also, in a sense, about a peripheral matter, since vacuum tubes are hardly mainstream in the age of silicon. It's an all-pervasive lie, however, in the high-end audio market; just count the tube-equipment ads as a percentage of total ad pages in the typical high-end magazine. Unbelievable! And so is, of course, the claim that vacuum tubes are inherently superior to transistors in audio applications-don't you believe it. Tubes are great for high-powered RF transmitters and microwave ovens but not, at the turn of the century, for amplifiers, preamps, or (good grief!) digital components like CD and DVD players. What's wrong with tubes? Nothing, really. There's nothing wrong with gold teeth, either, even for upper incisors (that Mideastern grin); it's just that modern dentistry offers more attractive options. Whatever vacuum tubes can do in a piece of audio equipment, solid-state devices can do better, at lower cost, with greater reliability. Even the world's best-designed tube amplifier will have higher distortion than an equally well-designed transistor amplifier and will almost certainly need more servicing (tube replacements, rebiasing, etc.) during its lifetime. (Idiotic designs such as 8-watt single-ended triode amplifiers are of course exempt, by default, from such comparisons since they have no solid-state counterpart.) As for the "tube sound," there are two possibilities: (1) It's a figment of the deluded audiophile's imagination, or (2) it's a deliberate coloration introduced by the manufacturer to appeal to corrupted tastes, in which case a solid-state design could easily mimic the sound if the designer were perverse enough to want it that way. Yes, there exist very special situations where a sophisticated designer of hi-fi electronics might consider using a tube (e.g., the RF stage of an FM tuner), but those rare and narrowly qualified exceptions cannot redeem the common, garden-variety lies of the tube marketers, who want you to buy into an obsolete technology |
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#3
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Arny Krueger wrote: "Michael McKelvy" wrote in message nk.net Is now a web magazine. www.theaudiocritic.com They have a great review of the Linkwitz Labs Orion speakers. Very favorable and a steal for the money. They are also giving away this article, which is a classic: http://www.theaudiocritic.com/downloads/article_1.pdf 2. The Vacuum-Tube Lie This lie is also, in a sense, about a peripheral matter, since vacuum tubes are hardly mainstream in the age of silicon. It's an all-pervasive lie, however, in the high-end audio market; just count the tube-equipment ads as a percentage of total ad pages in the typical high-end magazine. Unbelievable! And so is, of course, the claim that vacuum tubes are inherently superior to transistors in audio applications-don't you believe it. Tubes are great for high-powered RF transmitters and microwave ovens but not, at the turn of the century, for amplifiers, preamps, or (good grief!) digital components like CD and DVD players. What's wrong with tubes? Nothing, really. There's nothing wrong with gold teeth, either, even for upper incisors (that Mideastern grin); it's just that modern dentistry offers more attractive options. Whatever vacuum tubes can do in a piece of audio equipment, solid-state devices can do better, at lower cost, with greater reliability. Even the world's best-designed tube amplifier will have higher distortion than an equally well-designed transistor amplifier and will almost certainly need more servicing (tube replacements, rebiasing, etc.) during its lifetime. (Idiotic designs such as 8-watt single-ended triode amplifiers are of course exempt, by default, from such comparisons since they have no solid-state counterpart.) As for the "tube sound," there are two possibilities: (1) It's a figment of the deluded audiophile's imagination, or (2) it's a deliberate coloration introduced by the manufacturer to appeal to corrupted tastes, in which case a solid-state design could easily mimic the sound if the designer were perverse enough to want it that way. Yes, there exist very special situations where a sophisticated designer of hi-fi electronics might consider using a tube (e.g., the RF stage of an FM tuner), but those rare and narrowly qualified exceptions cannot redeem the common, garden-variety lies of the tube marketers, who want you to buy into an obsolete technology The "ten biggest lies" from the Audio Critic, if inverted, could easily be the "top ten truths" from $tereopile. I hope many Audio Critic types show up for the debate. Let's kick a little Lyin' Limey butt. |
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#4
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wrote: Arny Krueger wrote: "Michael McKelvy" wrote in message nk.net Is now a web magazine. www.theaudiocritic.com They have a great review of the Linkwitz Labs Orion speakers. Very favorable and a steal for the money. They are also giving away this article, which is a classic: http://www.theaudiocritic.com/downloads/article_1.pdf 2. The Vacuum-Tube Lie This lie is also, in a sense, about a peripheral matter, since vacuum tubes are hardly mainstream in the age of silicon. It's an all-pervasive lie, however, in the high-end audio market; just count the tube-equipment ads as a percentage of total ad pages in the typical high-end magazine. Unbelievable! And so is, of course, the claim that vacuum tubes are inherently superior to transistors in audio applications-don't you believe it. Tubes are great for high-powered RF transmitters and microwave ovens but not, at the turn of the century, for amplifiers, preamps, or (good grief!) digital components like CD and DVD players. What's wrong with tubes? Nothing, really. There's nothing wrong with gold teeth, either, even for upper incisors (that Mideastern grin); it's just that modern dentistry offers more attractive options. Whatever vacuum tubes can do in a piece of audio equipment, solid-state devices can do better, at lower cost, with greater reliability. Even the world's