My initial research of balanced audio cable is it can eliminiate
interference of mic wire by canceling noise out. I have a Sony MHF-800.
I would like to know if it's possible for me to take advantage of
balanced audio. What mic and/or accessories do I need? Thanks.

"chris" wrote ...
My initial research of balanced audio cable is it can eliminiate
interference of mic wire by canceling noise out. I have a Sony
MHF-800. I would like to know if it's possible for me to take
advantage of balanced audio. What mic and/or accessories do
I need? Thanks.

Your MD recorder most likely does NOT have balanced inputs.
However, there are external devices that will interface (adapt)
between balanced mic lines and the unbalanced input of your MD
recorder.

Note, however, that a good pair of balancing transformers may
cost more than your MD recorder. Balanced audio lines are not
a magic bullet. Balancing is a valid way of avoiding several kinds
of audio interference/artifacts, but never forget the old adage:
"If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it." It is entirely possible that
unbalanced mic lines may be simpler, cheaper, and even better
sounding for your application.

Most higher-end microphones have low-impedance balanced
outputs. Selecting a mic on the basis of whether it is balanced
or not is something like selecting a vehicle based on how many
cup holders it has. There are a great many far more important
factors that would go into selecting a microphone including
your budget and proposed application(s).

You could also refer to the FAQ for further discussion, tutorial
on balanced lines, etc. at http://www.recaudiopro.net/

A high-end balancing transformer device for MD, DAT, etc.
recorders is shown here...
http://www.jensentransformers.com/as/as037.pdf
Note that this is quite possibly overkill for your application(?)

chris wrote:
My initial research of balanced audio cable is it can eliminiate
interference of mic wire by canceling noise out. I have a Sony MHF-800.
I would like to know if it's possible for me to take advantage of
balanced audio. What mic and/or accessories do I need? Thanks.

The wire does't cancel the sound its the balanced input that does when
properly terminated
George

George Gleason wrote:
chris wrote:

My initial research of balanced audio cable is it can eliminiate
interference of mic wire by canceling noise out. I have a Sony
MHF-800. I would like to know if it's possible for me to take
advantage of balanced audio. What mic and/or accessories do I need?
Thanks.


The wire does't cancel the sound its the balanced input that does when
properly terminated
George


I am sorry if I was not clear. I mean moving the mic wire generates
noise. For most audio recording, I don't move the mic but sometimes,
when I am doing video, I have to move and there will be noise. That is
when connecting to a DV camcorder. It would likely require a pro
camcorder with balanced audio input to solve that problem.

Let's get back to the Hi-MD. It has a digital optical input so I think
there moght be mixers that can take in balanced mike signals, mix it and
convert it to digital optical signal. I am just checking out. I don't
expect the cost is cheap.

chris wrote:
George Gleason wrote:

chris wrote:

My initial research of balanced audio cable is it can eliminiate
interference of mic wire by canceling noise out. I have a Sony
MHF-800. I would like to know if it's possible for me to take
advantage of balanced audio. What mic and/or accessories do I need?
Thanks.



The wire does't cancel the sound its the balanced input that does
when properly terminated
George



I am sorry if I was not clear. I mean moving the mic wire generates
noise. For most audio recording, I don't move the mic but sometimes,
when I am doing video, I have to move and there will be noise. That is
when connecting to a DV camcorder. It would likely require a pro
camcorder with balanced audio input to solve that problem.

Maybe. balanced works because signal is on one conductor but ambient
noise is on both
the wires terminate as + and - at the input anything on single
connducotor passes through any this on both conductors hits the input
reversed in polarity and cancels itself
so if your noise is common to both conductors it cancels but if it is
propagated along just one conductor it will pass unaffected

Let's get back to the Hi-MD. It has a digital optical input so I think
there moght be mixers that can take in balanced mike signals, mix it and
convert it to digital optical signal. I am just checking out. I don't
expect the cost is cheap.


your exceeding my areas of knowledge
I am sure someone here know your answer
G

I am sorry if I was not clear. I mean moving the mic wire generates noise.

IMO this is probably a connector problem, or the cable is bad.

Balanced cable arrangements eliminate noise induced by electrical
interference, but electrical interference doesn't just 'occur' because you
move the cables....

-John O

chris wrote:

I am sorry if I was not clear. I mean moving the mic wire generates
noise. For most audio recording, I don't move the mic but sometimes,
when I am doing video, I have to move and there will be noise. That is
when connecting to a DV camcorder. It would likely require a pro
camcorder with balanced audio input to solve that problem.

