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#1
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Triggering PC Samples with audio inputs
I am looking for a cost effective way to trigger audio samples with my
PC. I want to trigger with a piezo element or simular pressure sensitive device that will give me levels of signal with how hard I hit it. I have seen people doing this with Remo Practice pads and mounting the Piezo underneath and hooking the phone jack into trigger inputs on a sampler. I can do what I want with a Roland TCM6, which converts drum triggers to MIDI and then run into my computer and trigger with MIDI compatable PC samplers like Fruity Loops. This would get a little expensive since I need 10 or so samples and the TCM6 does only 6 for $250.00. So if anyone knows a cheaper external device that converts to midi, let me know. What I would like to do is run the piezo outputs into a mixer like a Mackie onyx 1620 and run the 16 firewire independant audio tracks into the computer and trigger from picking those. This wouldn't be cheaper, but I need a good mixer anyways. If anyone has some ideas, I would love to hear them. |
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#2
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"blisspikle" wrote in message oups.com... I am looking for a cost effective way to trigger audio samples with my PC. I want to trigger with a piezo element or simular pressure sensitive device that will give me levels of signal with how hard I hit it. I have seen people doing this with Remo Practice pads and mounting the Piezo underneath and hooking the phone jack into trigger inputs on a sampler. I can do what I want with a Roland TCM6, which converts drum triggers to MIDI and then run into my computer and trigger with MIDI compatable PC samplers like Fruity Loops. This would get a little expensive since I need 10 or so samples and the TCM6 does only 6 for $250.00. So if anyone knows a cheaper external device that converts to midi, let me know. You may want to consider picking up a used Alesis DM-5. There's one on eBay right now for $225. That will give you 12 configurable trigger inputs in a rack mount unit. Run a MIDI cable from it to your computer and you're set. You'll save $25 on a trigger-to-MIDI box, and pick up a nice drum sound module for "free." Check out the Alesis web site support section, download the DM-5 manual, and decide if that suits your purposes. John LeBlanc Houston, TX |
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#3
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John_LeBlanc wrote: "blisspikle" wrote in message oups.com... I am looking for a cost effective way to trigger audio samples with my PC. I want to trigger with a piezo element or simular pressure sensitive device that will give me levels of signal with how hard I hit it. I have seen people doing this with Remo Practice pads and mounting the Piezo underneath and hooking the phone jack into trigger inputs on a sampler. I can do what I want with a Roland TCM6, which converts drum triggers to MIDI and then run into my computer and trigger with MIDI compatable PC samplers like Fruity Loops. This would get a little expensive since I need 10 or so samples and the TCM6 does only 6 for $250.00. So if anyone knows a cheaper external device that converts to midi, let me know. You may want to consider picking up a used Alesis DM-5. There's one on eBay right now for $225. That will give you 12 configurable trigger inputs in a rack mount unit. Run a MIDI cable from it to your computer and you're set. You'll save $25 on a trigger-to-MIDI box, and pick up a nice drum sound module for "free." Check out the Alesis web site support section, download the DM-5 manual, and decide if that suits your purposes. John LeBlanc Houston, TX |
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#4
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"John_LeBlanc" wrote in message ... "blisspikle" wrote in message oups.com... I am looking for a cost effective way to trigger audio samples with my PC. I want to trigger with a piezo element or simular pressure sensitive device that will give me levels of signal with how hard I hit it. I have seen people doing this with Remo Practice pads and mounting the Piezo underneath and hooking the phone jack into trigger inputs on a sampler. I can do what I want with a Roland TCM6, which converts drum triggers to MIDI and then run into my computer and trigger with MIDI compatable PC samplers like Fruity Loops. This would get a little expensive since I need 10 or so samples and the TCM6 does only 6 for $250.00. So if anyone knows a cheaper external device that converts to midi, let me know. You may want to consider picking up a used Alesis DM-5. There's one on eBay right now for $225. That will give you 12 configurable trigger inputs in a rack mount unit. Run a MIDI cable from it to your computer and you're set. You'll save $25 on a trigger-to-MIDI box, and pick up a nice drum sound module for "free." Check out the Alesis web site support section, download the DM-5 manual, and decide if that suits your purposes. John LeBlanc Houston, TX Yes, I use the DM-5 for this purpose and it works very nicely Doug |
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#5
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Even an Alesis D4 (same trigger inputs) at about $100-125 would do this.