best-designed tube amplifier will have higher distortion than an equally well-designed transistor amplifier and will almost certainly need more servicing (tube replacements, rebiasing, etc.) during its lifetime. (Idiotic designs such as 8-watt single-ended triode amplifiers are of course exempt, by default, from such comparisons since they have no solid-state counterpart.) As for the "tube sound," there are two possibilities: (1) It's a figment of the deluded audiophile's imagination, or (2) it's a deliberate coloration introduced by the manufacturer to appeal to corrupted tastes, in which case a solid-state design could easily mimic the sound if the designer were perverse enough to want it that way. Yes, there exist very special situations where a sophisticated designer of hi-fi electronics might consider using a tube (e.g., the RF stage of an FM tuner), but those rare and narrowly qualified exceptions cannot redeem the common, garden-variety lies of the tube marketers, who want you to buy into an obsolete technology The "ten biggest lies" from the Audio Critic, if inverted, could easily be the "top ten truths" from $tereopile. I hope many Audio Critic types show up for the debate. If they show up in proportion to the buyers of the two magazines (not likely given it is a Stereophile show) you may have some fraction of one person represent the Audio Critic. If Arny shows up to the debate he will likely be facing an unsympathetic audience. I still expect him to be a no show at the debate. Let's kick a little Lyin' Limey butt. Good luck. Scott Wheeler |
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#6
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "Michael McKelvy" wrote in message nk.net Is now a web magazine. www.theaudiocritic.com They have a great review of the Linkwitz Labs Orion speakers. Very favorable and a steal for the money. They are also giving away this article, which is a classic: http://www.theaudiocritic.com/downloads/article_1.pdf 2. The Vacuum-Tube Lie This lie is also, in a sense, about a peripheral matter, since vacuum tubes are hardly mainstream in the age of silicon. It's an all-pervasive lie, however, in the high-end audio market; just count the tube-equipment ads as a percentage of total ad pages in the typical high-end magazine. Unbelievable! And so is, of course, the claim that vacuum tubes are inherently superior to transistors in audio applications-don't you believe it. Tubes are great for high-powered RF transmitters and microwave ovens but not, at the turn of the century, for amplifiers, preamps, or (good grief!) digital components like CD and DVD players. What's wrong with tubes? Nothing, really. There's nothing wrong with gold teeth, either, even for upper incisors (that Mideastern grin); it's just that modern dentistry offers more attractive options. Whatever vacuum tubes can do in a piece of audio equipment, solid-state devices can do better, at lower cost, with greater reliability. Even the world's best-designed tube amplifier will have higher distortion than an equally well-designed transistor amplifier and will almost certainly need more servicing (tube replacements, rebiasing, etc.) during its lifetime. (Idiotic designs such as 8-watt single-ended triode amplifiers are of course exempt, by default, from such comparisons since they have no solid-state counterpart.) As for the "tube sound," there are two possibilities: (1) It's a figment of the deluded audiophile's imagination, or (2) it's a deliberate coloration introduced by the manufacturer to appeal to corrupted tastes, in which case a solid-state design could easily mimic the sound if the designer were perverse enough to want it that way. I can't wait for my next issue of Stereophile, chock full of ads for SS amps claiming to sound like tube amps, at a fraction of the cost! Aczel is so flummoxed, he can't even tell us which of the two alternatives (as to tube sound) he presented is operative. It can't be both!/ ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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#7
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wrote in message
oups.com wrote: The "ten biggest lies" from the Audio Critic, if inverted, could easily be the "top ten truths" from $tereopile. I hope many Audio Critic types show up for the debate. Point well taken. If they show up in proportion to the buyers of the two magazines (not likely given it is a Stereophile show) you may have some fraction of one person represent the Audio Critic. I know that SP has by far the larger circulation, but this seems a bit hyperbolic. IOW, in keeping with the SP tradition. If Arny shows up to the debate he will likely be facing an unsympathetic audience. Doooh! That's the whole point. I still expect him to be a no show at the debate. If I'm not there, it won't be my fault. I'm going to make every reasonable effort to be there. |
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#8
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wrote in message
oups.com Let's kick a little Lyin' Limey butt. Begs the question as to whether or not he knows better. |
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#9
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... wrote in message oups.com wrote: I still expect him to be a no show at the debate. If I'm not there, it won't be my fault. I'm going to make every reasonable effort to be there. Here we go!!!! ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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#10
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Arny Krueger wrote: wrote in message oups.com Let's kick a little Lyin' Limey butt. Begs the question as to whether or not he knows better. I think the way Atkinson dances around certain issues indicates he is more of a deceiver than an ignoramus. |
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#11
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Let's kick a little Lyin' Limey butt. If I'm not mistaken, John Atkinson is an American. Norm Strong |
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#13
