Hi there,

I wonder how jitter would sound like...

Actually, I had my new mic preamp connected
to my computer (w/ S/PDIF) and there was some
noise, but only when recording an distorted
guitar (using a SM57). And I'm not sure if
this could be "jitter sound" or something
like distortion by overdriving the SM57 in
the pre (I had to turn the gain down low
since it was a very hot signal).

I don't use any clock signal to sync the pre
(dbx386) and I'm even not sure if the cable
is a fully-qualified 75ohm RCA thingy or
just an over-priced RCA audio cable with
gold connectors (was around 13$).

Any suggestions or experiences with jitter?
Thank you very much.

Nudge

--
Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
http://studio.lieber-media.de

"Nudge" wrote in message

Hi there,

I wonder how jitter would sound like...

http://www.pcabx.com/technical/jitter_power/index.htm

Thanks for the hint.
It was no jitter, then in my case.

Kind Regards
Nudge


Arny Krueger wrote:
"Nudge" wrote in message


Hi there,

I wonder how jitter would sound like...


http://www.pcabx.com/technical/jitter_power/index.htm



--
Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
http://studio.lieber-media.de

In article , Nudge wrote:
I wonder how jitter would sound like...

Jitter causes sidebands to appear on the side of each tone. This makes things
sound "fuzzy" and "less clear" for the most part. You can think of what jitter
does as a more subtle version of tape flutter.

Actually, I had my new mic preamp connected
to my computer (w/ S/PDIF) and there was some
noise, but only when recording an distorted
guitar (using a SM57). And I'm not sure if
this could be "jitter sound" or something
like distortion by overdriving the SM57 in
the pre (I had to turn the gain down low
since it was a very hot signal).

Jitter has nothing to do with any of this. Jitter does not cause noise.
It causes a sort of distortion, but one where the distortion products are
very close in frequency to the original tone. It is a fairly subtle thing
in comparison with what you are experiencing.

You should like you're clipping the preamp. Put a pad on the preamp
input and stop worrying so much.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Actually, I had my new mic preamp connected
to my computer (w/ S/PDIF) and there was some
noise, but only when recording an distorted
guitar (using a SM57). And I'm not sure if
this could be "jitter sound" or something
like distortion by overdriving the SM57 in
the pre (I had to turn the gain down low
since it was a very hot signal).

Jitter has nothing to do with any of this. Jitter does not cause noise.
It causes a sort of distortion, but one where the distortion products are
very close in frequency to the original tone. It is a fairly subtle thing
in comparison with what you are experiencing.

You should like you're clipping the preamp. Put a pad on the preamp
input and stop worrying so much.
--scott

OK, I did. I turned the pre's -20dB pad on
and had the analog input well below -6dB,
varying the gain and digital output volume,
and kept it safely under -6db, sometimes
under -12dB. But it was still there.
And now I'm really worrying.

I would like you to listen to it:
http://www.lieber-media.de/mathias/s...x386_noise.mp3
(~ 700 KB) You can hear that especially at sec. 14 and 15.
It's a high-pitch crispy noise.

Could you give me your opinion about it?
Thank you very much.

Nudge

--
Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
http://studio.lieber-media.de

In article writes:

I would like you to listen to it:

I don't normally do this, but since it was a fairly short file I took
a listen. It sounds like a pretty consistently distorted guitar to me
and I can't tell any diference in the sound around 14-15 seconds.
Either something is getting lost in the translation or I'm just not
sensitive to the subtlties of horribly distorted guitar.

Try the same thing with a clean guitar sound.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1102950485k@trad
In article writes:

I would like you to listen to it:

I don't normally do this, but since it was a fairly short file I took
a listen. It sounds like a pretty consistently distorted guitar to me
and I can't tell any diference in the sound around 14-15 seconds.
Either something is getting lost in the translation or I'm just not
sensitive to the subtlties of horribly distorted guitar.

Try the same thing with a clean guitar sound.

