We've been doing enough narration this year that we're getting the itch
to get a pre-mic, maybe pre/comp/mic combo that are really geared
towards that, instead of using the pres and mics meant for music
recording. The pres we've put into service have been HHB Radius 30,
TLA pre-comp, and RNP. Mics have been variously an 87, KSM32 and 414.
Results have always been good, but it's time to end the compromise.


Looking for more detail, basically, and a better noise floor. The
sonic attitude that flatters guitars and drums won't be a plus. EQ
isn't an issue, because it all gets recorded flat to make later pickups
match, and goes into PTHD and spit back out with Waves EQ (and comps).



So within a budget of $2500 for the pre/strip and the mic, what comes
to mind? Obviously, the old "different voices require different
things", but we can always put up one of the above if we want. Due to
the nature of recent projects, the HHB and 87 have been left in
position for everyone and everyone has sounded good on them. We do
feel the need for a quieter track and a bit more detail, and we want a
"go to" combo that we can leave set up.
So...any advice?


Thanks!!!

V

wrote:
We've been doing enough narration this year that we're getting the itch
to get a pre-mic, maybe pre/comp/mic combo that are really geared
towards that, instead of using the pres and mics meant for music
recording. The pres we've put into service have been HHB Radius 30,
TLA pre-comp, and RNP. Mics have been variously an 87, KSM32 and 414.
Results have always been good, but it's time to end the compromise.

I don't see a whole lot of compromise in the items you've mentioned. What is your room like? How is the talent?




within a budget of $2500 for the pre/strip and the mic, what comes
to mind?

A new room? Better talent?

wrote:
We've been doing enough narration this year that we're getting the itch
to get a pre-mic, maybe pre/comp/mic combo that are really geared
towards that, instead of using the pres and mics meant for music
recording. The pres we've put into service have been HHB Radius 30,
TLA pre-comp, and RNP. Mics have been variously an 87, KSM32 and 414.
Results have always been good, but it's time to end the compromise.


Looking for more detail, basically, and a better noise floor. The
sonic attitude that flatters guitars and drums won't be a plus. EQ
isn't an issue, because it all gets recorded flat to make later pickups
match, and goes into PTHD and spit back out with Waves EQ (and comps).



So within a budget of $2500 for the pre/strip and the mic, what comes
to mind? Obviously, the old "different voices require different
things", but we can always put up one of the above if we want. Due to
the nature of recent projects, the HHB and 87 have been left in
position for everyone and everyone has sounded good on them. We do
feel the need for a quieter track and a bit more detail, and we want a
"go to" combo that we can leave set up.
So...any advice?


Thanks!!!

V


I've done a lot of experimentation in this area in the last year because
my voice-only studio has bad acoustics. My voice processor is a secret
(it would not be of interest to music rocordists anyway) but I can tell
you that it has a downward expander for noise floor control. The trick
is to use the DE such that you cannot hear it work. It's hard to do, but
it can be done.

Of all the mics I've tried (U87, RE20, SM57, KMS105, Beta 87A, KM184,
SM7, MKH416, and more), the U87 significantly outperforms the others. I
cannot explain way. second best is the KMS105. Each of the mics sounds
good and has its own sound, but the U87 rejects more of the room and
allows a lesser amount of DE.

My latest realization is that I'm going to have to record the voice
tracks dry and then post process them through the mic processor. Since
I'm the talent (word used loosely) and the engineer, monitoring while
recording is a little touch. Some big projects are coming up, so I don't
want to record with DE and then change my mind 100 hours into the projects.

Your mileage may vary.

wrote:
We've been doing enough narration this year that we're getting the itch
to get a pre-mic, maybe pre/comp/mic combo that are really geared
towards that, instead of using the pres and mics meant for music
recording. The pres we've put into service have been HHB Radius 30,
TLA pre-comp, and RNP. Mics have been variously an 87, KSM32 and 414.
Results have always been good, but it's time to end the compromise.


I agree with others--you have equipment that many use successfully on a wide
variety of voices with excellent results. Tell us what makes you unhappy
about your recordings.

