http://www.engin.brown.edu/courses/e...MENT-print.pdf

starting with the foil in the lower left hand corner of page 11 that reads:

Why CD?
Compact disk process around since the 1950's.
- market ready for innovation
- alliance of key industrial leaders
- superior product


This is the generally-accepted factual story, not the self-pitying
vinylphile conspiracy theory.

Corrected title!

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

http://www.engin.brown.edu/courses/e...MENT-print.pdf starting with the foil in the lower left hand corner of page 11 that reads: Why CD? Compact disk process around since the 1950's. - market ready for innovation - alliance of key industrial leaders - superior product This is the generally-accepted factual story, not the self-pityingvinylphile conspiracy theory.

Corrected formatting!

Please see:

http://www.engin.brown.edu/courses/e...MENT-print.pdf
starting with the foil in the lower left hand corner of page 11 that reads:

Why CD?
Compact disk process around since the 1950's.
- market ready for innovation
- alliance of key industrial leaders
- superior product


This is the generally-accepted factual story, not the self-pitying
vinylphile conspiracy theory.

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

Corrected formatting!

Please see:

http://www.engin.brown.edu/courses/e...rawford-NEW-PR
ODUCT-DEVELOPMENT-print.pdf

This doc also cites Ex-Lax and Callaway golf clubs.

starting with the foil in the lower left hand corner of page 11 that reads:

Why CD?
Compact disk process around since the 1950's.
- market ready for innovation
- alliance of key industrial leaders
- superior product


This is the generally-accepted factual story, not the self-pitying
vinylphile conspiracy theory.

The point I argued was the importance of bullet point #2 "alliance of
key industrial leaders" in removing the competing medium from the
marketplace.

Your original point was that lps disappeared because consumers abandoned
lps as soon as they knew about the technical superiority of cd. Not so
simple as that.

Stephen

"MINe 109" wrote in message


In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

http://www.engin.brown.edu/courses/e...rawford-NEW-PR
ODUCT-DEVELOPMENT-print.pdf

This doc also cites Ex-Lax and Callaway golf clubs.

This is a problem?

Guess what Stephen, this is part of a general discussion of new product
development. Sue Brown University's Engineering department, cheapskate fools
that they are ;-), for thinking that the sun doesn't rise and set on just
audio.

starting with the foil in the lower left hand corner of page 11 that
reads:

Why CD?
Compact disk process around since the 1950's.
- market ready for innovation
- alliance of key industrial leaders
- superior product

This is the generally-accepted factual story, not the self-pitying
vinylphile conspiracy theory.

The point I argued was the importance of bullet point #2 "alliance of
key industrial leaders" in removing the competing medium from the
marketplace.

The point you seem to have missed Stephen is that the CD was a sucessful
inovation in the judgement of an esteemed member of Brown University's
Engineering department (and most of the thinking, perceiving world) because:

(1) The market ready for innovation. IOW, they knew that the LP was a
practical and technological dead end. The world was waiting for something
without the intractable flaws of vinyl which are well-known and were
well-known before the CD hit the market. People had long known that we could
do better than the LP, and also that they despirately needed to do better.

The only question remaining before the CD was such a stunning artistic,
technical and commerical success; was *how* we were going to do better. We
had already had false starts with open reel analog tape and various kinds of
cassettes, terminating with the Elcassette. Note that analog tape for audio
production is now out of production, worldwide.

(2) Alliance of key industrial leaders. IOW Sony and Philips were big
enough together, to overcome the market's inertia (except for that of a tiny
noisy minority who are still flogging the now-stinking dead horse identified
in point 1, more than 20 years later).

(3) CD was and is a technically superior product to the LP.

Just because there was an alliance to promote the CD doesn't prove or even
suggest that there was a conspiracy to pull the LP from the marketplace in
the US before it was commercially and technically justified.

Your original point was that lps disappeared because consumers
abandoned lps as soon as they knew about the technical superiority of
cd.

More or less. Besides sounding better, CDs are simply a more practical
product than LPs. It's more producable, more merchantahle, and more usable
in the hands of the consumer. LPs never achieved the producability and
reproducability of the CD, and there's really no way they could ever do so.
CD burners can produce fine-sounding copies and origionals in a few minutes
using inexpensive hardware and media that costs literally pennies a piece
with minimal skill requirements.