Ditto. It looks there is a certain note that when played, changes the
texture of the sound. However, isn't changing the texture the desired
outcome from playing a different note?

In article znr1102950485k@trad, Mike Rivers wrote:

In article writes:

I would like you to listen to it:

I don't normally do this, but since it was a fairly short file I took
a listen. It sounds like a pretty consistently distorted guitar to me
and I can't tell any diference in the sound around 14-15 seconds.
Either something is getting lost in the translation or I'm just not
sensitive to the subtlties of horribly distorted guitar.

Try the same thing with a clean guitar sound.

OR, move the microphone out to the edge of the speaker where it won't get
as bright a sound from the amp.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article znr1102950485k@trad, Mike Rivers wrote:

In article writes:


I would like you to listen to it:

I don't normally do this, but since it was a fairly short file I took
a listen. It sounds like a pretty consistently distorted guitar to me
and I can't tell any diference in the sound around 14-15 seconds.
Either something is getting lost in the translation or I'm just not
sensitive to the subtlties of horribly distorted guitar.

Try the same thing with a clean guitar sound.


OR, move the microphone out to the edge of the speaker where it won't get
as bright a sound from the amp.
--scott


About the mic sound:
It was the first time I tried the miking method as described on the
shure website: dead center, 4" away from the grill. That should give
an "well-balanced, natural" tone. Indeed, it's rather bright.
http://www.shurenotes.com/issue6/article.asp?flash=true

About the noise:
I took another track with the mic more on the edge: it's more obvious.
But the real problem is:
That problem occurs only in the digital domain.
I tried the analog output and there, the crispy noise doesn't
exist. Even with a somewhat hotter signal.
That's why I thought it was jitter. It isn't, as I learned.
I have some options left:
- dropouts caused by a bad RCA cable
- dropouts caused by bad latency settings/buffer sizes
- bad syncing mode (Sonar set to "Full Midi Chase")

I have prepared yet another mp3 using a clean guitar,
played by someone else. It's about 300KB and lasts only 7 seconds.
I don't want to waste your time and I appreciate your help very much.
Believe me, in this sample, it's absolutely obvious.
http://www.lieber-media.de/mathias/s...386_noise2.mp3

I'm sorry for any inconvinience.
PLEASE HELP ME! ;-)

Kind Regards
Nudge

--
Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
http://studio.lieber-media.de

In article , Nudge wrote:

About the mic sound:
It was the first time I tried the miking method as described on the
shure website: dead center, 4" away from the grill. That should give
an "well-balanced, natural" tone. Indeed, it's rather bright.
http://www.shurenotes.com/issue6/article.asp?flash=true

No, that gives a very bright tone. Turn the amp down and put your head
in front of it. Stick a finger in one ear while somebody plays with the
other, and listen to how the amp sounds as you move around it. It sounds
different in the center than it does on the edge, and it sounds even more
different in back.

About the noise:
I took another track with the mic more on the edge: it's more obvious.
But the real problem is:
That problem occurs only in the digital domain.
I tried the analog output and there, the crispy noise doesn't
exist. Even with a somewhat hotter signal.
That's why I thought it was jitter. It isn't, as I learned.

How do you know?

I have some options left:
- dropouts caused by a bad RCA cable
- dropouts caused by bad latency settings/buffer sizes
- bad syncing mode (Sonar set to "Full Midi Chase")

Bad synching mode would sound reasonable. First of all, try recording a
voice or something that is easy enough to tell if it is distorting, rather
than a guitar amp.

Secondly, try recording from the S-PDIF output on a CD player. If you can
do that properly, you should be okay to record from your A/D box. If you
cannot, the problem is in your soundcard setup or software configuration.