David "John_LeBlanc" wrote in message ... "blisspikle" wrote in message oups.com... I am looking for a cost effective way to trigger audio samples with my PC. I want to trigger with a piezo element or simular pressure sensitive device that will give me levels of signal with how hard I hit it. I have seen people doing this with Remo Practice pads and mounting the Piezo underneath and hooking the phone jack into trigger inputs on a sampler. I can do what I want with a Roland TCM6, which converts drum triggers to MIDI and then run into my computer and trigger with MIDI compatable PC samplers like Fruity Loops. This would get a little expensive since I need 10 or so samples and the TCM6 does only 6 for $250.00. So if anyone knows a cheaper external device that converts to midi, let me know. You may want to consider picking up a used Alesis DM-5. There's one on eBay right now for $225. That will give you 12 configurable trigger inputs in a rack mount unit. Run a MIDI cable from it to your computer and you're set. You'll save $25 on a trigger-to-MIDI box, and pick up a nice drum sound module for "free." Check out the Alesis web site support section, download the DM-5 manual, and decide if that suits your purposes. John LeBlanc Houston, TX |
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#6
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Oh, I'm glad to see people using the DM-5 for this, because I went and
read up on it before; and I though that you could control it from a computer, but you could not control the computer from the DM-5. Some MIDI units are only IN, and not OUT I think? If anyone has used both the TMC-6 from Roland and the DM-5 from Alesis, can you tell a noticable difference in how good they trigger, such as quick response and the how well it picks up different levels of hits. Also, I was wondering the difference between the TMC-6, which says that it has the ability to do ... Supports separate head/rim shot triggering of PD-120/80R V-Pads Supports 3-way triggering of CY-15R and CY-12R/C V-Cymbals Works with FD-7 hi-hat control pedal I am interested in knowing how the separate triggering works, Is this for one input? And how does the hi-hat control? Does the Alesis do all this? Can you set up an Alesis for a hi-hat type setup? Well, that is a lot. Maybe someone should just recommend a book for me? |
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#7
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blisspikle wrote:
I am looking for a cost effective way to trigger audio samples with my PC. Me too, I already have an Alesis D-4 and would like to get rid of it, as I use SONAR 3 I've gotten more into the entire soft-sampler approach to drum tracks. Certainly an audio track could record signals from a piezo trigger, any plug-in or even external program that would scan a WAV file for impulses and do a replace of course with velocity too? Hmmm the ideal would be an audio plug-in that you could route to the virtual MIDI in of a soft sampler, all within SONAR, in order to enable real time triggering. This is all pipe dream as 2 year old twins effectively erase all free time, the rest is spent passed out from exhaustion - but that will pass eventually. |
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#9
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"blisspikle" wrote in message oups.com... Oh, I'm glad to see people using the DM-5 for this, because I went and read up on it before; and I though that you could control it from a computer, but you could not control the computer from the DM-5. Some MIDI units are only IN, and not OUT I think? If anyone has used both the TMC-6 from Roland and the DM-5 from Alesis, can you tell a noticable difference in how good they trigger, such as quick response and the how well it picks up different levels of hits. Also, I was wondering the difference between the TMC-6, which says that it has the ability to do ... Supports separate head/rim shot triggering of PD-120/80R V-Pads Supports 3-way triggering of CY-15R and CY-12R/C V-Cymbals Works with FD-7 hi-hat control pedal I am interested in knowing how the separate triggering works, Is this for one input? And how does the hi-hat control? Does the Alesis do all this? Can you set up an Alesis for a hi-hat type setup? Well, that is a lot. Maybe someone should just recommend a book for me? Yes, as I suggested, go to the Alesis web site, to the Support section, and download the manual for the DM-5. Everything you need to know is in there. Before I responded to your question yesterday, I not only downloaded the DM-5 manual, but also went to the Roland site and endured their convoluted process to obtain a PDF of their manual. After comparing it to the Alesis, I can't imagine why you'd want the Roland over the Alesis, but YMMV. BTW, I just saw an ad for an Alesis DM-5 for $125. John LeBlanc Houston, TX |