I think the cheapest new LP cutting lathe runs no faster than real time,
still costs $thousands and requires a lot of skill to get even barely
acceptable results.

BTW Stephen can you even find a public retail source of blank lacquer disks
for cutting lps with a published unit price?

Not so simple as that.

It never is, but the idea that there was a conspiracy to pull the LP from
the marketplace in the US before it was commercially and technically
justified is still looking for factual support. That doesn't seem to keep it
from being a cherished belief of many vinyl bigots. It's just another one of
their illusions, like superior sound I guess.

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 07:18:23 -0500, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:

Corrected formatting!

Well, maybe after about 10 tries, Arnold is finally going to stumble
upon a post that he's happy with.

Please see:

http://www.engin.brown.edu/courses/e...MENT-print.pdf
starting with the foil in the lower left hand corner of page 11 that reads:

Why CD?
Compact disk process around since the 1950's.
- market ready for innovation
- alliance of key industrial leaders
- superior product


This is the generally-accepted factual story, not the self-pitying
vinylphile conspiracy theory.

Obviously we can discount this whole paper since it talks about the
alliance between van der Klugt and Morita and Arnold has already shot
down that theory. Therefore, according to Kroologic, this whole thing
must be suspect and can't be trusted.

Actually, I think Arnold was attracted by the 5th grade level cartoons
and Silly Putty.

Boy, I guess Brown is trying to attract middle-schoolers. They sure
reeled Arnold in, since he has the emotional age of about 12

Arny Krueger wrote:

http://www.engin.brown.edu/courses/e...MENT-print.pdf

starting with the foil in the lower left hand corner of page 11 that
reads:

Why CD?
Compact disk process around since the 1950's.
- market ready for innovation
- alliance of key industrial leaders
- superior product


This is the generally-accepted factual story, not the self-pitying
vinylphile conspiracy theory.


I think that what is now lost in the mists of time and nostalgia is
that "in the day",
LPs were regarded as more or less a "necessary evil" with well known
weaknesses (lack of dynamic range, fragility, sample-to-sample
variability, not user-friendly, etc.) Once the price of CDs and CD
players came down, users abandoned the LP in droves.

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"MINe 109" wrote in message


In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

http://www.engin.brown.edu/courses/e...crawford-NEW-P
R
ODUCT-DEVELOPMENT-print.pdf

This doc also cites Ex-Lax and Callaway golf clubs.

This is a problem?

No, it's 'context'.

Guess what Stephen, this is part of a general discussion of new product
development. Sue Brown University's Engineering department, cheapskate fools
that they are ;-), for thinking that the sun doesn't rise and set on just
audio.

Piling on!

starting with the foil in the lower left hand corner of page 11 that
reads:

Why CD?
Compact disk process around since the 1950's.
- market ready for innovation
- alliance of key industrial leaders
- superior product

This is the generally-accepted factual story, not the self-pitying
vinylphile conspiracy theory.

The point I argued was the importance of bullet point #2 "alliance of
key industrial leaders" in removing the competing medium from the
marketplace.

The point you seem to have missed Stephen is that the CD was a sucessful
inovation in the judgement of an esteemed member of Brown University's
Engineering department (and most of the thinking, perceiving world) because:

We already know EEs tend to like cd for the pretty numbers. Heck, I like
cd done right.

(1) The market ready for innovation. IOW, they knew that the LP was a
practical and technological dead end. The world was waiting for something
without the intractable flaws of vinyl which are well-known and were
well-known before the CD hit the market. People had long known that we could
do better than the LP, and also that they despirately needed to do better.

Sigh. Putting words in the mouth of a pdf...

Needed to do better, just like innovation drives automobile sales. Well,
with an exception for frame on body SUVs.

The only question remaining before the CD was such a stunning artistic,
technical and commerical success; was *how* we were going to do better. We
had already had false starts with open reel analog tape and various kinds of
cassettes, terminating with the Elcassette. Note that analog tape for audio
production is now out of production, worldwide.

Temporarily.

(2) Alliance of key industrial leaders. IOW Sony and Philips were big
enough together, to overcome the market's inertia (except for that of a tiny
noisy minority who are still flogging the now-stinking dead horse identified
in point 1, more than 20 years later).

