Can someone recommend a Mic-Preamp for me?
I'm looking in the 500-750 USD price range. I know it's not a whole lot but
it's the best I can do now.
I would like something that allows me to use four mics at a given time and
is tube.
If that sounds unreasonable I would rather have two inputs and still have
the amp a tube amp.
I need to run this amp through the Mbox so I can record via protools.
Is this doable for the given amount?
I've been looking at the Musicians Friend site and I think I may try to stay
with something they have because I may apply for a credit card with them.
That way I can get better mics than the ones I have at the same time.
Granted that I qualify of course.

Thanks.

IS

IS wrote:
Can someone recommend a Mic-Preamp for me?
I'm looking in the 500-750 USD price range. I know it's not a whole lot but
it's the best I can do now.
I would like something that allows me to use four mics at a given time and
is tube.

$500 will about pay for the input transformers for a four-channel tube
mike preamp.

If that sounds unreasonable I would rather have two inputs and still have
the amp a tube amp.

Why tubes?

I need to run this amp through the Mbox so I can record via protools.
Is this doable for the given amount?
I've been looking at the Musicians Friend site and I think I may try to stay
with something they have because I may apply for a credit card with them.
That way I can get better mics than the ones I have at the same time.
Granted that I qualify of course.

Why not get something that sounds good instead? Have you considered
the RNP? Or even a used Symetrix 202?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article , "IS"
wrote:

Can someone recommend a Mic-Preamp for me?
I'm looking in the 500-750 USD price range. I know it's not a whole lot but
it's the best I can do now.
I would like something that allows me to use four mics at a given time and
is tube.
If that sounds unreasonable I would rather have two inputs and still have
the amp a tube amp.
I need to run this amp through the Mbox so I can record via protools.
Is this doable for the given amount?
I've been looking at the Musicians Friend site and I think I may try to stay
with something they have because I may apply for a credit card with them.
That way I can get better mics than the ones I have at the same time.
Granted that I qualify of course.

Thanks.

IS



Is there some reason you want a tube preamp specifically?

Preamps with 2 inputs in that price range aren't going to be much better than
the M-box preamps, tube or otherwise. The ART tube preamps fall into that price
range, but they are not particularly good. I think you'd be better served to
spend your money on good mics and use the M-Box preamp until you can afford a
better preamp, one that will likely cost at least twice your proposed budget for
just 2 channels.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x

Buy an FMR Really Nice Preamp and if you want 4 channels, then buy 2 of
them.
Adding a silly little tube 'somewhere' in the circuit just for the sake
of having a tube-pre definitely won't give a 'pro' touch/warmth/vintage
tone/colour to your sound.
Don't take my word for it, just google 'RNP' and your browser will
FLOOD only with positive comments about this machine.

Good luck,

Evangelos



%
Evangelos Himonides
IoE, University of London
tel: +44 2076126599
fax: +44 2076126741


"Allas to those who never sing but die with all their music in them..."



Oliver Wendell Holmes
%

OK I'll leave the tubes out of the picture. I'm definately open minded being
as how I really don't even know what I'm talking about. As you may have
figured out.

Between me posting this and now I did some search on M-audio and would like
to ask if the Octane and the Tampa would be any good? I liked what I saw
about the Tampa but all that may be biased.

I will look at the RNP.

Thanks.

IS


Buy an FMR Really Nice Preamp and if you want 4 channels, then buy 2 of
them.
Adding a silly little tube 'somewhere' in the circuit just for the sake
of having a tube-pre definitely won't give a 'pro' touch/warmth/vintage
tone/colour to your sound.
Don't take my word for it, just google 'RNP' and your browser will
FLOOD only with positive comments about this machine.

Good luck,

Evangelos



%
Evangelos Himonides
IoE, University of London
tel: +44 2076126599
fax: +44 2076126741


"Allas to those who never sing but die with all their music in them..."



