In trying to solve my Roland VS-880EX backup & archival problem, I'm
left wondering what folks do with one of the newer DAWs that has a big
HDD (like 80GB). If you back up to a CD-R, that's a lot of CDs!

I got a 200GB USB/Firewire external hard drive. No reason why you can't have
several and plug/unplug them as required. In practice I don't back up
everything, just the project files with all the audio etc in them.
Everything else is re-installable from the original installation CDs etc.
--
Phil Wilson
----
"Theodore Kloba" wrote in message
oups.com...
In trying to solve my Roland VS-880EX backup & archival problem, I'm
left wondering what folks do with one of the newer DAWs that has a big
HDD (like 80GB). If you back up to a CD-R, that's a lot of CDs!

dvd lots more room...

dale

In article .com writes:

In trying to solve my Roland VS-880EX backup & archival problem, I'm
left wondering what folks do with one of the newer DAWs that has a big
HDD (like 80GB). If you back up to a CD-R, that's a lot of CDs!

Another hard drive. Some people use Firewire drives for backup. DVDs
are also gaining popularity. And then there's analog tape, the
ultimate backup, but getting a little hard to find these days.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Theodore Kloba" wrote in message
oups.com

In trying to solve my Roland VS-880EX backup & archival problem, I'm
left wondering what folks do with one of the newer DAWs that has a big
HDD (like 80GB). If you back up to a CD-R, that's a lot of CDs!

Hey Theo, there's this new technology called DVD-R... ;-)

DVDs don't even cut it anymore for some types of work. The Walter Reed
thing John and I did turned out to be about 17+ gigs for a 45 minute set, so
at 34 gigs for the two sets we recorded, DVDs wouldn't be practical, neither
in the burning nor the restoring them if more work were needed to be done on
the mixes. Sometimes it just makes sense to run a separate two track FOH
mix because that might just be good enough for the client and it's easily
backed up to DVDs.

But remember, even in this day and age, you don't have digital backed up if
you don't have it backed up on two different storage devices, and
preferrably two different medium types. I guess we need blue laser optical
sooner than later, and at a reasonable price, too! g

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1108513055k@trad...

In article .com
writes:

In trying to solve my Roland VS-880EX backup & archival problem, I'm
left wondering what folks do with one of the newer DAWs that has a big
HDD (like 80GB). If you back up to a CD-R, that's a lot of CDs!

Another hard drive. Some people use Firewire drives for backup. DVDs
are also gaining popularity. And then there's analog tape, the
ultimate backup, but getting a little hard to find these days.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
...
DVDs don't even cut it anymore for some types of work. The Walter Reed
thing John and I did turned out to be about 17+ gigs for a 45 minute set,
so
at 34 gigs for the two sets we recorded, DVDs wouldn't be practical,
neither
in the burning nor the restoring them if more work were needed to be done
on
the mixes. Sometimes it just makes sense to run a separate two track FOH
mix because that might just be good enough for the client and it's easily
backed up to DVDs.

But remember, even in this day and age, you don't have digital backed up
if
you don't have it backed up on two different storage devices, and
preferrably two different medium types. I guess we need blue laser
optical
sooner than later, and at a reasonable price, too! g

We're doing what we can

Glenn D.

FWIW I just saw on the iomega website that they have a firewire 35GB
removable media drive called REV.

There's a SCSI version too, but I couldn't use it with the VS-880EX
since it only has the 68-pin connector, not the 50. They specifically
state that it doesn't support use of a 50-pin SCSI adapter.

Arny Krueger wrote:
Hey Theo, there's this new technology called DVD-R... ;-)

Yes, but it's still an order of magnitude smaller than typical new
HDDs. At my day job, we use LTO tapes (100GB native/200 compressed),
but a drive like that is about as expensive as a top-of-the-line DAW
and I don't know if any DAW would have the drivers to back-up or
restore.

Bottom line is that removable media doesn't seem to be keeping up.

Using multiple firewire HDDs works, but it just seems inherently dumb
to duplicate all the electronics when you fill the thing up. I suppose
it's alright if they're cheap enough.

Maybe the DAW manufacturers are hoping that when you fill up the
internal HDD you'll upgrade to the newest DAW and put the old one in
the attic with your last project stored on it.

Theodore Kloba wrote:
Using multiple firewire HDDs works, but it just seems inherently dumb
to duplicate all the electronics when you fill the thing up. I suppose
it's alright if they're cheap enough.

That's just it. What seems economical is not necessarily the same
as what actually *is* economical when you take into account the
economies of scale that happen with manufacturing PC equipment.

Personally, I like tape for backups too, but for a small installation
with only one or two computers, it doesn't make sense economically.

Well, unless you buy a used DLT 7000 on eBay. These days they can
be had for $100 or less, and they can store up to 35 GB uncompressed
more with compression. The tape drive's internal compression isn't
optimized for audio data, so you can expect little compression on
WAV files. But your other files will usually compress, so you
can probably back up an 80 GB drive with 2 tapes.

Of course, if you do buy a used tape drive, you have to make sure
that it's not near the end of its life. I'm sure everyone here knows
that tape heads don't last forever, although from what I understand,
head wear is less of a problem with DLT than it was with the old
Exabyte 8mm tapes (although my Exabyte 8200 drive is STILL working
fine, although I rarely use it these days, which may be part of the
reason why).

- Logan

second hard drive with a tape as secondary (VXA is great).