Yes, and sped things along by removing lp from the market when there was
still some demand for it.

(3) CD was and is a technically superior product to the LP.

Just because there was an alliance to promote the CD doesn't prove or even
suggest that there was a conspiracy to pull the LP from the marketplace in
the US before it was commercially and technically justified.

I would call it an "agreement," not a "conspiracy." And there's no
"technical justification" in the marketplace.

Your original point was that lps disappeared because consumers
abandoned lps as soon as they knew about the technical superiority of
cd.

More or less. Besides sounding better, CDs are simply a more practical
product than LPs. It's more producable, more merchantahle, and more usable
in the hands of the consumer. LPs never achieved the producability and
reproducability of the CD, and there's really no way they could ever do so.
CD burners can produce fine-sounding copies and origionals in a few minutes
using inexpensive hardware and media that costs literally pennies a piece
with minimal skill requirements.

That's nice, but doesn't support your premise in any way. In fact, for
the sake of argument, let's pretend cd is better in every imaginable
way. That still doesn't change my position, which is entirely about
marketing.

I think the cheapest new LP cutting lathe runs no faster than real time,
still costs $thousands and requires a lot of skill to get even barely
acceptable results.

BTW Stephen can you even find a public retail source of blank lacquer disks
for cutting lps with a published unit price?

What an odd request. If I wanted to have my own lps, I'd use a pressing
facility. Wouldn't lacquers be a wholesale item?

Not so simple as that.

It never is, but the idea that there was a conspiracy to pull the LP from
the marketplace in the US before it was commercially and technically
justified is still looking for factual support. That doesn't seem to keep it
from being a cherished belief of many vinyl bigots. It's just another one of
their illusions, like superior sound I guess.

Take "technically justified" out of there. You argued that lps
disappeared so quickly because of cd superiority. Maybe you could
produce a magic curve just precipitous enough to confirm superiority,
but not so steep as to show the market was manipulated.

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 06:00:36 -0500, Arny Krueger wrote:

http://www.engin.brown.edu/courses/e...MENT-print.pdf

starting with the foil in the lower left hand corner of page 11 that
reads:

Why CD?
Compact disk process around since the 1950's. - market ready for
innovation
- alliance of key industrial leaders
- superior product


This is the generally-accepted factual story, not the self-pitying
vinylphile conspiracy theory.


Nope, its the generally-accepted factual story about the marketing view of
the introduction of the CD. Note that this has *nothing* to do with audio
quality in real-life situations.

The CD produces very good and consistant quality audio. That is a fact.
Whether that audio is better *in all respects* than that obtained from a
vinyl LP is the argued point!

The CD suffers from two major problems - it has a predictable, finite
limit to the audio quality which cannot be exceeded (you can't recreate
data that isn't there - just make a guess at what it may have been) and it
cannot be played on simple hardware. Vinyl starts off with apparently
lower audio quality but this is generally improved as the reproducing
hardware is improved. In its most basic form all you need to get
*something* off an LP is to turn it at the right speed and use an
accoustic pickup driving a diaphragm directly. The CD can *never* be
played on such simple equipment. For this reason alone I would far rather
entrust music archives to LP rather than CD, even though the LP is
(apparently) more fragile. Will current CDs still be playable on standard
reproducing equipment in 20 years time? What about material that has
only been released on CD? Got an Elcassette player?

--
Mick
(no M$ software on here... :-) )
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Web: http://projectedsound.tk

"Arny Krueger" said:

Corrected formatting!

Please see:

http://www.engin.brown.edu/courses/e...MENT-print.pdf
starting with the foil in the lower left hand corner of page 11 that reads:

Why CD?
Compact disk process around since the 1950's.
- market ready for innovation
- alliance of key industrial leaders
- superior product


This is the generally-accepted factual story, not the self-pitying
vinylphile conspiracy theory.

What do I see here?

"Philips president (Van der Klugt) and Sony CEO (Morita) were
buddies".

And:
"Record Industry reluctant, but creative and powerful marketing
overcame resistance because of strong customer and trade interest"


Earlier, you disnissed my story, based on the same facts.

Thanks for admitting you're the master of the "Debating Trade" , once
again.