Oliver Wendell Holmes
%

Damn Scott!
From one 'refresh' to the other, your reply's there....(damn firewall
blocking port 119).
I'm not allowing anyone to buy the SX202s. They are for me!!!
Especially now that I proved to myself that I'm not totally incompetent
and can perform Monte's mods!!!

Another great advise that I got from RAP couple of years ago!

Best wishes,

Evangelos

%
Evangelos Himonides
IoE, University of London
tel: +44 2076126599
fax: +44 2076126741


"Allas to those who never sing but die with all their music in them..."



Oliver Wendell Holmes
%

IS wrote:
OK I'll leave the tubes out of the picture. I'm definately open minded being
as how I really don't even know what I'm talking about. As you may have
figured out.

Between me posting this and now I did some search on M-audio and would like
to ask if the Octane and the Tampa would be any good? I liked what I saw
about the Tampa but all that may be biased.

I will look at the RNP.

What is your overall budget including interface? What software will you be using? If it's anything other than ProTools, you might consider the RNP paired with a Lynx L22 (about $1000 together.)

"IS" wrote in message
. com...
OK I'll leave the tubes out of the picture. I'm definately open minded
being
as how I really don't even know what I'm talking about. As you may have
figured out.

Between me posting this and now I did some search on M-audio and would
like
to ask if the Octane and the Tampa would be any good? I liked what I saw
about the Tampa but all that may be biased.

Check out the Sytek if you want four good neutral-sounding channels. Street
price is about $750 if you search hard enough.

If you want two channels of more colored sound, the Peavey VMP-2 shows up
with some regularity on e-bay. However, if it were me, I'd start with some
uncolored channels first, and add flavors later.

I have not heard either the Octane or the Tampa, but my impression of
M-audio's preamps in general (I think most of their designs use the same mic
preamp circuit) is that they're nothing to celebrate -- competent, but
that's about it. An RNP or a Sytek will sound significantly better in most
applications.

Peace,
Paul

http://www.sytek-audio-systems.com/

You could try looking for a used one.

Al

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:18:58 GMT, "IS" wrote:

Can someone recommend a Mic-Preamp for me?
I'm looking in the 500-750 USD price range. I know it's not a whole lot but
it's the best I can do now.
I would like something that allows me to use four mics at a given time and
is tube.
If that sounds unreasonable I would rather have two inputs and still have
the amp a tube amp.
I need to run this amp through the Mbox so I can record via protools.
Is this doable for the given amount?
I've been looking at the Musicians Friend site and I think I may try to stay
with something they have because I may apply for a credit card with them.
That way I can get better mics than the ones I have at the same time.
Granted that I qualify of course.

Thanks.

IS

The Mbox is only a 2 input interface. Comprende? Without submixing,
how are you going to record 4 channels at once?
Later,
m

In article m writes:

OK I'll leave the tubes out of the picture. I'm definately open minded being
as how I really don't even know what I'm talking about. As you may have
figured out.

Then maybe you're a good person to ask. What is it that made you ask
about a tube preamp? I guess maybe you heard somewhere that tubes were
a good thing. Or maybe our jargon has become corrupt to the point
where the term "tube preamp" has replaced "mic premap." Marketing
departments want to know.

Between me posting this and now I did some search on M-audio and would like
to ask if the Octane and the Tampa would be any good? I liked what I saw
about the Tampa but all that may be biased.

There's something I just don't trust about a piece of gear that has a
circuit (the TAMPA thing) that nobody can explain what it does. Used
to be that you could get a Sytek 4-channel preamp on the high side of
your budget. But I know very little about prices, and even less about
how much you have to pay over there for stuff that's within your
budget over here.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Then maybe you're a good person to ask. What is it that made you ask
about a tube preamp? I guess maybe you heard somewhere that tubes were
a good thing. Or maybe our jargon has become corrupt to the point
where the term "tube preamp" has replaced "mic premap." Marketing
departments want to know.