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#10
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"Tim A" wrote in message ... Once you track your acoustic drums, you can replace them with your own samples using Drumagog http://www.drumagog.com/ It's good tool for layering drum samples too. Check it out. And if you want to play with the concept, KTDrumTrigger is pretty cool, and it's free: http://www.koen.smartelectronix.com/KTDrumTrigger/ I recently used it to replace a horrible sounding snare recorded from -- ironically enough -- a drum module. John LeBlanc Houston, tx |
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#11
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Wow, hey thanks John. I'll drive it around the block awhile. Hopefully
it'll be handy, for those sessions where the drummer insists that his 15 year old snare head is not getting changed. John_LeBlanc wrote: "Tim A" wrote in message ... Once you track your acoustic drums, you can replace them with your own samples using Drumagog http://www.drumagog.com/ It's good tool for layering drum samples too. Check it out. And if you want to play with the concept, KTDrumTrigger is pretty cool, and it's free: http://www.koen.smartelectronix.com/KTDrumTrigger/ I recently used it to replace a horrible sounding snare recorded from -- ironically enough -- a drum module. John LeBlanc Houston, tx -- Peace, Tim Aymar - Perfect Audio http://timaymar.com To shut down your computer, click the start button. |
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#12
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Hahaha yeah, man. Some of the jazz cats really like that "seasoned
sound", green cymbals and all, but that works for real jazz. I had an episode with a drummer once who THOUGHT he was a jazz drummer, but he was in a metal band, and he wouldn't let us cut a vent in the front head to get a mic in it. PLENTY O' TRIGGERING was necessary, believe me. The other problem was he couldn't groove either, and we were linear at the time. So needless to say, that recording's not on my reel. I'm having a little difficulty with the KTfx plugin. I run Sonar 2.2 and tried to convert the VST plug to DXi and it just won't go. I'll have to try it in cubase I guess, until I can set up another boot with XP and do S3, or is it only 4 that'll do VST? Glennbo wrote: The entity known as Tim A, posted: Hopefully it'll be handy, for those sessions where the drummer insists that his 15 year old snare head is not getting changed. 15 years old? It's just getting broken in, isn't it? g -- Peace, Tim Aymar - Perfect Audio http://timaymar.com To shut down your computer, click the start button. |
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#13
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I was reading a little on the DM Pro. Does anyone know why this was
discontinued? It looks like such a great product. I bit a little giddy when I see bits go up, and all the 6 indivual audio outputs look nice. They are selling higher on ebay then the DM5, so someone must still want them. |
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#14
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"blisspikle" wrote in message oups.com... I was reading a little on the DM Pro. Does anyone know why this was discontinued? It looks like such a great product. I bit a little giddy when I see bits go up, and all the 6 indivual audio outputs look nice. They are selling higher on ebay then the DM5, so someone must still want them. Some people do still want them. But then some people prefer the Alesis HR-16B, or that awful SR-16 to the original HR-16, which I think still sounds pretty darn good all things considered. As to the DM5 versus the DM Pro, it all depends on what you really want out of the unit. Do you want a trigger-to-MIDI, a quality sound module, both? There are several differences between the two units, and I'd be willing to bet only one of them will really matter to you based on what you stated you're looking for: the DM5 has 12 trigger inputs. The DM Pro has 16. But those extra 4 trigger inputs come with some baggage. The rest of the differences have to do with audio and, while the DM Pro does sport 20-bit samples and 24-bit effects, the DM5's DAC is 18-bit and the difference in sound quality isn't all that enormous to my ears. YMMV. As to samples, the DM Pro has twice as many sounds at 20-bit compared to the DM5's 18-bit; as to number of voices the DM Pro has 64 voice polyphony, the DM5 has 16; and audio outputs - the DM Pro has 6 assignable unbalanced outs, the DM5 has 4. Does audio matter to you? The other big difference between the two is the