BTW: "Compact Disc process around since the 1950s"?
On page 12, it says compact disc timeline starts in 1972.

Care to expand on that?

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
: "Arny Krueger" said:
:
: Corrected formatting!
:
: Please see:
:
:
http://www.engin.brown.edu/courses/e...rd-NEW-PRODUCT
-DEVELOPMENT-print.pdf
: starting with the foil in the lower left hand corner of page 11 that reads:
:
: Why CD?
: Compact disk process around since the 1950's.
: - market ready for innovation
: - alliance of key industrial leaders
: - superior product
:
:
: This is the generally-accepted factual story, not the self-pitying
: vinylphile conspiracy theory.
:
: What do I see here?
:
: "Philips president (Van der Klugt) and Sony CEO (Morita) were
: buddies".
:
: And:
: "Record Industry reluctant, but creative and powerful marketing
: overcame resistance because of strong customer and trade interest"
:
:
: Earlier, you disnissed my story, based on the same facts.
:
: Thanks for admitting you're the master of the "Debating Trade" , once
: again.
:
:
: BTW: "Compact Disc process around since the 1950s"?
: On page 12, it says compact disc timeline starts in 1972.
:
: Care to expand on that?
:
: --
: Sander de Waal
: " SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Well, you know of course of batteries being around in Babylonian times ?
Not hing is impossible, note history
Rudy

"Ruud Broens" said:

: BTW: "Compact Disc process around since the 1950s"?
: On page 12, it says compact disc timeline starts in 1972.

: Care to expand on that?

Well, you know of course of batteries being around in Babylonian times ?
Not hing is impossible, note history

Of course, they ran on urine, if I recall correctly.

Something for a certain inhabitant of the middle region of the US, a
feces-powered Villager? ;-)

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

"Ruud Broens" wrote in message
...
:
: "Sander deWaal" wrote in message
: ...
: : "Arny Krueger" said:
: :
: : Corrected formatting!
: :
: : Please see:
: :
: :
:
http://www.engin.brown.edu/courses/e...rd-NEW-PRODUCT
: -DEVELOPMENT-print.pdf
: : starting with the foil in the lower left hand corner of page 11 that reads:
: :
: : Why CD?
: : Compact disk process around since the 1950's.
: : - market ready for innovation
: : - alliance of key industrial leaders
: : - superior product
: :
: :
: : This is the generally-accepted factual story, not the self-pitying
: : vinylphile conspiracy theory.
: :
: : What do I see here?
: :
: : "Philips president (Van der Klugt) and Sony CEO (Morita) were
: : buddies".
: :
: : And:
: : "Record Industry reluctant, but creative and powerful marketing
: : overcame resistance because of strong customer and trade interest"
: :
: :
: : Earlier, you disnissed my story, based on the same facts.
: :
: : Thanks for admitting you're the master of the "Debating Trade" , once
: : again.
: :
: :
: : BTW: "Compact Disc process around since the 1950s"?
: : On page 12, it says compact disc timeline starts in 1972.
: :
: : Care to expand on that?
: :
: : --
: : Sander de Waal
: : " SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "
:
: Well, you know of course of batteries being around in Babylonian times ?
: Not hing is impossible, note history
: Rudy
:
The fifties were an amazing episode , von Neumann, Turing, Minsky, IBM, Eniac..
but thoughts about a Compact Disc arising in those days : as plausible
as Fleming coming up with communication satellites just after the triode
:-)
Rudy

"Ruud Broens" said:

The fifties were an amazing episode , von Neumann, Turing, Minsky, IBM, Eniac..
but thoughts about a Compact Disc arising in those days : as plausible
as Fleming coming up with communication satellites just after the triode
:-)
Rudy

Careful there, rookie.

Hugo Gernsback predicted them in........1925!