No, that's not electronic noise. That's probably a mixture of conducted noise
caused by crappy microphone shockmounting, and connector noise from those
godawful 1/8" phone plugs.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
chris wrote:

I am sorry if I was not clear. I mean moving the mic wire generates
noise. For most audio recording, I don't move the mic but sometimes,
when I am doing video, I have to move and there will be noise. That is
when connecting to a DV camcorder. It would likely require a pro
camcorder with balanced audio input to solve that problem.


No, that's not electronic noise. That's probably a mixture of conducted noise
caused by crappy microphone shockmounting, and connector noise from those
godawful 1/8" phone plugs.
--scott


Thank you. You're right. I found out that the noise is from the
connector of the mic. It looks like I don't need balanced audio for my
purpose but need to find a good sturdy mic with a solid connector.

chris wrote:

Thank you. You're right. I found out that the noise is from the
connector of the mic. It looks like I don't need balanced audio for my
purpose but need to find a good sturdy mic with a solid connector.

This, in short, is why professional gear uses XLR connectors.
The 1/8" plug is just a total disaster for any application, and it is
used everywhere in the consumer world because it is so cheap to make.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:

chris wrote:

Thank you. You're right. I found out that the noise is from the
connector of the mic. It looks like I don't need balanced audio for my
purpose but need to find a good sturdy mic with a solid connector.


This, in short, is why professional gear uses XLR connectors.
The 1/8" plug is just a total disaster for any application, and it is
used everywhere in the consumer world because it is so cheap to make.


The double-gotcha is that most of the gadgets they put those on have to
be picked up and turned over to operate because there's no room on the
"front" to put all the controls.

S O'Neill wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

chris wrote:

Thank you. You're right. I found out that the noise is from the
connector of the mic. It looks like I don't need balanced audio for
my
purpose but need to find a good sturdy mic with a solid connector.


This, in short, is why professional gear uses XLR connectors.
The 1/8" plug is just a total disaster for any application, and it
is
used everywhere in the consumer world because it is so cheap to
make.


The double-gotcha is that most of the gadgets they put those on have
to
be picked up and turned over to operate because there's no room on
the
"front" to put all the controls.


Some consumer grade 1/8" mic input connecotrs also have a kind of
phantom power DC feed on them (not 48 V but a few volts DC) for
powering electret mics. The DC being there makes the connector MUCH
more likely to create noise from mechanical movement.

Mark

S O'Neill wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

chris wrote:

Thank you. You're right. I found out that the noise is from the
connector of the mic. It looks like I don't need balanced audio for
my
purpose but need to find a good sturdy mic with a solid connector.


This, in short, is why professional gear uses XLR connectors.
The 1/8" plug is just a total disaster for any application, and it
is
used everywhere in the consumer world because it is so cheap to
make.


The double-gotcha is that most of the gadgets they put those on have
to
be picked up and turned over to operate because there's no room on
the
"front" to put all the controls.


I should have added that if you are using a dynamic mic, adding a DC
blocking cap in series with the "hot" lead can reduce the effect of the
DC voltage making the connector more noisey.

Mark

Scott Dorsey wrote:
chris wrote:

Thank you. You're right. I found out that the noise is from the
connector of the mic. It looks like I don't need balanced audio for my
purpose but need to find a good sturdy mic with a solid connector.


This, in short, is why professional gear uses XLR connectors.
The 1/8" plug is just a total disaster for any application, and it is
used everywhere in the consumer world because it is so cheap to make.
--scott


It's the end where the mic is - the shock mounting?. The 1/8" end that
connects to the MD or DV is okay. It seems that I just need a higher
quality mic.

In article et,
chris wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:
chris wrote:

Thank you. You're right. I found out that the noise is from the
connector of the mic. It looks like I don't need balanced audio for my
purpose but need to find a good sturdy mic with a solid connector.


This, in short, is why professional gear uses XLR connectors.
The 1/8" plug is just a total disaster for any application, and it is
used everywhere in the consumer world because it is so cheap to make.

It's the end where the mic is - the shock mounting?. The 1/8" end that
connects to the MD or DV is okay. It seems that I just need a higher
quality mic.

I thought you said it was from the connector. If it's noise that is conducted
from the cable to the microphone, it's conducted noise from poor shockmounting
and has nothing to do with the connector.