programmable samples you can play from the card of the DM Pro, a feature not available on the DM5. But I wouldn't get too jazzed about that, either. The DM Pro requires a PCMCIA card and even 8Mb cards aren't cheap. It plays exactly what's on the card; it doesn't load them into the unit and allow you to layer four voices like the DM Pro's factory patches can. That means you have to create a finished sample and store it on the card. For pity's sake, why bother? Use the DM Pro to fire off a soft sampler like you're wanting to do and be done with it. With all the quality drum sample sets available I'd rather shoot my toes off one at a time than have to create individual samples to fit on an 8Mb card. All that being said, there's a couple of other reasons I'd stick with the DM5, aside from it being $100 to $150 cheaper. The DM5 is still in production; the DM Pro was discontinued. The DM PRO had a software upgrade last year. Most probably you'd want one with version 2.0; it fixed a few glitches in both audio and triggering, but unfortunately, broke the cymbal choke feature of version 1.x. That was helpful. If the unit doesn't already have the upgrade, it'll cost you $50 plus shipping from Alesis for the two EPROMS. Changing them out is a matter of five screws and careful handling of the EPROMS. Also, the DM PRO runs hotter than either the DM4 or the DM5. This caused many units to heat the circuit boards and expose a really annoying habit of some of the solder joints to go bad. Unfortunately these tend to be around the EPROM sockets. One of the EPROMS is the one that handles triggering functions. ("Trig BIST failure" is an annoying message to read on the LCD display, which also has a habit of dimming for no good reason.) If you're handy with a soldering iron and don't mind pulling the thing apart, you can fix it yourself. Otherwise, plan on a $150 trip to Alesis. Now, I happen to really like my DM Pro. I've fixed the above issues with mine and if it craps out on me, I'll likely replace it with a used one. But for straight, mostly worry free triggering, for the price of a used unit just stick with the DM5. My DM5 has never once glitched on me. Ever. Again, YMMV. John LeBlanc Houston, TX |
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#15
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I have a good friend that is a percussion teacher and recording guy in
Houston (Katy Tx). Danny Jones. Have you ever run into him? He's a really great guy. Max Arwood "John_LeBlanc" wrote in message ... "blisspikle" wrote in message oups.com... I was reading a little on the DM Pro. Does anyone know why this was discontinued? It looks like such a great product. I bit a little giddy when I see bits go up, and all the 6 indivual audio outputs look nice. They are selling higher on ebay then the DM5, so someone must still want them. Some people do still want them. But then some people prefer the Alesis HR-16B, or that awful SR-16 to the original HR-16, which I think still sounds pretty darn good all things considered. As to the DM5 versus the DM Pro, it all depends on what you really want out of the unit. Do you want a trigger-to-MIDI, a quality sound module, both? There are several differences between the two units, and I'd be willing to bet only one of them will really matter to you based on what you stated you're looking for: the DM5 has 12 trigger inputs. The DM Pro has 16. But those extra 4 trigger inputs come with some baggage. The rest of the differences have to do with audio and, while the DM Pro does sport 20-bit samples and 24-bit effects, the DM5's DAC is 18-bit and the difference in sound quality isn't all that enormous to my ears. YMMV. As to samples, the DM Pro has twice as many sounds at 20-bit compared to the DM5's 18-bit; as to number of voices the DM Pro has 64 voice polyphony, the DM5 has 16; and audio outputs - the DM Pro has 6 assignable unbalanced outs, the DM5 has 4. Does audio matter to you? The other big difference between the two is the programmable samples you can play from the card of the DM Pro, a feature not available on the DM5. But I wouldn't get too jazzed about that, either. The DM Pro requires a PCMCIA card and even 8Mb cards aren't cheap. It plays exactly what's on the card; it doesn't load them into the unit and allow you to layer four voices like the DM Pro's factory patches can. That means you have to create a finished sample and store it on the card. For pity's sake, why bother? Use the DM Pro to fire off a soft sampler like you're wanting to do and be done with it. With all the quality drum sample sets available I'd rather shoot my toes off one at a time than have to create individual samples to fit on an 8Mb card. All that being said, there's a couple of other reasons I'd stick with the