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
: "Ruud Broens" said:
:
: : BTW: "Compact Disc process around since the 1950s"?
: : On page 12, it says compact disc timeline starts in 1972.
:
: : Care to expand on that?
:
: Well, you know of course of batteries being around in Babylonian times ?
: Not hing is impossible, note history
:
: Of course, they ran on urine, if I recall correctly.
:
: Something for a certain inhabitant of the middle region of the US, a
: feces-powered Villager? ;-)
:
: --
: Sander de Waal
: " SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

we all know that mr. de waal is recycling history or other thingies
for the benefit, of his own, selflishh intrests, as noted.
most RAO readers do not take note of such fabrications, note.
blue note,
Rudy

"Ruud Broens" said:

no harpsichoerd,

Dat klinkt ook zo beroerd

Was meteen gevloerd

nog nooit zoiets gehoerd

meteen de mond gesnoerd


© @ yer service ;-)

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

"Ruud Broens" said:

we all know that mr. de waal is recycling history or other thingies
for the benefit, of his own, selflishh intrests, as noted.
most RAO readers do not take note of such fabrications, note.
blue note,
Rudy

Thanks Rodney for admiotting you, don't know an ohm from a, volt if
its like, it hit you in the back on teh way out in on, LoT;"S! ;-)

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
: "Ruud Broens" said:
:
: The fifties were an amazing episode , von Neumann, Turing, Minsky, IBM,
Eniac..
: but thoughts about a Compact Disc arising in those days : as plausible
: as Fleming coming up with communication satellites just after the
triode
: :-)
: Rudy
:
: Careful there, rookie.
:
: Hugo Gernsback predicted them in........1925!
:
: --
: Sander de Waal
: " SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Google gernsback + cd : sure, nearly a thousand hits. what does this proof,
mr dewhaal ? as if, it is actually Gernsback *on* cd, instead of on-cd,
if you get my driift,
LOL,
Rudy

"Ruud Broens" said:


"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
.. .
: "Ruud Broens" said:
:
: The fifties were an amazing episode , von Neumann, Turing, Minsky, IBM,
Eniac..
: but thoughts about a Compact Disc arising in those days : as plausible
: as Fleming coming up with communication satellites just after the
triode
: :-)
: Rudy
:
: Careful there, rookie.
:
: Hugo Gernsback predicted them in........1925!
:
: --
: Sander de Waal
: " SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Google gernsback + cd : sure, nearly a thousand hits. what does this proof,
mr dewhaal ? as if, it is actually Gernsback *on* cd, instead of on-cd,
if you get my driift,
LOL,

Instead of festering on "usinet" ( google *that* one if you dare!),
you'd do good to read Ralph 124C 41+.

After you're done, you may come back here and offer your humble
apologies, as well as acknowledge that I was right, *again* .

TIA.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
: "Ruud Broens" said:
:
: we all know that mr. de waal is recycling history or other thingies
: for the benefit, of his own, selflishh intrests, as noted.
: most RAO readers do not take note of such fabrications, note.
: blue note,
: Rudy
:
: Thanks Rodney for admiotting you, don't know an ohm from a, volt if
: its like, it hit you in the back on teh way out in on, LoT;"S! ;-)
:
: --
: Sander de Waal
: " SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Some mothers do'ave them

"Ruud Broens" said:


: we all know that mr. de waal is recycling history or other thingies
: for the benefit, of his own, selflishh intrests, as noted.
: most RAO readers do not take note of such fabrications, note.
: blue note,
: Rudy

: Thanks Rodney for admiotting you, don't know an ohm from a, volt if
: its like, it hit you in the back on teh way out in on, LoT;"S! ;-)


Some mothers do'ave them

At least she loves me*, note.


* I think.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
: "Ruud Broens" said:
:
:
: "Sander deWaal" wrote in message
: .. .
: : "Ruud Broens" said:
: :
: : The fifties were an amazing episode , von Neumann, Turing, Minsky, IBM,
: Eniac..
: : but thoughts about a Compact Disc arising in those days : as
plausible
: : as Fleming coming up with communication satellites just after the
: triode
: : :-)
: : Rudy
: :
: : Careful there, rookie.
: :
: : Hugo Gernsback predicted them in........1925!
: :
: : --
: : Sander de Waal
: : " SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "
:
: Google gernsback + cd : sure, nearly a thousand hits. what does this proof,
: mr dewhaal ? as if, it is actually Gernsback *on* cd, instead of on-cd,
: if you get my driift,
: LOL,
:
: Instead of festering on "usinet" ( google *that* one if you dare!),
: you'd do good to read Ralph 124C 41+.
:
: After you're done, you may come back here and offer your humble
: apologies, as well as acknowledge that I was right, *again* .
:
: TIA.
:
: --
: Sander de Waal
: " SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

G.
....invented the Language Rectifier ...
****. born to late,
i'm afraid,
Rudy

"Ruud Broens" said:

****. born to late,

Born to loathe?
Born to lathe?
Born to hate?
Born to skate?
Born to wait?
Born to aid?
Born to mate?
Born 2nd rate?