But don't worry, the connector will become noisy soon enough.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

It's the end where the mic is - the shock mounting?. The 1/8" end that
connects to the MD or DV is okay. It seems that I just need a higher
quality mic.


there is no such thing as a "OK" 1/8 connector
george

Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article et,
chris wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:

chris wrote:


Thank you. You're right. I found out that the noise is from the
connector of the mic. It looks like I don't need balanced audio for my
purpose but need to find a good sturdy mic with a solid connector.


This, in short, is why professional gear uses XLR connectors.
The 1/8" plug is just a total disaster for any application, and it is
used everywhere in the consumer world because it is so cheap to make.

It's the end where the mic is - the shock mounting?. The 1/8" end that
connects to the MD or DV is okay. It seems that I just need a higher
quality mic.


I thought you said it was from the connector. If it's noise that is conducted
from the cable to the microphone, it's conducted noise from poor shockmounting
and has nothing to do with the connector.

But don't worry, the connector will become noisy soon enough.
--scott


Sorry, I don't know much about audio recording. This is the first time I
heard of shockmounting. I think this is the cause of the unwanted noise.
It's a special plug which is part of the cable that connects the mic. I
turn the the other end (1/8" plug )around and around but I don't notice
any noise.

Mike Rivers wrote:

There are a few possiblities. The most likely is that the noise is
mechanical and is picked up by the mic. The other is that bending the
cable actually generates a signal (there's a name for this and it's
not piezoelectric - it's a different effect). And then of course if
it's a crackling, static-like noise, it could be that the cable itself
is defective, with a break that makes contact most of the time but
opens when stressed. Or it could be the marvelously flaky mini plug
moving a small amount in its jack when you move the cable.

It's not the wire, I found out. By moving the wire, it vibrates the tail
end of the plug that goes into the mic. When I touch the mic, it
generates some noise too.

You're right about the cost. I've been on the lookout for a compact
mic preamp with an optical digital output that costs in the $200
ballpark. $500 for the Core Sound is about as near as close as I've
come.

Have you had any luck in finding one?

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

George Gleason wrote:


It's the end where the mic is - the shock mounting?. The 1/8" end that
connects to the MD or DV is okay. It seems that I just need a higher
quality mic.



there is no such thing as a "OK" 1/8 connector
george


For me, it's alright. I am not doing critical recordings. I just don't
want those loud mic noise. I think my mic has no shock mount. I do want
to have an external mic on the DV camcorder. What system should I use to
avoid those kinds of mic noise?

chris wrote:
George Gleason wrote:



It's the end where the mic is - the shock mounting?. The 1/8" end
that connects to the MD or DV is okay. It seems that I just need a
higher quality mic.




there is no such thing as a "OK" 1/8 connector
george



For me, it's alright. I am not doing critical recordings. I just don't
want those loud mic noise. I think my mic has no shock mount. I do want
to have an external mic on the DV camcorder. What system should I use to
avoid those kinds of mic noise?


I would pack in a case with foam to insure no movement of the unit or
connector
perhaps even a touch of hot melt glue where the connector goes into the
md unit
George

chris wrote:

For me, it's alright. I am not doing critical recordings. I just don't
want those loud mic noise. I think my mic has no shock mount. I do want
to have an external mic on the DV camcorder. What system should I use to
avoid those kinds of mic noise?

Well, for one thing, forget about using a mike on-camera. That's not
just a shortcut to induced noise from the camera, it's also not very
controllable and much too far from the source.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 00:09:56 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
wrote:

Selecting a mic on the basis of whether it is balanced
or not is something like selecting a vehicle based on how many
cup holders it has. snip

Women DO buy vehicles based on THIS FACTOR! I've seen it with my own
eyes!

There are a great many far more important
factors that would go into selecting a microphone including
your budget and proposed application(s). snip

Balanced lines were around from the initial days of the telephone.
Unbalanced lines are comparitively new, as a way to avoid adding
expensive repeat coils (proper WECO nomenclature for any 1:1
transformer) on both the transmit and receive sides. The earlier
application of unbalanced lines was the coaxial cable for HF and
above, invented in 1927 by Bell Labs' Lloyd Espenscheid.

Several factors dictate what you can get away with. Certainly cheap
equipment with cheap balanced terminating equipment is worse than
better gear that's set up for unbalanced inputs. For short runs where
no electrostatic field exist, there's nothing really wrong with
unbalanced. But for pro work, there's no substitute, of course.

dB

In article et writes:

You're right about the cost. I've been on the lookout for a compact
mic preamp with an optical digital output that costs in the $200
ballpark.