I asked for a tube preamp because I remember reading somewhere that they
tend to give you a warmer over all sound. That's what I'm looking for since
my NT5's through the Mbox were so bright and had a lot of presence with not
much depth.
I was thinking I might want to start by getting a nice warm sounding tube
mic preamp with a single the KM 184 at about 4-5 feet away. That aught to
"warm" things up is what I thought.
But I guess there is no such thing as a nice sounding tube mic pre for the
price range I mentioned.
Therefore I am completely open. I did some reading on the "Really Nice
Preamp" and what I read sounded good except I don't know if it'll be too
noisy for my single classical guitar playing.
Single meaning nothing else going on.

Thanks

IS

IS wrote:

I guess there is no such thing as a nice sounding tube mic pre for the
price range I mentioned.

Probably not, unless you are a competent repair/rework guy.




I did some reading on the "Really Nice Preamp"
and what I read sounded good except I don't know if it'll be too
noisy for my single classical guitar playing.

With condenser mics you will definitely not have any problems. With ribbon mics you could run into some issues (soft playing, several feet away from the instrument.) I wouldn't worry about it.

Get an RNP. Get a decent soundcard. Buy some decent monitors (this is hugely important.) Treat your room acoustics if needed (also huge.) Then start trying different mics until you find what you like.

I got most of that what you mention.
The monitors I got are Event TR8.
I though I didn't need a great sound chard with the M-Box because of the USB
capabilities.
Is that something I should get?
If so do I go directly out of the RNP into the M-Box then into the soundcard
or can I stay with the USB?
If you recommend I go through a soundcard how will PT know I'm recording?

I am mostly done with treating the room. It made a huge difference in the
over all recording quality.

Thanks Kurt. I'm seriously looking into the RNP.

IS



Get an RNP. Get a decent soundcard. Buy some decent monitors (this is
hugely important.) Treat your room acoustics if needed (also huge.) Then
start trying different mics until you find what you like.

IS wrote:

The monitors I got are Event TR8.

I have not hear them, surely others can comment intelligently.


I though I didn't need a great sound chard with the M-Box because of the USB
capabilities.
Is that something I should get?
If so do I go directly out of the RNP into the M-Box then into the soundcard
or can I stay with the USB?
If you recommend I go through a soundcard how will PT know I'm recording?

That's why I asked earlier about software. If you are using PT LE you will have to stick with the MBox.




I am mostly done with treating the room. It made a huge difference in the
over all recording quality.

Good, that's something we usually have trouble convincing people of.

IS wrote:

I did some reading on the "Really Nice
Preamp" and what I read sounded good except I don't know if it'll be too
noisy for my single classical guitar playing.
Single meaning nothing else going on.

What mics do you have? The RNP won't give good results with mics like
the Beyer M160's and some other ribbon mics because they have very
little output. But with a pair of decent modern condensors you won't
have a problem with preamp noise.

--
ha

Buy an FMR Really Nice Preamp and if you want 4 channels, then buy 2

Spoken like a troo genius =)

Listen to this fellow and buy an RNP!!!!!!!!!

--

Jonny Durango

"Patrick was a saint. I ain't."

http://www.jdurango.com



"Evangelos Himonides" wrote in message
oups.com...
Buy an FMR Really Nice Preamp and if you want 4 channels, then buy 2 of
them.
Adding a silly little tube 'somewhere' in the circuit just for the sake
of having a tube-pre definitely won't give a 'pro' touch/warmth/vintage
tone/colour to your sound.
Don't take my word for it, just google 'RNP' and your browser will
FLOOD only with positive comments about this machine.

Good luck,

Evangelos



%
Evangelos Himonides
IoE, University of London
tel: +44 2076126599
fax: +44 2076126741


"Allas to those who never sing but die with all their music in them..."



Oliver Wendell Holmes
%

"IS" wrote in message
om...