Bon Ton Mate!

i'm afraid,

You'd better be!

Rudy

Sandmaster, Of All Languages :-)

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Sander deWaal wrote:


"Ruud Broens" said:

: BTW: "Compact Disc process around since the 1950s"?
: On page 12, it says compact disc timeline starts in 1972.

: Care to expand on that?

Well, you know of course of batteries being around in Babylonian times ?
Not hing is impossible, note history

Of course, they ran on urine, if I recall correctly.

Something for a certain inhabitant of the middle region of the US, a
feces-powered Villager? ;-)

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "


What makes you think that any of his "fuel" is left over after he posts on RAO?



Bruce J. Richman

Sander deWaal wrote:


"Ruud Broens" said:

we all know that mr. de waal is recycling history or other thingies
for the benefit, of his own, selflishh intrests, as noted.
most RAO readers do not take note of such fabrications, note.
blue note,
Rudy

Thanks Rodney for admiotting you, don't know an ohm from a, volt if
its like, it hit you in the back on teh way out in on, LoT;"S! ;-)

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "


Thanks Sanded Walls for revising the herstory on Goggle. That's why it keeps
lying to me and revising history. We've asked and answered your egreeejius
false calims many times. You "Nomads" are all devotional and cycotic.

OLO !!!



Bruce J. Richman

Sander deWaal wrote:



"Ruud Broens" said:

****. born to late,

Born to loathe?
Born to lathe?
Born to hate?
Born to skate?
Born to wait?
Born to aid?
Born to mate?
Born 2nd rate?

Bon Ton Mate!

i'm afraid,

You'd better be!

Rudy

Sandmaster, Of All Languages :-)

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "




Bon Jovi.




Bruce J. Richman

(Bruce J. Richman) said:

Something for a certain inhabitant of the middle region of the US, a
feces-powered Villager? ;-)

What makes you think that any of his "fuel" is left over after he posts on RAO?

Not too modest, there's plenty left.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

(Bruce J. Richman) said:

Bon Jovi.

Not my hair!

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Sander deWaal wrote:


(Bruce J. Richman) said:

Something for a certain inhabitant of the middle region of the US, a
feces-powered Villager? ;-)

What makes you think that any of his "fuel" is left over after he posts on
RAO?

Not too modest, there's plenty left.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "








I realize that in case of temporary shortages, he can always get more shipped
in from France, Southern California, or sockpuppet land.


Bruce J. Richman

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message
...
: (Bruce J. Richman) said:
:
: Bon Jovi.
:
: Not my hair!
:
: --
: Sander de Waal
: " SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

ehh, u lost me, there
eR

wrote in message
oups.com...

Arny Krueger wrote:

http://www.engin.brown.edu/courses/e...MENT-print.pdf

starting with the foil in the lower left hand corner of page 11 that
reads:

Why CD?
Compact disk process around since the 1950's.
- market ready for innovation
- alliance of key industrial leaders
- superior product


This is the generally-accepted factual story, not the self-pitying
vinylphile conspiracy theory.


I think that what is now lost in the mists of time and nostalgia is
that "in the day",
LPs were regarded as more or less a "necessary evil" with well known
weaknesses (lack of dynamic range, fragility, sample-to-sample
variability, not user-friendly, etc.) Once the price of CDs and CD
players came down, users abandoned the LP in droves.


The price of cd's never came down

"mick" wrote in message
news : On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 06:00:36 -0500, Arny Krueger wrote:
: Mick
: (no M$ software on here... :-) ) proof it :-))) Rudy

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" said:

Corrected formatting!

Please see:

http://www.engin.brown.edu/courses/e...MENT-print.pdf
starting with the foil in the lower left hand corner of page 11 that
reads:

Why CD?
Compact disk process around since the 1950's.
- market ready for innovation
- alliance of key industrial leaders
- superior product


This is the generally-accepted factual story, not the self-pitying
vinylphile conspiracy theory.