I have prepared yet another mp3 using a clean guitar,
played by someone else. It's about 300KB and lasts only 7 seconds.
I don't want to waste your time and I appreciate your help very much.
Believe me, in this sample, it's absolutely obvious.
http://www.lieber-media.de/mathias/s...386_noise2.mp3

I'm on a shell service. I can't listen to mp3s or look at graphics.
But I'd bet that fiddling with your clock configuration will help a lot.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article writes:

I have prepared yet another mp3 using a clean guitar,
played by someone else. It's about 300KB and lasts only 7 seconds.
I don't want to waste your time and I appreciate your help very much.
Believe me, in this sample, it's absolutely obvious.
http://www.lieber-media.de/mathias/s...386_noise2.mp3

String buzz? Sounds fine here.

But the real problem is:
That problem occurs only in the digital domain.
I tried the analog output and there, the crispy noise doesn't
exist. Even with a somewhat hotter signal.

I guess I don't understand what you're listening to. What do you mean
that it only occurs in the digital domain? What's digital, and what's
not digital in your setup? What are you listening to when you hear the
noise versus what you're listening to when it doesn't exist? (the
analog output)



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Nudge wrote:

But the real problem is:
That problem occurs only in the digital domain.
I tried the analog output and there, the crispy noise doesn't
exist. Even with a somewhat hotter signal.

I am confused. How do you listen to something _in the digital domain_?
Do you have DAC's built into your head? I have to listen in the analog
domain because I don't have digital ears.

So please articulate more clearly the actual circumstances and attendant
signal routing for when you do hear it and for when you do not hear it.

--
ha

hank alrich wrote:
Nudge wrote:

I am confused. How do you listen to something _in the digital domain_?
Do you have DAC's built into your head? I have to listen in the analog
domain because I don't have digital ears.

So please articulate more clearly the actual circumstances and attendant
signal routing for when you do hear it and for when you do not hear it.


My dbx 386 mic pre has S/PDIF out as well as analog out.
I can take the analog output and go into my A/D card
(Terratec EWS 88MT). This way the problem doesn't occur.

But if I connect the S/PDIF output of the mic pre
with the S/PDIF in of the A/D card, I hear that noise.

Of course, I listen to a analog signal that goes through
the EWS88MT D/A again into my mixer and headphones. ;-)

Kind Regards
Nudge

--
Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
http://studio.lieber-media.de

Mike Rivers wrote:

In article writes:

I would like you to listen to it:

I don't normally do this, but since it was a fairly short file I took
a listen. It sounds like a pretty consistently distorted guitar to me
and I can't tell any diference in the sound around 14-15 seconds.
Either something is getting lost in the translation or I'm just not
sensitive to the subtlties of horribly distorted guitar.

Try the same thing with a clean guitar sound.

I had a listen too.

If there's anything subtle I'm sure conversion to mp3 has masked it. I
didn't hear anything odd.

Try a wav file next time ?


Graham

Nudge wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article znr1102950485k@trad, Mike Rivers wrote:

In article writes:


I would like you to listen to it:

I don't normally do this, but since it was a fairly short file I took
a listen. It sounds like a pretty consistently distorted guitar to me
and I can't tell any diference in the sound around 14-15 seconds.
Either something is getting lost in the translation or I'm just not
sensitive to the subtlties of horribly distorted guitar.

Try the same thing with a clean guitar sound.


OR, move the microphone out to the edge of the speaker where it won't get
as bright a sound from the amp.
--scott


About the mic sound:
It was the first time I tried the miking method as described on the
shure website: dead center, 4" away from the grill. That should give
an "well-balanced, natural" tone. Indeed, it's rather bright.
http://www.shurenotes.com/issue6/article.asp?flash=true

About the noise:
I took another track with the mic more on the edge: it's more obvious.
But the real problem is:
That problem occurs only in the digital domain.
I tried the analog output and there, the crispy noise doesn't
exist. Even with a somewhat hotter signal.
That's why I thought it was jitter. It isn't, as I learned.
I have some options left:
- dropouts caused by a bad RCA cable
- dropouts caused by bad latency settings/buffer sizes
- bad syncing mode (Sonar set to "Full Midi Chase")

I have prepared yet another mp3 using a clean guitar,
played by someone else. It's about 300KB and lasts only 7 seconds.
I don't want to waste your time and I appreciate your help very much.
Believe me, in this sample, it's absolutely obvious.
http://www.lieber-media.de/mathias/s...386_noise2.mp3

I'm sorry for any inconvinience.
PLEASE HELP ME! ;-)

Ok, I hear some low level 'granularity' / buzziness but only on the right
channel. It may well be the **** onboard audio on this PC or my headphones are
shot. If I have time I'll try it on another PC.