I asked for a tube preamp because I remember reading somewhere that they
tend to give you a warmer over all sound. That's what I'm looking for
since
my NT5's through the Mbox were so bright and had a lot of presence with
not
much depth.
I was thinking I might want to start by getting a nice warm sounding tube
mic preamp with a single the KM 184 at about 4-5 feet away. That aught to
"warm" things up is what I thought.
But I guess there is no such thing as a nice sounding tube mic pre for the
price range I mentioned.

There is if you can find a Peavey VMP-2. And then there's the Groove Tubes
Brick -- I haven't heard it yet, but rumor has it they're finally shipping.
Single channel, I think $450 street price, real tubes (not a bad solid-state
preamp with a tube configured for adding distortion, which I think borders
on fraud).

Peace,
Paul

In article writes:

I asked for a tube preamp because I remember reading somewhere that they
tend to give you a warmer over all sound. That's what I'm looking for since
my NT5's through the Mbox were so bright and had a lot of presence with not
much depth.

Thanks for the honest answer. Marketing and the rumor mill are doing a
good job. It's really the mics that are at fault, not the preamps, and
it's a product of the times recently gone by. With an emphasis on
brightness and high frequency clarity, the flood of mics that we've had
in the past five years of so emphasize the uppper and upper-mid
frequency range pretty much across the board. When people started to
get over this craze, they wanted a clear, open sound, but one without
peaks. A tube preamp with a not-so-great input transformer was both an
inexpensive and exoticly enticing way to trim the high end and add
some low frequency distortion. Good (expensive) tube preamps don't do
this.

I was thinking I might want to start by getting a nice warm sounding tube
mic preamp with a single the KM 184 at about 4-5 feet away. That aught to
"warm" things up is what I thought.

A KM184 at that distance will require a very good sounding room,
otherwise you'll have a lot of stuff getting into your recordings that
you don't want. A tube preamp isn't going to significantly change the
frequency response of the microphone. You'd do better by simply
adjusting the equalization on the track. There's nothing wrong with
that.

But I guess there is no such thing as a nice sounding tube mic pre for the
price range I mentioned.

There is, but it's not going to solve your problem. You might be
better off putting your money into a mic that's better matched to the
source you're trying to record.

Therefore I am completely open. I did some reading on the "Really Nice
Preamp" and what I read sounded good except I don't know if it'll be too
noisy for my single classical guitar playing.

You can certainly give it a try. The dealers it's sold through will
allow you to return it for a refund if it doesn't do the job you need.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

IS wrote:

I asked for a tube preamp because I remember reading somewhere that they
tend to give you a warmer over all sound. That's what I'm looking for since
my NT5's through the Mbox were so bright and had a lot of presence with not
much depth.

If you don't like the way the mike sounds, get a mike that sounds the way
you want it.

I was thinking I might want to start by getting a nice warm sounding tube
mic preamp with a single the KM 184 at about 4-5 feet away. That aught to
"warm" things up is what I thought.

Why not just use a KM84 instead? If you want something that is more rounded
on top, the KM84 is a much better choice than the KM184.

But I guess there is no such thing as a nice sounding tube mic pre for the
price range I mentioned.
Therefore I am completely open. I did some reading on the "Really Nice
Preamp" and what I read sounded good except I don't know if it'll be too
noisy for my single classical guitar playing.

Try it and see. It's certainly a hell of a lot quieter than most of the
crap you'll find in that price range. It's not as quiet as the Great
River or the Millennia Media, which are several times the price. Life is
like that.

You'll probably find the room noise is much more of an issue... and with
the NT5 you'll find the mike is probably noisier than the RNP anyway.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Why not just use a KM84 instead? If you want something that is more
rounded
on top, the KM84 is a much better choice than the KM184.

Scott,

They seem to be near impossible to find for sale. I'll keep my eyes on Ebay
for a while.
Probably can never find a matched pair.

Thanks

IS

IS wrote:
Why not just use a KM84 instead? If you want something that is more
rounded
on top, the KM84 is a much better choice than the KM184.

They seem to be near impossible to find for sale. I'll keep my eyes on Ebay
for a while.

Call Mercenary. They probably have some.