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"Arny Krueger" quoted:
"What's wrong with tubes? Nothing, really. " Thanks, Arnold ;-) -- Sander de Waal " SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. " |
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#14
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Arny Krueger wrote: As for the "tube sound," there are two possibilities: (1) It's a figment of the deluded audiophile's imagination, or (2) it's a deliberate coloration introduced by the manufacturer to appeal to corrupted tastes, in which case a solid-state design could easily mimic the sound if the designer were perverse enough to want it that way. Bzzt. More than likely, it is simply that they are trying to run that amplifier that really should be rated at 30-40W instead of a "how large a spike can it produce before it blows out" 100W they stick on it for marketing purposes through inefficient speakers. Of course, the result is a nice 5-10%+ distortion. Since Tubes distort the harmonics instead of creating white noise, you get the classic "tube" sound. Just ask any guitar player.  |
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#15
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"John Atkinson" wrote:
These days, yes Norm. I became a US citizen in August '03. Hi John - As I'm sure you read, "someone" wrote that the reason you feel this debate is "necessary" is because Arny has put a serious dent in the credibility of your magazine. Could you stop laughing for a moment and elaborate a little bit on your statement "necessary". |
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#16
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Tom wrote: As I'm sure you read, "someone" wrote that the reason you feel this debate is "necessary" is because Arny has put a serious dent in the credibility of your magazine. :-) Could you stop laughing for a moment and elaborate a little bit on your statement "necessary". Sure. There are a number of reasons. 1) I am responsible for coming up with a program of "fringe" events for our Shows, and I thought the debate would add to the appeal of HE2005 for would-be showgoers. 2) The subject of blind testing methodology is one that deserves some public discussion. I hope I can make the case that its relevance to audio reviewing has been oversold by those who uncritically believe in it. If not, then I will still have been able to present that case. 3) I welcome public discussion of how published reviews are performed. My writers and I should be prepared to defend what we write, I feel, which is why every show I have helped organize in the US since the first one in 1987 has had one or more "Ask the Editors" sessions where members of the audience are encouraged to "roast" the reviewers. I see this debate continuing in that tradition, as I expect both Mr. Krueger and myself to have our beliefs and experiences challenged by the audience. 3) Mr. Krueger has repeatedly claimed that I am not willing to debate my beliefs and activities in public. Putting to one side the fact that I have done just that at every one of the hi-fi shows in which I have been involved from 1981 to the present, I thought it wwould be appropriate to put an end to his claim. 4) Mr. Krueger has repeatedly claimed that he is willing to repeat the accusations of supposed fraud and incompetence on my part that he makes on the newsgroups to my face in a public debate. I thought it time for him to make good on that claim. 5) I believe that much of Mr. Krueger's criticisms of high-end audio are not based on any experience of the best of what the audio industry has to offer. By inviting Arny Krueger to HE2005, I could make it possible for him to take a listen, if he wished, to some great-sounding systems. 6) Mr. Krueger has been criticizing me ad nauseum on the newsgroups since the winter of 1997. Speaking personally, I would like to meet the man in person. And as I reassured Mr. Krueger last week, this _not_ to serve him with legal papers. :-) John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
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#17
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John Atkinson wrote: Tom wrote: As I'm sure you read, "someone" wrote that the reason you feel this debate is "necessary" is because Arny has put a serious dent in the credibility of your magazine. :-) Could you stop laughing for a moment and elaborate a little bit on your statement "necessary". Sure. There are a number of reasons. 1) I am responsible for coming up with a program of "fringe" events for our Shows, and I thought the debate would add to the appeal of HE2005 for would-be showgoers. 2) The subject of blind testing methodology is one that deserves some public discussion. I hope I can make the case that its relevance to audio reviewing has been oversold by those who uncritically believe in it. If not, then I will still have been able to present that case. 3) I welcome public discussion of how published reviews are performed. My writers and I should be prepared to defend what we write, I feel, which is why every show I have helped organize in the US since the first one in 1987 has had one or more "Ask the Editors" sessions where members of the audience are encouraged to "roast" the reviewers. I see this debate continuing in that tradition, as I expect both Mr. Krueger and myself to have our beliefs and experiences challenged by the audience. 3) Mr. Krueger has repeatedly claimed that I am not willing to debate my beliefs and activities in public. Putting to one side the fact that I have done just that at every one of the hi-fi shows in which I have been involved from 1981 to the present, I thought it wwould be appropriate to put an end to his claim. 4) Mr. Krueger has repeatedly claimed that he is willing to repeat the accusations of supposed fraud and incompetence on my part that he makes on the newsgroups to my face in a public debate. I thought it time for him to make good on that claim. 5) I believe that much of Mr. Krueger's criticisms of high-end audio are not based on any experience of the best of what the audio industry has to offer. By inviting Arny Krueger to HE2005, I could make it possible for him to take a listen, if he wished, to some great-sounding systems. 6) Mr. Krueger has been criticizing me ad nauseum on the newsgroups since the winter of 1997. Speaking personally, I would like to meet the man in person. And as I reassured Mr. Krueger last week, this _not_ to serve him with legal papers. :-) John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile How do you respond to I think Pierce's comment in the high end newsgroup, that it will be just a pis-ing contest with no real relevance to anything. |