"Theodore Kloba" wrote in message
oups.com...
In trying to solve my Roland VS-880EX backup & archival problem, I'm
left wondering what folks do with one of the newer DAWs that has a big
HDD (like 80GB). If you back up to a CD-R, that's a lot of CDs!

Glenn Dowdy wrote:
"Roger W. Norman" wrote in message
...

DVDs don't even cut it anymore for some types of work. The Walter Reed
thing John and I did turned out to be about 17+ gigs for a 45 minute set,

so

at 34 gigs for the two sets we recorded, DVDs wouldn't be practical,

neither

in the burning nor the restoring them if more work were needed to be done

on

the mixes. Sometimes it just makes sense to run a separate two track FOH
mix because that might just be good enough for the client and it's easily
backed up to DVDs.

But remember, even in this day and age, you don't have digital backed up

if

you don't have it backed up on two different storage devices, and
preferrably two different medium types. I guess we need blue laser

optical

sooner than later, and at a reasonable price, too! g

We're doing what we can

Glenn D.


Oh Geez, Glen..can I not get away from you?

:-)

....Joey

In article .com writes:

FWIW I just saw on the iomega website that they have a firewire 35GB
removable media drive called REV.

I first ran into that drive at the last AES show, where iZ was showing
it as a new option for the RADAR recorder. I priced the drive and
media at Fry's right after the show and decided it wasn't ready for me
yet.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1108585523k@trad
In article .com
writes:

FWIW I just saw on the Iomega website that they have a firewire 35GB
removable media drive called REV.

I first ran into that drive at the last AES show, where iZ was showing
it as a new option for the RADAR recorder. I priced the drive and
media at Fry's right after the show and decided it wasn't ready for me
yet.

Agreed.

Right now the drives street price $250-300 with media at $50-60 a pop.

In comparison a DVD burner capable of handling dual layer media runs under
$100, and the media runs in the $5-10 range. It takes 4 dual layer DVD discs
to roughly match the capacity of a REV disk.

It's pretty easy to predict a fairly rapid drop in the price of the dual
layer DVD-R media and perhaps even the emergence of dual layer DVD-RW media.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...



It's pretty easy to predict a fairly rapid drop in the price of the dual
layer DVD-R media

Well, first they have to actually make DL DVD-R. All DL writable DVD media
is +R.


and perhaps even the emergence of dual layer DVD-RW media.

Probably not before blu-ray gets out.

Glenn D.

"Glenn Dowdy" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...



It's pretty easy to predict a fairly rapid drop in the price of the
dual layer DVD-R media

Well, first they have to actually make DL DVD-R. All DL writable DVD
media is +R.

That's a detail I didn't notice, but its obviously true.

My PC burners all do +R and -R so I can get away with not watching such
things not too closely.

and perhaps even the emergence of dual layer DVD-RW media.

Probably not before blu-ray gets out.

That could be the horse race that keeps blu-ray burner prices down.

In article writes:

FWIW I just saw on the Iomega website that they have a firewire 35GB
removable media drive called REV.

Right now the drives street price $250-300 with media at $50-60 a pop.

In comparison a DVD burner capable of handling dual layer media runs under
$100, and the media runs in the $5-10 range. It takes 4 dual layer DVD discs
to roughly match the capacity of a REV disk.

If we're talking the difference between $40 and $50 for 35GB of media,
I'd pay the extra $10 for having it all on one disk. If it's $20 vs.
$60, I might wait a bit to see what happens with REV.

I'm not sure whether it will fly or not. Its most practical use is for
backup. I doubt that too many home users will be using REV disks to
store their photos or home movies. I suspect that it will go the way
of the ZIP drive - the media cost will drop a bit, enough to attract
some users who need removable media of that capacity, but that it will
be eclipsed by something else all too soon.

I used a ZIP drive for backup before I had a computer with a CD
writer. Now I keep the ZIP drive safely packed away in its original
box in case I ever need to access the ZIP disks I still have on the
shelf. I still don't have a DVD writer, but I expect that will be my
next media upgrade.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Theodore Kloba" wrote in message
oups.com

In trying to solve my Roland VS-880EX backup & archival problem,
I'm
left wondering what folks do with one of the newer DAWs that has a
big
HDD (like 80GB). If you back up to a CD-R, that's a lot of CDs!

Hey Theo, there's this new technology called DVD-R... ;-)

My experience with DVD and large datasets (70+ gig sets of high
resolution imagery) had been less than wonderful. Files get dropped,
media becomes unreadable, you can read it on one machine but not
another, etc.

I use it at home for the DAW sometimes, especially since it's pretty
convenient but I don't really trust it.

I use DLT mainly, and just try to do the entire machine every couple of
weeks, and use DVD or CD-R in between.

Hard drives are handy and quick but I don't really trust them either.

DLT is pretty cool, not real fast but not that slow either, and it's
very robust...but it's expensive unless you get the hardware like I did
(dot.bomb yardsale) and you need SCSI, which a lot of people don't have
these days.

Obviously DLT isn't a solution for this guy's Roland VS-880EX problem
tho...

Analogeezer

If you have a DVD that can hold 200GB (I said GB) then you're ahead of the
whole DVD industry.
--
Phil Wilson
----
"dale" wrote in message
oups.com...
dvd lots more room...

dale

"Phil Wilson" wrote in message
...
If you have a DVD that can hold 200GB (I said GB) then you're ahead of the
whole DVD industry.

200DB - that would be Puce-Ray technology.


geoff