DM5, aside from it being $100 to $150 cheaper. The DM5 is still in production; the DM Pro was discontinued. The DM PRO had a software upgrade last year. Most probably you'd want one with version 2.0; it fixed a few glitches in both audio and triggering, but unfortunately, broke the cymbal choke feature of version 1.x. That was helpful. If the unit doesn't already have the upgrade, it'll cost you $50 plus shipping from Alesis for the two EPROMS. Changing them out is a matter of five screws and careful handling of the EPROMS. Also, the DM PRO runs hotter than either the DM4 or the DM5. This caused many units to heat the circuit boards and expose a really annoying habit of some of the solder joints to go bad. Unfortunately these tend to be around the EPROM sockets. One of the EPROMS is the one that handles triggering functions. ("Trig BIST failure" is an annoying message to read on the LCD display, which also has a habit of dimming for no good reason.) If you're handy with a soldering iron and don't mind pulling the thing apart, you can fix it yourself. Otherwise, plan on a $150 trip to Alesis. Now, I happen to really like my DM Pro. I've fixed the above issues with mine and if it craps out on me, I'll likely replace it with a used one. But for straight, mostly worry free triggering, for the price of a used unit just stick with the DM5. My DM5 has never once glitched on me. Ever. Again, YMMV. John LeBlanc Houston, TX |
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#16
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John,
Do you happen to have some literature on how to do the choke mod on the 2.0 alesis. I decided to buy a DM pro on ebay and I just got the 1.x version because they were running cheaper and thought that I could just replace the eprom and no big deal. Plus, I could just use it the way it was for awhile. I emailed one of the people on ebay about the 2.0 upgrade and this is what Ruth Fischler from advancedmusical replied... "2.0 is more than an eprom change. It also involves a hardware mod called the cymbal choke mod. It takes a skilled technician around an hour and 1/2 to perform the hardware mods." Would some one know how to do this? Thanks. |
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#17
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"blisspikle" wrote in message ups.com... John, Do you happen to have some literature on how to do the choke mod on the 2.0 alesis. I decided to buy a DM pro on ebay and I just got the 1.x version because they were running cheaper and thought that I could just replace the eprom and no big deal. Plus, I could just use it the way it was for awhile. I emailed one of the people on ebay about the 2.0 upgrade and this is what Ruth Fischler from advancedmusical replied... "2.0 is more than an eprom change. It also involves a hardware mod called the cymbal choke mod. It takes a skilled technician around an hour and 1/2 to perform the hardware mods." Would some one know how to do this? Not sure which way you want the mod to go. If memory serves, this has to do with using Hart triggers in a drum kit that was marketed. There was a daughterboard and a few other components that had to be swapped out because of the way the Hart triggers worked. $50 and shipping gets you the 2.0 EPROM upgrade kit. Pop the old ones out, pop the new ones in, and reset the unit. Relatively painless, depending upon how well you weild a screwdriver. As to the choke issue: one of the things version 2.0 does (besides fix a lot of iritating, inconsistent triggering issues) is force TRS input 7/8 to be chokable -- input 8 chokes input 7. This didn't make everyone happy, though. Version 1.x allowed you to easily configure 7/8 as two separate triggers. You could also configure the software to use the Aux to choke an input trigger. I guess someone figured 7/8 needed to be this way, and that's the way the trigger EPROM was upgraded. If you've already gone through the manuals, I think you'd find a lot of benefit from joining the DMPro group at Yahoo! Groups. There's several years of messages filled with lots of valuable advice. Not a terribly busy group, but it's the archives you want to read through first. Give it a shot if you like: http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/dmpro Also, you can always call Alesis tech support. It's been my experience over the last few years that they are perfectly happy to help you through things over the phone. This unit's been around the block enough times they have an adequate knowledge base on which to pull. I've had nothing but excellent customer service from them. Finally, if you still get stumped, send me a note and I'm happy to help if I can. John LeBlanc Houston, TX |
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