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#18
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randy wrote: How do you respond to I think Pierce's comment in the high end newsgroup, that it will be just a pis-ing contest with no real relevance to anything. For people to be discussing the outcome of this debate 10 weeks before it is due to take place seems at best premature and at worst dumb, in my opinion. But I do note that the majority of people posting to r.a.h-e seem to feel Arny Krueger is being set up for a fall, having to debate me in what they feel to be an unsuitable venue in front of an unsuitable audience. I'd like to reassure Mr. Krueger and his supporters on r.a.h-e that the debate will be fair. And as it will be available as a live webcast, as a subsequently streamed audio file, or both, everyone will be able to judge for themselves. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
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#19
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"John Atkinson" wrote
:-) Could you stop laughing for a moment and elaborate a little bit on your statement "necessary". Sure. There are a number of reasons. 1) I am responsible for coming up with a program of "fringe" events for our Shows, and I thought the debate would add to the appeal of HE2005 for would-be showgoers. seems reasonable. 2) The subject of blind testing methodology is one that deserves some public discussion. I hope I can make the case that its relevance to audio reviewing has been oversold by those who uncritically believe in it. If not, then I will still have been able to present that case. seems reasonable. 3) I welcome public discussion of how published reviews are performed. My writers and I should be prepared to defend what we write, I feel, which is why every show I have helped organize in the US since the first one in 1987 has had one or more "Ask the Editors" sessions where members of the audience are encouraged to "roast" the reviewers. I see this debate continuing in that tradition, as I expect both Mr. Krueger and myself to have our beliefs and experiences challenged by the audience. seems reasonable. 3) Mr. Krueger has repeatedly claimed that I am not willing to debate my beliefs and activities in public. Putting to one side the fact that I have done just that at every one of the hi-fi shows in which I have been involved from 1981 to the present, I thought it wwould be appropriate to put an end to his claim. seems reasonable. gosh - all these very reasonable reasons for inviting Arny to this debate. It's not like the little guy said at all. hmmm... 4) Mr. Krueger has repeatedly claimed that he is willing to repeat the accusations of supposed fraud and incompetence on my part that he makes on the newsgroups to my face in a public debate. I thought it time for him to make good on that claim. we'll see. 5) I believe that much of Mr. Krueger's criticisms of high-end audio are not based on any experience of the best of what the audio industry has to offer. By inviting Arny Krueger to HE2005, I could make it possible for him to take a listen, if he wished, to some great-sounding systems. but you know he's "been there - done that." 6) Mr. Krueger has been criticizing me ad nauseum on the newsgroups since the winter of 1997. Speaking personally, I would like to meet the man in person. there are a few "men" we'd like to meet in person, aren't there. this will be interesting. kudos to him providing he shows up. kudos to him if he manages to present and defend his case without acting like a complete fool. i've met you. i know you're a normal guy and a gentleman. i've heard the "illicit recording". i think there' a slight chance Arny's a little to the side of normal. i wonder if he's really coming there with the objective to "kick a little limey butt!" there's a little guy somewhere that will be very disappointed that doesn't happen. but i think we'll all be glued to our terminals for the show. |
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#20
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"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com 5) I believe that much of Mr. Krueger's criticisms of high-end audio are not based on any experience of the best of what the audio industry has to offer. By inviting Arny Krueger to HE2005, I could make it possible for him to take a listen, if he wished, to some great-sounding systems. So says the big man looking down his nose. What kind of a wounded ego does it take to make posts like this? |
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#21
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "John Atkinson" wrote in message oups.com 5) I believe that much of Mr. Krueger's criticisms of high-end audio are not based on any experience of the best of what the audio industry has to offer. By inviting Arny Krueger to HE2005, I could make it possible for him to take a listen, if he wished, to some great-sounding systems. So says the big man looking down his nose. What kind of a wounded ego does it take to make posts like this? Well, now we can all see what's behind your disdain of Stereophile, high end and JA: It's ENVY.CLASS Since you can't afford to enjoy it, you poison it so that no one else can be able to enjoy it. A perverse schadenfreude. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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#22