Have you had any luck in finding one?

If I had, I wouldn't keep it a secret.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article . net writes:

there is no such thing as a "OK" 1/8 connector

For me, it's alright. I am not doing critical recordings.

"Critical recordings" aren't a matter of life and death, but if you
spend an evening recording a concert and come home to listen to
crackles or no sound, that can tend to make you want to kill the
person who decided that was the right connector to use on the
recorder. That's when it gets "critical."

I think my mic has no shock mount. I do want
to have an external mic on the DV camcorder. What system should I use to
avoid those kinds of mic noise?

A shock mount is something that suspends the microphone in something
that absorbs vibration. Here's a link to the poop sheet on an Audio
Technica shock mount that's pretty much universal for small diameter
microphones:

http://www.audiotechnica.com/prodpro...o/8410a-15.pdf

Most microphones have some sort of internal shock mount to isolate the
capsule at least a little from handling noise. But some don't, some
aren't very effective, and some get stiff with age (just like us).
This may have been what Scotte was talking about when he said your mic
wasn't properly shock mounted.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Mike Rivers wrote:

Most microphones have some sort of internal shock mount to isolate the
capsule at least a little from handling noise. But some don't, some
aren't very effective, and some get stiff with age (just like us).

If everybody got stiff with age, they wouldn't sell so much viagra.

x-no archive: yes

Mike Rivers wrote:

writes:

You're right about the cost. I've been on the lookout for a compact
mic preamp with an optical digital output that costs in the $200
ballpark.

Have you had any luck in finding one?

If I had, I wouldn't keep it a secret.

Wat a minute... is that a trick answer??

--
ha

"agent86" wrote in message
.. .
Mike Rivers wrote:

Most microphones have some sort of internal shock mount to isolate the
capsule at least a little from handling noise. But some don't, some
aren't very effective, and some get stiff with age (just like us).

If everybody got stiff with age, they wouldn't sell so much viagra.


They say as you get older every thing that's supposed be soft is hard and
vice-versa. Everything also gets bigger, hairier, and closer to the ground.

On 2005-01-05, DeserTBoB wrote:

Women DO buy vehicles based on THIS FACTOR! I've seen it with my own
eyes!

Ah, comfort. My other half just bought a truck based on *torque*.
On the other hand, she *is* a scientist...

On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 17:49:24 GMT, james of tucson
wrote:

Ah, comfort. My other half just bought a truck based on *torque*.
On the other hand, she *is* a scientist... snip

"Torque" ratings won't do you very much good if the engine that
generates it won't last very long doing so. Classic example: The
Chevrolet small block, as bad a truck engine as there ever was.
Before they finally ironed out most of the bugs in this flawed design,
most pickups in commercial use would maybe get 70K miles before the
camshaft would need replacing or it'd throw a rod. Meanwhile, over at
Ford, the old FE engines were good for 300K miles and more.

dB

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 13:25:09 GMT, chris wrote:

I am sorry if I was not clear. I mean moving the mic wire generates
noise. For most audio recording, I don't move the mic but sometimes,
when I am doing video, I have to move and there will be noise. That is
when connecting to a DV camcorder. It would likely require a pro
camcorder with balanced audio input to solve that problem.

If you have a noisy cable in this way, replace it with a better one.
It's noisy because it's a crap cable, not because it's carrying a
balanced or unbalanced signal.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

On 2005-01-06, DeserTBoB wrote:

Ah, comfort. My other half just bought a truck based on *torque*.
On the other hand, she *is* a scientist... snip

"Torque" ratings won't do you very much good

I don't think anybody looked at ratings. No, this was a scientific
determination, made based on the observation of "goddam, this thing
has balls."

I, the male half of the family, drive a Volvo station wagon (and a
1962 VW van)...

Laurence Payne wrote:
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 13:25:09 GMT, chris wrote:


I am sorry if I was not clear. I mean moving the mic wire generates
noise. For most audio recording, I don't move the mic but sometimes,
when I am doing video, I have to move and there will be noise. That is
when connecting to a DV camcorder. It would likely require a pro
camcorder with balanced audio input to solve that problem.


If you have a noisy cable in this way, replace it with a better one.
It's noisy because it's a crap cable, not because it's carrying a
balanced or unbalanced signal.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect


I found out the noise's not coming from the cable but from the mic and
where it connects to the cable. The cruel method I can think of to avoid
the noise is to duck-tape the the mic and bit of the wire to a rod!

