| Home |
| Search |
| Today's Posts |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Hardwood or Ceramic?
I have a home studio with floors covered in carpet. I am building a drum
riser and can either cover it in ceramic/stone (very porous looking, much of the tile is covered in holes, which are filled when grouted) leftover from a house project, or just buy hardwood. Presuming flutter echo isn't an issue with the ceiling and room, would ceramic sound as good or better then hardwood? The usual close mic'ed rock drum sound. Nick |
|
#2
|
|||
|
|||
|
|
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
|
John Hardy wrote:
Whatever you do, please, oh please, do NOT use PERGO or any of its equivalents. I HATE that stuff. Drop a coin or a key on it and it makes a terribly harsh and piercing sound due to the hardness of the surface (I think). Did I say I HATE that stuff? I HATE IT. What would you use John? Any cost efficient ideas? Will Miho NY Music & TV Audio Guy - Fox News "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom |
|
#5
|
|||
|
|||
|
WillStG wrote:
John Hardy wrote: Whatever you do, please, oh please, do NOT use PERGO or any of its equivalents. I HATE that stuff. Drop a coin or a key on it and it makes a terribly harsh and piercing sound due to the hardness of the surface (I think). Did I say I HATE that stuff? I HATE IT. What would you use John? Any cost efficient ideas? That's another weird thing. The cheap rubberwood parquet sheets cost less than Pergo, and they look and sound better. I don't know if they wear as well. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
|
#6
|
|||
|
|||
|
John Hardy wrote:
Whatever you do, please, oh please, do NOT use PERGO or any of its equivalents. I HATE that stuff. Drop a coin or a key on it and it makes a terribly harsh and piercing sound due to the hardness of the surface (I think). Did I say I HATE that stuff? I HATE IT. What would you use John? Any cost efficient ideas? Will Miho NY Music & TV Audio Guy - Fox News "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Just ANYTHING BUT PERGO! Asphalt would be better. It's a good question though - What would give the best sound characteristics and be within budget. I don't like the prefinished wood floors either. They look tacky to me with lots of short pieces. I would rather use 3/4" thick oak or maple or whatever and finish it on site. There are lots of alternatives in hardwoods these days. If that is what you want, a quick reference site might be www.lumberliquidators.com to see some of the stuff that is available. Ceramic tile might be too bright as well. You can always add a rug when needed. Throw in some pillows. Suragite made the point that the drummer may put a rug down anyway. Or the hardwood may get trashed in a hurry with drum spikes and such. It's a small enough area that you could always do it over. One more thing: I hate Pergo. John Hardy The John Hardy Co. www.johnhardyco.com |
|
#7
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:31:35 -0600, John Hardy
wrote: From: "Nick" Date: 1/10/05 1:11 A.M. Eastern Standard Time Message-id: I have a home studio with floors covered in carpet. I am building a drum riser and can either cover it in ceramic/stone (very porous looking, much of the tile is covered in holes, which are filled when grouted) leftover from a house project, or just buy hardwood. Presuming flutter echo isn't an issue with the ceiling and room, would ceramic sound as good or better then hardwood? The usual close mic'ed rock drum sound. For a nice live sound on percussion I'd say the whole room should be hardwood flooring. Whatever you do, please, oh please, do NOT use PERGO or any of its equivalents. I HATE that stuff. Drop a coin or a key on it and it makes a terribly harsh and piercing sound due to the hardness of the surface (I think). Did I say I HATE that stuff? I HATE IT. Have you checked out the new flooring products made from bamboo? Al |
|
#8
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:31:35 -0600, John Hardy
wrote: From: "Nick" Date: 1/10/05 1:11 A.M. Eastern Standard Time Message-id: I have a home studio with floors covered in carpet. I am building a drum riser and can either cover it in ceramic/stone (very porous looking, much of the tile is covered in holes, which are filled when grouted) leftover from a house project, or just buy hardwood. Presuming flutter echo isn't an issue with the ceiling and room, would ceramic sound as good or better then hardwood? The usual close mic'ed rock drum sound. For a nice live sound on percussion I'd say the whole room should be hardwood flooring. Whatever you do, please, oh please, do NOT use PERGO or any of its equivalents. I HATE that stuff. Drop a coin or a key on it and it makes a terribly harsh and piercing sound due to the hardness of the surface (I think). Did I say I HATE that stuff? I HATE IT. Have you checked out the new flooring products made from bamboo? Al I've heard of it, but not seen it. Sounds interesting. My neighbor did some remodeling and almost used it. Lots of possibilities. John Hardy |
|
#9
|
|||
|
|||
|
