I've been following the edifying discussions on the new portable
2-track recorders on the market - the Sound Devices, the Edirol etc,
because I've been looking for the same thing:
- must sound decent enough for location recording when I don't have
the space/energy to carry around a whole bunch of rack gear
- must have 2 tracks
- must have 2 mic pre amps with phantom power
- must be reliable
- must have the ability to run on batteries

So, after going back and forward, I've started to wonder why I don't
just buy a Nagra IV-S. My impression is:
- that they sound good enough
- they are reliable
- the mic preamps are competent enough for low level music releases
- they sell for less than the Sound Devices 2-track unit
- their resale value is likely to be better than a digital device,
though the portable DAT's maintained more value than most digital
devices
- they're kind of cooler-looking

But, I must admit, I don't have any experience of analog tape. I
started with DA-88's. Am I simply missing some obvious points? The
running time is something of a problem. Is there a lot of complicated
maintenance to be done on these decks that I don't know about (I am
reasonably, though not very, competent mechanically)? Can you still get
tape for them?

Is there something that I've missed that more experienced people know
about that? I feel that I must have, because Mike Rivers is looking for
a digital device, and he obviously knows a lot more about tape machines
than I do.

wrote in message
ups.com...
...Can you still get
tape for them?

Most of the film production mixers I know stopped using their Nagras because
they felt that tape of sufficient quality was no longer being manufactured.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com

Why shouldn't I buy a Nagra?

They're overpriced and underperforming

Go with sound devices...a more appropriate group for this type of question
is rec.arts.movies.production.sound

Good luck!

--

Jonny Durango

"Patrick was a saint. I ain't."

http://www.jdurango.com



wrote in message
ups.com...
I've been following the edifying discussions on the new portable
2-track recorders on the market - the Sound Devices, the Edirol etc,
because I've been looking for the same thing:
- must sound decent enough for location recording when I don't have
the space/energy to carry around a whole bunch of rack gear
- must have 2 tracks
- must have 2 mic pre amps with phantom power
- must be reliable
- must have the ability to run on batteries

So, after going back and forward, I've started to wonder why I don't
just buy a Nagra IV-S. My impression is:
- that they sound good enough
- they are reliable
- the mic preamps are competent enough for low level music releases
- they sell for less than the Sound Devices 2-track unit
- their resale value is likely to be better than a digital device,
though the portable DAT's maintained more value than most digital
devices
- they're kind of cooler-looking

But, I must admit, I don't have any experience of analog tape. I
started with DA-88's. Am I simply missing some obvious points? The
running time is something of a problem. Is there a lot of complicated
maintenance to be done on these decks that I don't know about (I am
reasonably, though not very, competent mechanically)? Can you still get
tape for them?

Is there something that I've missed that more experienced people know
about that? I feel that I must have, because Mike Rivers is looking for
a digital device, and he obviously knows a lot more about tape machines
than I do.

In article . com writes:

I've been following the edifying discussions on the new portable
2-track recorders on the market - the Sound Devices, the Edirol etc,
because I've been looking for the same thing:

So, after going back and forward, I've started to wonder why I don't
just buy a Nagra IV-S. My impression is:
- that they sound good enough
- they are reliable
- the mic preamps are competent enough for low level music releases
- they sell for less than the Sound Devices 2-track unit
- their resale value is likely to be better than a digital device,
though the portable DAT's maintained more value than most digital
devices
- they're kind of cooler-looking

But, I must admit, I don't have any experience of analog tape.

How sad! Kids these days! and all that.

Is there a lot of complicated
maintenance to be done on these decks that I don't know about (I am
reasonably, though not very, competent mechanically)? Can you still get
tape for them?

A IV-S can be set up fine to work with Quantegy 456 tape, which will
continue to be available in some form or another soon, and for a
while. At the moment, there's a "gas crisis" so this isn't a good time
to inquire about tape.

As far as maintenance, there are some routine adjustments that should
be made periodically. You'll need an alignment tape, an oscillator,
and an audio voltmeter - total cost will be $100 to $500 depending on
what you get. There's a special tool for adjusting head alignment
that's practically unobtainable. There are some tricky adjustments
that don't need to be made very often which need to be done by someone
who knows how.

Nagras are pretty rugged, but there are surely a lot of them that have
been beat to **** and laid dormant for many years that are appearing
on eBay. Your best bet is to buy one from someone who specializes in
Nagra repair so you'll know you're getting one in good shape that
isn't going to need an expensive trip to the shop once you discover
that it isn't working as well as it should. I'd suggest Dan Dugan
Sound on the west coast (Bay area) and Vark Audio on the east coast
(DC area).

Oh, and I'm looking for something that's smaller and more portable
than a Nagra. It's portable, sure, but still a shoulderload.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

-- /
wrote in message
ups.com...
- the mic preamps are competent enough for low level music releases

So here's a question for those who know: If I was to buy a mic preamp, what
preamp on the market is the same value as the Nagra. ( like my IV-L) .