Graham

In article writes:

My dbx 386 mic pre has S/PDIF out as well as analog out.
I can take the analog output and go into my A/D card
(Terratec EWS 88MT). This way the problem doesn't occur.

But if I connect the S/PDIF output of the mic pre
with the S/PDIF in of the A/D card, I hear that noise.

So you're always monitoring the analog output of the Terratec card,
sometimes fed from its analog input, sometimes fed from the digital
input. But the examples you've been posting have all been recorded
through the same path, so it's not surprising that they sound OK
(since they sound OK under some conditions at your studio). If you
wanted to illustrate what happens when you monitor the digital output
of your preamp through the D/A converter in your sound card, you'd
have to re-record the analog output of your sound card.

Given the situation, I'd say you have a clocking problem. Check the
Terratec driver control panel and, when you're using the digital
input, make sure it's getting its word clock from the digital input,
and not the internal clock. I'll bet that's your problem.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1103027291k@trad...

In article writes:

My dbx 386 mic pre has S/PDIF out as well as analog out.
I can take the analog output and go into my A/D card
(Terratec EWS 88MT). This way the problem doesn't occur.

But if I connect the S/PDIF output of the mic pre
with the S/PDIF in of the A/D card, I hear that noise.

So you're always monitoring the analog output of the Terratec card,
sometimes fed from its analog input, sometimes fed from the digital
input. But the examples you've been posting have all been recorded
through the same path, so it's not surprising that they sound OK
(since they sound OK under some conditions at your studio). If you
wanted to illustrate what happens when you monitor the digital output
of your preamp through the D/A converter in your sound card, you'd
have to re-record the analog output of your sound card.

Given the situation, I'd say you have a clocking problem. Check the
Terratec driver control panel and, when you're using the digital
input, make sure it's getting its word clock from the digital input,
and not the internal clock. I'll bet that's your problem.

Or the A/D on the 386 just sounds bad.

I missed the beginning of this thread, so I don't know what the specific
problem is supposed to be but that clip does sound shrill (aside from the
guitar being out of tune) in a way that reminds me of a blackface ADAT.

-jw

Nudge wrote:

My dbx 386 mic pre has S/PDIF out as well as analog out.
I can take the analog output and go into my A/D card
(Terratec EWS 88MT). This way the problem doesn't occur.

But if I connect the S/PDIF output of the mic pre
with the S/PDIF in of the A/D card, I hear that noise.

That could well be a clocking issue. Re-examine how you've set the
devices when going the digital route.

Of course, I listen to a analog signal that goes through
the EWS88MT D/A again into my mixer and headphones. ;-)

Good. g

--
ha

Mike Rivers wrote:
In article writes:


My dbx 386 mic pre has S/PDIF out as well as analog out.
I can take the analog output and go into my A/D card
(Terratec EWS 88MT). This way the problem doesn't occur.

But if I connect the S/PDIF output of the mic pre
with the S/PDIF in of the A/D card, I hear that noise.

Given the situation, I'd say you have a clocking problem. Check the
Terratec driver control panel and, when you're using the digital
input, make sure it's getting its word clock from the digital input,
and not the internal clock. I'll bet that's your problem.

Thank everybody for the hints.
I will check the clocking next.

Kind Regards
Nudge

--
Nudge // PCS Records Studio Leipzig
http://studio.lieber-media.de