"John Hardy" wrote in message ... John Hardy wrote: Just ANYTHING BUT PERGO! Asphalt would be better. Would that be wet asphalt, or dry asphalt?  It's a good question though - What would give the best sound characteristics and be within budget. Parquet ain't bad - I've done drums plenty of times on parquet flooring, and you can get that for about a buck per square foot usually. Suragite made the point that the drummer may put a rug down anyway. Or the hardwood may get trashed in a hurry with drum spikes and such. It's a small enough area that you could always do it over. That's another advantage to parquet, too - if you need to refinish/patch a small section, it usually doesn't show as apparently as it would if you had to do the same thing to a nice floor of clear maple, for example. One more thing: I hate Pergo. You can't refinish it, either... it's kinda difficult to sand sawdust & hope for a good outcome at the same time. Neil |
|
#10
|
|||
|
|||
|
"playon" wrote in message ... Have you checked out the new flooring products made from bamboo? VERY expensive - at least the ones I've seen. Found anything for a reasonable price? Say... less than $3 a square foot? It's supposed to be very durable, anyway. Here's a thought - if the giant Pandas are so rare because all they eat is bamboo & all the bamboo is dying out because mankind is encroaching on the Panda's territory, how is it that there's just recently been enough bamboo to harvest for flooring purposes outside of third-world countries? Another thought - bamboo is so low in nutrients that the Panda has to spend almost all it's waking hours eating just to stay alive, and hence mating becomes the last thing on it's mind... shouldn't said animal be allowed to go extinct for being that stupid in the first place? Neil Henderson |
|
#11
|
|||
|
|||
|
On 1/10/05 7:59 PM, in article ,
"Neil Henderson" wrote: Have you checked out the new flooring products made from bamboo? VERY expensive - at least the ones I've seen. Found anything for a reasonable price? Say... less than $3 a square foot? Well, www.Ifloor.com has it from $2.19 to $2.79! It's supposed to be very durable, anyway. Bamboo is harder than maple, so I think it would hold up very well. Also, bamboo is a grass, not a wood. It re-grows to it's full size in about four years, making it a better renewable resource than traditional wood. The other day I saw some cutting boards made from bamboo. Very cool looking with the "boards" running flat, on their sides, and even on end. They were on the pricey side, though. I think the price will come down as more products are made from bamboo, and more people buy them. Allen -- Allen Corneau Mastering Engineer Essential Sound Mastering Houston, TX |
|
#12
|
|||
|
|||
|
Neil Henderson wrote:
"playon" wrote... Have you checked out the new flooring products made from bamboo? VERY expensive - at least the ones I've seen. Found anything for a reasonable price? Say... less than $3 a square foot? It's supposed to be very durable, anyway. My mom-in-law just had a floor done in bamboo in a remodel. The place isn't ready for movin' into yet, so I can't comment on its esthetic appeal or acoustic properties, but firstly, she is a skinflint, so she must have found a deal; secondly, she's no spring chicken so if she can find a deal, so could you; and thirdly, the stuff is so hard it makes rock maple seem like balsa wood. I look forward to tromping over it on the way to one of her amazing meals. g Here's a thought - if the giant Pandas are so rare because all they eat is bamboo & all the bamboo is dying out because mankind is encroaching on the Panda's territory, how is it that there's just recently been enough bamboo to harvest for flooring purposes outside of third-world countries? Bamboo grows in many more places than just where Pandas hang out and up. It'll prove to be a major crop oneday, even in the US. Mark my words. The stuff is far too productive to be ignored. Another thought - bamboo is so low in nutrients that the Panda has to spend almost all it's waking hours eating just to stay alive, and hence mating becomes the last thing on it's mind... shouldn't said animal be allowed to go extinct for being that stupid in the first place? It's probably higher in nutrients than coffee or Krispy Kreme, and there is a least one species that will eat that kind of stuff. As for stupidity, we work all day to get stuff to eat; a panda just eats all day. You do the math. g -- ha |
|
#13
|
|||
|
|||
|
Neil Henderson wrote:
Here's a thought - if the giant Pandas are so rare because all they eat is bamboo & all the bamboo is dying out because mankind is encroaching on the Panda's territory, how is it that there's just recently been enough bamboo to harvest for flooring purposes outside of third-world countries? I don't know, but I sure have enough white bamboo in my backyard for as many pandas as you can send over. It _is_ good to eat, but only if you get the shoots when they first come out, and I am usually too late. Another thought - bamboo is so low in nutrients that the Panda has to spend almost all it's waking hours eating just to stay alive, and hence mating becomes the last thing on it's mind... shouldn't said animal be allowed to go extinct for being that stupid in the first place? Bamboo shoots always had a slight bakelite taste to me. Maybe what happens to pandas is phenolic poisoning of some kind? Hmm... I wonder what pandas taste like... --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
|
#14
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 01:59:52 GMT, "Neil Henderson"