Steve King

vdubreeze wrote:

We've been doing enough narration this year that we're getting the itch
to get a pre-mic, maybe pre/comp/mic combo that are really geared
towards that, instead of using the pres and mics meant for music
recording. The pres we've put into service have been HHB Radius 30,
TLA pre-comp, and RNP. Mics have been variously an 87, KSM32 and 414.
Results have always been good, but it's time to end the compromise.

What compromise? I'm thinking the problem(s) (not yet defined for us)
have to do with talent, room, or application of the tools.

The stuff you have is good enough for the job. But if I had to upgrade
it I'd probably toss the HHB and the TLA and add an RNC to the RNP, but
that's just me. If I could spend more I'd get a Great River MEQ-1NV and
an LA2.

http://www.greatriverelectronics.com/products.html

--
ha

hank alrich wrote:

What compromise? I'm thinking the problem(s) (not yet defined for us)
have to do with talent, room, or application of the tools.

The stuff you have is good enough for the job. But if I had to
upgrade
it I'd probably toss the HHB and the TLA and add an RNC to the RNP,
but
that's just me. If I could spend more I'd get a Great River MEQ-1NV
and
an LA2.


Our booth is fine and the talent is top notch. Have RNCs. Love 'em,
but have found that neither the super nice mode nor the regular mode
really ideal for voice-overs. Thing is, I did a session elsewhere
that used some of the same talent using an Avalon M5 and a Neumann 149,
and the better detail and lower noise floor (practically the same
booth) is what made me listen back to the stuff with our 87 and the HHB
and RNP (the former having better noise floor on quiet recordings while
the latter had better detail). Obviously the 149 is several grand,
but the Avalon is within reach so I'm looking for advice on the best
way to move toward that result within $2,500, maybe $3,000.


The 87 has been very good, but I've been hearing things in other voice
recordings (that we get to score to) that I can only describe as to our
87 as it is to the KSM32. An RE20 didn't work well simply because
it didn't have enough gain, but perhaps the RE20 with a Grace?


I hear great things about the MEQ-1NV, but haven't come across one.
Like I said, not looking for sizzle or boom, just transparency and
gain. There's a Focusrite ISA220 available locally, but all the
affordable Focusrite things that I've heard seem like whole different
(weinier) animals than the better ones. Is the ISA220 worth
considering?

Thanks again, all, for your thoughts on this. I really aprreciate
them.


V

wrote:


Our booth is fine and the talent is top notch.

OK.



I did a session elsewhere
that used some of the same talent using an Avalon M5 and a Neumann 149,
and the better detail and lower noise floor (practically the same
booth) is what made me listen back to the stuff with our 87 and the HHB
and RNP (the former having better noise floor on quiet recordings while
the latter had better detail). Obviously the 149 is several grand,
but the Avalon is within reach so I'm looking for advice on the best
way to move toward that result within $2,500, maybe $3,000.

Combine the the MP-1NV with an EQ-1NV and you're right there, but without a compressor.




The 87 has been very good, but I've been hearing things in other voice
recordings (that we get to score to) that I can only describe as to our
87 as it is to the KSM32. An RE20 didn't work well simply because
it didn't have enough gain, but perhaps the RE20 with a Grace?

IME, U87's generally respond well to Neve-ish preamps. Call a dealer and get an eval of the two Great River boxes and see what you think. The EQ is stunning, BTW.

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 00:24:25 -0500, wrote
(in article .com):

We've been doing enough narration this year that we're getting the itch
to get a pre-mic, maybe pre/comp/mic combo that are really geared
towards that, instead of using the pres and mics meant for music
recording. The pres we've put into service have been HHB Radius 30,
TLA pre-comp, and RNP. Mics have been variously an 87, KSM32 and 414.
Results have always been good, but it's time to end the compromise.


Looking for more detail, basically, and a better noise floor. The
sonic attitude that flatters guitars and drums won't be a plus. EQ
isn't an issue, because it all gets recorded flat to make later pickups
match, and goes into PTHD and spit back out with Waves EQ (and comps).



So within a budget of $2500 for the pre/strip and the mic, what comes
to mind? Obviously, the old "different voices require different
things", but we can always put up one of the above if we want. Due to
the nature of recent projects, the HHB and 87 have been left in
position for everyone and everyone has sounded good on them. We do
feel the need for a quieter track and a bit more detail, and we want a
"go to" combo that we can leave set up.
So...any advice?