Probably can never find a matched pair.

That's okay, you don't need them to be matched.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Paul Stamler wrote:

"IS" wrote...

I asked for a tube preamp because I remember reading somewhere that they
tend to give you a warmer over all sound. That's what I'm looking for
since my NT5's through the Mbox were so bright and had a lot of presence
with not much depth.
I was thinking I might want to start by getting a nice warm sounding tube
mic preamp with a single the KM 184 at about 4-5 feet away. That aught to
"warm" things up is what I thought.
But I guess there is no such thing as a nice sounding tube mic pre for the
price range I mentioned.

There is if you can find a Peavey VMP-2. And then there's the Groove Tubes
Brick -- I haven't heard it yet, but rumor has it they're finally shipping.
Single channel, I think $450 street price, real tubes (not a bad solid-state
preamp with a tube configured for adding distortion, which I think borders
on fraud).

But the VMP is only two channel and four were wanted.

I have a nice VMP2 for sale for $500 firm, and an upgraded Roll RP220
for sale for $150, plus shipping in both cases. That'd get four channels
for $650 and shipping.

--
ha

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:21:22 -0500, IS wrote
(in article ) :

Then maybe you're a good person to ask. What is it that made you ask
about a tube preamp? I guess maybe you heard somewhere that tubes were
a good thing. Or maybe our jargon has become corrupt to the point
where the term "tube preamp" has replaced "mic premap." Marketing
departments want to know.


I asked for a tube preamp because I remember reading somewhere that they
tend to give you a warmer over all sound. That's what I'm looking for since
my NT5's through the Mbox were so bright and had a lot of presence with not
much depth.
I was thinking I might want to start by getting a nice warm sounding tube
mic preamp with a single the KM 184 at about 4-5 feet away. That aught to
"warm" things up is what I thought.
But I guess there is no such thing as a nice sounding tube mic pre for the
price range I mentioned.
Therefore I am completely open. I did some reading on the "Really Nice
Preamp" and what I read sounded good except I don't know if it'll be too
noisy for my single classical guitar playing.
Single meaning nothing else going on.

Thanks

IS

Good tubes are better than bad solid state. Good solid state is better than
bad tubes.

A warmer tube sound with crappy mics is still just warm crap.

Regards,

Ty Ford




-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:55:04 -0500, Kurt Albershardt wrote
(in article ):

IS wrote:

The monitors I got are Event TR8.

I have not hear them, surely others can comment intelligently.


I though I didn't need a great sound chard with the M-Box because of the USB
capabilities.
Is that something I should get?
If so do I go directly out of the RNP into the M-Box then into the soundcard
or can I stay with the USB?
If you recommend I go through a soundcard how will PT know I'm recording?

That's why I asked earlier about software. If you are using PT LE you will
have to stick with the MBox.

Kurt, what are you smoking? PTLE also runs on the Digi 002. The preamps in
which, btw, are pretty good.

I am mostly done with treating the room. It made a huge difference in the
over all recording quality.

Good, that's something we usually have trouble convincing people of.

yum.

Regards,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:46:05 GMT, "IS" wrote:

Why not just use a KM84 instead? If you want something that is more
rounded
on top, the KM84 is a much better choice than the KM184.

Scott,

They seem to be near impossible to find for sale. I'll keep my eyes on Ebay
for a while.
Probably can never find a matched pair.

After owning a pair, I think the KM84s are a bit overrated. They do
have a smoother top end than many new mics but the low end on them
sounded a little mushy to me.

Al

In article m writes:

the KM84 is a much better choice than the KM184.

They seem to be near impossible to find for sale. I'll keep my eyes on Ebay
for a while.
Probably can never find a matched pair.

If you're doing single point stereo recording, it's important that the
mics be pretty well matched in level, frequency response, and
polar pattern, but for things like drum overheads, it's not that
important.