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 16:59:12 GMT, chris wrote:

I found out the noise's not coming from the cable but from the mic and
where it connects to the cable. The cruel method I can think of to avoid
the noise is to duck-tape the the mic and bit of the wire to a rod! snip

Open up the mic connector and fix the leads. And it's DUCT tape, not
"duck tape."

dB

Richard Kuschel wrote:
I found out the noise's not coming from the cable but from the mic and

where it connects to the cable. The cruel method I can think of to avoid

the noise is to duck-tape the the mic and bit of the wire to a rod! snip

Open up the mic connector and fix the leads. And it's DUCT tape, not
"duck tape."

dB

Actually it is both
the most common is Duct tape a plasticised tape for sealing air ducts
but there is also tape formulated on "duck" cloth
as my dad was a sheet metal worker and quite anal about such things I
was often "corrected' when I used the wrong name about the house
but today I couldn't tell a roll of Duct from a roll of Duck
I liked the chromed tape he used that was about 3 inches wide

George

DeserTBoB wrote:

And it's DUCT tape, not "duck tape."

There is now actually a brand name "Duck Tape". That's how they label
their duct tape. It's good for holding goosenecks firmly, and for muting
guitar strings for chicken pickin'.

--
ha

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:52:46 -0600, Tracy Wintermute
wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 20:17:26 GMT, (hank alrich)
wrote:

There is now actually a brand name "Duck Tape". That's how they label
their duct tape. It's good for holding goosenecks firmly, and for muting
guitar strings for chicken pickin'.

Duck, goose, chicken..... What's with all the fowl language?

Aww... Get the pluck out of here!



====================
Tracy Wintermute

Rushcreek Ranch
====================

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 20:17:26 GMT, (hank alrich)
wrote:

There is now actually a brand name "Duck Tape". That's how they label
their duct tape. It's good for holding goosenecks firmly, and for muting
guitar strings for chicken pickin'.

Duck, goose, chicken..... What's with all the fowl language?


====================
Tracy Wintermute

Rushcreek Ranch
====================

George Gleason wrote:
Richard Kuschel wrote:

I found out the noise's not coming from the cable but from the mic and


where it connects to the cable. The cruel method I can think of to
avoid


the noise is to duck-tape the the mic and bit of the wire to a rod!
snip


Open up the mic connector and fix the leads. And it's DUCT tape, not
"duck tape."

dB


Actually it is both
the most common is Duct tape a plasticised tape for sealing air ducts
but there is also tape formulated on "duck" cloth
as my dad was a sheet metal worker and quite anal about such things I
was often "corrected' when I used the wrong name about the house
but today I couldn't tell a roll of Duct from a roll of Duck
I liked the chromed tape he used that was about 3 inches wide

George


It was orignially called duck tape when the army invented it. They used
it to seal their ammunition containers.

"Ben Bradley" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:52:46 -0600, Tracy Wintermute
wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 20:17:26 GMT, (hank alrich)
wrote:

There is now actually a brand name "Duck Tape". That's how they label
their duct tape. It's good for holding goosenecks firmly, and for muting
guitar strings for chicken pickin'.

Duck, goose, chicken..... What's with all the fowl language?

Aww... Get the pluck out of here!

Yer all a bunch of quacks.

Peace,
Paul

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 07:21:54 GMT, "Paul Stamler"
wrote:

Yer all a bunch of quacks. snip

AFLAC!!!!!!

Yer all a bunch of quacks.

Peace,
Paul

I'm all quacked up at the sentiment. Honestly, I can't duck the
possibilities of something that holds together such disparate industries as
quackers and soup. Ducking the obvious barbs, I am all tied up in
quackmental tape. Really, it's not worth ducking the barb, but it's worth
barbing the duck. Hence peeking at you with Duck on the mind we come up
with Peking duck tape and orang-ya-glad I didn't say sauce?
--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Paul Stamler" wrote in message
...

"Ben Bradley" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:52:46 -0600, Tracy Wintermute
wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 20:17:26 GMT, (hank alrich)
wrote:

There is now actually a brand name "Duck Tape". That's how they label
their duct tape. It's good for holding goosenecks firmly, and for
muting
guitar strings for chicken pickin'.

Duck, goose, chicken..... What's with all the fowl language?

Aww... Get the pluck out of here!