I wonder if I at sometime should go for a great preamp or am I doing just
fine (for voice and classical guitar)

I have a Aphex 107 and I prefer the Nagra .


- they're kind of cooler-looking
**** yea!


--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/

Bob Olhsson wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
...Can you still get
tape for them?

Most of the film production mixers I know stopped using their Nagras because
they felt that tape of sufficient quality was no longer being manufactured.

Sadly this is the case. The Nagra really does require tape with very
accurate slitting, and the currently-available Quantegy tape, even the 408
and 480 types, just don't have good enough slitting.

Look for this to be changing some time in the next six months, though.
I think we're going to be seeing some interesting tape products hitting
the market soon, some of which have been in development for quite a while.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Bob Olhsson" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
ups.com...
...Can you still get
tape for them?

Most of the film production mixers I know stopped using their Nagras
because
they felt that tape of sufficient quality was no longer being
manufactured.


I sold my two Nagras in 1994, ended up with a PD-2 and a couple of PD-4's
and after 10 years of 124 minute loads, I couldn't imagine going back to
changing a reel of tape every 12 - 14 minutes. Even though we had 15 minute
loads, it was verboten for sound to roll out during a take so you had to
change early. Sound mixers actually had to yell "sound reloads" out loud
while the AD chomped at the bit watching you change rolls!

Charles Tomaras wrote:

I sold my two Nagras in 1994, ended up with a PD-2 and a couple of PD-4's
and after 10 years of 124 minute loads, I couldn't imagine going back to
changing a reel of tape every 12 - 14 minutes. Even though we had 15 minute
loads, it was verboten for sound to roll out during a take so you had to
change early. Sound mixers actually had to yell "sound reloads" out loud
while the AD chomped at the bit watching you change rolls!

If they're running 400-foot mags, you spend as much time waiting for them
as they do for you, though...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Charles Tomaras wrote:

I sold my two Nagras in 1994, ended up with a PD-2 and a couple of PD-4's
and after 10 years of 124 minute loads, I couldn't imagine going back to
changing a reel of tape every 12 - 14 minutes. Even though we had 15
minute
loads, it was verboten for sound to roll out during a take so you had to
change early. Sound mixers actually had to yell "sound reloads" out loud
while the AD chomped at the bit watching you change rolls!

If they're running 400-foot mags, you spend as much time waiting for them
as they do for you, though...

yes, but for some reason it's OK for the camera department to roll out or to
lose a battery during a take...not so for sound!

Subject: Why shouldn't I buy a Nagra?
From: "Charles Tomaras"
Date: 2/4/05 2:34 AM Mountain Standard Time
Message-id:


"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Charles Tomaras wrote:

I sold my two Nagras in 1994, ended up with a PD-2 and a couple of PD-4's
and after 10 years of 124 minute loads, I couldn't imagine going back to
changing a reel of tape every 12 - 14 minutes. Even though we had 15
minute
loads, it was verboten for sound to roll out during a take so you had to
change early. Sound mixers actually had to yell "sound reloads" out loud
while the AD chomped at the bit watching you change rolls!

If they're running 400-foot mags, you spend as much time waiting for them
as they do for you, though...

yes, but for some reason it's OK for the camera department to roll out or to
lose a battery during a take...not so for sound!




That's because sound is more important than picture.

They can always use some pretty scene to cut to when the picture is lost, but
without sound, they are screwed.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

Nagra reloads: we pre-threaded pair of reels, and then were able to
reload just as fast as the camera dept., especially if they had to
shoot a headslate and a Macbeth.
Most Nagra recording I did was @ 15 ips, so I burned a lot of tape.

Why we stopped using Nagras: most film recordists stopped using Nagras
long before the tape quality became an issue.
The reason was client request/demand that we change to the DAT format,
followed by a period (still going) in which they don't even ask what
you are recording on--they just assume it is a DAT unless you negotiate
otherwise. A few recordists who work on top-level features and TV
series were able to negotiate the continued delivery of 1/4" tape, but
with the current issues in tape quality even they are moving on to
hard-disk based systems and delivering on DVD-RAM.

Should you get/use a Nagra: yes, if you like the sound, don't mind the
weight, understand the maintenance liability and will find someone to
do this for you if you don't want to do it yourself, and you find a
source of tape of adequate quality.
The upside is that your properly recorded Nagra tapes might be around
much longer than anything digital being recorded today.

Philip Perkins CAS

In article . com,
wrote:

Nagra reloads: we pre-threaded pair of reels, and then were able to
reload just as fast as the camera dept., especially if they had to
shoot a headslate and a Macbeth.

I have to ask.

What's a Macbeth (in this context!)?

Jeff C.

--
Anti-Spam email address in effect.
My real email should be pretty obvious to an actual human being.

What's a Macbeth (in this context!)?


Color reference chart for telecine.

Philip Perkins CAS