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John Atkinson wrote: randy wrote: How do you respond to I think Pierce's comment in the high end newsgroup, that it will be just a pis-ing contest with no real relevance to anything. For people to be discussing the outcome of this debate 10 weeks before it is due to take place seems at best premature and at worst dumb, in my opinion. But I do note that the majority of people posting to r.a.h-e seem to feel Arny Krueger is being set up for a fall, having to debate me in what they feel to be an unsuitable venue in front of an unsuitable audience. I'd like to reassure Mr. Krueger and his supporters on r.a.h-e that the debate will be fair. And as it will be available as a live webcast, as a subsequently streamed audio file, or both, everyone will be able to judge for themselves. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile Maybe so, but I posted the event was coming on a thread "do all amps sound the same" on the AVS forum and this was a response from one of the people (a seller of audio equipment in St. Louis, I believe)-- "John will chew her up and spit her out. I've heard her arguements before (and she makes good ones) but I feel she's outgunned by JA. Thanks for the tip, I'll try to make that show." Sounds like Dick may be onto something, but I guess it IS an "entertainment show". |
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#23
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"randy" wrote in message
oups.com How do you respond to I think Pierce's comment in the high end newsgroup, that it will be just a pis-ing contest with no real relevance to anything. Thanks for treating me like I don't exist, Randy. |
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#24
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"randy" wrote in message
oups.com John Atkinson wrote: randy wrote: How do you respond to I think Pierce's comment in the high end newsgroup, that it will be just a pis-ing contest with no real relevance to anything. The alleged debate is going to be what John Atkinson makes it. So far he's done the expected high-handed job of misrepresenting my activities and my viewpoint. He's been corrected, but that effort was just as futile as I expected it to be. For people to be discussing the outcome of this debate 10 weeks before it is due to take place seems at best premature and at worst dumb, in my opinion. But I do note that the majority of people posting to r.a.h-e seem to feel Arny Krueger is being set up for a fall, having to debate me in what they feel to be an unsuitable venue in front of an unsuitable audience. The venue doesn't matter as long as the mics and the video projector works well enough. If Atkinson can't keep his crowd under control any better than he does on RAO, then it's going to be a mess. I'd like to reassure Mr. Krueger and his supporters on r.a.h-e that the debate will be fair. And as it will be available as a live webcast, as a subsequently streamed audio file, or both, everyone will be able to judge for themselves. Atkinson's debating style on RAO has relied heavily on others to intimidate and harass those who might stand up to his self-serving weirdness. It would be even more ugly in person. If he makes it happen, I think it will happen. Maybe so, but I posted the event was coming on a thread "do all amps sound the same" on the AVS forum and this was a response from one of the people (a seller of audio equipment in St. Louis, I believe)-- Is this the same Tom Grooms who shills for Monster Cable? http://www.monstercable.com/speakup/...iew.asp?ID=916 "John will chew her up and spit her out. I've heard her arguements before (and she makes good ones) but I feel she's outgunned by JA. It's hard to get through to people with minds this closed. I'm amazed that he can follow my arguments at all. Thanks for the tip, I'll try to make that show." Sounds like Dick may be onto something, but I guess it IS an "entertainment show". |
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#25
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"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "John Atkinson" wrote in message oups.com 5) I believe that much of Mr. Krueger's criticisms of high-end audio are not based on any experience of the best of what the audio industry has to offer. By inviting Arny Krueger to HE2005, I could make it possible for him to take a listen, if he wished, to some great-sounding systems. So says the big man looking down his nose. What kind of a wounded ego does it take to make posts like this? Well, now we can all see what's behind your disdain of Stereophile, high end and JA: It's ENVY.CLASS It is true that I have more "old rich" values than "new rich" values. I'm not especially into conspicious consumption. I believe that the true measure of wealth is what you give away. Since you can't afford to enjoy it, you poison it so that no one else can be able to enjoy it. That is exactly what it seems that John Atkinson wants to do to good mid-fi. A perverse schadenfreude. John's your guy, Art. Straighten him out if you can. ;-) |
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#26
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Clyde Slick a écrit :
It's ENVY.CLASS Is it a new amplifier class ? (sounds like if Middius was piloting 99% of your posts now. Since you was already suffering of lack of personality... ....Take care you are vanishing Sackman. ;-) |
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#27