wrote: "playon" wrote in message .. . Have you checked out the new flooring products made from bamboo? VERY expensive - at least the ones I've seen. Found anything for a reasonable price? Say... less than $3 a square foot? It's supposed to be very durable, anyway. There are different thicknesses and grades... but bamboo is farmed and grows like crazy, you'd think if it becomes more popular prices would come down. It's an easy resource to renew compared to growing a tree for 50 or 100 years. Even at $3 a foot, isn't that a whole lot cheaper than say oak or other hardwoods? Here's a thought - if the giant Pandas are so rare because all they eat is bamboo & all the bamboo is dying out because mankind is encroaching on the Panda's territory, how is it that there's just recently been enough bamboo to harvest for flooring purposes outside of third-world countries? See the above. Al |
|
#16
|
|||
|
|||
|
|
|
#17
|
|||
|
|||
|
playon wrote:
(hank alrich) wrote: My mom-in-law just had a floor done in bamboo in a remodel. The place isn't ready for movin' into yet, so I can't comment on its esthetic appeal or acoustic properties, but firstly, she is a skinflint, so she must have found a deal; secondly, she's no spring chicken so if she can find a deal, so could you; and thirdly, the stuff is so hard it makes rock maple seem like balsa wood. I'm wondering if it might be *too* hard & reflective as far as acoustic properties. Now that's an interesting angle, though I'm not well enough informed about the mechanics of air particle interaction at a boundary to make a sensible remark. But I'm led to wonder whether at some degree of surface smoothness the overall acoustic result could depend more upon the rigidity of the surface as determined by that which supports it than on the hardness of the surface itself. Ethan? Anybody? (Being a dumbass guitar player presents limits...) -- ha |
|
#18
|
|||
|
|||
|
"hank alrich" wrote in message
.. . playon wrote: (hank alrich) wrote: My mom-in-law just had a floor done in bamboo in a remodel. The place isn't ready for movin' into yet, so I can't comment on its esthetic appeal or acoustic properties, but firstly, she is a skinflint, so she must have found a deal; secondly, she's no spring chicken so if she can find a deal, so could you; and thirdly, the stuff is so hard it makes rock maple seem like balsa wood. I'm wondering if it might be *too* hard & reflective as far as acoustic properties. Now that's an interesting angle, though I'm not well enough informed about the mechanics of air particle interaction at a boundary to make a sensible remark. Yeah you are... does it sound "better" or "worse" to you than some other surface? That's all you need to know. But I'm led to wonder whether at some degree of surface smoothness the overall acoustic result could depend more upon the rigidity of the surface as determined by that which supports it than on the hardness of the surface itself. My completely subjective guess it that it's a combination of all those things. A maple floor with no finish on concrete with a vapor barrier will sound different than a maple floor with a hard acrylic finish on concrete with a vapor barrier, which will sound different than a maple floor with no finish on 3/4" plywood base, which will sound different than a maple floor with a hard acrylic finish on a 3/4" plywood base. It would be pretty impractical to re-floor the same room four times in order to measure this effect, but my money's on "different". Neil Henderson |
|
#19
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 05:25:54 GMT, "Neil Henderson"
wrote: "hank alrich" wrote in message . .. But I'm led to wonder whether at some degree of surface smoothness the overall acoustic result could depend more upon the rigidity of the surface as determined by that which supports it than on the hardness of the surface itself. My completely subjective guess it that it's a combination of all those things. A maple floor with no finish on concrete with a vapor barrier will sound different than a maple floor with a hard acrylic finish on concrete with a vapor barrier, which will sound different than a maple floor with no finish on 3/4" plywood base, which will sound different than a maple floor with a hard acrylic finish on a 3/4" plywood base. I know From Nothing about floors, and just wanted to comment about how amazing it is that we can hear them so well. Walking across one gives us extra clues, but we hear ceilings really well too. It's a beautiful and mysterious world. Chris Hornbeck "Conscious that we must have sprung from somewhere, we are lured to the riddle of our origins." -Malcolm W. Browne |
|
#21
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 03:00:58 GMT, (hank alrich)