As far as the KM84 (and KM184 for that matter) goes, they're not
normally sold in matched pairs. Even two mics iwth consecutive
serial numbers (or more accurately two capsules iwth consecutive
serial numbers) won't necessarily be better matched than any two
properly working mics picked from a pile. They're just made that
consistently. For mics like Oktava where manufacturing tolerances
go all over them map, it's worth getting them matched if you need
two that sound very close to the same, but anyone who thinks he
has a matched pair of KM84s for sale is either lying or has had
them selected outside of Neumann. Both are possible, and I believe
that on rare occasions Neumann has sold matched pairs, but if
you're paying extra for the "matching" you'd best get some sort
of documentation indicating who, how, when, and where they were
matched.





--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Ty Ford wrote:
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:55:04 -0500, Kurt Albershardt wrote
(in article ):

That's why I asked earlier about software. If you are using PT LE you will
have to stick with the MBox.


Kurt, what are you smoking? PTLE also runs on the Digi 002.

Smoking nothing--just addressing his question as to whether he needs to buy another soundcard or not.

play_on wrote:

After owning a pair, I think the KM84s are a bit overrated. They do
have a smoother top end than many new mics but the low end on them
sounded a little mushy to me.

Have you ever been able to compare them to the Josephson Series 4's?

--
ha

Mbox , 002 or 001 if you still have one [ 6.4 last software to support 001 ]

regards Greg


"Kurt Albershardt" wrote in message
...
Ty Ford wrote:
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:55:04 -0500, Kurt Albershardt wrote
(in article ):

That's why I asked earlier about software. If you are using PT LE you
will
have to stick with the MBox.


Kurt, what are you smoking? PTLE also runs on the Digi 002.

Smoking nothing--just addressing his question as to whether he needs to
buy another soundcard or not.

GKB wrote:

"Kurt Albershardt" wrote in message
...

Ty Ford wrote:

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:55:04 -0500, Kurt Albershardt wrote
(in article ):


That's why I asked earlier about software. If you are using PT LE
you will have to stick with the MBox.


Kurt, what are you smoking? PTLE also runs on the Digi 002.

Smoking nothing--just addressing his question as to whether he needs
to buy another soundcard or not.

Mbox , 002 or 001 if you still have one [ 6.4 last software to support 001 ]

regards Greg

Regards are fine--but from what I understand, he already owns an MBox.

Perhaps that is more for Ty than you , regrets to you

regards Greg

"Kurt Albershardt" wrote in message
...
GKB wrote:

"Kurt Albershardt" wrote in message
...

Ty Ford wrote:

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:55:04 -0500, Kurt Albershardt wrote
(in article ):


That's why I asked earlier about software. If you are using PT LE
you will have to stick with the MBox.


Kurt, what are you smoking? PTLE also runs on the Digi 002.

Smoking nothing--just addressing his question as to whether he needs
to buy another soundcard or not.

Mbox , 002 or 001 if you still have one [ 6.4 last software to support
001 ]

regards Greg

Regards are fine--but from what I understand, he already owns an MBox.

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:50:28 GMT, (hank alrich)
wrote:

play_on wrote:

After owning a pair, I think the KM84s are a bit overrated. They do
have a smoother top end than many new mics but the low end on them
sounded a little mushy to me.

Have you ever been able to compare them to the Josephson Series 4's?

I haven't tried the Josephsons but they didn't compare well to an
AT4051 or the pair of Schoeps I ended up buying. I wouldn't be
surprised if the Josephons were better than the old Neumanns. Even
the old pair of Calrec mics I have sound a little firmer on the lows
than the KM84s, although they are noisier. But the KM84s do make a
pretty sound on some stringed instruments, I just prefer a tighter low
end.

Al

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1108574959k@trad...
Both are possible, and I believe
that on rare occasions Neumann has sold matched pairs, but if
you're paying extra for the "matching" you'd best get some sort
of documentation indicating who, how, when, and where they were
matched.

NOW you tell me, I think I paid extra at swee****er for a match pair
(km184). . oh well , it's only money. .lol. .
--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/