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Arny Krueger wrote: "randy" wrote in message oups.com John Atkinson wrote: randy wrote: How do you respond to I think Pierce's comment in the high end newsgroup, that it will be just a pis-ing contest with no real relevance to anything. The alleged debate is going to be what John Atkinson makes it. So far he's done the expected high-handed job of misrepresenting my activities and my viewpoint. I am not sure why you feel that way, Mr. Krueger. The only instance of my discussing your "activities and viewpoints" was the announcement on www.stereophile.com of your particiaption in the HE2005 debate (reprinted, BTW, in the April issue of Stereophile). I initially got the full name of the SWMWTMS wrong, which I admitted and corrected, but you assured me in a r.a.o. posting that I had not misrepresented your viewpoints otherwise. Let's reach for the Google record, yes, here it is: ------------------------------------------------- Arny Krueger wrote in message "John Atkinson" wrote in message oups.com Whatever your reason, I don't think I misresrepresented your position on this subject. [Arny Krueger's opinions of hi-rez media vs CD] Never said you did John... --------------------------------------------------- So if I didn't misrepresent your views, what are you talking about? Or is this another case of the words you write not conveying what you meant to say? He's been corrected, but that effort was just as futile as I expected it to be. But the only point I got wrong was the correct name of SWMWTMS and I did correct that. So why was your effort futile? And I still don't see why this error of mine was so egregious given that a similar error was made in a letter cowritten by you, Mr. Krueger, that was published in Stereophile. For people to be discussing the outcome of this debate 10 weeks before it is due to take place seems at best premature and at worst dumb, in my opinion. But I do note that the majority of people posting to r.a.h-e seem to feel Arny Krueger is being set up for a fall, having to debate me in what they feel to be an unsuitable venue in front of an unsuitable audience. The venue doesn't matter as long as the mics and the video projector works well enough. On this subject, you complained that I ignored your request for PowerPoint facilities for more than a week. Again let's reach for Google: ------------------------------------------------------------------ Arny Krueger wrote in message I seem to recall that I asked you about the availability of means for displaying a Powerpoint presentation. Yes, here it is over a week and no response. http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...e91a97eea9de75 I guess working without a response to this seemingly reasonble question would be something like blind speaking... ;-) -------------------------------------------------------------------- I apologized for not answering your question, explained that I had missed your posting in which you made it. I agreed that we would make this facility available to you, but asked you some followup questions of my own, specifically "In the case of a Powerpoint presentation, would you be using your own laptop, or would you need a PC or Mac to be supplied?" That was on February 10, yet here we are "over a week without a response to this seemingly reasonable question." Why is it so egregious for me to not respond for a week but not egregious for you to do likewise, Mr. Krueger? Please note, BTW, that the Powerpoint presentation you wish to give should last no longer than the 5 minutes you have already agreed to for your opening statement. It is also inappropriate for you to use the PowerPoint presentation for commercial purposes, unless what you wish to say is relevant to the debate. If Atkinson can't keep his crowd under control any better than he does on RAO, then it's going to be a mess. As I have repeatedly reassured you, I control no-one on r.a.o. Everyone here posts on their own initiative. At HE2005, I shall do my best to ensure that members of the audience behave with the appropriate decorum. but I will also not shield either of us, Mr. Krueger, from awkward questions. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "randy" wrote in message oups.com How do you respond to I think Pierce's comment in the high end newsgroup, that it will be just a pis-ing contest with no real relevance to anything. Thanks for treating me like I don't exist, Randy. You always seem to get more than you deserve. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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#29
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"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com Arny Krueger wrote: "randy" wrote in message oups.com John Atkinson wrote: randy wrote: How do you respond to I think Pierce's comment in the high end newsgroup, that it will be just a pis-ing contest with no real relevance to anything. The alleged debate is going to be what John Atkinson makes it. So far he's done the expected high-handed job of misrepresenting my activities and my viewpoint. I am not sure why you feel that way, Mr. Krueger. John, it's because you're too dense to bother with! I've responded to your weird article on Stereophile once, it was a waste of my time. I shan't make that mistake again! |
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#30
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "Clyde Slick" wrote in message "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "John Atkinson" wrote in message oups.com 5) I believe that much of Mr. Krueger's criticisms of high-end audio are not based on any experience of the best of what the audio industry has to offer. By inviting Arny Krueger to HE2005, I could make it possible for him to take a listen, if he wished, to some great-sounding systems. So says the big man looking down his nose. What kind of a wounded ego does it take to make posts like this? Well, now we can all see what's behind your disdain of Stereophile, high end and JA: It's ENVY.CLASS It is true that I have more "old rich" values than "new rich" values. I'm not especially into conspicious consumption. I believe that the true measure of wealth is what you give away. Since you can't afford to enjoy it, you poison it so that no one else can be able to enjoy it. That is exactly what it seems that John Atkinson wants to do to good mid-fi. I've seen numerous positive reviews of good mid fi products in SP Of course, with your lack of taste, and lack of spending power, what you would consider mid fi, the rest of us would conside junk. A perverse schadenfreude. John's your guy, Art. Straighten him out if you can. ;-) Which gives you greater joy? Seeing others miserable or seeing yourself miserable? ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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#31