Quieter? Hmm, Rode NT2-A with a John Hardy pre?...Among half a million
possibilities. See my site for reviews.

Regards,

Ty Ford





-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

In article .com,
wrote:

hank alrich wrote:

What compromise? I'm thinking the problem(s) (not yet defined for us)
have to do with talent, room, or application of the tools.

The stuff you have is good enough for the job. But if I had to
upgrade
it I'd probably toss the HHB and the TLA and add an RNC to the RNP,
but
that's just me. If I could spend more I'd get a Great River MEQ-1NV
and
an LA2.


Agree...the TLA may be part of your problem, I've little experience with
TLA stuff, and haven't really cared much for what I did use (some
unremarkable "tube" compressor). Not crap, but not top-notch. Never used
HHB mic preamps.

If you need to compress analog, on the way in (and I've been doing it
that way for at least 15 years, YMMV!), my first choice is the TubeTech
dual compressor (TCA2B????....something like that....), 2nd choice would
be a good 1176.

But this is the age of 24-bit recording. Since the noise floor of the
medium is negligible, you can maybe forgoe the input compressor, and
just compress on the mix side, and there are a few decent software
compressors. The only issue is that the talent won't hear the
compression, and "work" it (most talent can't tell anyway, so it's
almost always a moot point)....unless you've got a low-latency system
and can monitor with compression.


Our booth is fine and the talent is top notch. Have RNCs. Love 'em,
but have found that neither the super nice mode nor the regular mode
really ideal for voice-overs. Thing is, I did a session elsewhere
that used some of the same talent using an Avalon M5 and a Neumann 149,
and the better detail and lower noise floor (practically the same
booth) is what made me listen back to the stuff with our 87 and the HHB
and RNP (the former having better noise floor on quiet recordings while
the latter had better detail). Obviously the 149 is several grand,

North of 5 grand I think. It is however, a great mic with more
sensitivity and detail than the U87. This mic and preamp is probably a
major part of the difference you're hearing. All the Avalon stuff I've
used is top-notch (with the exception of the compressor section in the
737, which is usable but not my first choice...particularly for VO work).

but the Avalon is within reach so I'm looking for advice on the best
way to move toward that result within $2,500, maybe $3,000.


The 87 has been very good, but I've been hearing things in other voice
recordings (that we get to score to) that I can only describe as to our
87 as it is to the KSM32. An RE20 didn't work well simply because
it didn't have enough gain, but perhaps the RE20 with a Grace?


The U87 is a very fine mic, and it seems that unless there's something
wrong with it, you should be able to get VERY nice tracks from it. It's
pretty common for VO use as well as music vocals. It shouldn't be noisy
either.

I doubt you'll get the detail you want from an RE20.

See if you can audition your U87 with that Avalon.


I hear great things about the MEQ-1NV, but haven't come across one.
Like I said, not looking for sizzle or boom, just transparency and
gain. There's a Focusrite ISA220 available locally, but all the
affordable Focusrite things that I've heard seem like whole different
(weinier) animals than the better ones. Is the ISA220 worth
considering?

Absolutely!!! The Focusrite ISA 220 and 110 are two of my favorite mic
pres....clean, transparent. Be aware that the mic gain switches tend to
get funky (on some units the higher gain positions can go "open" and you
end up with simply stupid amounts of gain, feedback, howling from the
channel, and subsequent howling from the now-deaf talent!!!). Check ALL
the pots and switches thoroughly before purchasing!

In a similar vein is the Amek 9098. Pairs nicely with the M149. Or the
Sony C-800. But I think I'm getting out of your price range....

The lower-end Focusrite stuff is NOT in the same class as the original
Blue-range Focusrite (I can't speak for the new Blue stuff..."Producer
pack" etc....).

Short version:

Get a good mic pre.

Upgrade or dispense with the input compressor.

Save up for an M149 or C-800.

Jeff C.

--
Anti-Spam email address in effect.
My real email should be pretty obvious to an actual human being.