What do I see here?

"Philips president (Van der Klugt) and Sony CEO (Morita) were
buddies".

And:
"Record Industry reluctant, but creative and powerful marketing
overcame resistance because of strong customer and trade interest"


Earlier, you disnissed my story, based on the same facts.

Wrong, and you know it. You presented different facts which happened to be
wrong. I pointed that out to you Sander, and you've been in a snit ever
since.

Yawn.

Clyde Slick wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Arny Krueger wrote:


http://www.engin.brown.edu/courses/e...MENT-print.pdf

starting with the foil in the lower left hand corner of page 11
that
reads:

Why CD?
Compact disk process around since the 1950's.
- market ready for innovation
- alliance of key industrial leaders
- superior product


This is the generally-accepted factual story, not the self-pitying
vinylphile conspiracy theory.


I think that what is now lost in the mists of time and nostalgia is
that "in the day",
LPs were regarded as more or less a "necessary evil" with well
known
weaknesses (lack of dynamic range, fragility, sample-to-sample
variability, not user-friendly, etc.) Once the price of CDs and CD
players came down, users abandoned the LP in droves.


The price of cd's never came down



What are you babbling about?

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message


The price of cd's never came down

The price of new LPs went up.

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:53:24 +0100, Ruud Broens wrote:


"mick" wrote in message
news : On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 06:00:36 -0500, Arny Krueger wrote: Mick
: (no M$ software on here... :-) ) proof it :-))) Rudy

erm.... well... yeah.....
What do they produce that will run under Suse 9.1?
grin

not easy to prove though... :-)

--
Mick
(no M$ software on here... :-) )
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Web: http://projectedsound.tk

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message


The price of cd's never came down

The price of new LPs went up.


The point isn't the comparison, the point is the lies and manipulations of
the recording industry.
If you want to make comparisons, compare costs and markups when you compare
prices.
At any rate, one of my favorite lp providers is Sundazed, their lp's cost
60% of a cd's cost.

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 05:27:07 -0500, Clyde Slick wrote:


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message


The price of cd's never came down

The price of new LPs went up.


The point isn't the comparison, the point is the lies and manipulations of
the recording industry.
If you want to make comparisons, compare costs and markups when you
compare prices.
At any rate, one of my favorite lp providers is Sundazed, their lp's cost
60% of a cd's cost.

Besides that, the retailers wanted CDs. They had had enough of providing
lots of storage space for LPs, together with the covers that needed
protecting from the grubby-fingered hordes. CDs were just what they needed
- irrespective of sound quality. If they took up less shelf space and
people would buy them then that was enough.

--
Mick
(no M$ software on here... :-) )
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Web: http://projectedsound.tk

In article ,
mick wrote:

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 05:27:07 -0500, Clyde Slick wrote:


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message


The price of cd's never came down

The price of new LPs went up.


The point isn't the comparison, the point is the lies and manipulations of
the recording industry.
If you want to make comparisons, compare costs and markups when you
compare prices.
At any rate, one of my favorite lp providers is Sundazed, their lp's cost
60% of a cd's cost.

Besides that, the retailers wanted CDs. They had had enough of providing
lots of storage space for LPs, together with the covers that needed
protecting from the grubby-fingered hordes. CDs were just what they needed
- irrespective of sound quality. If they took up less shelf space and
people would buy them then that was enough.

The prospect of replacing shelves was not something retailers wanted.
Remember the longbox? Or those security devices jewel-boxes were clamped
into?

And cds don't take up less space on shelves...

Stephen

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message


The price of cd's never came down

The price of new LPs went up.

The point isn't the comparison, the point is the lies and
manipulations of the recording industry.

Which await adequate proof.

If you want to make comparisons, compare costs and markups when you
compare prices. At any rate, one of my favorite lp providers is Sundazed,
their lp's
cost 60% of a cd's cost.

Their home page has a great example of that pricing structure.
http://www.sundazed.com/store/index.html

Spirit - Model Shop Compact Disc: SC 6197 PRICE:: $13.98

Spirit - Model Shop 180 Gram Vinyl: LP 5180 PRICE:: $18.98

$13.98/18.98 = 74%

Sack-math? ;-)