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"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "Clyde Slick" wrote in message Since you can't afford to enjoy it, you poison it so that no one else can be able to enjoy it. That is exactly what it seems that John Atkinson wants to do to good mid-fi. I've seen numerous positive reviews of good mid fi products in SP Prove it with cites from their web site. JA is currently bragging about trashing a mid fi DVD player. |
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#32
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Arny Krueger wrote: "John Atkinson" wrote in message oups.com Arny Krueger wrote: "randy" wrote in message oups.com The alleged debate is going to be what John Atkinson makes it. So far he's done the expected high-handed job of misrepresenting my activities and my viewpoint. I am not sure why you feel that way, Mr. Krueger. John, it's because you're too dense to bother with! All I am asking, Mr. Krueger, is for you to tell me _how_ I misrepresented your views in the www.stereophile.com article. I have corrected the only error you pointed out, so doesn't the article now correctly describe how you feel about hi-rez media vs CD, LP, tube amplifiers, high-end audio, and Stereophile? I've responded to your weird article on Stereophile once, it was a waste of my time. I shan't make that mistake again! You said in the posting I quoted that I _hadn't_ misrepresented your views but now you say I have. If you let me know what I have written that is untrue concerning your views, Mr. Krueger, I can correct it. And you still haven;t responded to my question from over a week ago: "In the case of a Powerpoint presentation, would you be using your own laptop, or would you need a PC or Mac to be supplied?" The hotel will supply an LCD projector for you to use but if you also need a computer to be available at the debate, I need to know that in advance. Perhaps I _am_ being "dense" but I fail to comprehend why you are avoiding having to answer this question. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
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#33
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Arny Krueger wrote: JA is currently bragging about trashing a mid fi DVD player. Not in any posting retrievable by Google, Mr. Krueger. Here's what Google quotes me as saying on this subject: ------------------------------------------------- "John Atkinson" wrote in Message .com Arny Krueger wrote in : Atkinson can't bring himself to admit despite his alarmist posturing, the better $39.95 DVD players can recover audio signals from real-world CDs that are audibly indistinguishable from the original signal used to produce the CD. ... So much for the possibility of a fair sighted golden ear audiophile test comparing a good $39.95 DVD player to one of the $3995 behemoths that litter the pages of Stereophile. You really do need to read Stereophile beforing venturing opinions on its content, Mr. Krueger. We recently published just such a comparison (though I suppose that as the DVD player cost $50, not $39.95, you will argue that that is a different matter altogether). :-) --------------------------------------------------- Note that I made no mention of the results of this comparison. In actual fact, the $50 player did much better in this comparison than I had expected from its measured performance. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
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#34
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Arny Krueger wrote: "randy" wrote in message oups.com John Atkinson wrote: randy wrote: How do you respond to I think Pierce's comment in the high end newsgroup, that it will be just a pis-ing contest with no real relevance to anything. The alleged debate is going to be what John Atkinson makes it. So far he's done the expected high-handed job of misrepresenting my activities and my viewpoint. He's been corrected, but that effort was just as futile as I expected it to be. For people to be discussing the outcome of this debate 10 weeks before it is due to take place seems at best premature and at worst dumb, in my opinion. But I do note that the majority of people posting to r.a.h-e seem to feel Arny Krueger is being set up for a fall, having to debate me in what they feel to be an unsuitable venue in front of an unsuitable audience. The venue doesn't matter as long as the mics and the video projector works well enough. If Atkinson can't keep his crowd under control any better than he does on RAO, then it's going to be a mess. I'd like to reassure Mr. Krueger and his supporters on r.a.h-e that the debate will be fair. And as it will be available as a live webcast, as a subsequently streamed audio file, or both, everyone will be able to judge for themselves. Atkinson's debating style on RAO has relied heavily on others to intimidate and harass those who might stand up to his self-serving weirdness. It would be even more ugly in person. If he makes it happen, I think it will happen. Maybe so, but I posted the event was coming on a thread "do all amps sound the same" on the AVS forum and this was a response from one of the people (a seller of audio equipment in St. Louis, I believe)-- Is this the same Tom Grooms who shills for Monster Cable? http://www.monstercable.com/speakup/...iew.asp?ID=916 "John will chew her up and spit her out. I've heard her arguements before (and she makes good ones) but I feel she's outgunned by JA. It's hard to get through to people with minds this closed. I'm amazed that he can follow my arguments at all. Thanks for the tip, I'll try to make that show." Sounds like Dick may be onto something, but I guess it IS an "entertainment show". First, didn't mean to treat you like you don't exist. Yes, it is Tom Grooms. |
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#36