wrote: Bamboo grows in many more places than just where Pandas hang out and up. It'll prove to be a major crop oneday, even in the US. Mark my words. The stuff is far too productive to be ignored. Oh yeah. Before I moved here, at my old micro-farm there was a stand of bamboo about 40 years old. When I first moved there, I could hardly believe the stuff grew around here. The stuff is nearly uncontrollable once it is established (OK, that's almost an exaggeration, because you can mow the shoots as they come up... but they'll keep trying.) Spreads via rhizomes, and ultimately completely takes over all vegetation within its stand. And, it is almost an 'evergreen' in that even though the leaves will somewhat brown-up during the winter, it is not deciduous. The old man who sold me the place told me that, for giggles, he had planted a chunk of root he brought back from (I forget where, in Asia) just to see what would happen. He said that for the first three or four years it just kind of grew a little bit, and didn't spread at all... then, after that, it started to spread like crazy. The stuff makes a wonderful four-season 'screen' after the stand thickens up. Really cuts down the dust clouds from a dirt road, eventually completely blocks visibility and somewhat reduces noise as well. Wish I'd brought some with me when I moved. Thanks for reminding me of one of my big woulda, shoulda, couldas.. ;-) ==================== Tracy Wintermute Rushcreek Ranch ==================== |
|
#23
|
|||
|
|||
|
On 2005-01-10 01:11:59 -0500, "Nick"
said: I have a home studio with floors covered in carpet. I am building a drum riser and can either cover it in ceramic/stone (very porous looking, much of the tile is covered in holes, which are filled when grouted) leftover from a house project, or just buy hardwood. Presuming flutter echo isn't an issue with the ceiling and room, would ceramic sound as good or better then hardwood? The usual close mic'ed rock drum sound. Nick Wow... this discussion has gotten way off topic with no answer for this poor guy. Bottom line - Carpet it. 1) It will make life much easier for the drummers in your life. (think of kick-drum slide etc.) 2) Having a 'live' drum sound is great, but achieve it with the other surfaces in the room. 3) Any sort of hard and flat surface that close to your mics will give you quick initial reflections, even in your close mics. -Tak |
|
#24
|
|||
|
|||
|
I'm wondering if it might be *too* hard & reflective as far as
acoustic properties. BRBR I doubt it. We have a stained concrete floor in one of our studios and it sounds great. Joe Egan EMP Colchester, VT www.eganmedia.com |
|
#25
|
|||
|
|||
|
"EganMedia" wrote in message
... I'm wondering if it might be *too* hard & reflective as far as acoustic properties. BRBR I doubt it. We have a stained concrete floor in one of our studios and it sounds great. What kind of stain? What color? Oops. Lost my mind there for a moment. Steve King |
|
#26
|
|||
|
|||
|
"Steve King" wrote in message
"EganMedia" wrote in message ... I'm wondering if it might be *too* hard & reflective as far as acoustic properties. BRBR I doubt it. We have a stained concrete floor in one of our studios and it sounds great. What kind of stain? What color? Oops. Lost my mind there for a moment. I heard about stained concrete about a month ago and searched google. I found some very cool-looking stuff. |
|
#27
|
|||
|
|||
|
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Steve King" wrote in message "EganMedia" wrote in message ... I'm wondering if it might be *too* hard & reflective as far as acoustic properties. BRBR I doubt it. We have a stained concrete floor in one of our studios and it sounds great. What kind of stain? What color? Oops. Lost my mind there for a moment. I heard about stained concrete about a month ago and searched google. I found some very cool-looking stuff. Mine has been stained for years. Mostly with motor oil. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
|
#28
|
|||
|
|||
|
What kind of stain? What color? Oops. Lost my mind there for a
moment. I heard about stained concrete about a month ago and searched google. I found some very cool-looking stuff. BRBR The stuff we used is made by Kemiko. It's tan/brown with a bit of red. I think they call it Cola. It's not as dark as I had originally thought it would be, but I think I like it better as it turned out. Check out Fran Manzella's studio design portfolio (www.fmdesign.com) for shots of my floor as well as Trillium Lane's, Blue Jay's and some others. Joe Egan EMP Colchester, VT www.eganmedia.com |
|
#29
|
|||
|
|||
|
Here's a thought - if the giant Pandas are so rare because all they eat is
bamboo & all the bamboo is dying out because mankind is encroaching on the Panda's territory, how is it that there's just recently been enough bamboo to harvest for flooring purposes outside of third-world countries? BRBR Bamboo grows like a weed. There is absolutely no danger of it ever becoming endangered or rare. It does not require a tropical climate. A large stand of it is growing on a north-facing (i.e. non-sunny) hillside just a few hundred feet from me here in Los Angeles. No worries, there is an endless supply available. Scott Fraser |
|
#30
|
|||
|
|||
|
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 10:44:20 -0600, "Steve King"
wrote: "EganMedia" wrote in message ... I'm wondering if it might be *too* hard & reflective as far as acoustic properties. BRBR I doubt it. We have a stained concrete floor in one of our studios and it sounds great. What kind of stain? What color? Oops. Lost my mind there for a moment. More importantly, was it stained by anyone famous? Al |
| Reply |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Forum | |||
| hardwood Vs: concrete in small room? | Pro Audio | |||
| Wood Technology Solid Hardwood Speaker Stands | Marketplace | |||
| DIY Ceramic circuit boards? | Tech | |||
| Ceramic Tile Studio Floor | Pro Audio | |||
| F.S. ACCUTON CERAMIC MIDS & TWEETERS | Marketplace | |||
Linear Mode