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John Atkinson wrote: Arny Krueger wrote: "John Atkinson" wrote in message oups.com Arny Krueger wrote: "randy" wrote in message oups.com The alleged debate is going to be what John Atkinson makes it. So far he's done the expected high-handed job of misrepresenting my activities and my viewpoint. I am not sure why you feel that way, Mr. Krueger. John, it's because you're too dense to bother with! All I am asking, Mr. Krueger, is for you to tell me _how_ I misrepresented your views in the www.stereophile.com article. I have corrected the only error you pointed out, so doesn't the article now correctly describe how you feel about hi-rez media vs CD, LP, tube amplifiers, high-end audio, and Stereophile? I've responded to your weird article on Stereophile once, it was a waste of my time. I shan't make that mistake again! You said in the posting I quoted that I _hadn't_ misrepresented your views but now you say I have. If you let me know what I have written that is untrue concerning your views, Mr. Krueger, I can correct it. And you still haven;t responded to my question from over a week ago: "In the case of a Powerpoint presentation, would you be using your own laptop, or would you need a PC or Mac to be supplied?" The hotel will supply an LCD projector for you to use but if you also need a computer to be available at the debate, I need to know that in advance. Perhaps I _am_ being "dense" but I fail to comprehend why you are avoiding having to answer this question. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile So what happens when Arny does not show up for the debate? He is already planting a lawn full of excuses. What makes you think you aren't just buying Arny a weekend in New York? Scott Wheeler |
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#37
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"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com Arny Krueger wrote: "John Atkinson" wrote in message oups.com Arny Krueger wrote: "randy" wrote in message oups.com The alleged debate is going to be what John Atkinson makes it. So far he's done the expected high-handed job of misrepresenting my activities and my viewpoint. I am not sure why you feel that way, Mr. Krueger. John, it's because you're too dense to bother with! All I am asking, Mr. Krueger, is for you to tell me _how_ I misrepresented your views in the www.stereophile.com article. I told you once. You admitted to the gross error and dismissed most of the rest. I have corrected the only error you pointed out, so doesn't the article now correctly describe how you feel about hi-rez media vs CD, LP, tube amplifiers, high-end audio, and Stereophile? That would be the only gross error that could be proven so completely wrong that it was totally inarguable. I've responded to your weird article on Stereophile once, it was a waste of my time. I shan't make that mistake again! You said in the posting I quoted that I _hadn't_ misrepresented your views but now you say I have. Usual inability to recognize a qualified statement in context, noted. If you let me know what I have written that is untrue concerning your views, Mr. Krueger, I can correct it. Been there, done that. And you still haven;t responded to my question from over a week ago: "In the case of a Powerpoint presentation, would you be using your own laptop, or would you need a PC or Mac to be supplied?" It would lighten my burden if I didn't have to bring a PC laptop along. I will bring a brief presentation illustrated with Powerpoint 2000 or 2003-compatible images. The hotel will supply an LCD projector for you to use but if you also need a computer to be available at the debate, I need to know that in advance. Perhaps I _am_ being "dense" but I fail to comprehend why you are avoiding having to answer this question. I was considering my options. I've decided that if possible, I'll travel light. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
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#38
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"randy" wrote in message
oups.com I apologize for that-how do you respond to same question I asked John. Being: "How do you respond to I think Pierce's comment in the high end newsgroup, that it will be just a pis-ing contest with no real relevance to anything." I can't control the future or even the present actions of John Atkinson. My goal is to give a short technical presentation about why reliable listening tests are a good idea, and who should be doing them, and what the benefits would be. I don't intend to make many conversions. ;-) I noticed that that while Atkinson posted links to my web sites, and my web sites are reasonably active, the links had negligible impact. Given the history of the web sites, particularly PCABX, it appears that SP readers are already as familiar with them as they want to be. Then, as attendees ask reasonable questions, I'll try to provide reasonable answers. I will attempt to comment only minimally on such things as Atkinson says, so that if it turns into a ****ing match, it will be rather obviously one-sided. |
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#39
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Arny Krueger wrote: "John Atkinson" wrote in message oups.com If you let me know what I have written that is untrue concerning your views, Mr. Krueger, I can correct it. Been there, done that. I which case I shall consider the matter closed, Mr. Krueger. Given your unwillingness to substantiate your claims, I request you to stop complaining that I misrepresented your views on these matters. It would lighten my burden if I didn't have to bring a PC laptop along. I will bring a brief presentation illustrated with Powerpoint 2000 or 2003-compatible images. I will make sure we have a PC available for you to use, Mr. Krueger. It will have PowerPoint 2000 on it running under Windows 2000, which is what Primedia's IT department currently makes available to staff. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
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